Gender Confusion

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Operators with actual genders, seriously our operators are as femine or masculin as the carrier sentinel.

It could be possible that, in time, our Operators will actually age. At that point, gender typical development may be an option.

[Fallen_Echo]

31 minutes ago, TheBlueJelly said:

It's more that their bodies are like, 12-15 or so. Mentally they've been active for decades, maybe even centuries... but the bodies of the void demons had been held in the stasis of the Second Dream so long they even forgot who and what they are.

I am very much not opposed to having the operators actually grow up as the game progresses. Bonus points if it's done subtlety as you complete more and more post-Second Dream quests.

Thats not an excuse to look like genderless clones.

Just look around in a classroom of fifth graders, some of them developed breasts already while others have more muscle than your avarage 20 year old.

We dont need a humongous tits or absurd amount of muscle but the ability to make our characthers look like a male or felame or whatever we want.

[Eirshy]

15 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Thats not an excuse to look like genderless clones.

Just look around in a classroom of fifth graders, some of them developed breasts already while others have more muscle than your avarage 20 year old.

We dont need a humongous tits or absurd amount of muscle but the ability to make our characthers look like a male or felame or whatever we want.

You try being exposed to spacemagic void when you're like 5 and then get placed into near-perma cryo-sleep so you can play child soldier turned gun-toting space ninja in a desperate war against an adaptive-armored invasion of doom. Then we'll see how your body handles it.

 

Really tho, you're not exactly wrong. If I were to guess, there's actually only one body model, and this was done in part to make it easier to develop cosmetics.

Seeing as DE is big on actually fleshing out old systems right now, the operator customization system has been mostly the same since they were first introduced. Giving us a couple of operator body type options (even just 3 total- masculine, the current androgynous, female) could be a good "middle ground" assuming the game can't handle slider-based body definitions without serious overhaul.

Would even help with the common complaint that the operator needs an age slider. A more well-defined figure could actually function in lieu of that, as the operator could just be really short.

Edited March 9, 2018 by TheBlueJelly

[rapt0rman]

@TheBlueJelly

 On the topic of equinox, she was created from a poll to make a female frame, and the concept of anima/animus specifically refers to feminine/masculine rather than literal female/male.

...and I've seen more than enough people get upset from finding out that her masculine form is female, and I'm pretty sure DE understood that someone somewhere was going to be upset no matter what they do with the concept.

Basically I'd like to think that DE didn't actually worry about pandering, and just went with the theme that they felt fit.

[Eirshy]

31 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

@TheBlueJelly

 On the topic of equinox, she was created from a poll to make a female frame, and the concept of anima/animus specifically refers to feminine/masculine rather than literal female/male.

...and I've seen more than enough people get upset from finding out that her masculine form is female, and I'm pretty sure DE understood that someone somewhere was going to be upset no matter what they do with the concept.

Basically I'd like to think that DE didn't actually worry about pandering, and just went with the theme that they felt fit.

I was on hiatus when she came out, so I missed the polls and concept design parts. Always-female actually makes a bit more mundane sense from that perspective. My explanation was born from lacking a mundane reason, so I merely assumed the result and derived a reason that made sense.

The difference is the kind of upset people get. It's very low-impact, more of a disappointment than an active rage. Current Year politics encourages the latter if you introduce it. As for worrying about it, it was an after-the-fact worry, not an active one. The interpretation of events I gave is actually major props to DE, as it shows them doing what they want, then giving a little swerve at the last second to avoid the possible landmine they noticed.

Edited March 9, 2018 by TheBlueJelly

[Magneu]

37 minutes ago, TheBlueJelly said:

If I were to guess, there's actually only one body model, and this was done in part to make it easier to develop cosmetics.

IIRC, certain face combos/blends will actually change the operator body type to more male/more female. No clue which ones, but some operators are most definitely more feminine/masculine than others. It's not a massive change, but it does change it enough to remove most doubt.

[rapt0rman]

1 hour ago, TheBlueJelly said:

I was on hiatus when she came out, so I missed the polls and concept design parts. Always-female actually makes a bit more mundane sense from that perspective. My explanation was born from lacking a mundane reason, so I merely assumed the result and derived a reason that made sense.

