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So Sound Quake is still a problem.


MirageKnight
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Left a match a while ago this evening where a max-range Banshee did nothing but spam SQ every 5-10 seconds for 5 waves of Defense on Hydron, being able to reach all the entrance points and netting 240+ kills and leaving the other 3 player (myself included) with scraps. The second highest scoring player, myself, netted a mere 74 kills - and this is with a pretty potent non-meta build.

This player just sat in the middle of Hydron spamming 4, while the rest of were leaping around trying to kill ANYTHING we could find before SQ did its thing. No one could compete with this, and at least one other player was trying to farm Focus (like myself). I got 52 kills at best...I usually wind up with 110+ on average by Wave 5 with everyone else scoring similar numbers.

Yes we all complained, but the player responded with "I just want to get through 5 waves of this and leave." To quote 1 player, "Such stimulating and interactive gameplay..."


DE, with all due respect, weren't you supposed to be addressing this sort of kill-robbing, easy-mode nonsense with Banshee (and Ember)? Because it's obviously still happening.


 

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On 3/14/2018 at 8:16 PM, MirageKnight said:

Left a match a while ago this evening where a max-range Banshee did nothing but spam SQ every 5-10 seconds for 5 waves of Defense on Hydron, being able to reach all the entrance points and netting 240+ kills and leaving the other 3 player (myself included) with scraps. The second highest scoring player, myself, netted a mere 74 kills - and this is with a pretty potent non-meta build.

This player just sat in the middle of Hydron spamming 4, while the rest of were leaping around trying to kill ANYTHING we could find before SQ did its thing. No one could compete with this, and at least one other player was trying to farm Focus (like myself). I got 52 kills at best...I usually wind up with 110+ on average by Wave 5 with everyone else scoring similar numbers.

Yes we all complained, but the player responded with "I just want to get through 5 waves of this and leave." To quote 1 player, "Such stimulating and interactive gameplay..."


DE, with all due respect, weren't you supposed to be addressing this sort of kill-robbing, easy-mode nonsense with Banshee (and Ember)? Because it's obviously still happening.


 

2000dac24eb880eeff70a5a81a8282b89dc8e7b0

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I certainly won't try to claim that the "fix" for ResoQuake was a successful / sensible one,
if anything it's worse now since you can regen Energy while spamming quakes :P

But, on this point ...

On 15.3.2018 at 3:16 AM, MirageKnight said:

at least one other player was trying to farm Focus (like myself). I got 52 kills at best

... just checking, you are aware that ally kills give you Affinity and thus Focus just fine, right?

Boredom is one thing, but it's not like "killstealing" is actually a serious problem in Warframe.

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В 15.03.2018 в 05:16, MirageKnight сказал:

DE, with all due respect, weren't you supposed to be addressing this sort of kill-robbing, easy-mode nonsense with Banshee (and Ember)? Because it's obviously still happening.

I did not get it. KS in warframe? I really don't understand.

What are you complaining about and why?
Moreover, every player can play as he wishes. Kill more effectively than others and stand as many waves as he wants.
If you wanted something different, negotiate and look for the group.

And judging by the number of your messages in this forum, you are not the first day in Warframe. That's why such tread from you looks somehow wrong.

 

RQ in Banshee now pretty weak. Even with power over 200%+ on hydron on 20+ wave you can't deal good amount of damage.

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I could do the same with Mag's Crush or Frost's Avalanche, among others. If that player picked any other low-level-room-massacre build, you might not have made the same complaint. Bored, sure, but not going as far as calling out on DE for a "failed" rework.

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Am ‎15‎.‎03‎.‎2018 um 03:16 schrieb MirageKnight:

trying to farm Focus (like myself)

you know of the Shared Affinity mechanic? Just stay in Affinity Range and enjoy your free Focus.

If you only have a lens in your Warframe and one weapon, only bring those two for your Farming run and enjoy the free Focus every kill of a group member is giving you.

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Part of the problem people didn't really read into or pick up on from OP is that...basically DE said they were going to address something, 'did' some 'things' that didn't address the actual problem they verbalized at all.  Sure, they induced some rage/panic and cut down on those particular builds and playstyles from players who think the frames were destroyed and are often the type to think a 3% nerf is the end of a character and playstyle in games...but yeah

DE was just completely inefficient and failed largely, though not completely, in doing what they said they did

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On 15/3/2018 at 3:16 AM, MirageKnight said:

Left a match a while ago this evening where a max-range Banshee did nothing but spam SQ every 5-10 seconds for 5 waves of Defense on Hydron, being able to reach all the entrance points and netting 240+ kills and leaving the other 3 player (myself included) with scraps. The second highest scoring player, myself, netted a mere 74 kills - and this is with a pretty potent non-meta build.

