Nyx has been ignored for too long by both the devs and the community

[TangyBlueBerry]

Her mind control has next to no benefits other than adding a decoy. Even with the augment, enemy HP scaling far out values their damage and a basic Nyx build has no room for strength.

 

Her 2 has no use at all without the augment. This isn't a case where the augment changes how you use the ability, no this is a case where the ability is useless without it.

 

Her 3 is her only power worth using, but you gave Loki's 4 an augment that does the same thing but it also does what her passive does but better.

 

And her 4 is another case where the power has no use without the augment, worse off it was nerfed because DE wanted to prevent bubble damage stacking between 2 Nyx's, and yet things like Equinox's Main can stack with other Mains for constant damage. It's back watered logic like this that shows the dev team has ignored Nyx for ages.

 

Her passive is also an issue because it can be counter productive to her other abilities since Mind Control targets will deal less damage, Absorb will absorb less damage, and it's an annoying RNG passive which IMO no passive should be RNG based. 

[theraot]

Sure, DE should have a look at Nyx. And eventually every other warframe too.

Don't throw shade at other warframe.

[BiancaRoughfin]

21 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

Her mind control has next to no benefits other than adding a decoy. Even with the augment, enemy HP scaling far out values their damage and a basic Nyx build has no room for strength.

Try grabbing a Bombard or Napalm in Sorties and see the damage it does to see if the skill isnt worth it, specially with the Augment, same goes for Ancient Healers who your team can benefit from his heals and buffs.

22 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

Her 3 is her only power worth using, but you gave Loki's 4 an augment that does the same thing but it also does what her passive does but better.

Radiation proc from the Augmented Radial Disarm only lasts 6 seconds no matter how much Power Duration you have. Nyx's Chaos can last much longer and with the Augment it can keep a large area affected by it.

27 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

And her 4 is another case where the power has no use without the augment, worse off it was nerfed because DE wanted to prevent bubble damage stacking between 2 Nyx's, and yet things like Equinox's Main can stack with other Mains for constant damage.

Main and Absorb are both two completely different mechanics, one applies a constant DoT to an area and stacks damage based on the damage delth, the other absorbs and amplifies the damage absorbed and can be charged much faster before released. The augment only reduces the Skill's range and allows the player to move with it active. Only change i think needs to be made is changing the Element from her 4th skill from Magnetic to something else like Blast.

[TangyBlueBerry]

Just now, BiancaRoughfin said:

Try grabbing a Bombard or Napalm

The damage any of these could do vs that of a player is minuscule. Especially if her passive procs and the enemy loses their weapon.

 

1 minute ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Radiation proc from the Augmented Radial Disarm

That's good enough of CC to clear out the trouble some enemies, remember this comes with guaranteed disarming so the enemies will clump up nicely with each other. The guaranteed clumping of enemies during those 6 seconds is far more helpful than longer rad proc. Especially Loki can easily press 4 again for another wave of disarming and rad proc.

 

3 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Main and Absorb are both two completely different mechanics

That at the end of the day do the same thing. Stack damage then deal that damage in an AoE. You can dance around their differences all day, but without the augment, Absorb is just a worse Main.

 

4 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

the other absorbs and amplifies

Except Absorb *doesn't* amply anything. Rather it turns any damage into magnetic damage, which is arguably one of the worst damage types.

[Cryptix123]

5 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

The damage any of these could do vs that of a player is minuscule. Especially if her passive procs and the enemy loses their weapon.

 

 

5 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

vs that of a player

And that's where I know you're talking crap because there's no point in using any CC ability if your weapon is strong enough.

[TangyBlueBerry]

2 minutes ago, Cryptix123 said:

 

And that's where I know you're talking crap because there's no point in using any CC ability if your weapon is strong enough.

Mind Control is mediocre CC and mediocre damage. Can you make an attempt to make an argument or is talking crap all your going to do?

[Cryptix123]

1 minute ago, KingMe42 said:

Mind Control is mediocre CC and mediocre damage. Can you make an attempt to make an argument or is talking crap all your going to do?

a) Nyx doesn't do damage...

b) You mention this yourself, Mind Control makes a decoy and enemy health scaling is far more effective than attempting to beat the players in damage.

c) One point you neglect to mention with absorb is Maim doesn't make you invincible.

