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Nyx has been ignored for too long by both the devs and the community


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1 minute ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I guess they must have removed it, which is understandable, since it was pretty OP.

It used to include the globe HP and possibly a multiplier?

uhm no, nothing on the pach history for frost suggests that ever being a thing

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Frost#Patch History

 

let me know if you find something, cause if you do that means my eyesight is worse than i thought

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11 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

my interpretation of the move is "how it works in game".

You realize your interpretation still doesn't take into account that the base ability sucks, and the only use for the augment is the invulnerability, not the damage return right?

"If you ignore half of the ability and use an augment, it's a decent ability" basically sums up your points. 

 

What If I don't want to use the augment? What if I don't want to constantly be slow? What if I want a different playstyle for Nyx? Part of Nyx's problem is she doesn't have any alternating playstyles. Max out range, max out efficiency, a little duration, no strength, use the 4 augment, press 3 every 25-ish seconds. Boom, that's Nyx's entire playstyle for everyone in a nutshell. 

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1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the reason why absorb has CC in it is because it can kill trash and disable threatning targets.

It can't kill any armored trash past level 40 because of pitiful damage fall off. Unless the enemies are right on her, the damage fall off of absorb is massive. The knock down will be decent, but why bother using it for a knockdown when the casting time is massive? Enemies can get back up and shoot Nyx nearly as fat as Nyx can shoot them because of the cast time. Why even have an absorbing mechanic in the first place? And we both know kock down isn't the most reliable CC toll since certain heavies can do attacks that make them immune to kockdowns during its animation.

To the people that think Nyx is ok. You realize she hasn't been touched at all in over 2 years since the Absorb ally damage change on her augment. It wasn't even a change to her base frame, but to her augment. Her 2 has been a terrible power for 5 years and remains terrible to this day. Then of course there is Mind Control, the best decoy ability in the game......IF it wasn't already on a frame that literally makes every enemy in the entire room a decoy.

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1 hour ago, KingMe42 said:

It can't kill any armored trash past level 40 because of pitiful damage fall off. Unless the enemies are right on her, the damage fall off of absorb is massive. The knock down will be decent, but why bother using it for a knockdown when the casting time is massive? Enemies can get back up and shoot Nyx nearly as fat as Nyx can shoot them because of the cast time. Why even have an absorbing mechanic in the first place? And we both know kock down isn't the most reliable CC toll since certain heavies can do attacks that make them immune to kockdowns during its animation.

To the people that think Nyx is ok. You realize she hasn't been touched at all in over 2 years since the Absorb ally damage change on her augment. It wasn't even a change to her base frame, but to her augment. Her 2 has been a terrible power for 5 years and remains terrible to this day. Then of course there is Mind Control, the best decoy ability in the game......IF it wasn't already on a frame that literally makes every enemy in the entire room a decoy.

i cant believe i have to repeat myself so often. absorb is a DEFENSIVE skill. even when it stops killing trash it will CC them. you can dispatch with ANY weapon you've brought with you. any enemy that has skills that make them "poise" through CC applies to every frame that can CC (its pointless to try and single out nyx for that) nyx has gotten some updates. just because she hasn't had a recent review doesn't mean shes lacking. nova hasn't had a recent review either because shes fine. when DE decides nyx needs another review they will do one. i have no problems playing or understanding nyx, no problem taking nyx into 100+ content (which if there was any kind of significant problem i woudlnt be able to). shes a support frame.

problems with mind control is a general AI problem. all of her powers are based of controlling what enemies do. and with this im out. im not gonna sit here and debate with people looking for problems where they don"t exist. want damage dealing frame play one, want a support frame play one, want a defense frame play one, want a healing frame play one because we have 34 frames and people forget this fact. there is a frame for everyone. trying to make one frame into what its not is absurd. having issues playing nyx? use the wiki and find guides on what mods benefit her.

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2 hours ago, KingMe42 said:

You realize your interpretation still doesn't take into account that the base ability sucks, and the only use for the augment is the invulnerability, not the damage return right?

"If you ignore half of the ability and use an augment, it's a decent ability" basically sums up your points. 

 

What If I don't want to use the augment? What if I don't want to constantly be slow? What if I want a different playstyle for Nyx? Part of Nyx's problem is she doesn't have any alternating playstyles. Max out range, max out efficiency, a little duration, no strength, use the 4 augment, press 3 every 25-ish seconds. Boom, that's Nyx's entire playstyle for everyone in a nutshell. 

