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Lets fix Zephyr once and for all


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Yes folks, it's me again. It's been a minute but I'm back again to throw my two cents into the frame I love and adore to try to get her to where I feel she should be thematically and mechanically.

 

So, that said let's just jump right on in.

We're going to review her current kit's strengths and weaknesses in detail, and in doing so I'll make my suggestions on where she can be fixed in such a way that can accommodate as many desired play-styles as possible.

So lets start with the bane of all that is joy and happiness for me in regards to her kit: Tailwind. Tailwind as most of you reading this will likely know, is a dual function skill that works one of two ways: press 1 for instant cast to rocket at relatively high speeds in the direction of the cursor, or hold 1 to charge up for a hover that has you sitting in the air for roughly ten seconds.

  • Strengths: High mobility beyond parkour systems that allows for large distance of travel, as well as the ability to hold a particular altitude for a duration .
  • Weaknesses: High duration builds which positively effect the better part of her kit(Turbiulence and Tornado) gimp the usefulness of Tailwind in the overwhelming majority of the games content(sans Plains). Hover offers zero mobility without the use of another action, being melee attacking to get out of the hover or casting tailwind again. I've been told rolling out of hover works as well but I've had mixed results, not sure if bug or not but I digress. High duration Tailwind works well on the plains, I'll admit that much outright as the play space is large and open enough to really house the ability effectively. The same cannot be said about the rest of the games content. High duration builds in tile sets will see you grinding your face into walls till the animation lock expires and the ability finishes its cast or worse, have you diving beak first into the chest of an enemy only to be melee hit and take substantial (if not lethal) damage that you have zero ability to defend against. The augment)Target Fixation) is genuinely impossible to capitalize on even with a max strength build, due to the nature of how tailwind currently functions as it requires you to pass by enemies and thus hit them with the ability to gain the effect which resets upon touching the ground. Meaning essentially it's a waste of a slot to use as you're never able to effectively even build around it.

This, is a mechanical failure in design. The current state of tailwind, whether one likes it above its former incarnation or not, leaves you slamming into walls, doesn't work very well with the vast majority of the game, defenseless against enemies until the duration ends and is only genuinely applicable in 1% of the game(The plains). Don't get me wrong here, the ability isn't trash, but it's a far cry from what it has the potential to be. So, How do we fix this? Simple: we re-arrange the existing mechanics of the current rendition of Tailwind for more cohesion and versatility. Here's what I have in mind.

  • Remove the animation lock on tailwind. This in of itself would at least give more control to the player in regards to when they want the ability to end for the instant cast and prevent players from being at the mercy of corridors and enemies.No more three seconds of high-intensity wall inspections or getting brained by butchers/chargers who aren't here just lookin for a "good time".
  • Tie the distance and rate of travel to power strength instead of duration. This allows for max duration builds that aren't gimping any of her skills. Tying Tailwind to strength also bolsters the effectiveness of Target fixation, when coupled with what else I have in mind.
  • Take the charge mechanic for the hover, and revamp it to a persistent flight mode. The mechanics already exist in no less than three incarnations(Tailwind itself, razorwing, and archwing) so it's not that much of a switch as is. Limit the initial "flight speed" to a happy medium between the jog speed(moving forward without pressing sprint) and sprint speed. This allows for full control of flight without running the risk of slamming into things in narrow hallways. so for arguments sake a stock non thrust flight speed of say 1.05, and pressing sprint will give you the same speed as if you used the ability for its instant cast.
  • Holding aim engages the hover mode. This allows for controller users to not be kicked to the metaphorical curb in terms of mapping. It also offers point break control for when you want to go from breakneck speeds to stopping on a dime for whatever reason. Pressing jump disengages the flight mode and normal warframe travel can be resumed.
  • Make Divebomb be triggered on collision of enemy contact or hard collision. What I mean by this is if you're for example flying down a hallway with zero obstructions, and you glance off a wall divebomb is not triggered and you just kinda skitter alongside the wall until you rectify your vector(direction of flight). If you fly straight at the wall however, the AoE of divebomb is then triggered. Collision with enemies would also trigger the effect, however not impede the flight. This would essentially make Tailwind a highly mobile form of cc as well as allow for rapid tactical positioning.
  • Edit: Instead of using aim to initiate glide, tapping s should engage hover and tapping s again should resume flight courtesy of @Azamagon

In summary: This rendition of Tailwind offers greater cohesion, control, mobility and crowd control without gimping the remainder of your kit in relation to the majority of the games content. It also allows for one to now effectively build around the augment while simultaneously turning Zephyr into an airborne bulldozer without taking an arm and leg to conjure up new systems to make it possible. It's mechanics that already exist in the kit as it currently is, just needs to be re-aligned.

Air burst: Second ability of the kit that centers around strong cc for cheap casts that allow for Zephyr to remove enemies from her faze to avoid melee damage.

  • Strengths: Instant cast, wide AoE cc that forces knockdown of enemies that comes cheap and even cheaper in the air. It's great as a preemptive or reactive skill for halting enemy advancement or attacks.
  • Weaknesses: lack of outright damage, sometimes triggers prematurely due to surface clipping or (rarely) goes straight through surfaces and fails to trigger at all.

Honestly not much to say about this ability from my end as it functions (fairly) well for what a cc frame should be should be using. Personally I feel it could do a bit more to possibly force a slash proc, but I'm honestly not sure and it's up for debate.

Turbulence: The "I don't care about guns shooting at me but plz dun hit meh wit yo melee" ability. Zephyrs immensely enjoyable defensive ability with a run speed increasing augment to boot.

  • Strengths: Do you find yourself being shot in the face? Detron crewman got'cha down? Is that corrupted heavy gunner laying down a literal wall of bullets preventing you from safely murdering the ever living hell out of her? WELL LOOK NO FURTHER! What you need is TURBULENCE: THE GUN DENIER! Turbulence is effectively perfect in that it redirects projectiles away from Zephyr and has a very strong augment to accompany it(Jet Stream) for the purposes of evasion and/or jumping into the thick of the fight.
  • Weaknesses: Melee and lor range builds. Yup, that's it. oh and AoE from enemies but that's player positioning more so than a fault on the ability itself in my opinion.

There really isn't much to change or suggest changing here without risking a lynch mob, so I'll refrain from what amounts to a useless movement and just agree that the ability is fine as is.

 

Tornado: Summoning a maelstrom of nasty is great as an "oh snap" button, and even more so now that it can be recast on demand alongside the damage mechanic that has been incorporated. Tornado, out of all the abilities in the kit that could use some tweaking needs the least amount I believe, but tweaking it needs none the less.

  • Strengths: Hilarious crowd control, recastable, and monster levels of damage potential.
  • Weaknesses: The ability has to be babysat in order to make the most out of it as it tracks to your cursor, the tornadoes hold enemies only so/so, and the wandering is still problematic to a slight degree in relation to terrain that isn't the plains.

How we fix: We make Tornado exactly as its name says: A tornado.Singular. One very large, stationary tornado with a massive draw radius that houses enemies within the funnel instead of casting them aloft on the outer rim of the ability to be dumped unceremoniously onto the dirt. This removes the need to monitor the ability, as well as having roving twisters going all over hell and high water looking for a baddy to blow around. Funnel clouds can be retrofitted to function as the tornado ability currently functions, with the ability to utilize air burst in tandem with tornado as it also currently does. What this means is that without funnel clouds on your loadout casting tornado will give you a massive singular tornado that holds enemies inside it, but with funnel clouds you get the ability as it currently functions with the option to spam air burst into it to merge them into the one gigantic tornado. Alternatively, it could be made so it's the other way around and the singular massive tornado be an augment? Either or in all honesty.

 

So, in closing what we have presented before you is a more solid, cohesive skill set that fits the theme with mechanics that match. You get a wind themed frame that's covered in flight surfaces(even has an empennage for a cod piece) able to actually dominate the skies and fulfill her role better than ever before. She becomes more versatile, and allows for multiple styles of play that doesn't remove anything from anyone, but instead gives to all.

All feedback is welcome, but keep it civil, and keep it logical. Remember: I don't like is not an acceptable argument in relation to the suggestion of how the frames issues are remedied by my plan. If you don't like it, that's completely fine. Just remember when posting a disagreement to ask yourself "how does this rework not fix her current and already existing issues".

Edited by ObviousLee
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il y a 13 minutes, ObviousLee a dit :

I've been waiting for years. She's already got the table so no reason at all to not bring this up. 

And we will wait for more years since DE focuses all resources on Venus landscape which will be broken just as Plains of Eidolon.

I agree Zephyr needs proper rework, she's one of my favourite frames and I enjoy playing her. Unfortunately, when I see reworked Dark Sectors from stream, I want to cry since they had years to make them good. If that's example of how reworks will look for everything then it's better to keep things as they are. Same goes for raids, once we get them back, they will be ruined, no longer as enjoyable as before.

I fear that if Zephyr will get proper rework we want, she will be way worse than she is now. Past experience, we all know how reworks messed up some things already.

Edited by CoreXCZ
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Just now, CoreXCZ said:

And we will wait for more years since DE focuses all resources on Venus landscape which will be broken just as Plains of Eidolon.

I agree Zephyr needs proper rework, she's one of my favourite frames and I enjoy playing her. Unfortunately, when I see reworked Dark Sectors from stream, I want to cry since they had years to make them good. If that's example of how reworks will look for everything then it's better to keep things as they are. Same goes for raids, once we get them back, they will be ruined, no longer as enjoyable as before.

I fear that if Zephyr will get proper rework we want, she will be way worse than she is now. Past experience, we all know how reworks messed up some thing already.

Thus the reasoning to be on the developers case about what issues are prevalent and how best to fix them with our experiences on them. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if those of us who take issue with the current state of affairs of her kit just sit by silently while people are claiming it to be amazing, which direction do you think the developers will take? So until such time as a developer says "we're happy with how she is and we're not changing her" I shall continue being an overly annoying thorn in their side.

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Hm, let's see...

Provides true flight without stepping on Titania's exalted state or necessarily requiring new mechanics: Check

Addresses the Tornado issue without severely altering the spirit of the ability: Check

Maintains the spirit of the frame: Check

Yup, meets my criteria for a decent Zephyr rework concept. You have my support, for whatever it's worth. I question whether keeping Hover Mode a part of the ability is necessary within this concept, but I also don't have any issue with it staying.

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1 minute ago, Archeyef said:

Hm, let's see...

Provides true flight without stepping on Titania's exalted state or necessarily requiring new mechanics: Check

Addresses the Tornado issue without severely altering the spirit of the ability: Check

Maintains the spirit of the frame: Check

Yup, meets my criteria for a decent Zephyr rework concept. You have my support, for whatever it's worth. I question whether keeping Hover Mode a part of the ability is necessary within this concept, but I also don't have any issue with it staying.

Thank you for taking the time to read through my post, I very much appreciate it. As far as the hover, I can see some merit to it but as it currently sits within the kit I personally find it useless. So I figured why not find a way to take something useless and make it useful and this is what I came up with.

That being said, what suggestion would you have for the hover mechanic if you had a say in the matter? Would you remove it, tweak it? The more active a discussion on here that we can get the better the outcome will be I feel.

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1 hour ago, CoreXCZ said:

Ehm, ehm, she will get proper rework one day so just sit down and wait.

And ObviousLee is voicing what he feels should be done for said rework. You do that BEFORE the rework hits.

48 minutes ago, CoreXCZ said:

And we will wait for more years since DE focuses all resources on Venus landscape which will be broken just as Plains of Eidolon.

I agree Zephyr needs proper rework, she's one of my favourite frames and I enjoy playing her. Unfortunately, when I see reworked Dark Sectors from stream, I want to cry since they had years to make them good. If that's example of how reworks will look for everything then it's better to keep things as they are. Same goes for raids, once we get them back, they will be ruined, no longer as enjoyable as before.

I fear that if Zephyr will get proper rework we want, she will be way worse than she is now. Past experience, we all know how reworks messed up some things already.