 

But of course you're going to ignore me because you want all abilities to deal massive damage for some reason. And before you ask, I do indeed mean massive damage because you want unmodded weapons used by enemies to outdeal damage dealt by the players with a 265% damage buff on their weapons at the very least;

[NezuHimeSama]

Try controlling some useful targets. Bombards can knock enemies down, ancient healers provide very welcome damage reduction(went duos for 2.5hr t4 survival with Nyx and Ember, using only her mind control and chaos, grabbing corrupted ancients for DR, back before focus was even a thing, and we quit because it was boring, not because we weren't still winning) chaos is great CC if you aren't looking for stunlock and can easily mitigate an entire room of enemies for an extended period, absorb is fantastic defensive ability and with assimilate, Nyx is nearly indestructible supertank...

Oh and let's not forget Mind Freak. If you want your mind control target to deal damage, use Mind Freak with a high str build and pick your targets. They can pump out some pretty solid numbers. Plus, Chaos also redirects damage.

 

I can understand wanting Nyx to get some updates to some of her abilities(well, her 2 anyway) but honestly, if anything, she needs a nerf. Nyx is easily one of the most effective frames in the game.

Edited March 8, 2018 by NezuHimeSama

[InDueTime-EN-]

It's easy to say what's wrong, but hard to come up with a good solution. 

If you have a problem with something, maybe you should try thinking of a solution. And not just any solution that you can think of. it should be a solution that keeps the idea of the warframe, would not be major changes, and something that the current people who use nyx would not hate. 

 

So comments : let's start with this : 

1 hour ago, KingMe42 said:

Her mind control has next to no benefits other than adding a decoy

 

24 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

The damage any of these could do vs that of a player is minuscule.

 

15 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

Mind Control is mediocre CC and mediocre damage.

Nyx's abilities are meant for control not damage. Heavies and Ancients would be great damage sponges that can distract your enemies. Think about loki's Decoy, but it scales.

A good addition to this would be to make the MC unit draw agro like Atlas' augmented Rumblers and Loki's Decoy. This way, it can fulfill it's purpose better. 

Now her third ability :

24 minutes ago, KingMe42 said:

remember this comes with guaranteed disarming

This is the base ability of Loki's 4th ability, saying that this ability is better because it guarantees a disarm is like saying that Ash's Bladestorm is better than Slash and Dash because you can choose as many targets as you want. 

This ability is fine as it is. 

 

Absorb : 
I understand that this doesn't really fit her abilities well because all of his other abilities make enemies kill each other and not attack nyx but this argument :

1 hour ago, KingMe42 said:

DE wanted to prevent bubble damage stacking between 2 Nyx's

Is wrong. Have you tried stacking 2 snow globes? or Gara's forth? they block things separately. So it makes sense that this one does too. 

 

A suggestion for improvement would be to add damage taken by controlled units to the explosion. Or maybe add a mini absorb on all controlled enemies that end when Absorb is deactivated or when the mind control ends. 

The main issues I have with Nyx is that 3 of her abilities are almost the same thing and that they affect her fourth ability negatively. 

[TangyBlueBerry]

10 minutes ago, Cryptix123 said:

But of course you're going to ignore me because you want all abilities to deal massive damage for some reason. And before you ask, I do indeed mean massive damage because you want unmodded weapons used by enemies to outdeal damage dealt by the players with a 265% damage buff on their weapons at the very least;

Nyx doesn't do damage, and neither does the AI. The Decoy aspect is the *only* good part of the ability, but it has little to no further use. I would like it if it buffed Nyx and allies depending on enemy controlled. Ancient healers grant her and allies a great DR passive (with like 5-8 meter range) that would be great if this was a built in aspect of the ability. But of course thinking on how to better a mediocre ability is too hard.

 

I don't want her abilities to deal massive damage, I want them to be useful. Naturally of course misunderstanding is easier than putting thought into how to better what is a lack luster frame. 

4 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

This is the base ability of Loki's 4th ability, saying that this ability is better because it guarantees a disarm is like saying that Ash's Bladestorm is better than Slash and Dash because you can choose as many targets as you want. 

Chaos is fine for the most part, but you can't argue that Loki's disarm doesn't outshine it with the proper Loki build. Chaos would be her only ability that doesn't need changes as long as the rest does.

 

6 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

Is wrong. Have you tried stacking 2 snow globes? or Gara's forth? they block things separately.