This player just sat in the middle of Hydron spamming 4, while the rest of were leaping around trying to kill ANYTHING we could find before SQ did its thing. No one could compete with this, and at least one other player was trying to farm Focus (like myself). I got 52 kills at best...I usually wind up with 110+ on average by Wave 5 with everyone else scoring similar numbers.

Yes we all complained, but the player responded with "I just want to get through 5 waves of this and leave." To quote 1 player, "Such stimulating and interactive gameplay..."


DE, with all due respect, weren't you supposed to be addressing this sort of kill-robbing, easy-mode nonsense with Banshee (and Ember)? Because it's obviously still happening.


 

I mean....
( and sorry about this but I am really annoyed by these threads by now )

1) Soundquake's augment is useless now, the ability is back to what it used to be before its implementation and no banshee player used to build their frame around it but they instead preferred sonar ; I also have to add that sound quake ( as well as world on fire and many other abilities ) does actually scale really bad and thus allows you to get a lot of kills against low level enemies and becomes completely useless at higher levels, hence why it wasn't even a problem.....banshee and ember needed another kind of rework.
Want to avoid seeing players using these kind of frames ? Run a high level missions , solo or get yourself a party of friends but don't force other players to play their frame without making them use their abilities only because otherwise you feel like you wouldn't have fun. 
 
2)  shared affinity is a thing, why do you complain ? "No one could compete" ? I think you got the game wrong, Warframe is based on cooperation, not competition. Actually, I'd be happy if I knew one of my team members can clear stuff efficiently, allowing us to farm more quickly and with relative ease.
Also, talking about focus....just quickly going to remind you that not everyone is in the same place to farm for the same resource...you know when that newbie extracts after the first 5 minutes of a survival mission and you'd like to keep staying because you were actually trying to farm for some mat ? The mechanism is the same.

3) why do people still care about kills or damage again ? Do they not understand that you have to play the objective in order to win and support your team with the tools you have ? Is it not clear that not every single frame is a dps frame ? Trinity's powers , Nova's , Oberon's and so on aren't meant to clear rooms , they are meant to support your party,  you should not be able to outdps an Ember by using them.

4) guess what ? The same goes for weapons ( a Vectis is meant to take down ViPs and a Soma is meant to clear rooms from squishies....as such...you will get a lot more kills with the Soma and probably more damage too cause of how much easier and faster it is to use it....but when you won't even scratch that level 140 bombards and the player with the Vectis will be able to take him down in 2 shots then you'll start seeing its utility ).

5)  why should people with bad and badly modded weapons and frames be able to outdamage me and my well modded , repeatedly forma'd and potato'd frames and weapons ? I am sorry if your unmodded mk1 braton can't outdamage my 6 formas boltor prime or if unlike my weapon it becomes useless after a while because you didn't spend time building its potential correctly but that is only just your fault.....I don't bring unmodded stuff inside missions and hope to be the best dps , let alone by a large margin.

6) kill robbing easy mode ? Again, why do you care about kills ? Why shouldn't some frames be allowed to have powerful aoe abilities ? Ember and Banshee are casters, they are squishy , they will die a lot more easily against stronger enemies and their powers won't even be useful in the long run, allowing you to turn the situation when you notice that while World on Fire is not doing anything anymore your weapons will still be able to pierce through them easily, bringing you to that "so adored" top dps spot. These frames are not overpowered, they are not broken....they need a real rework, not plain nerfs. 

I could go on but I am just going to stop here, I'd say it's enough.

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The issue isn't kill stealing, it's getting to play the game. Nobody likes being forced to stand around and watch someone else clear the map just by spamming one ability, be it Maim, Sound Quake, Reckoning, Crush, World on Fire, Discharge, Avalanche, or any other "hit 4 to kill everything" ability. Banshee is just a popular choice because Resonating Quake only uses 25 energy, compared to the 100 that other nuke abilities require.

And no, "just play solo" doesn't work if you're there for affinity/focus, materials, or mod drops, as more enemies spawn against 4 people, making the farming go faster.

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Read through the Comments. You can tell who and who is not a Sound Quake Spammer or uses similar methods. X'D

People trying to defend the "Just let them kill everything and do absolutely NOTHING while Playing a video game. 'Cause that's how video games work, after all. You don't play them!" spamming/farm style of Banshee's Sound Quake are only bringing the issue more and more to light for DE to nerf/change it once more. This time around though I hope they just take the ability away all together, or change it to a Point and Target one like Ash's.