First off, DE isn't dedicating everyone to Venus, they said this themselves. They have a number of the team working on it and they began working on it before they even launched PoE. Dark Sectors as competitive gameplay should be moved to conclave, not PVE, so go lobby for a new clan-based PvP gamemode there instead of hoping for the mega-alliance-dominated mess that was dark sectors to return. Raids in Warframe were not raids. One person was all that was needed for the critical work in LoR, and 2 were for JV. Lor extras were paperweights, JV extras were soccer players. LoR and JV were no longer filling the role they were intended for and we are all better off without until they get remade. They broke with every single mahor release anyways and Id rather the team work on better content rather than hacked-in mechanics that were counterproductive to the goal of fast gunplay what Warframe strives for.

We also know how reworks fix things remarkably. Look at the Frost rework. Since his rework he is the most well-rounded frame in the game by most people's standards. Excalibur is actually melee based as he was supposed to be. Ash can do more than press-4-for-slideshow finally. Beam weapons are not trashbin-bound MR fodder anymore and Phage can live again. Plenty more reworks stand alongside those strong on their own right and better than what we had, solving the problems that covered them before. Zephyr's latest attempt at a rework did improve a few of her faults, but she still has distinct glaring issues, most notably those animation locks and her functional skillset directly working against her entire theme.

As for the rework...

Always have my support since We are always talking on discord about ideas for refining her kit. Liking the adjustments you made since last time.

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1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

Thank you for taking the time to read through my post, I very much appreciate it. As far as the hover, I can see some merit to it but as it currently sits within the kit I personally find it useless. So I figured why not find a way to take something useless and make it useful and this is what I came up with.

That being said, what suggestion would you have for the hover mechanic if you had a say in the matter? Would you remove it, tweak it? The more active a discussion on here that we can get the better the outcome will be I feel.

Hm... Well, it depends on whether Zephyr gets flight or not. If Zephyr doesn't get flight, I would leave it in, since it's an optional feature of the ability. But if Zephyr does get her wings, then I think it should be removed because at that point, it really doesn't add much unless you really want to speedrun. It just adds more complexity to an increasingly complex ability. I tend to follow a doctrine of simple elements, complex interactions. Not to mention, frames already slow down when aiming, so this just seems superfluous no matter what. I suppose that comes down to how "slippery" archwing-aiming is.

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Just now, Archeyef said:

Hm... Well, it depends on whether Zephyr gets flight or not. If Zephyr doesn't get flight, I would leave it in, since it's an optional feature of the ability. But if Zephyr does get her wings, then I think it should be removed because at that point, it really doesn't add much unless you really want to speedrun. It just adds more complexity to an increasingly complex ability. I tend to follow a doctrine of simple elements, complex interactions. Not to mention, frames already slow down when aiming, so this just seems superfluous no matter what. I suppose that comes down to how "slippery" archwing-aiming is.

Well considering the stock planned flight speed I see your point. Also taking into account how fast she moves during the cast of tailwind any aiming would have to be done in what effectively amounts to a strafing run huh.

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1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

Well considering the stock planned flight speed I see your point. Also taking into account how fast she moves during the cast of tailwind any aiming would have to be done in what effectively amounts to a strafing run huh.

Perhaps Airbust could double up as an air brake. Cast Airburst for a hard-stop.

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8 minutes ago, Archeyef said:

Perhaps Airbust could double up as an air brake. Cast Airburst for a hard-stop.

as in a complete momentum stopper in contrast to the momentum still carrying over from the flight of tailwind?

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Just now, ObviousLee said:

as in a complete momentum stopper in contrast to the momentum still carrying over from the flight of tailwind?

Yeah, that's the idea. An "equal and opposite force" kind of deal.

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Just now, Archeyef said:

Yeah, that's the idea. An "equal and opposite force" kind of deal.

that....that could look REALLY good, as well as be a fantastic function for inertial cancelling. Glad you stopped by on my thread!

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I'm fully on board with your the tailwind edits except in the case of divebomb. I'd rather it was an alternate use of airburst while you are using tailwind. Divebomb works much better when you don't have to worry about aiming it. If there was a soluti-

Scratch that.

Why can't we have her just divebomb if she uses melee slam from high enough. Just take all the 'where is my cursor' finagling out of the equation, please. It's already questionable as to whether divebomb is actually a step up from the regular melee slam. Maybe if it had actually been changed, but it hasn't. The only difference between now and before is how you activate it. The ability never impressed, even when fully modded for. Would it really be that far out of power budget to make it a height dependent passive?