The difference is the kind of upset people get. It's very low-impact, more of a disappointment than an active rage. Current Year politics encourages the latter if you introduce it. As for worrying about it, it was an after-the-fact worry, not an active one. The interpretation of events I gave is actually major props to DE, as it shows them doing what they want, then giving a little swerve at the last second to avoid the possible landmine it created.

I'd guess if they had gone with a male/female it probably would have been a more straightforward "yin-yang" (which incidentally was what actually won, not anima/animus), a completely androgynous middle form that splits into female/male. Which would have been even more outside of the realm of the concept of transgenderism.

Honestly, Jungian psychology (anima/animus) is more iffy and harder to accept or acknowledge for some people then the standard yin-yang concept.

I think if people were going to riot about it they'd have done so already reguardles, the subtle differences don't actually mean anything to them. They already still see a female frame splitting into something that resembles a male frame. It just didn't really amount to anything more then threads like this about operators piloting frames of a different gender.

Edited March 9, 2018 by rapt0rman

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

18 hours ago, midtarget said:

Amusingly, Nezha looks really different from the artistic rendition in the Chynese legends

Funny....Vauban doesn't exactly look like his portrait either. I guess they're allowed to take liberties in a sci-fi fantasy game...

[midtarget]

1 hour ago, Magneu said:

IIRC, certain face combos/blends will actually change the operator body type to more male/more female. No clue which ones, but some operators are most definitely more feminine/masculine than others. It's not a massive change, but it does change it enough to remove most doubt.

The top half are male faces, the bottom half are female, there isn't a large difference, bi make body is flatter and wider (straighter) females have more curves.

[LightningsVengance]

19 hours ago, (XB1)DrJackRuneX said:

As I understand

Have you The Second Dream, The War Within and The Sacrifice? (sacrifice coming soon^tm and it's suppose to  have Warframe lore, so they may very well have definite genders and we just don't know.)

[SurjaAmor]

I disagree with the negative response to this post, I think warframes having alt gender skins could be a cool addition. Maybe impractical, but it wouldn't be the first major addition solely for fashion frame. (Cough captura cough)

[GrandLibra]

Well no one has mentioned it so far, so I guess I will.

DE has tried the alt-gender warframes in the past, and by the past I mean before the game was even launched.
They ultimately decided against the idea, and the developed assets were turned into Nyx.

To quote the wiki:
"Apart from the helmet and gender, Nyx's overall design is almost identical to Excalibur. This was the result of a scrapped attempt to create alternative genders to the Warframes during the pre-alpha stages of the game." -Nyx's wiki page

While I personally think that having some gender bent frames would cool, if it's going to happen I doubt DE will do it themselves. It will likely need to be community pushed, showing overwhelming support to even be properly considered for implementation.

_{Gimme dat excal helmet for Nyx tho}

Edited March 9, 2018 by thestubydugong

[SurjaAmor]

2 minutes ago, thestubydugong said:

Well no one has mentioned it so far, so I guess I will.

DE has tried the alt-gender warframes in the past, and by the past I mean before the game was even launched.
They ultimately decided against the idea, and the developed assets were turned into Nyx.

To quote the wiki:
"Apart from the helmet and gender, Nyx's overall design is almost identical to Excalibur. This was the result of a scrapped attempt to create alternative genders to the Warframes during the pre-alpha stages of the game." -Nyx's wiki page

While I personally think that having some gender bent frames would cool, if it's going to happen I doubt DE will do it themselves. It will likely need to be community pushed, showing overwhelming support to even be properly considered for implementation.

_{Gimme dat excal helmet for Nyx tho}

This is news to me

[IgnisDraconis4316]

If you look at the concept lore behind Equinox and Nezha you will see why both look the way they do. Nezha specifically is based off an Asian trickster god that threw "circular boomarangs" and that many times took the shape (lol and attitude) of a young boy (there are so many versions of him but most follow this idea). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nezha As such he is not going to have traditional Adult Male features. Even my nephew before he hit puberty you could mistake him for a young girl with long hair. 

