Power Creep Paradigm Shift

[DEATHLOK]

It was a lot of fun when Mirage players with Synoid Simulor would race through Extermination maps and kill everything, and no one else in the squad ever got to fire a shot. Lots of fun.

You guys nerfed Mirage.

But you created Riven mods.

And now a wide range of players with a wide range of weapons (whips, most often) are ripping through Extermination maps killing everything, and no one else in the squad ever gets to fire a shot.

Same level of fun as before.

[Thundervision]

Melee rebalance and overhaul are on their way. And the first one will most likely touch the stats. Get your popcorn.

[theraot]

Oh, the melee rebalance will be epic, even - and probably in particular - if it misses its mark.

[Aeon94]

11 minutes ago, Thundervision said:

Melee rebalance and overhaul are on their way. And the first one will most likely touch the stats. Get your popcorn.

Already grabbed mine :d

[HellVOps]

Keywords: on their way, aka  Soon^TM.

And we all know how DE sometimes takes their time, sometimes forever.....

[DrBorris]

Um, why do you think Mirage + S. Simulor was nerfed exactly? Not to be rude, but I don't think you have the best concept of what balance actually means.

[Condeangel]

16 minutes ago, Thundervision said:

Melee rebalance and overhaul are on their way. And the first one will most likely touch the stats. Get your popcorn.

 

4 minutes ago, HellVOps said:

Keywords: on their way, aka  Soon^TM.

And we all know how DE sometimes takes their time, sometimes forever.....

They dont even decided yet how deep the rework will be, and if its somewhat deeper, it will be released next year or later, not this one

[DEATHLOK]

5 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Um, why do you think Mirage + S. Simulor was nerfed exactly? Not to be rude, but I don't think you have the best concept of what balance actually means.

Perhaps, one day, I might be as smart as you....

[Zyrgi]

31 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

It was a lot of fun when Mirage players with Synoid Simulor would race through Extermination maps and kill everything, and no one else in the squad ever got to fire a shot. Lots of fun.

You guys nerfed Mirage.

But you created Riven mods.

And now a wide range of players with a wide range of weapons (whips, most often) are ripping through Extermination maps killing everything, and no one else in the squad ever gets to fire a shot.

Same level of fun as before.

So, you want inefficient farming in a farming simulator in space? Because that's what Warframe is mostly about - farming.

[DrBorris]

10 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

Perhaps, one day, I might be as smart as you....

I deserve such sass, but seriously, balance is not as simple as "you nerf Simulor but have Riven mods." Balance is not a numbers game, balance is not pie chart, balance is not a simple list of positives and negatives.

 

Balance entirely has to do with how you play the game and if the developer finds it healthy. They did not find it healthy to run through a mission spamming fire without any care for aim (there was also the obnoxiousness of Miragulor). However, the do find it health for shotguns and snipers to deal god-killing damage. This is an ex example of how it is not just a numbers game. Many sniper rifles and shotguns already practically deal infinite damage because any meaningfully leveled enemy can be one shot, but I don't see people talking about how Lanka is the most OP gun in the game.

I am not even really sure how you are equating Rivens to this all, Rivens are still bound to the constraints of the weapon and there are very, very few cases of where Rivens actually surpass top-tier weapons. Cool, you have a god role Riven for Sicarus Prime (arguably one of the best secondaries in the game at base), does this really alter the gameplay that much? You still have to aim at the enemy, pull the trigger and then move your aim to the next. You still have to maintain when to reload and account for the little kick Sicarus has. The gameplay of a riven'd and unriven'd Sicarus is near identical. Yeah, the riven'd Sicarus can kill higher level stuff faster, but since when is killing higher level stuff of any actual consequence? The cap of meaningful content is level 100, something every top tier and many mid-tier weapons can handle on their own. If you don't understand why S. Simulor was nerfed I don't know what to say, it was not the numbers that backed it up, it was the high AoE and brain-dead gameplay it was attached to. It was the easiest weapon to use and just so happened to be the most efficient, if you don't see a problem there I am not sure how to help you. In most games you are encouraged to interact with the game, not streamline its gameplay.

 

I don't mean for you to think I am calling you stupid, but how else am I supposed to say that you really aren't getting it. This balance mentality has led to a lot of the forums being paranoid about DE and has created this misconception that there can't be balance. Balance is not simple and attempting to simplify it only makes it harder to achieve.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, DEATHLOK said:

It was a lot of fun when Mirage players with Synoid Simulor would race through Extermination maps and kill everything, and no one else in the squad ever got to fire a shot. Lots of fun.

You guys nerfed Mirage.

But you created Riven mods.

And now a wide range of players with a wide range of weapons (whips, most often) are ripping through Extermination maps killing everything, and no one else in the squad ever gets to fire a shot.

Same level of fun as before.

Agree, one thing that disgusts me most is that "Chance to Crit on Spin Attack". Thats a status that shouldnt exist, neither on its own mod or on Rivens.

[DEATHLOK]

44 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

If you don't understand why S. Simulor was nerfed I don't know what to say,

Where did I hint at such a thing?

You are clearly so accustomed to wallowing in your own sense of genius that you are recklessly assuming the lot of us to be beneath you, making all manner of ill-informed and nonsensical judgments. I find such displays of abject priggishness rather grating.

You need to reflect upon your sense of self and your place in this world.

I chose to add you to my ignore list, and I suggest you do the same.

Edited March 17, 2018 by DEATHLOK

[Guest]

1 hour ago, theraot said:

Oh, the melee rebalance will be epic, even - and probably in particular - if it misses its mark.

