I really don't understand why people are so in-love with the idea of ember giving extra *heat damage* to weapons...

[Maka.Bones]

It's HEAT damage. It scales poorly, and it also dilutes chances for corrosive, or viral procs. Why would you ever want that? And why are people so excited over +50% heat damage, when shooting from the inside of a *very narrow circle, that doesn't move? Do you guys realize that it just sets you up to get oneshot, against lvl 50+ enemies? Honestly, do you not get that?

And lets say the weapon primarily deals heat damage, and you can still modd it to get corrosive damage as well (javlok, sylva & aegis, ogris). Then lets say that you're also spamming accelerant, for that delicious x7 heat damage multiplier, and you're running it with flash accelerant for even more added heat damage (while standing in fireblast). Lets assume you have +200% heat damage from ember buffs, x7 = 2100% increased damage... right? Wrong. That's not how they calculate accelerant's damage bonus. x7 heat damage multiplier, is a fancy & lowkey way of saying +700% base heat damage. Meaning that you're only really getting somewhere near +900% heat damage total, once the buffs settle in. Heat damage... which scales so piss-poorly against endgame content. So while your javlok, ogris, sylva & aegis, atomos, ignis, DO in fact benefit from the increased heat.... You'd still be better off using something that focuses on doing corrosive/viral + puncture/slash. Because after armor-induced damage reduction, you're really only seeing a ~200% damage increase (or less, against some enemies),  Yes, they do reduce your damage by close to 80%. So for everyone who worships/swears by flash accelerant, or the increased heat damage to weapons from fireblast: Yes it's "helpful", but it's not THAT good... it's mostly restrictive & limiting. 

 

TLDR: Read the bold text.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Xolgys]

i really hoped embers passive gets a change. its the definition of useless imo. heat damage was always bad versus armor and that didnt just start off with her changes recently.

personally id really love to see something like this instead of her current passive: heat proccs also reduce enemy armor.

that would also solve ur mentioned issue.

[Hypernaut1]

I dunno, it's at least better than NO damage buff I guess?

[Maka.Bones]

I would much rather use ember as a caster, that's actually capable of efficiently killing enemies with her abilities. I don't desire to need* to rely on my weapons, outside of the occasional exception/heavy target. 

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I dunno, it's at least better than NO damage buff I guess?

So you're settling with something *below* mediocre, instead of focusing on actually making her into a good caster frame?

[Maka.Bones]

4 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

i really hoped embers passive gets a change. its the definition of useless imo. heat damage was always bad versus armor and that didnt just start off with her changes recently.

personally id really love to see something like this instead of her current passive: heat proccs also reduce enemy armor.

that would also solve ur mentioned issue.

You mean like dis? (check out the passive suggestion at the top)

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Xolgys]

ye pretty much. 0 impact early game so it doesnt increase the issue when ppl complain bout ember facerolling low lv missions but late game a real additon to a team.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Cause i like fire. Tbh armor is really only a big issue with one faction so for me heat damage is nice. So what if it's not the biggest buff ever it's been doing the job for me in sortie content and we still haven't gotten the beam weapon changes (I use ignis, gonna swap to wraith) so it'll be more silly then.

Also you're acting like people just set it up in a spot by them in the middle of a hail of bullets. Fire blast can be used offensively where you pop it at a chokepoint or something. On a defense target is great v infested where everyone will get the buff if they shoot the enemies. 

But i'm also one of those crazy people that also flash accels the team. Never built for WoF.

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, Xydeth said:

ye pretty much. 0 impact early game so it doesnt increase the issue when ppl complain bout ember facerolling low lv missions but late game a real additon to a team.

Exactly!

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I agree. honestly, I think Ember needs her kit adjusting to do more than just set mobs on fire. just about every other frame that uses elements can use them in more than one way, a slight heat damage buff for others does NOT put Ember on the same level as Frost, Volt or Saryn. she needs some proper CC, a heal, or a defensive power in there somewhere.

I was thinking maybe a Fire Shield that burns all projectiles that touch her and damage melee enemies. (essentially like a cross between Shatter Shield and Warding Halo). or perhaps a "cleansing fire" that she can apply to herself and others to remove status effects, essentially giving her a welcome role as a elemental counter for late game. I believe we need more creativity in Embers kit.

[Maka.Bones]

On 3/15/2018 at 8:13 AM, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Cause i like fire. Tbh armor is really only a big issue with one faction so for me heat damage is nice. So what if it's not the biggest buff ever it's been doing the job for me in sortie content and we still haven't gotten the beam weapon changes (I use ignis, gonna swap to wraith) so it'll be more silly then.

Yeah, i love fire too. That's why i'd like to see ember's flashy fire abilities able to kill people... not just be a glorified incendiary-bullet, third person shooter. Incendiary  bullets aren't that special... they already exist. 