The base ability is perfectly fine. It knocks down enemies in a large radius(easy to mod for) and provides you with an escape from damage for nyx and nearby allies/objectives. Perfectly suits her kit, perfectly useful, perfectly fine move. Not everything needs to be a DPS smasher 4frame.

Even without the aug, it's a good AOE defensive move.

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1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

The base ability is perfectly fine. It knocks down enemies in a large radius

thats a bold lie

 

absorb has an incredibly short range for just knockdown, specially compared to other abilities that would prove wide range CC like rhino stomp which has 25m base range at rank 3, absorb has a 10m base range at rank 3, gee its almost like it wasnt meant just for defense/CC and rather as a counter move HMMM

 

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

and provides you with an escape from damage for nyx and nearby allies/objectives.

u escape immediate dmg, then what? base ability has no movement at all, the explosion isnt that large and it has a relatively large recovery that leaves u wide open, maybe u knock down a few enemies that were closer, but the ones farther away or maybe one that is immune to knockdown will destroy u as you finish the animation for absorbs detonation 

 

1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Perfectly suits her kit, perfectly useful, perfectly fine move.

 

yeah, no

Edited by TKDancer
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1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i cant believe i have to repeat myself so often. absorb is a DEFENSIVE skill. even when it stops killing trash it will CC them

the poopiest CC, a relatively short range knockdown, doesnt even send enemies flying... they just flop on the ground and immediately start getting up, the existence of rhino stomp on its own would make anyone look at this and see that it is indeed, not fine

 

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

 you can dispatch with ANY weapon you've brought with you

 

same can be said for any frame, weird how you guys are so against making nyx have 1 scaling dmg ability is so bad cause shed be "just another DPS frame" but u guys never seem to think about how gunplay is the thing that least varies among frames(with some exceptions)

 

also ya know, cant use guns while abosrb up unless u have the aug :^/

 

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

 nyx has gotten some updates.

its not hard to check her patch notes to see that the only updates shes been getting for a long time are conclave changes and minor bug fixes

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

just because she hasn't had a recent review doesn't mean shes lacking. nova hasn't had a recent review either because shes fine.

nova is fine, mostly, nyx isnt...

 

AMD is a much better version of absorb

 

wormhole is a great movement skill(tho it could use a reduced base cost)

 

and molecular prime is just amazing

 

nullstar being her weakest skill and even then it provides 5% DR per orb

 

MEANWHILE nyx has:

 

mind control which gives u 1(one) non hostile decoy

 

psych bolts which is just useless

 

chaos which makes everyone in range a possibly hostile decoy(mostly makes mind control redundant)

 

an ability that absorbs dmg but doesnt deal enough dmg back, has awful range, and besides the (low)dmg does a poopy knockdown

 

idk about but i see a big difference between the 2

 

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

when DE decides nyx needs another review they will do one. i have no problems playing or understanding nyx, no problem taking nyx into 100+ content (which if there was any kind of significant problem i woudlnt be able to). shes a support frame.

thats not how this works, DE isnt free to do as they please, they have priority lists and deadlines and so on, they most likely wont give her another look until the next time shes unvaulted as there is currently not a lot of interest in her, shes a pretty rare frame to see these days, with good reason

 

i can also take nezha into level 100+ content, doesnt mean he is fine, he remains speedy discount rhino, but guns still work

 

wukong still works as he is one of the hardest to kill frames, but he still has 2 VERY bad abilities

 

trinity is a support frame, nyx is a controller with a dmg reflection skill(and psychic bolts, whatever thats worth)

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

problems with mind control is a general AI problem. all of her powers are based of controlling what enemies do. and with this im out. im not gonna sit here and debate with people looking for problems where they don"t exist.

that is one problem yes, but the dmg output of enemies is vastly outpaced by their survivability as they are designed to kill frames who tend to have a few hundred HP whereas they start to have a few thousands by the end of the star chart(and this is without considering armored enemies) so even mind freak wont do much(at least not vs armored enemies)

no,  not ALL of her powers are not about controlling the enemy:

 

mind control and chaos are indeed her 2 controller abilities

 

psych bolts is just a poopy non scaling dmg ability à la fireball/freeze/etc, with a chance to proc radiation status(and her passive), meanwhile oberon's(a support frame) smite scales and has a 100% chance to proc radiation status

 

and absorb is clearly about aborbing dmg and dealing it back

 

and if u dont wanna discuss anymore thats cool, i also dont like to discuss with people who deny the existence of very glaring issues

Edited by TKDancer
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Gee, I didn't realize stomp created an invincible, long lasting bubble for people or objectives to hide in that draws enemy fire, and easily stuns anything within 25m when it runs out or you get bored of winning. And that instant activation that totally doesn't leave you a stationary target for everything to gank for a second.