At this point I would see pretty much anything as an improvement as long as it shifts the meta away from spamming Memeing Strike

Edited March 17, 2018 by Guest

[PatternistSlave]

1 hour ago, DEATHLOK said:

It was a lot of fun when Mirage players with Synoid Simulor would race through Extermination maps and kill everything, and no one else in the squad ever got to fire a shot. Lots of fun.

You guys nerfed Mirage.

But you created Riven mods.

And now a wide range of players with a wide range of weapons (whips, most often) are ripping through Extermination maps killing everything, and no one else in the squad ever gets to fire a shot.

Same level of fun as before.

It's called meaningful progression.  They can nerf after nerf after nerf upon nerf and all it accomplishes is something new for you all to whine about.  Everything is "OP" on lesser content because the game has meaningful progression and gear needs to be able to be used on higher leveled content.  Rivens are endgame level and as such need to be at the level of endgame.  Weirdly enough that means they wreck anything below that.  The other option is for all levels to be normalized, but then you get into a situation where progression feels completely pointless because everything performs exactly the same regardless of the level.  Just go play Destiny 2 if a straight up shooter without meaningful progression is your thing.

[DEATHLOK]

Just now, PatternistSlave said:

It's called meaningful progression.  They can nerf after nerf after nerf upon nerf and all it accomplishes is something new for you all to whine about.  Everything is "OP" on lesser content because the game has meaningful progression and gear needs to be able to be used on higher leveled content.  Rivens are endgame level and as such need to be at the level of endgame.  Weirdly enough that means they wreck anything below that.  The other option is for all levels to be normalized, but then you get into a situation where progression feels completely pointless because everything performs exactly the same regardless of the level.  Just go play Destiny 2 if a straight up shooter without meaningful progression is your thing.

"Whine?"

"Just go play Destiny...."

Surely, this kind of stuff is forum gold.

I suppose we should all shut up, now, before your favorite weapon or Riven mod gets hit with the Nerf Hammer....

[PatternistSlave]

Just now, DEATHLOK said:

"Whine?"

"Just go play Destiny...."

Surely, this kind of stuff is forum gold.

I suppose we should all shut up, now, before your favorite weapon or Riven mod gets hit with the Nerf Hammer....

When is it enough is the point you're missing.  The answer is never.  Meanwhile players that have put time and effort into this gear you so casually decide should become garbage...

[--END--Rikutatis]

9 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

It's called meaningful progression.  They can nerf after nerf after nerf upon nerf and all it accomplishes is something new for you all to whine about.  Everything is "OP" on lesser content because the game has meaningful progression and gear needs to be able to be used on higher leveled content.  Rivens are endgame level and as such need to be at the level of endgame.  Weirdly enough that means they wreck anything below that.  The other option is for all levels to be normalized, but then you get into a situation where progression feels completely pointless because everything performs exactly the same regardless of the level.  Just go play Destiny 2 if a straight up shooter without meaningful progression is your thing.

^ this guy gets it. If you weren't complaining about whips + rivens you'd be complaining about something else clearing rooms much faster than whatever weapon you happen to be using at the time can. Maybe an equinox, mesa, ignis wraith, amprex or whatever. Point is, power creep is all over the game. We need meaningful and rewarding higher level content to play through where a +range riven scoliac won't be able to clear 25m around it with one slide. But that boat might have sailed already, it's just the nature of the power fantasy game. For you, I would recommend to stop playing public matches. Join a clan, play with a group of friends who think like you, or just go solo. Nerfing whips will just transfer the cheese to the next best thing. 

[DEATHLOK]

It must be terrifying when you favorite gear is being spotlighted, thanks to players using it to wreck public matches.

When I complained about Tonkor getting Nerfed, I, myself, was subjected to untold hate from the apologists. I may have even gotten a warning point for daring to argue with someone defending the design changes (likely a Smurf). I have been on both sides of the situation over the years, and you know what?

I no longer give a damn.

Nerf whatever the hell you want, DE, because a balanced game should always be the goal, not pacifying a few players who confuse their "skillz" with the use of over-powered game content. These people remind me of a top-tier Tribes clan that had to use aim-assisting hacks as they were competing at the "highest level of ability." Oh, please, just get over yourselves. No one needs to bow and scrape before you, and you shouldn't be calling attention to yourselves by wrecking public matches. I can spin through a map with Atterax, but that doesn't mean I've got skills—it means I'm an inconsiderate ass.

And, yeah, after they Nerf whips, they should go after the next thing used to break the game. The work should not end, not unless DE wants the money to end.

Good day to you all.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'll be honest I use maiming strike on a Orthos...and it's tons of fun...I try to avoid stealing kills on lower levels with it...because I know it ruins the fun for other players...I only exert my mod power load out when new players are getting killed. Never liked the synoid and my Mirage and Ember are reserved for higher planets...why...because I know how new players feel and they want to feel powerful and not sidelined...and I want them to feel powerful so they grind for more power and fall n love with game like I did. 

 

Powercreep though is is a serious part of this game..it's the evolution of this enemy gets better...we get better to match it...only now it's on the other side...the Devs need to add the next evolution of the enemy...so the power has something to match against...I just don't want to go backwards...that feels stagnate...but adding new powerful Sentients and this new spider foe class ...that's the path that's not boring, compared to nerfing everyone down so they might feel something fighting year 1 enemy types. We did five years of that...time for new foes that match the power levels achieved today. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey