Dev Workshop: Endless Kuva Survival & Kuva Guardian Changes!

[Sean]

1 hour ago, Tangent-Valley said:

 

 

Except it CAN be balanced if it is done well.

The fact that there's nothing in the game that even attempts to reward you for pushing to the more difficult enemies just negates any reason for there being any "endless" mode at all. Let's just cap everything then at round 30(/min) as there's currently no point to even bothering without any incentive to do so.

[Hawk197]

2 hours ago, Tangent-Valley said:

 

Alternative or not... Are you willing to party with non-Meta frames for 20 to 30 minutes on Kuva? Are you willing to roll with a Titania, Zephyr, Ash, and Mag? Frames that, while are amazing for normal missions, have little to no crowd control? In likelyhood, you're running a normal Meta team. Nekros/Hydroid/Atlas, Frost/Gara/Limbo, Nova. To me, that gets BORING. See, you need a Nekros, Hydroid, or Atlas to help increase the chances of Life Support Capsules, so you don't have to use the Life Support Towers for air and waste your opportunity at Kuva. In Excavations, it's safer to run without a point defender because if the Excavator gets destroyed, no big deal because we still get Cryotic rewarded based on time active, AND there's no secondary danger either, like running out of air. Also, Excavators are more worthwhile to run longer because of what I just said. Yes, the enemy scaling works the same, but because I'm always going to get Cryotic, I know it's safer to run for longer.

 

Sorry, but DE NEEDS to do something to Kuva Endless. Yes, it is a permanent node we can visit at any time, but honestly that doesn't really matter that much. If each mission takes 5 miniutes, that's 30 minutes, so I've 30 minutes to kill. Kela just had a Siphon, so I need to farm Judgment. Ambulas just had a Flood, so I need to farm Beacons. See my point? I can be doing over things while I wait for that 30 minutes to pass, things that may help me get back to another Siphon or Flood in the future. But even IF I don't need to farm these things, I can still farm Plains stuff like Wisps or Gems, I can still farm Clan stuff like Samples or Pigments, I can still farm Void stuff like Forma or Ducats.

[Mikaeo]

8 hours ago, Tangent-Valley said:

All I can say is Bravo to you, DE. Lots of people in this forum THINK they want scaling Kuva reward on the Survival node, but anyone who's been around the block (like, oh I don't know, The actual Developers) would know that doing this would only create an ultra "Meta Build 2 hour run or GTFO!" atmosphere around the whole thing and create toxicity in the Riven/Kuva player-base.

The Kuva Survival is a pretty darn perfect Alternative (you wouldn't believe how many people refuse to read that word in the Developer explanations and posts) and in-between method for Kuva farming, being on average a little more than Regular Siphons but a little less than Flood Siphons. I enjoy hoping in two or three missions before or after a Flood, and then rolling 10+ Rolled Rivens quite a few times with my hour long farm. Feels better to me than the normal Siphons, but I suppose that also depends on the crowd you farm with or the Public squad you get thrown in with.

 

Again, Bravo to you, DE, for not succumbing to the Forum madness and making the Kuva rewards scale, and keeping this brand new node an enjoyable experience for the, as some on the forum might call us, "filthy casuals who are ruining the game" *pfft*.

(And for those of you thinking it, no. There's no sarcasm here. This is legit praise to DE for NOT giving a tiny part of the player-base what they want, no matter how loud they try to scream it.)

The issue is that they are selling it as an endless mission. An endless mission should not be designed to only be worth 30 minutes of it. Currently there is not a high enough reward in regards to the extra difficulty associated with going long in this survival. Why would I do an hour of Kuva survival, fight Kuva Flood or higher enemies, but not get equivalent payouts? I don't want it to be extreme scaling, but there needs to be something changed. Yes, they said it's an alternative to siphons and floods, but that doesn't mean that it needs to be some sort of crappy middle ground. If they're gonna call it endless, then they need to give a reason to run it like an endless mission. Plenty of the player base is capable of going an hour let's say. So please, at least make it scale until that point. Endless scaling would probably be bad, but S#&$ man, we need something more.