On 3/15/2018 at 8:13 AM, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Tbh armor is really only a big issue with one faction

Not when they're higher than lvl 50... Corpus gain armor. Corrupted gain armor equivalent to grineer. Even infested enemies gain armor (though they do still die faster)

On 3/15/2018 at 8:13 AM, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

... in sortie content and we still haven't gotten the beam weapon changes (I use ignis, gonna swap to wraith) so it'll be more silly then.

You're using ignis in sorties.... not even wrath? You must not be getting many kills... or were they infested sorties? Because it's kinda crap at that point. I mean, it's not awful. it does work. Just that you'll appreciate having other options in the future... unless you just like flamethrowers that much.  I'm mostly curious about how you make it work, so I can also use my ignis in sorties xD

On 3/15/2018 at 8:13 AM, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Also you're acting like people just set it up in a spot by them in the middle of a hail of bullets. Fire blast can be used offensively where you pop it at a chokepoint or something. On a defense target is great v infested where everyone will get the buff if they shoot the enemies. 

No... it's that WoF still does that better. And you can still be the accelerant buffer for the team, while using WoF situationally. 

Also, even just slowing down a little bit--to shoot at a narrow spot--or getting close to enemy chokepoints, to place fireblast... that leaves you with SO MANY openings for ranged enemies to shoot you. Literally, if you have to run to that spot, to leave behind a short-duration fireblast (which costs a lot of energy) why aren't you just using WoF/ firequake? Especially on infested, WoF is much much better. And you take it with you where you go :) So you don't need to keep recasting it as often, or slowing down just to aim at one spot. 

On 3/15/2018 at 8:13 AM, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

But i'm also one of those crazy people that also flash accels the team. Never built for WoF.

Well congrats! Here's a medal & a cookie. *hands medal and cookie*

Ok serious now... The wonderful thing about WoF is that you don't need to build for it. It's still the better one of the CC abilities when it comes to mid-range, regardless of what you build for. Because it's mobile & automatically re-applies CC to enemies. It's much better defense against infested/melee enemies, than fireblast/firefright.  

Fireblast is literally a watered-down, lesser version of WoF. 

Edit: btw how are you modding ignis? I'd like to use it more in endgame content.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I agree. honestly, I think Ember needs her kit adjusting to do more than just set mobs on fire. just about every other frame that uses elements can use them in more than one way, a slight heat damage buff for others does NOT put Ember on the same level as Frost, Volt or Saryn. she needs some proper CC, a heal, or a defensive power in there somewhere.

I was thinking maybe a Fire Shield that burns all projectiles that touch her and damage melee enemies. (essentially like a cross between Shatter Shield and Warding Halo). or perhaps a "cleansing fire" that she can apply to herself and others to remove status effects, essentially giving her a welcome role as a elemental counter for late game. I believe we need more creativity in Embers kit.

Dude yeah, that would make much more sense than what she currently has/does. If they're gonna do the "weapons gain fire damage" meme, they should at least do it properly.

[Hypernaut1]

8 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

So you're settling with something *below* mediocre, instead of focusing on actually making her into a good caster frame?

I'm all for Ember buffs.i think it should give more of a bonus seeing as it's a stationary ring. I still see as a buff though

[Maka.Bones]

10 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm all for Ember buffs.i think it should give more of a bonus seeing as it's a stationary ring. I still see as a buff though

I mean... if you add *$5, to $100, it's still an increase to the overall value... yeah, you're right. I'm not saying it's *bad*... just that it's not contributing very much at the end of the day.

*Edit:* @Hypernaut1Just to be clear, I also agree that the weapon damage buffs should be more significant. 

But then again, I would still prefer to play her as a caster frame. Not a weapon enhancer.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[NullSaint]

45 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I really don't understand why people are so in-love with the idea of ember giving extra *heat damage* to weapons...

That seems fair.

For my part, I don't understand why people are still so butt-hurt about a simple change to one piece of such a huge game. But to each his own....

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, NullSaint said:

For my part, I don't understand why people are still so butt-hurt about a simple change to one piece of such a huge game. But to each his own....

Fair point. I'm not saying to remove heat damage to weps altogether... just not to make it ember's main concept/theme. People praise it, but it's mathematically worse than actually using ember's abilities + accelerant. It's just that IPS innate damage (or the other elements) can usually compensate for that. 

 

Tho as far as ppl complaining about a single change to such a huge game? fair observation, but you'll understand it better when one of your *favorites* (wep, or warframe) gets a nerf. Tho it's mostly just because I really like fire abilities, and the last rework seemed unfinished/halfbaked. 

[Maka.Bones]

41 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

ye pretty much. 0 impact early game so it doesnt increase the issue when ppl complain bout ember facerolling low lv missions but late game a real additon to a team.

Btw pls comment your opinion on that post, so it can stay near the top & fresh/relevant to ongoing posts. 

[polarity]

Some people just don't have the relevant skills required to play a glass-cannon, so they need the game to CC and kill everything for them, just for the inconvenience of pushing a single button.

That the OP claims he keeps dying at level 50+ should be all the indication you need of his skill level at this game, and the validity of his argument (or rather utter lack thereof).

