Rework Nyx

[(PSN)TertulSee]

On 3/18/2018 at 5:12 PM, ViolaRecluse said:

I came up with this on the spot:

Take Mind Control off a flat duration and instead have it drain energy.

Have it follow you around and allow it to be commanded like a specter.

 

Psychic Bolts,

I feel like at least raise the chance of proc'ing the passive for it

other wise it needs to be replaced entirely

 

And over all Nyx needs to be faster, to get into a position and back out and what not.

maybe not Loki fast, but faster then Excalibur for certain

Please... no... don’t make Defense waves last forever please...

[ViolaRecluse]

2 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Please... no... don’t make Defense waves last forever please...

The idea was for the ability to maintain most of its current function, like storing friendly damage and its toggle function.

Having it last until energy ran out would be nightmarish and make it less usable than Psychic Bolts

[NezuHimeSama]

4 hours ago, InappropriateName534099 said:

Nah my favorite frame is Excalibur but I do like Nyx and I really think she needs some changes. The only reason she hasn't been given buffs is because no one even pays attention to her.

Or maybe it's because she's already kinda OP and doesn't need buffs?

She needs a few minor QoL changes.

[InappropriateName534099]

3 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Or maybe it's because she's already kinda OP and doesn't need buffs?

She needs a few minor QoL changes.

OP in what way? I swear people overuse the term "OP".. You do realize the term "OP" means OverPowered right? In what way is Nyx overpowered? Almost every ability she has there's a frame that can do it better. Her 1 has nothing on Nekros. Her 2 has nothing on any frame that will actually damage enemies. Her 4 Rhino can do better. Her only ability that no other frame can do like she can "I think" is Her 3rd ability, Which just makes them hit each other not even dealing that much damage. So please explain, how in the hell is she OP?

[(PSN)H3art_Th13f]

On 3/18/2018 at 8:58 PM, Zhoyzu said:

the issue is actually you just wouldnt be able to comprehend what im saying rather than the content of the explanation.

dawg licking des bum won't get you on their good graces. mind control is a great troll ability since you can extend a defense mission despite them being allys, and they deal the same damage and have the same health so they will kill like maybe 1 or 2 enemies.

 

psychic bolts sucks, her abilities don't benefit from damage but that one does and absorb (absorb not so much). 

 

mind control should work on groups 

 

psychic bolts could just be a terrify like ability and pacify them.

 

chaos shouldln't let them target you or your team.

absorbs damage should be 1:1

[NezuHimeSama]

1 hour ago, InappropriateName534099 said:

OP in what way? I swear people overuse the term "OP".. You do realize the term "OP" means OverPowered right? In what way is Nyx overpowered? Almost every ability she has there's a frame that can do it better. Her 1 has nothing on Nekros. Her 2 has nothing on any frame that will actually damage enemies. Her 4 Rhino can do better. Her only ability that no other frame can do like she can "I think" is Her 3rd ability, Which just makes them hit each other not even dealing that much damage. So please explain, how in the hell is she OP?

lol no, rhino can't come close to the tankability of Nyx's 4. And having both that and good CC and support makes her pretty OP.

[Borg1611]

I don't think wanting to make her more than an outdated one ability wonder where chaos is her only mildly interesting or impressive abilities and is easily replaced by several other wide area CCs is just "QQ." She's also not remotely overpowered given how many other mass area CCs this game has, which is her only real niche. Her damage is trash and has no scaling compared to numerous other abilities, including some with infinite scaling. Absorb is meh at best. There are much better survival tools with less of a cost or penalty that don't require an augment to not be obnoxious. It also isn't that great of a damage dealing ability. It's like a weaker version of mallet with less range that pacifies you if you don't give up a mod slot.

Her first 3 abilities are redundant CC with no meaningful synergy. Chaos is just the best one and the other ones are just sort of there for the hell of it. There's also no synergy between her first 3 abilities and her 4th since it's counter-intuitive to CC the hell out of everything and then have a random ability to then make them want to attack you instead. MC's only real unique roll is taking over an annoying single target standing on an interception point or something if you don't want to go to the trouble of killing it.