I have not found where they got the concept of Equinox but considering that there are many Asian influences in game and having many Asian friends and family members myself........ I can see Equinox as a pre-puberty Asian girl. My nieces are half Philipina and half white. They keep their hair short and when they wear a dress they look like a girl. When they are dressed for school they look like young boys. 

Puberty changes alot of those features....... Nezha and Equinox just never grew up LOL is all.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

23 hours ago, D20 said:

Actually, the canon truth is that Equinox is 100% female. Her day shape just look a bit too masculine.

that sad moment when so many players think its a male, but the artist themself said they were aiming for female.

[Guest]

If you look past Equinox's waist girdle thingies, you notice even in day form she retains the narrow, feminine waist and wider hips of a female (relatively anyway. Her proportion changes are mostly upper body and not that much. Her proportions are very much like Mirage except her chest). In a way, she is more of a heavily armored girl in day form, and night form is basically just a dress. There is little if no gender confusion if you look at the overall proportion, not the armor add ons.

The only irony is that her more armored day form is the one with the damage buff and the less armored night form is the one with the armor and shields buff XD.

Nezha, as everyone explains, just looks like his legendary inspiration, who is a "boy wonder" sort of trickster god. He has the proportions of a teenager (notice he is shaped like the operator...) so where's the confusion?

[hellodownthere]

On 3/9/2018 at 12:09 PM, (XB1)DrJackRuneX said:

Is it just me or does different tennos having specific genders make no sense? As I understand it, a Warframe is just a suit on an operator. So therefore having a suit change the gender of said operator is just wierd. 

Personally I would love to see a male and female option for ALL Frames. Who else wishes this?

no... warframes are a mass of infested flesh surrounded by whatever the outside is made of.

[Jarriaga]

On 3/9/2018 at 1:15 AM, TARINunit9 said:

While Warframe's Nezha has little excuse, the rest actually make sense within the lore. The Orokin were MASSIVE "form over function" fanatics, so the fact that the above-mentioned weapons all take a sharp right turn away from reality just plays into that. Compare the Gunsen, a bunch of irresponsible knives, with an actual war fan, something that was used as a weapon only in its folded-up form as a one-handed club.

Boy, Apple Inc. sure lasted long in the Warframe universe.

[TARINunit9]

On 3/9/2018 at 7:04 AM, Thaylien said:

Okay, but you're going to flip when you see this:

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Or this:

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Then there's also:

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And...

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I mean, none of the ones based off a myth really look representative of those myths...

Strikes me as a pretty fallacious comparison. I mean, Valkyr isn't even named "Valkyrie" in the first place, just for starters

[Jarriaga]

17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Strikes me as a pretty fallacious comparison. I mean, Valkyr isn't even named "Valkyrie" in the first place, just for starters

Nekros is not named Necromancer.

[thalion987]

Are you implying there are only two different genders? 

[TARINunit9]

8 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Nekros is not named Necromancer.

I don't actually see how that would be a valid criticism of my logic.

To clarify, I see Thaylien as being fallacious for bringing up Zephyr the demigod (the simple fact the Warframe is female makes it clear that the demigod is not the inspiration, unlike Nezha the demigod who IS confirmed to be the inspiration). I do not see how joking claiming she should be named "airbender" is even relevant

[Birdframe_Prime]

22 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

To clarify, I see Thaylien as being fallacious for bringing up Zephyr the demigod

Aww, shame, your sense of humour must feel so stifled... It's alright, you can let it out and comprehend the point of jokes.

[Jarriaga]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I don't actually see how that would be a valid criticism of my logic.

To clarify, I see Thaylien as being fallacious for bringing up Zephyr the demigod (the simple fact the Warframe is female makes it clear that the demigod is not the inspiration, unlike Nezha the demigod who IS confirmed to be the inspiration). I do not see how joking claiming she should be named "airbender" is even relevant

It is a valid criticism out of making a point of Valkyr not being based on valkeries just because she's not explicitly named as such. She's as much of a valkerie as Nekros is a necromancer.

[Soki01]

Not again .-. plz