That isn't the stacking I am talking about. Before you could have 2 Nyx's and the rest of the team deal damage to her bubbles. 1 would reach a high damage Absorb and then explode, transferring all that damage to the Nyx next to them. Essentially you could have 2 Nyx's constantly chaining Absorb back and forth with little to no damage fall off. Shortly after this change, Equinox released, who to this day can literally do the same thing.

[xXHobbitXx]

only issue with nyx seems to be you dont like her as is, i use her often and have no complaints about any of her abilitys, i would suggest you havent used her right to begin with

this is yet another example of low MR player with barely any use of the frame they are complaining about wanting DE to do something so they feel better, nothing else, players like you should concentrate on other things(playing) rather then complaining

Edited March 8, 2018 by xXHobbitXx

[NinjaZeku]

FWIW, my thoughts on / random ideas for Nyx from previous topics:

Quote

Mind Control - make it permanent, no duration, hold button to release. (Maybe allow multiple MC targets, even.)
MC'd enemies that have stored up lethal damage count as dead for Defense / Exterminate / whatnot and drop their loot.
Ensure that truly all enemy-spawned units will be allies, and permanently.

Psychic Bolts - enemies affected (for X duration) find themselves unable to attack Nyx and her allies,
even stray bullets and AoE stuff (aimed at other enemies while under Chaos) won't affect your Squad.

Chaos - pretty much fine as-is, add synergy with Psychic Bolts in that PB'd enemies get a damage boost against Chaos'd ones.
Remove the shrinkage from the Augment. (Actually, did I imagine it or wasn't that supposed
to be changed to expand instead? Wiki says it still shrinks, so dunno.)

Absorb - remove the additional Energy drain for every 1k damage (e.g. Maim / Mallet doesn't have that)
as well as the Range penalty from the Augment, the snail movement is limitation enough.

Passive - removing it entirely would be better than what we have now
as I actually kind of want Chaos'd enemies to shoot each other (and my Absorb bubble),
plus e.g. doing a Chaos stun -> Mind Control combo only to end up MC-ing a disarmed Bombard ... yeah thanks.
So, dunno what to replace it with, maybe ...

- lowering enemy accuracy / giving Nyx & allies increased evasion within Affinity Range
(could be explained by both her telekinetic as well as telepathic powers)

- enemies within Affinity Range that are about to attack Nyx / allies
have a small chance to get Chaos'd (including the stun even if they're already Chaos'd)

- something much better :P

[KIDdAe]

Biggest issue I have with playing with Nyx right now is that it's boring :( !

 

I kinda like her first ability. For me it's not about finding a target that will do damage, but help me ton control the battlefield (Fire Eximus) or Buff my allies (Bubbles, Healers, ...). It's just a first ability, it's not ment to be too strong, I find it better than most frame's first abilities.

Her 3 is her best abilities, but it's just boring. Most of her gameplay is just about refreshing this control spell. I would love to see something close to real Chaos, like having real decoys moving instead of decoys attached to each ennemies.

Her 4 is pretty bad compared to others similar 4. Just take a look at Harrow. The man can make invulnerable all teammates, continue to move and attack while invulnerable, and will give a huge buff. Nyx just stay where she is, hoping that ennemies will hit her and then will maybe, do some damages.

I think that it'll be a good thing if her ult would actually attract ennemy fire. This would be on par with the control frame she is. 

 

[Hixlysss]

I want to like nyx, I really do. How ever I have issues with her kit. Power 1 and 3 are basically the same thing, except one works on multiple enemies, and even then it's just some CC, not really an effective way of killing enemies. Power 2 is...meh, has a chance to confuse and/or disarm them due to her passive and status chance, but the damage it does is just...pathetic, it's another weak CC power of hers, so she has 3 powers that can do sorta the same thing. Then her ultimate, which is actually kinda cool in concept, except...it's range is pathetic.

Absorb has a mere 10m range at base. On top of that without the augment she is completely immobile once it's cast, allowing ranged enemies to simply...move out of the way, but it works fantastic against infested. So let's move on how to correct these issues, shall we?