If she came out today the augments would probably all be built in to her kit baseline. Absorb being so passive baseline without the augment would never be something they'd release on a new frame. It also just doesn't make sense to have Chaos and then pop Absorb. Do you want them to shoot each other or you? I'd rather have some kind of survival link combined with MC than using absorb. Having no baseline power strength scaling on MC and then adding it via an augment as the only purpose of the augment would never happen on a new frame (even with the augment it does garbage damage so they could make it baseline and start at a higher value). Being able to provide additional buffs to her MC target and maybe even her party would seem to fit her psychic theme better, but I wouldn't expect them to completely replace existing abilities (which is why I'd suggest adding a secondary function to MC that buffs her MC target at least).  

Making MC more interesting and useful would go a long way in making her more than a one ability wonder that hardly anyone plays. Zephyr and maybe even Atlas could have overtaken her in recently played frequency at this point.

[InappropriateName534099]

also Nyx's health is S#&$ and she's wayy too squishy. She's even Squishier than Excalibur which is not ok. Also I think it's $&*&*#(%&ed how when her Absorb ability goes away she takes damage right after. I think that when you cancel her Absorb ability you should at least get 3 - 4 seconds of invulnerability. 

[vodkacomrade]

Absorb maybe needs to be reworked. I tried to absorb 100k damage using penta. It kills a lv100 elite lancer easily at very closed. When my 280% ranged nyx move out 10m it only deals 1/3 damage. That costs 200more energy. And the basic range is only 10m. that's too short even in narrow maps like hydron. That serious fall off should be changed, or increase the basic range to over 15m.

 

[TKDancer]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:03 AM, NezuHimeSama said:

lol no, rhino can't come close to the tankability of Nyx's 4. And having both that and good CC and support makes her pretty OP.

you again, sigh

 

1st, she has 2 AWFUL abilities, mind control's only decent use is snatching an eximus or ancient healer, psychic bolts is just pure trash

 

her 3rd and imo best ability conflicts with her 4th as it makes it harder to absorb dmg when enemies arent focusing on you

 

absorb is completely worthless on its own due to poor base range and terrible damage, and its only use is for tanking with the augment(tho i remember u insisting people could use it for defense, which is hilarious)

 

she is not OP and is in need of serious work, Wukong does assimilate better than her with Defy, and while he also suffers from a bad kit, i'd take Defy over Assimilate any day

 

and loki's irradiating disarm is strictly better than chaos even with its considerably lower duration simply because of the guaranteed disarm

[NezuHimeSama]

Because being completely invulnerable totally needs "range" and "damage".

Disarm isn't always a positive either. And for that matter, Defy isn't really a good way to be invincible, since it leaves you progressively more vulnerable each death, and Wukong has no other way to tank.

On the other hand, Nyx can calmly sit in the thick of it, taking all of the damage, and shrugging it off with the occasional +25 energy pickup. Even without the damage mitigation of chaos or utility of mind control.

[TKDancer]

4 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Because being completely invulnerable totally needs "range" and "damage".

Disarm isn't always a positive either. And for that matter, Defy isn't really a good way to be invincible, since it leaves you progressively more vulnerable each death, and Wukong has no other way to tank.

On the other hand, Nyx can calmly sit in the thick of it, taking all of the damage, and shrugging it off with the occasional +25 energy pickup. Even without the damage mitigation of chaos or utility of mind control.

turns out absorb has an explosion after absorbing damage, who woulda thunk

 

disarm is strictly positive for loki and much better than just chaos in most situations, simply because melee opponents are a much smaller threat than those armed with guns, only time it could be really  bad is if theres an octavia in your team

 

also defy? not good for not dying? u do know u can refresh it right? Wukong + rage = literally cant die unless u never refresh defy

 

but hey, enjoy being a fanboy

[vodkacomrade]

8 hours ago, TKDancer said:

you again, sigh

 

1st, she has 2 AWFUL abilities, mind control's only decent use is snatching an eximus or ancient healer, psychic bolts is just pure trash

 

her 3rd and imo best ability conflicts with her 4th as it makes it harder to absorb dmg when enemies arent focusing on you