If you want DPS, play mag or equinox, or even saryn. No need to make one of the most overpowered frames in the game do that too.

On the topic of nova, her moveset being shoehorned into duration >>>>> all could use a revisit. Especially Mprime's expansion speed is #*!%ing terrible and leaves her completely exposed when things get busy. That should definitely be looked at, either make it affected by casting speed, or make it a dual duration/range like Mag has on Polarize.

Also, mag's polarize dealing static damage to armor or maximum shields makes it completely useless late game, and duration is actually a negative on magnetize, as it's only good for handing out the grieframe. Yeesh does mag ever need a look.

And Mesa? Her entire moveset is completely stupid, from the unreliable shooting gallery that can actually interfere with damage absorption, to the completely out of place shattershield that would make more sense as an augment for Mag, to her mess of a 1 that only synergizes well with low high accuracy weapons, not the high fire rate pistols her frame is themed around. And Peacemakers is still boring and stupid auto-win.

And what about LOL hydroid? He needs an entire new kit.

Or Mirage's moveset being a total mess? Her 1 should probably be her 4, her 2 went from a novel way to proc headshot triggers for arcanes to a great way to run out of energy, her 3 is completely unreliable and at the mercy of the map, and her 4 was never reliable for anything but CC, which it's now only mediocre at. I mean, mirage is great, but that's because her 1 and 3 can rek S#&$ hard, not for any other thing she does, and her 3 is only useful when you happen to be in the right place at the right time, which is not always an option.

Or howabout trinity's one way or another moveset that's only good for 2 moves?

 

Nyx is perfectly fine. 3 of her 4 moves are useful, high tier moves in their own categories(directed decoy, wide area relief, small area damage nullification with an added bonus of knockdown)

Edited by NezuHimeSama
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8 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Gee, I didn't realize stomp created an invincible, long lasting bubble for people or objectives to hide in that draws enemy fire, and easily stuns anything within 25m when it runs out or you get bored of winning.

A. Rhino has his own means of surviving, and they dont involve losing all movement or being slowed to a crawl, also stasis'd enemies cant do dmg

 

B. dont need to protect objectives when theres nothing able to attack it over a 25m range(at base)

 

C. the moment enemies touch the ground it can be recast for full effect, plus being able to stop even bosses is purty neat

 

yeah rhino stomp is pretty superior to absorb from where im standing considering all it should be according to you is a way to avoid dmg(that removes/limits movement) and a short knockdown

 

you quite literally and honestly somehow believe that is a good ability, thats kinda impressive 

8 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

If you want DPS, play mag or equinox, or even saryn. No need to make one of the most overpowered frames in the game do that too.

again, if these changes came to pass, you could just not build her for dmg or just not play with the intent to use absorbs explosion for dmg

 

the fact that u honestly think nyx can be called one of the most overpowered frames in the game can only mean 2 things: you are being intentionally dishonest, or you are delusional

 

that frame with 2 awful abilities in mind control and psychic bolts, a meh passive that can be counter intuitive to her kit, 1 good CC skill in chaos, and a mediocre form of tanking that prevents all movement without its augment and does piss poor dmg despite being able to absorb thousands of incoming dmg and save it for a later explosion in absorb

 

and you are calling this "one of the most overpowered frames".. amazing

 

Edited by TKDancer
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So far i only found 1 good build for Nyx and thats the Chaos tank.

You go for an acceptable range, high duration and efficiency along with these augments:

200?cb=20171007145258200?cb=20171007135255

With this you have a sturdy tank with the ability to massively confuse large areas. Simple and efficient.

Nothing else works good enough to make it worth using.

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9 hours ago, TKDancer said:

....

and you are calling this "one of the most overpowered frames".. amazing

Nyx is the only frame able to point blank a launcher or Lenz nowadays. The absorb + Lenz thing is hilariously fun with no danger ... but it gets old and actually it's a strong gun not a strong frame. Just a good gun platform.

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Just now, RealPandemonium said:

You just described every frame that people like in this game.  If it lets them kill with no skill or effort, it's just great!

So basically everything except for maybe Harrow?

Skill is overrated please.

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12 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

 

Even without the aug, it's a good AOE defensive move.