First, her power 1...should not be her power one honestly, mind control is something of a staple of her kit, it's kinda what she is known for so we can't really remove it, but it needs to be beefed up, i'm thinking swap it with power 2. So mind control is now her power 2, but what else to do? Well the current issue is, from my experience, Mind Controlled enemies are...worthless for killing, and not that great at pulling aggro, or at least not any better than using Chaos. And so we do a few things, first off is to take the mind control augment and make that a permanent feature of the power, you know the one that adds 500% more damage? What happened to augments not being direct upgrades anyway...but moving on. So give mind control a power strength modifier, having it increase mind controlled targets damage by, starting at, 5x. Secondly, let's have mind controlled targets pull way more aggro, have it taunt enemies like the Djinn can do.Also, perhaps make it a toggle power rather than pure duration?
Ah and for her augment, considering we are planning on taking the existing one and combing it into the power, how about making mind control auto switch to a new target should your current target get killed by his team mates? Alternatively simply increasing the number of mind controlled targets from 1 to 3?

Now let's move on to power 2, psychic bolts, which I already proposed should be changed to power 1, as it kinda just...fits there along with the other power 1s, right? So Psychic bolts is basically a pocket chaos, due to the radiation doing *confusion* status which is...well again, same thing as chaos(Hopefully damage 2.5 changes this), and it has an augment that makes it be an even better pocket chaos...hurrah. So right out the gate it needs a damage boost, and it could also use the treatment most other power 1s have gotten, the whole "Hold to charge" feature, increasing the damage + number of bolts, though the latter could also be increased via power strength. Moving on, remove the radiation damage, simply because it has what..50% base chance to trigger the status effect and it's only 15 damage? It's trying to hard to be pocket chaos...let's make it unique. So instead of it doing radiation damage and confusing enemies, let's have it do a "Psychic Bleed", have the bolts, upon hitting an enemy, stun them(Have em grab their head and squirm around), and once the effect ends they get slammed with let's say a cold + slash effect, because their brains are bleeding from a psychic blast. So it's CC with a bit of damage but at least it's not a direct copy of chaos.
And for the augment...honestly considering the power was already a pocket chaos and the augment just...augmented that, I think this augment can stay as it is, making you need to use a mod slot to have a pocket chaos.

Let's move on to Chaos then, one of her great powers. AoE CC but...just not quite that effective. It's a fairly great power in it's own right, but the issue still remains that the affected enemies can, and will, still notice and shoot you. So a simple change would be to...make them not. Have chaos render the warframes invisible to the grineer, that also gives the players access to the wonderful "Stealth finisher" damage boost, hurrah! And honestly this is...well it's one of her better powers, not much else I can think of without completely redesigning it. But the changes to Mind control, and these tweaks to chaos, make them different enough at this point that further changes aren't really needed.
Also, the augment is decent, i'd probably tweak it to make it closer to how Resonating Quake functions, having you simply slap down chaos and have it slowly pulse out.

And finally, Absorb. My longest standing issue with absorb was it's range, but let's do more than just give it a range buff. First, let's have it's range be it's pull range, and then buff it to 15-20m, make it on par with other warframe ults. So now every shot from an enemy within 15 some odd meters of absorb has it's shots pulled directly into it, kinda like mags magnetize. If possible, have absorb's damage be what ever the primary damage type is used on it, like how Zephyr's tonadoes work but only if enemies shoot you, as I find magnetic damage(The current damage type of absorb) to be rather...lackluster. And finally...i've always viewed Absorb as it collecting bullets and flinging them back at enemies, rather than it just being a big kenetic energy sponge, and so i'd like it to reflect the whole "fling bullets back" idea, let's mix in Ash's ult with this, by allowing Nyx to look at and target specific enemies, and when Absorb goes off...it hits those enemies with the damage, divided amongst them of course. I mean if i'm going to be forced to sit there, motionless, i'm going to want to be able to do something so let's take this mildly interesting mechanic from another frame, and use it on Nyx, and IMO it would be rather fitting, no? 

I think i'll make my own thread with this in it, but here you go.

[minidelight]

7 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Try controlling some useful targets. Bombards can knock enemies down, ancient healers provide very welcome damage reduction(went duos for 2.5hr t4 survival with Nyx and Ember, using only her mind control and chaos, grabbing corrupted ancients for DR, back before focus was even a thing, and we quit because it was boring, not because we weren't still winning) chaos is great CC if you aren't looking for stunlock and can easily mitigate an entire room of enemies for an extended period, absorb is fantastic defensive ability and with assimilate, Nyx is nearly indestructible supertank...

this guy knows what he's talking about. Nyx is control/cc frame and can tank for days with the augment.

For those that want to change and rework a already fantastic frame, maybe nyx isnt for you....