 

absorb is completely worthless on its own due to poor base range and terrible damage, and its only use is for tanking with the augment(tho i remember u insisting people could use it for defense, which is hilarious)

 

she is not OP and is in need of serious work, Wukong does assimilate better than her with Defy, and while he also suffers from a bad kit, i'd take Defy over Assimilate any day

 

and loki's irradiating disarm is strictly better than chaos even with its considerably lower duration simply because of the guaranteed disarm

 

Absorb is not that worthless. As wiki said:

Alternatively, a solo player can utilize self-damage from weapons such as Penta, Stug or Castanas to quickly and dramatically increase Absorb's damage without relying on the passive damage gain. Weapon detonation can still be triggered, enabling Nyx to self-inflict absorb-able damage (ex: Penta).

Similarly, I tried Ogris with Adhesive blast. Just fire, 4, wait for 3s until it explode, then you get at least 15k damage absorbed, press 4 again to send enemies fly. I tried solo 25 waves in Hydron, if theres Trinity it could be longer. The really problem is the 10m poor basic range and serious fall off. If that changed it coulde be powerful as Equinox.

[TKDancer]

34 minutes ago, vodkacomrade said:

The really problem is the 10m poor basic range and serious fall off. If that changed it coulde be powerful as Equinox.

its extremely short range is one of its main issues, the others being  the terrible dmg type, no multiplier and enemy armor scaling

 

i dont have the picture on hand right now, but from some testing against level 100 bombard, 120k absorbed dmg did about 300 dmg, that just aint okay

 

for comparison nova's AMD(which has a 50k absorption cap but has a 4x dmg multiplier) would one shot that same bombard(since alloy armor is weak to radiation) and it would srsly hurt a heavy gunner and kill pretty much all mobs

 

and then we have Mallet which is constantly releasing the absorbed dmg over and over and over and over

 

i say its worthless cause right now im better off just using assimilate to tank and use weapons to kill instead of even considering the existence of the explosion, and then comes the issue of other tank frames that arent slowed to a crawl

Edited March 24, 2018 by TKDancer

[NezuHimeSama]

4 hours ago, TKDancer said:

turns out absorb has an explosion after absorbing damage, who woulda thunk

 

disarm is strictly positive for loki and much better than just chaos in most situations, simply because melee opponents are a much smaller threat than those armed with guns, only time it could be really  bad is if theres an octavia in your team

 

also defy? not good for not dying? u do know u can refresh it right? Wukong + rage = literally cant die unless u never refresh defy

 

but hey, enjoy being a fanboy

Valkyr's Paralysis does damage based on how much shields she has, clearly Valkyr Prime should be a shield tank to do all the damage !!!!

Disarm is not strictly positive for the party. Melee targets are not strictly smaller threats than gun-targets. It actually synergizes very well with octavia. Do you play?!

refresh means downtime, downtime means dead.

Nyx is my 6th most used frame, and I use pretty much all of them. That's not really fanboy tier, nor is it trash tier. Nyx just has her uses, and all you want is to turn her into yet another DPS 4frame because "baw baw i want to play nyx but be a dps 4frame baw baw"

[TKDancer]

13 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Valkyr's Paralysis does damage based on how much shields she has, clearly Valkyr Prime should be a shield tank to do all the damage !!!!

Disarm is not strictly positive for the party. Melee targets are not strictly smaller threats than gun-targets. It actually synergizes very well with octavia. Do you play?!

refresh means downtime, downtime means dead.

Nyx is my 6th most used frame, and I use pretty much all of them. That's not really fanboy tier, nor is it trash tier. Nyx just has her uses, and all you want is to turn her into yet another DPS 4frame because "baw baw i want to play nyx but be a dps 4frame baw baw"

false equivalance, u really like these huh?