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Removing the Animation lock on her tailwind is needed as waiting for animations will often times get you killed in high level missions. Removing the cooldown between tailwinds would be beneficial too. I really don't think you want a persistent flight mode. Thematically she is more of jet with a bird theme, than she is a bird with a jet theme, and Titania's flight already feels too unresponsive, though it would feel incredibly worse if she didn't have her bullet attractors floating around her. That's also a whole new set of flight animations they would have to make for zephyr and zephyr prime assuming they use different assets for both models. Your ideas are fantastic from a design perspective, but from a coders perspective, from an animators perspective these changes would take much work. That is my only criticism, I believe that you can find a redesign which fits not just within the designers realm, but within the realm of the animator as well as the coder while still keeping Zephyr what she is and increasing the enjoyment players get out of her when they play her.

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For the most part, I agreed. Lemme discuss some points with you, starting with the quick points first:

Turbulence:
Yeah, I don't really see the need to do anything to this ability either. It's good.

Air Burst:
All I'd suggest is for that the ragdolling effect on the enemies to be in towards the centre of the ability, rather than ragdolling them out from the centre. CC is great and all, but grouping enemies up while doing so is even better. Especially now when we lost the rather neat Divebomb Vortex augment :(

Tornado:
One big tornado, four smaller tornadoes, eh, I honestly do not mind how many they are, but I'd like to see a few other things changed:
1) If an enemy is dead inside the Tornado -> TOSS IT OUT! And don't let tornadoes pick up other dead enemies. It's annoying when you don't know wether an enemy is still alive, but ragdolled inside, or if it's tagging along while dead.
2) Don't take away the IPS damage when it gets converted with elemental damage, let the elemental damage simply be a BONUS to the base physical effects. Not super-important, but I feel it'd be nicer this way *shrugs*.

Now, onto the big issue. Tailwind:
Let me start by saying that I fully agreed with removing the animation lock. This would indeed solve a LOT of issues with it.
EDIT: If we could cancel its momentum by rolling/dodging, even better!

However, most of the other things suggested, I'm not sure I can fully agreed with:
* Power Strength = Flight speed. I'm unsure on this, but it DOES make some sense I guess? Imo, I'd rather have the speeds related to something entirely different, like your sprintspeed or parkourspeed, rather than to your regular Ability stats. I dunno, I can't really decide what to vote for here.
* In your suggestion, you have added continuous flight, which would fit wonderfully for both PoE and non-PoE areas, no doubt.
* Hover being triggered by aimgliding. I dislike this, but the severity of my dislike depends on the following question:
Is it only functional during the continuous flight mode, or just in general after casting Tailwind?
If it's only functional during the continuous flight mode: I could live with it, even if I feel it removes a potential synergy (Flying and aimglide could compliment one another so well) If it is functional during any time after casting Tailwind: VERY strongly disagreed. Very often, I use aimglide after doing a dash, as the dash and aimglide are functions that compliment and combine really well.

I'd rather suggest, in your version, that the Hover mode is triggered by moving BACKWARDS during the contiuous flight. Think about it; You move forward, but pull backwards too = You stay still! It's a trigger from a button which would otherwise do NOTHING, leaving you still able to combine aimglide freely with its wonderful mobility-synergy! It could even be implemented as a decelerate/accelerate function of the continuous flight (i.e. forward accelerates, while backwards decelerates), but that's not really necessary either.

* Divebomb -> This is the only tricky part to add back to her kit without making it clunky in one way or another. While I appreciate your suggestion (i.e. trigger the shockwave whenever you collide with something in a clear manner), and wouldn't mind it otherwise being removed, it IS a rather potentially cool move (and the sound is awesome!), thus I have several ideas to try and allow us to trigger the current Divebomb, albeit they are still mildly clunky in one way or another:

1) Holdcast Airburst / Turbulence. These skills currently have no holdfunction, and depending on the skill the Divebomb is attached to (which then could alter its energycost), the more you could buff Divebomb's damage too!