 

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Right, hello! I'm Thaylien, long term player, teacher of new players and helper of people needing help. Maybe I can change your mind on this!

18 hours ago, Elyann said:

I mean....
( and sorry about this but I am really annoyed by these threads by now )

I think you're missing the point that these threads are trying to make here. But let's go through your points, see if I can break it down the way you have.

1. The Resonating Quake Aug is not useless anymore because of how people are using it. You're not wrong that it makes the ability terrible at high level, but players aren't taking it to high level, they're taking it to the level where the most players are and using it in a situation where it has the most frustrating effect on other players that aren't using it. Players using Resonating Quake are taking it to the first 10 waves of Hydron or Stofler, and then leaving, where it's perfectly viable as a way to nuke the waves quickly and get the job done.

Why is this a problem? Because players running these nodes are generically at the point where they actually want to play, not sit and wait for enemies to die around them. Warframe is based around highly-mobile, fluid combat where abilities and weapons make you feel powerful against the hordes of incoming enemies. Especially so in a team, where you get more abilities, more weapons, cooperation and involvement. Having one person carry a team through skill is fantastic, you can look up to a player like that, but having one player sit in the middle of the map and press 1 button to make everything die for ten waves? Boring.

2. Shared Affinity is a thing. But the player in the middle with a Resonating Quake Banshee isn't there for that, they're trying to get the mission done as fast as possible to get the mission rewards, or the Focus rewards, for themselves. And most importantly they want to do it with the minimum of actually playing the game as they possibly can, because any player with a Savage Silence Banshee knows that Affinity gain is faster if you go on an Exterminate and use the Stealth Multiplier, where Eidolon Lenses and a Booster let you get between 90k and 120k Focus in a single run, depending on the node. Heck, I can use that method to get 30k out of Hellas on Mars.

Players on Public using Resonating Quake on the first ten waves of a Defense are not there to actually benefit anyone but themselves. And if you want to be specific, Affinity share actually steals 75% of Affinity that another could be trying to put into their Warframe, because Shared affinity only puts 25% of the total affinity into the frame and the other 75% gets split into the weapons equipped. If a player is trying to level their Warframe, it's 100% more effective to use the frame's powers to attack enemies, even if the powers don't kill them, it counts towards the affinity of the Frame, not the weapons.

3. It's not the damage or the kills, people want to play the objective to complete the game. They want to participate and actually play the objective, not sit and wait for it to be done for them. Not every single frame is DPS, no, but it doesn't matter if you can't use those abilities yourself at all, since somebody else is sitting pressing 4. What is the point of bringing a Nova or a Trinity to a defense when the enemies don't even get close to the objective? Why bring a frame capable of being useful on Defense if somebody else is going to be playing the game for you anyway and ignoring what you do?

4. Same goes for weapons. Why bring anything that you want to actually try using if the Banshee is going to kill everything for you?

5. Why should people with badly modded weapons and frames out-damage you? They shouldn't. What they should do is be able to actually attack the enemy and get loot without chasing them down in their spawn rooms and hoping to kill them in the 5 seconds between your Quake casts. 

On the other hand, I'll put my 6 forma'd Mk-1 Braton against your 6 forma'd Boltor and, if you were actually using the weapon instead of spamming Quake, I would have confidence that I could at least match you for damage and kills because I have modding ability, mechanical gameplay skills and knowledge of how the game functions. If we're actually playing the game, instead of performing the mechanically least-effort-necessary route of gaining rewards, then I can actually use skill and experience. With a Resonating Quake Banshee on the field spamming 4, I can't.

6. Kill stealing is a thing for the exact reason I mentioned above; shared affinity only puts 25% of the affinity you gain into the Warframe, where killing with the Warframe or at least casting your own powers on the enemy, grants 100% of received Affinity to the frame itself.

Further, yes Banshee and Ember are squishy casters, and so they should have powerful AoE abilities as part of their casting. That's great, but then why don't the players of those frames go use them on difficult missions? Why do they insist on dropping onto Hydron or Stofler and spamming their power on low-level mobs where they're in no risk of being killed?

Because they're not trying to play the game.

They're trying to use the most time-efficient, effort-saving route to gaining rewards.

They're trying to remove grind from their day, at the expense of other players' enjoyment of the game.

That's why these threads keep coming back and back and back.

TL;DR

The question is not 'Why shouldn't players use the most efficient route to gain the most rewards?' Because that's a basic task of any grind-based looter-shooter game. You are supposed to find the quickest and simplest way to grind so that you can enjoy the rewards.

The question is 'Why should these efficient routes to gaining rewards cause other players to be unable to enjoy the game the way it's supposed to be played?'.