 

i said strictly better for loki, and yes they are lmao, a hyeka master or a gunner with a sheev or a  corpus tech with a ... plasma sword i think? are greatly smaller threats because they need to reach u to do dmg, no rockets, no flamethrowers, no supras. as for octavia, machine gun fire charges mallet faster than a few strikes from a sheev

 

refresh means an extremely short cast that can be done in safety, now you're just showing your desperation to prove how nyx is the best of the best

 

constantly acting like an out of date frame is bestest of the best despite the majority of the community agreeing that she needs some work, while also using false info and terrible comparisons to put her up on a pedestal is fanboy-tier

[NezuHimeSama]

It's basically what you're complaining about; an ability that has one use and another property not being useful for it's other property.

false equivalance, u really like these huh?

Down time is down time. Nyx does not have this problem.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

[TKDancer]

1 minute ago, NezuHimeSama said:

It's basically what you're complaining about; an ability that has one use and another property not being useful for it's other property.

false equivalance, u really like these huh?

Down time is down time. Nyx does not have this problem.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

again valkyrs shields are limited to a few hundred without overshields, also it opens enemies for finishers which means insta kill for most of the game's content, insta kill for any non boss with covert lethality

 

also i like that u brought valkyr, who can also go invincible without losing freedom of movement

 

nyx can absorb thousands of dmg to deal it back

 

 

but this is what i got after absorbing over 120k

 

 

i dont think u understand what false equivalence means, but ok?

 

explain how a disarmed hyekka master not a smaller threat than one using their ignis? or a bombard or a tech or any gun wielding enemy

 

instead nyx is slowed to a crawl, no slides or anything, wukong has free movement

 

[NezuHimeSama]

Nyx's bubble provides invulnerability and has a massive effective health pool. Like Paralysis, it has a use, and another attribute that isn't really relevant.

You keep talking about hyekka and bombard as though that's the only enemy in the game.

Nyx has no downtime either.

[TKDancer]

13 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Nyx's bubble provides invulnerability and has a massive effective health pool. Like Paralysis, it has a use, and another attribute that isn't really relevant.

Nyx has no downtime either.

well so does iron skin, and it doesnt limit movement, so does hysteria, so does defy, then we have others that dont limit movement speed or what movements u can do but limit where u can go while providing massive DR like shield of shadows or parasitic link, and then theres some with limits such as shatter shield, AND THEN theres the likes of inaros and trinity

 

and unless u are slow walking through an entire mission, yes she does

 

tl;dr : theres better alternatives, yes the healthpool assimilate has is huge, specially with primed flow, but the loss in movement freedom is too much, and the complete lack of movement without assimilate is unacceptable when the dmg output is as bad as it currently is

 

 

Quote

You keep talking about hyekka and bombard as though that's the only enemy in the game.

 

18 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

explain how a disarmed hyekka master not a smaller threat than one using their ignis? or a bombard or a tech or any gun wielding enemy

Edited March 24, 2018 by TKDancer

[NezuHimeSama]

ignoring the point entirely I see

Yeah no you're just bad. Sorry.

 

General gun-weilding enemies deal frequent S#&$ damage from a distance. Melee enemies rush the target and do high damage per hit with a low number of hits.

Frost bubble, arcane guardian/grace, in general being hit in the back with a high damage attack can oneshot weaker frames without warning

[TKDancer]

2 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

ignoring the point entirely I see

..how? i literally addressed your point???

3 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Yeah no you're just bad. Sorry.

??? im bad for recognizing that a huge slow is bad on a fast paced horde game and that being unable to move at all is even worse???????

 

4 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

General gun-weilding enemies deal frequent S#&$ damage from a distance. Melee enemies rush the target and do high damage per hit with a low number of hits.

since when??? as enemies scale a stray bullet from a lancer is enough to half kill most squishy frames, meanwhile disarmed enemies have to actually get close to you giving you more time to get rid of them, making parkour even more effective as you can keep kiting them indefinitely, also discussion of disarmed enemies came from mentioning loki, the guy who can apply a confusion effect along with the disarm

 

6 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Frost bubble, arcane guardian/grace, in general being hit in the back with a high damage attack can oneshot weaker frames without warning

 

frost bubble? you mean the thing where it absorbs dmg for a few seconds? you do realize thats not important right? and the only important part of that mechanic is the brief moment of invulnerability, if u just want to make the bubble stronger just spam the skill to keep stacking it

 

guardian and grace? if u arent getting hit thats a good thing and f u are getting hit by disarmed enemies maybe bullet jump?