2) Skip the continuous flight-idea of Tailwind (considering removing the animation-lock and potentially tieing its speed to sprintspeed would make it more non-PoE-friendly anyway), instead, I'd suggest to arrange Tailwind like this:
* Tap -> Dash in the direction of aim, no change there.
* Hold -> Break your momentum very quickly and engage in hovermode. While hovering, you'll see a circular patch on the ground, which indicates where your Divebomb AoE will be. Divebomb's direction can be aimed further forward than just straight down, but not more than an angle of 40-ish degrees or so (you can still aim at an angle further away than that, but the patch will not move further forward than its max range).
Now, what you do next determines your action:
1) Let go of the tailwind button = Divebomb
2) Jump / bulletjump / roll / melee = Do the corresponding action, while also disengaging from the hover (and thus cancelling your potential Divebomb too). Note; Using jump to cancel the hover could potentially simply cancel the hover, without jumping at all (to not waste potential doublejumps).

The intention of this version is that it lets you use both the hover-function and Divebomb in a more controlled and still rather swift manner, giving you time to aim your Divebomb, allowing Divebomb from wider angles, all while still being part of Tailwind.
Note that the circular aiming patch could also be attached to Divebomb in the "holdcast Airburst/Turbulence"-version too

Now, for the actual Divebomb itself, it needs vast improvements; Better heightscaling, greater radius (radius scaling a bit with height too, with a cap on the bonus?), better damagetype (finisher?), among other things.

 

Edited by Azamagon
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Impressive, but...

While I agree with most of these (I mean, you know my preferences), I don't think it's going to be a matter of 'squeeky wheel' on this one now.

They've said that they're making more adjustments soon on the DevStream, but there's not likely going to be a major change to behaviour. We may get things like a more active Hover, rather than having to squat on the ground and fart out whatever gas the hover uses, but I just don't think that even if all of us agreed and wanted it we'd get an active flight mode now. Tornado will remain as multiple funnels, because that's what DEScott wants it to be, not because it would be better or worse any other way, and all we can realistically hope for is better movement, spawning and AI on the funnels so we don't have to babysit the entire time.

Loving the enthusiasm, but hating the sinking feeling that this amount of asked-for change will simply cause DE to skip the entire lot.

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6 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

rather than having to squat on the ground and fart out whatever gas the hover uses

Excuse me while I change my energy color to a sickly green...

 

Anyways, i agree that we need to focus on changes that would require less work and stick a bit closer to what we have. 

Power strength to affect Tailwind's speed and distance? I'm a bit on the fence about it. I think if there were more incentive to build power strength I could live with it. If Tailwind could actually do respectable damage, I could manage, but right now I have zero reason to build power strength on my Zephyr (I don't use jet stream) so I focus on range and duration while negating strength altogether. I think Tailwind/Divebomb should be capable of dealing some damage regardless (enemies are being hit by a freaking jet!), but I think there are better options for controlling distance/speed of Tailwind.

Perhaps we could make use out of the Charging mechanic that Tailwind has! Let Zephyr move freely while charging rather than forcing her to stay stationary, with much shorter charging time while airborne. Charging will increase the distance/speed of Tailwind the further it's charged. This way, regardless of how much duration/range/power strength/ whatever that Zephyr has, she can always get a respectable distance from Tailwind.

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I'm heading to an all day orientation for the new job so I'll be out till around seven or eight pm California time. I'll respond to you all when I get home(if I have the energy) so as to give each of your posts the attention they deserve. 

Edited by ObviousLee
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vor 11 Stunden schrieb ObviousLee:

Yes folks, it's me again. It's been a minute but I'm back again to throw my two cents into the frame I love and adore to try to get her to where I feel she should be thematically and mechanically.

 

So, that said let's just jump right on in.

We're going to review her current kit's strengths and weaknesses in detail, and in doing so I'll make my suggestions on where she can be fixed in such a way that can accommodate as many desired play-styles as possible.

So lets start with the bane of all that is joy and happiness for me in regards to her kit: Tailwind. Tailwind as most of you reading this will likely know, is a dual function skill that works one of two ways: press 1 for instant cast to rocket at relatively high speeds in the direction of the cursor, or hold 1 to charge up for a hover that has you sitting in the air for roughly ten seconds.