And that he claims weapons plus accelerant is 'mathematically worse' than abilities + accelerant shows that he has no understanding of how to build weapons to work with accelerant.

[NullSaint]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Tho as far as ppl complaining about a single change to such a huge game? fair observation, but you'll understand it better when one of your *favorites* (wep, or warframe) gets a nerf. Tho it's mostly just because I really like fire abilities, and the last rework seemed unfinished/halfbaked. 

It sucks that your favorite frame got hit with a big change. Personally, I think the change achieved exactly what they wanted it to--but it wasn't what they said they wanted it to. I don't think they really cared about the low-level content; I think they used that as an excuse because they were worried that if they had used the real reason (sleepwalking through lvl 100 missions) the forums would have erupted. But by doing this, the people who see that it didn't effect low-level content at all will just say, "Oh, it's DE--they just screwed it up" and grumble and then go on.  But that's just my opinion.

At any rate, it just seems unlikely that it's going to change at this point--and yet it is a certainty that it will change in the future ;)  Hang in there, tenno!

[Maka.Bones]

16 minutes ago, polarity said:

Some people just don't have the relevant skills required to play a glass-cannon, so they need the game to CC and kill everything for them, just for the inconvenience of pushing a single button.

That the OP claims he keeps dying at level 50+ should be all the indication you need of his skill level at this game, and the validity of his argument (or rather utter lack thereof).

And that he claims weapons plus accelerant is 'mathematically worse' than abilities + accelerant shows that he has no understanding of how to build weapons to work with accelerant.

Orly? Just because I said enemies at lvl 50 (mot/bounty 5) *can oneshot* ember, doesn't mean I can't stay alive. ;)

Also, no... it's armor-based damage reduction. It's not the weapon build, it's legit due to the damage reduction enemies get from their insane armor. Maybe check your own maths. 

Edit: Oh and btw  @polarity no, I don't rely on an ability doing all the work for me. In fact, I don't really rely on any of ember's abilities atm, because it's a lot more efficient to just use my primaries/melee :) That's why "op" is frustrated.

But hey, thanks for quickly jumping to conclusions, and assuming the worst. Surely it's easy to point the finger, before seeing something for yourself. GG feel proud. 

Maybe try inspecting my profile first next time? Before you try to belittle me (or another person) at least. :)

Edited March 15, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

7 minutes ago, NullSaint said:

It sucks that your favorite frame got hit with a big change. Personally, I think the change achieved exactly what they wanted it to--but it wasn't what they said they wanted it to. I don't think they really cared about the low-level content; I think they used that as an excuse because they were worried that if they had used the real reason (sleepwalking through lvl 100 missions) the forums would have erupted. But by doing this, the people who see that it didn't effect low-level content at all will just say, "Oh, it's DE--they just screwed it up" and grumble and then go on.  But that's just my opinion.

At any rate, it just seems unlikely that it's going to change at this point--and yet it is a certainty that it will change in the future ;)  Hang in there, tenno!

Hey if there was another fire-themed warframe, then I might not care as much.

It's not *the big change* that happened though. It's the lack of a big change, that's frustrating. They messed with ember, but didn't actually improve her. That's a huge tease. (so yeah, you're pretty accurate)

Edited March 15, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[polarity]

11 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I don't really rely on any of ember's abilities atm, because it's a lot more efficient to just use my primaries/melee

Then you just admitted for a second time that you don't know how to build weapons to benefit from accelerant.

[Maka.Bones]

4 minutes ago, polarity said:

Then you just admitted for a second time that you don't know how to build weapons to benefit from accelerant.

Uh no... more like I *don't need* accelerant. Pls actually listen. 

Accelerant builds let me two-shot an enemy, that my vectis can oneshot. I'll take the oneshot instead, ty. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

6 minutes ago, polarity said:

Then you just admitted for a second time that you don't know how to build weapons to benefit from accelerant.

Also, don't just go around pointing your fongers, without actually contributing anything. If you're so good at building for accelerant, why don't you share your builds/stories/strategy/capacity/content? Instead of only trying to tell me that I suck :)

Actually show me that you're better than me, like you claim. Go ahead and prove me wrong. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[polarity]

I've been providing my builds in threads since this whole nonsense started, as well as video of my build in use, so I'm sure you could already have found my examples with very little effort.  I'm sure you'll have your excuses though, to keep up your inane rant about how Ember is somehow weak.

Your Ember is weak, because she's played by the kind of person who thinks that a sniper rifle is an appropriate weapon to use on an Ember.  And I thought you couldn't embarrass yourself any further.

[edit] And maybe enemies wouldn't one-shot you so much if you didn't just stand in the middle of them aiming down your sights, and perhaps had some idea of a target priority, so you don't leave something with a toxic aura alive to kill you:
 

You claiming that there's something wrong with the frame after posting yourself playing like that, is just comedy gold.

Edited March 15, 2018 by polarity