 

you know what else one shots? and at a distance? napalms, bombards, hyeka masters, then we have heavy gunners with their gorgons, corpus techs with their supras, and corpus snipers, all ready to mow down weaker frames in a split second at a distance

[Vaporoxgaming]

16 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

ignoring the point entirely I see

Yeah no you're just bad. Sorry.

 

General gun-weilding enemies deal frequent S#&$ damage from a distance. Melee enemies rush the target and do high damage per hit with a low number of hits.

Frost bubble, arcane guardian/grace, in general being hit in the back with a high damage attack can oneshot weaker frames without warning

Here's a tip: if you're so scared of the pointy-knife scary boogiemen melee enemies, Warframe has this unique mechanic called bullet jumping.  Go ahead and take some time to figure out how it works, and quit playing this game like it's Gears of War for crying out loud.

[NezuHimeSama]

I think you're deliberately misdirecting the conversation to avoid dealing with the holes in your arguments, and it doesn't help your case at all. You don't address any of the points, and just keep on repeating that X or Y enemy is dangerous when not disarmed(usually rarer enemies) or that Nyx is slow when using assimilate(non-issue in the current game)

You haven't addressed that you're demanding a secondary function of a power be made to be the primary function, brushing off the equivalency to another, virtually identical hypothetical situation that is equally ridiculous, you overestimate the viability of other tanking solutions in a variety of situations, underestimate the effective mobility, health pool, and damage mitigation of nyx, ignore the issue of consolidating damage into fewer, harder hits for your primary source of arcane on-damaged triggers, the impact on enemy routing and flow control that creates, ignore the viability of lasting area control, dismiss the benefits of allied eximus auras and eximus aura control, and just seem to be whining that your favorite frame isn't the be-all end-all solution for every situation.

 

Nyx is fine. Git Gud.

[TKDancer]

Just now, NezuHimeSama said:

I think you're deliberately misdirecting the conversation to avoid dealing with the holes in your arguments, and it doesn't help your case at all. You don't address any of the points, and just keep on repeating that X or Y enemy is dangerous when not disarmed(usually rarer enemies) or that Nyx is slow when using assimilate(non-issue in the current game)

i have told you multiple times how nyx is lacking, in this thread and that other one

 

if you are unable to see what im typing that can only mean 1 thing: you dont want to accept that she isnt fine

 

and this disarmed convo? this came about because YOU said that disarm was bad actually, in attempt to put nyx on a pedestal

 

2 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

You haven't addressed that you're demanding a secondary function of a power be made to be the primary function

uhm thats the opposite, im demanding its primary function, that of absorbing damage and dealing it back be made stronger and more viable at higher level content

 

you on the other hand think it should be a tank/defense only skill, which is not what its original function is, its very much a secondary thing, as it even needs an augment to allow any movement at all

 

3 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

you overestimate the viability of other tanking solutions in a variety of situations, underestimate the effective mobility

uhm no,  you underestimate the tankyness and survivability of other frames, and what mobility?

 

4 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

ignore the issue of consolidating damage into fewer, harder hits for your primary source of arcane on-damaged triggers,

not being hit > not triggering an arcane meant to improve survivability

 

as said twice to you: if you are getting hit by disarmed enemies, jump, enemies cant bullet jump, you can

 

5 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

ignore the viability of lasting area control

chaos isnt control exactly, its chaos

 

i like it and think its fine as is

but its not lasting control, its lasting chaos, enemies remain unpredictable, meanwhile other frames have lasting actual control, as in lock enemeis down and prevent them from moving or attacking, which is fine, they dont need to all be equal on this issue, but dont act like nyx is the end all be all of CC

 

7 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

dismiss the benefits of allied eximus auras and eximus aura control

 

i didnt dismiss it

? i literally said the one decent use mind control has is to grab a healer or an eximus, but that doesnt make it a good ability, that makes it a bad ability with a niche  use

 

7 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Nyx is fine. Git Gud.

 

nyx isnt my favorite frame,  not by far, but it doesnt take hundreds of hours of play time to see shes lacking compared to others

 

shes not fine