  • Strengths: High mobility beyond parkour systems that allows for large distance of travel, as well as the ability to hold a particular altitude for a duration .
  • Weaknesses: High duration builds which positively effect the better part of her kit(Turbiulence and Tornado) gimp the usefulness of Tailwind in the overwhelming majority of the games content(sans Plains). Hover offers zero mobility without the use of another action, being melee attacking to get out of the hover or casting tailwind again. I've been told rolling out of hover works as well but I've had mixed results, not sure if bug or not but I digress. High duration Tailwind works well on the plains, I'll admit that much outright as the play space is large and open enough to really house the ability effectively. The same cannot be said about the rest of the games content. High duration builds in tile sets will see you grinding your face into walls till the animation lock expires and the ability finishes its cast or worse, have you diving beak first into the chest of an enemy only to be melee hit and take substantial (if not lethal) damage that you have zero ability to defend against. The augment)Target Fixation) is genuinely impossible to capitalize on even with a max strength build, due to the nature of how tailwind currently functions as it requires you to pass by enemies and thus hit them with the ability to gain the effect which resets upon touching the ground. Meaning essentially it's a waste of a slot to use as you're never able to effectively even build around it.

This, is a mechanical failure in design. The current state of tailwind, whether one likes it above its former incarnation or not, leaves you slamming into walls, doesn't work very well with the vast majority of the game, defenseless against enemies until the duration ends and is only genuinely applicable in 1% of the game(The plains). Don't get me wrong here, the ability isn't trash, but it's a far cry from what it has the potential to be. So, How do we fix this? Simple: we re-arrange the existing mechanics of the current rendition of Tailwind for more cohesion and versatility. Here's what I have in mind.

  • Remove the animation lock on tailwind. This in of itself would at least give more control to the player in regards to when they want the ability to end for the instant cast and prevent players from being at the mercy of corridors and enemies.No more three seconds of high-intensity wall inspections or getting brained by butchers/chargers who aren't here just lookin for a "good time".
  • Tie the distance and rate of travel to power strength instead of duration. This allows for max duration builds that aren't gimping any of her skills. Tying Tailwind to strength also bolsters the effectiveness of Target fixation, when coupled with what else I have in mind.
  • Take the charge mechanic for the hover, and revamp it to a persistent flight mode. The mechanics already exist in no less than three incarnations(Tailwind itself, razorwing, and archwing) so it's not that much of a switch as is. Limit the initial "flight speed" to a happy medium between the jog speed(moving forward without pressing sprint) and sprint speed. This allows for full control of flight without running the risk of slamming into things in narrow hallways. so for arguments sake a stock non thrust flight speed of say 1.05, and pressing sprint will give you the same speed as if you used the ability for its instant cast.
  • Holding aim engages the hover mode. This allows for controller users to not be kicked to the metaphorical curb in terms of mapping. It also offers point break control for when you want to go from breakneck speeds to stopping on a dime for whatever reason. Pressing jump disengages the flight mode and normal warframe travel can be resumed.
  • Make Divebomb be triggered on collision of enemy contact or hard collision. What I mean by this is if you're for example flying down a hallway with zero obstructions, and you glance off a wall divebomb is not triggered and you just kinda skitter alongside the wall until you rectify your vector(direction of flight). If you fly straight at the wall however, the AoE of divebomb is then triggered. Collision with enemies would also trigger the effect, however not impede the flight. This would essentially make Tailwind a highly mobile form of cc as well as allow for rapid tactical positioning.

In summary: This rendition of Tailwind offers greater cohesion, control, mobility and crowd control without gimping the remainder of your kit in relation to the majority of the games content. It also allows for one to now effectively build around the augment while simultaneously turning Zephyr into an airborne bulldozer without taking an arm and leg to conjure up new systems to make it possible. It's mechanics that already exist in the kit as it currently is, just needs to be re-aligned.

Air burst: Second ability of the kit that centers around strong cc for cheap casts that allow for Zephyr to remove enemies from her faze to avoid melee damage.

  • Strengths: Instant cast, wide AoE cc that forces knockdown of enemies that comes cheap and even cheaper in the air. It's great as a preemptive or reactive skill for halting enemy advancement or attacks.
  • Weaknesses: lack of outright damage, sometimes triggers prematurely due to surface clipping or (rarely) goes straight through surfaces and fails to trigger at all.