Congrats on being the only person who understands what a defensive ability is suppose to do.

To everyone else: you're whining that a shield doesn't deal damage. Think about that. Seriously. Play a different frame.

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You know, some "simple" ideas that would make her more interactive, hopefully a lot more fun and WAY more unique:

1) Allow Nyx to at least cast Mind Control and Psychic Bolts while in Absorb (even un-augmented)

2) While Nyx is in Absorb-mode (including with the Assimilate-augment) -> If you have a target with Mind Control on it, holdcast Mind Control to take manual control of that target (i.e., you play as the Mind Controlled target)! With that you can, for example, play as a Grineer Shield Lancer, shieldbashing enemies with the melee button, or shooting with their gun with primary fire. Or as a Ancient Healer, slap enemies away (melee) or tentacle-arm-strike enemies (primary fire), or even grapplehook them in (secondary fire).

Now, as to make this a truly VIABLE style: Allow our weapon mods to interact with the manually controlled Mind Controlled target (so, your Primary mods would affect your Grineer Lancer's gun etc, and its weaponbash/Sheev (whatever attack is chosen as it melee option) would be affected by your melee mods). This would also make the Mind Freak-augment a FAR more powerful mod!

You could even go further and let Psychic Bolts (and Chaos?) be castable during this manual control, but now the ability(s) would emminate from the target (instead of coming out from Nyx). Recasting Mind Control or Absorb would simply end the manual Mind Control (along with also cancelling Absorb in the latter case).

 

What do you think? :smile:

 

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That's neat and all, but being able to play as an enemy isn't as simple an idea as you might think.

Also, if our mods affected the target, it would be pretty OP, since they already have scaling weapon base stats. If it replaced the scaling enemy stats, then you'd just wind up with generic weapons you can already use. On that note, it'd be nice if enemies didn't have broken AF scaling, and in stead scaled in a manner similar to a modded tenno, with similar limitations.

I don't see why you would need to be in absorb for the two to work, either. It'd just be a bit dumb to leave nyx hanging while you romp around as an elite lancer.

 

Though on the note of controlling targets, can we get working waypoints for AI that they actually use and move towards and can be told to attack from or patrol along?

Edited by NezuHimeSama
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5 hours ago, DiosGX said:

Congrats on being the only person who understands what a defensive ability is suppose to do.

To everyone else: you're whining that a shield doesn't deal damage. Think about that. Seriously. Play a different frame.

If it wasnt meant to deal dmg we wouldnt be absorbing it, not only the blasts short range and weak knockdown and long recvoery means that without assimilate you are just sitting there waiting to be killed if theres even 1 strong enemy sitting outside of ur blasts range.

 

Think about that. Seriously. Nyx isnt fine.

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34 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

If it wasnt meant to deal dmg we wouldnt be absorbing it, not only the blasts short range and weak knockdown and long recvoery means that without assimilate you are just sitting there waiting to be killed if theres even 1 strong enemy sitting outside of ur blasts range.

 

Think about that. Seriously. Nyx isnt fine.

We've already been over this, though; it's normal for defensive moves with some kind of depletion to absorb damage. Your entire argument has been flawed from the start.

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1 hour ago, NezuHimeSama said:

We've already been over this, though; it's normal for defensive moves with some kind of depletion to absorb damage. Your entire argument has been flawed from the start.

except they absorb it for a reason that isnt to do dmg(even tho iron shrapnel can do dmg):

 

iron skin and warding halo absorb dmg and transform it into more buffer HP

 

snow globe absorbs dmg to strength the barrier

 

if you are going to make comparisons to actual defensive skills pls notice the differences too instead of just the similarities

 

nyx doesnt transform that absorbed dmg into anything, as its meant to be dealt back,  that is the sole reason nyx actually absorbs dmg, your argument is the flawed one. please just stop.

Edited by TKDancer
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2 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

And it does just that. It doesn't need to be a DPS smasher 4frame to do that thing, and works just fine the way it is.

ITS LITERALLY ALL IT DOES, you absorb all incoming dmg to deal it back to attackers, except its so bad at it that its reduced to an awkward method of tanking IF u have the augment, as someone said in another thread, "If the ability isn't worth jack squat to begin with, it needs a rework."

 

unless u count a piss poor knockdown that is worse than the sonicor's as "CC" and use that as justification to say its fine as it is, as you've done for idk how many comments so far

 

you keep coming up with ridiculous comparisons and justifications its  absurd

Edited by TKDancer
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