The only power that maybe could get a rework his her 2.

[TKDancer]

9 hours ago, Cryptix123 said:

a) Nyx doesn't do damage...

b) You mention this yourself, Mind Control makes a decoy and enemy health scaling is far more effective than attempting to beat the players in damage.

c) One point you neglect to mention with absorb is Maim doesn't make you invincible.

a) thats not part of her design tho, thats cause of absorb not multiplying dmg it absorbs, her 4 is literally a self centered anti matter drop but even without a dmg cap its in most occasions weaker than AMD due to not having a multiplier for the explosion(also it has awful base range and is self centered) plus AMD is considerably more convenient since u can charge it urself and doesnt have the extra cost i mention below(and radiation is a better dmg type than magnetic)

 

 

b) chaos makes all enemies into decoys,  sure they'll try to attack u if u get close unlike mind control, but its still a considerably superior skill, mind controlled enemies are just awful, even with mind freak

 

c) fair, but it actually kills at least, and hits enemies considerably farther away compared to absorb

Edited March 8, 2018 by TKDancer

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, minidelight said:

Nyx is control/cc frame and can tank for days with the augment.

she actually cant "tank for days" with assimilate, on top of the drain/sec, abosrb drains an extra 8 energy at base for every 1000 dmg u absorb, and at higher levels 1000 dmg is pretty common and likely to happen every second

 

also theres other CC frames that can actually tank considerably better than her and arent slowed to a crawl(and dont require an augment to move at all)

Edited March 8, 2018 by TKDancer

[sixmille]

Because Nyx is still fine in most of the content? I've never like the 4 but it's functional, and the 1 and 3 are just fine. Problems only arise eventually when the devs refuse to nerf what needs to be nerfed and "buff everything else" instead, which is completely dumb, because they're caught in an unending cycle of buffs that sees no end. Maybe Nyx will be so power creeped out in a few years that it needs a "rework" but right now it's fine.

[TKDancer]

Just now, sixmille said:

Because Nyx is still fine in most of the content?

most frames are "fine" in most of the content cause guns are good through the entire game

[sixmille]

à l’instant, TKDancer a dit :

most frames are "fine" in most of the content cause guns are good through the entire game

When I say "fine" I mean it still has the best CC in the entire game. No it doesn't locks room but duration is extremely long and you can build it for efficiency and range with no downside. Maybe rhino can compete with Nyx's range but it comes at a much higher energy cost and the duration is laughable.

[NezuHimeSama]

Energy drain is affected by efficiency, and you can tank pretty effectively all the way through sortie 3. Combine that with the ability to commandeer support units and reduce incoming fire with chaos, and Nyx is pretty OP AF.

 

Absorb has always been a defensive, not offensive move. It does do some damage, though, and in my experience, generally kills nearby smallfry. Scales with enemy levels, too.

[TKDancer]

11 minutes ago, sixmille said:

I mean it still has the best CC in the entire game

thats a pretty bold statement considering limbo exists

 

edit: also, avalanche, irradiating disarm, rest, stomp...

 

11 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Energy drain is affected by efficiency, and you can tank pretty effectively all the way through sortie 3. Combine that with the ability to commandeer support units and reduce incoming fire with chaos, and Nyx is pretty OP AF.

 

Absorb has always been a defensive

even at maxed efficiency the energy drain caused by incoming dmg is very high and lack of mobility, specially without the augment, means relying entirely on chaos to reduce the amount of dmg u absorb, not only that but think about how we're trying to not absorb dmg with the skill named absorb :^/

 

absorb is literally about taking dmg and dealing it back, seems like a counter move instead of a defensive one, specially since without the augment u cant even move and at best u do a little knockdown due to how the scaling of our enemy's survivability far outweighs the scaling on their dmg output

Edited March 8, 2018 by TKDancer

[NezuHimeSama]

That sounds like your own interpretation is fueling your entire judgement of the move.

Also, it really doesn't drain that fast, even in high level missions. Hell, even self damage weapons don't drain it that fast. Nyx is a great melee explosives tank.

[TKDancer]

4 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

That sounds like your own interpretation is fueling your entire judgement of the move.

Also, it really doesn't drain that fast

right back at ya bub

 

and for smth that doesnt deal dmg to compensate and slows me to a crawl, yes it does

Edited March 8, 2018 by TKDancer

[NezuHimeSama]

my interpretation of the move is "how it works in game".