Honestly not much to say about this ability from my end as it functions (fairly) well for what a cc frame should be should be using. Personally I feel it could do a bit more to possibly force a slash proc, but I'm honestly not sure and it's up for debate.

Turbulence: The "I don't care about guns shooting at me but plz dun hit meh wit yo melee" ability. Zephyrs immensely enjoyable defensive ability with a run speed increasing augment to boot.

  • Strengths: Do you find yourself being shot in the face? Detron crewman got'cha down? Is that corrupted heavy gunner laying down a literal wall of bullets preventing you from safely murdering the ever living hell out of her? WELL LOOK NO FURTHER! What you need is TURBULENCE: THE GUN DENIER! Turbulence is effectively perfect in that it redirects projectiles away from Zephyr and has a very strong augment to accompany it(Jet Stream) for the purposes of evasion and/or jumping into the thick of the fight.
  • Weaknesses: Melee and lor range builds. Yup, that's it. oh and AoE from enemies but that's player positioning more so than a fault on the ability itself in my opinion.

There really isn't much to change or suggest changing here without risking a lynch mob, so I'll refrain from what amounts to a useless movement and just agree that the ability is fine as is.

 

Tornado: Summoning a maelstrom of nasty is great as an "oh snap" button, and even more so now that it can be recast on demand alongside the damage mechanic that has been incorporated. Tornado, out of all the abilities in the kit that could use some tweaking needs the least amount I believe, but tweaking it needs none the less.

  • Strengths: Hilarious crowd control, recastable, and monster levels of damage potential.
  • Weaknesses: The ability has to be babysat in order to make the most out of it as it tracks to your cursor, the tornadoes hold enemies only so/so, and the wandering is still problematic to a slight degree in relation to terrain that isn't the plains.

How we fix: We make Tornado exactly as its name says: A tornado.Singular. One very large, stationary tornado with a massive draw radius that houses enemies within the funnel instead of casting them aloft on the outer rim of the ability to be dumped unceremoniously onto the dirt. This removes the need to monitor the ability, as well as having roving twisters going all over hell and high water looking for a baddy to blow around. Funnel clouds can be retrofitted to function as the tornado ability currently functions, with the ability to utilize air burst in tandem with tornado as it also currently does. What this means is that without funnel clouds on your loadout casting tornado will give you a massive singular tornado that holds enemies inside it, but with funnel clouds you get the ability as it currently functions with the option to spam air burst into it to merge them into the one gigantic tornado. Alternatively, it could be made so it's the other way around and the singular massive tornado be an augment? Either or in all honesty.

 

So, in closing what we have presented before you is a more solid, cohesive skill set that fits the theme with mechanics that match. You get a wind themed frame that's covered in flight surfaces(even has an empennage for a cod piece) able to actually dominate the skies and fulfill her role better than ever before. She becomes more versatile, and allows for multiple styles of play that doesn't remove anything from anyone, but instead gives to all.

All feedback is welcome, but keep it civil, and keep it logical. Remember: I don't like is not an acceptable argument in relation to the suggestion of how the frames issues are remedied by my plan. If you don't like it, that's completely fine. Just remember when posting a disagreement to ask yourself "how does this rework not fix her current and already existing issues".

Hello,

thumbs up from me ! A very well written and detailed summary about changes that should have been made BEFORE releasing this Warframe as a Prime version.

I like your ideas and by the way you write, i can see that you really put a lot of thought into those proposed changes.

 

 

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Zephyr just got her Prime yesterday which means that if this was a Burger Shop, the recipe of this sandwich is already considered good to be sold and is on the menu.

I dont like the rework as well, but I guess there is a chance that it will take years now. 

 

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vor 24 Minuten schrieb (PS4)lhbuch:

Zephyr just got her Prime yesterday which means that if this was a Burger Shop, the recipe of this sandwich is already considered good to be sold and is on the menu.

I dont like the rework as well, but I guess there is a chance that it will take years now. 

 

I guess that also depends on how vocal we as a comnunity are. If more People raise valid concerns about the Rework and the current state of Zephyr as a valiable Warframe, it will surely influence the decision of a lot of Players who did not decide yet if they want to spend Money on this Prime Access or not. And i am sure when it comes to this, DE will surely have open ears.

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