There are other ways that Resonating Quake could function, ways that DE actually named when they were talking about the rework; things like making it a short-range placed object, similar to Mallet or the Zenistar, so that Banshee can place it and still use her other skills, move and so on. That was one of the options DE said in their DevStreams when talking about it, and we were all optimistic, because that would mean Banshee wasn't trapped in the middle of a Defense spamming one ability, and instead able to move and cast like Nekros can after the change to Desecrate.

I have no idea why DE changed the ability to the way it is now, over something like that.

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30 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

1. The Resonating Quake Aug is not useless anymore because of how people are using it. You're not wrong that it makes the ability terrible at high level, but players aren't taking it to high level, they're taking it to the level where the most players are and using it in a situation where it has the most frustrating effect on other players that aren't using it. Players using Resonating Quake are taking it to the first 10 waves of Hydron or Stofler, and then leaving, where it's perfectly viable as a way to nuke the waves quickly and get the job done.

i think this is a point SOOOO many people dont get. people aren't spamming missions at 40m -2hr+ you will even be lucky to see a pug even go as far as full rotation. sortie 2 and 3 is the only place you will see non scaling damage fall off right at the start but even then how many people spam sortie 3 after they complete it the first time. ive always said this but enemy scale needs a proper re-evaluation which will probably lead to a more major game balance change. alot of work for sure but necessary.

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To be fair I'd rather have my warframes get cancer rather than having a sound quake banshee in my team. They make the game completely uninteractive and you sit there with nothing to do. To be fair equinox is probably worse though as banshee is limited to lvl 40 and under, while equinox has no upper limit.

I'm fine with big damage 4s but range should be extremely limited, not this insane 60+ meters.

Edited by sixmille
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most people complain too much... this thread is not any different. 

Don't like [enter irrelevant sentimental BS]? leave party, start new game

or better yet... invite your squad

complaining how others use a character which can be used in such a way is like blaming a fish for swimming in water... seriously

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The only issue here is that Digital Extremes constantly talks about making changes to promote more engaging gameplay, while doing nothing of the sort. Their changes serve to make it easier to sit nearly afk, but require you to press more buttons. Because someone has to press the button more than once, they call it a day and consider it fixed.ember still smears low level content, like all the newer players complained about, but she performs notably worse against higher levels without her CC. Banshee got a buff, if anything, out of the RQ change. Then we have frames that they haven't bothered to change, that are far more efficient, and far less exciting. Equinox with her Maim build, Octavia's near invulnerability and mass scaling damage. They've got a design philosophy they like to talk about, but their money is never where their mouth is.

Edited by SteamlordD
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5 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Right, hello! I'm Thaylien, long term player, teacher of new players and helper of people needing help. Maybe I can change your mind on this!

*An actual good, well reasoned post on why people keep seeing this topic pop up.*

TL;DR

The question is not 'Why shouldn't players use the most efficient route to gain the most rewards?' Because that's a basic task of any grind-based looter-shooter game. You are supposed to find the quickest and simplest way to grind so that you can enjoy the rewards.

The question is 'Why should these efficient routes to gaining rewards cause other players to be unable to enjoy the game the way it's supposed to be played?'.

There are other ways that Resonating Quake could function, ways that DE actually named when they were talking about the rework; things like making it a short-range placed object, similar to Mallet or the Zenistar, so that Banshee can place it and still use her other skills, move and so on. That was one of the options DE said in their DevStreams when talking about it, and we were all optimistic, because that would mean Banshee wasn't trapped in the middle of a Defense spamming one ability, and instead able to move and cast like Nekros can after the change to Desecrate.

I have no idea why DE changed the ability to the way it is now, over something like that.

Seriously people, this post covers it all on why these threads keep popping up.

 

Edited by KokoroWish
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Am I the only one that noticed the Op in one sentence said they got 74 kills and then a couple sentences later that number was 52 instead? I'm not crazy am I? Dunno but that really kinda stuck out to me like a sore thumb. Maybe DE will get it right next time or maybe not, really makes no difference to me. I try to not get so hung up on games. If someone wants to do the work for me that's no sweat off my brow, if not I'll pull my own weight. It's all the same in the end. Regardless, doctor says too much sodium is bad for my health so I'll take my leave.

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14 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Why do they insist on dropping onto Hydron or Stofler and spamming their power on low-level mobs?

I agree with your TL;DR, but this line sticks out as a bit off.

Hydron is the highest level Defense mission that is constantly available and doesn't through Nullifiers and Ancients at you. I'm not sure what you mean by 'low-level' when this is literally the highest level Defense mission that is actually friendly to caster frames.

 

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