[0_The_F00l]

So after farming almost 100K kuva in the kuva fortress i would like to note a few points as below:

1) Its is definitely more convenient (not necessarily more efficient) than regular siphon missions and gives roughly the same Kuva for the time invested (4.5 minutes for 600 Kuva),

2) The lack of kuva scaling is kinda mixed bag for me , on one hand i can solo for 5, 10 or 20 minutes with no effective loss of progress but i have no incentive for staying for longer than that either,

3) 20 minutes and out is the most effective as of now - which is usually 2800 to 3000 Kuva (before booster or Kavat charm boost) depending on how quickly the squad got to the extractor for a good run (there is no possibility to get more than this value due to the way the capsules spawn i.e. 15 capsules within 20 minutes).

4) Having a smeeta kavat can wildly increase the total Kuva , if the charm boost hits at the right time - having a Smeeta Kavat is a no brainer.

5) Kuva Flood is still the faster way to get Kuva (1.2K Kuva in 4.5 Minutes)

Suggestions:

1) occasional "rare" extractor type that gives double kuva (or even 1.5 times), can either be dependent on the catalyst drop (infused catalyst) or " high concentration" Tile condition of some sort (Lotus says there is Kuva Mist here).

2) Kuva champion enemy spawn chance after rotation C with special drops (there are so many rare mods - take your pick on reward type) - will give me incentive to stay longer,

[fluffysnowcap]

On 07/04/2018 at 9:48 PM, Tangent-Valley said:

All I can say is Bravo to you, DE. Lots of people in this forum THINK they want scaling Kuva reward on the Survival node, but anyone who's been around the block (like, oh I don't know, The actual Developers) would know that doing this would only create an ultra "Meta Build 2 hour run or GTFO!" atmosphere around the whole thing and create toxicity in the Riven/Kuva player-base.

The Kuva Survival is a pretty darn perfect Alternative (you wouldn't believe how many people refuse to read that word in the Developer explanations and posts) and in-between method for Kuva farming, being on average a little more than Regular Siphons but a little less than Flood Siphons. I enjoy hoping in two or three missions before or after a Flood, and then rolling 10+ Rolled Rivens quite a few times with my hour long farm. Feels better to me than the normal Siphons, but I suppose that also depends on the crowd you farm with or the Public squad you get thrown in with.

 

Again, Bravo to you, DE, for not succumbing to the Forum madness and making the Kuva rewards scale, and keeping this brand new node an enjoyable experience for the, as some on the forum might call us, "filthy casuals who are ruining the game" *pfft*.

(And for those of you thinking it, no. There's no sarcasm here. This is legit praise to DE for NOT giving a tiny part of the player-base what they want, no matter how loud they try to scream it.)

you what mate!? I earn more from syphans. This mode is a disappointment at most, and come on survival has barely been touched since update 11. Is it too much to ask for a void fissure style scaling to be applied to all endless missions? As with the last patch and the way how members the community like you has been acting on the form, endless missions appear to be at risk of having a end added to them after a single C rotation.

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

On 4/7/2018 at 4:48 PM, Tangent-Valley said:

All I can say is Bravo to you, DE. Lots of people in this forum THINK they want scaling Kuva reward on the Survival node, but anyone who's been around the block (like, oh I don't know, The actual Developers) would know that doing this would only create an ultra "Meta Build 2 hour run or GTFO!" atmosphere around the whole thing and create toxicity in the Riven/Kuva player-base.

The Kuva Survival is a pretty darn perfect Alternative (you wouldn't believe how many people refuse to read that word in the Developer explanations and posts) and in-between method for Kuva farming, being on average a little more than Regular Siphons but a little less than Flood Siphons. I enjoy hoping in two or three missions before or after a Flood, and then rolling 10+ Rolled Rivens quite a few times with my hour long farm. Feels better to me than the normal Siphons, but I suppose that also depends on the crowd you farm with or the Public squad you get thrown in with.

 

Again, Bravo to you, DE, for not succumbing to the Forum madness and making the Kuva rewards scale, and keeping this brand new node an enjoyable experience for the, as some on the forum might call us, "filthy casuals who are ruining the game" *pfft*.

(And for those of you thinking it, no. There's no sarcasm here. This is legit praise to DE for NOT giving a tiny part of the player-base what they want, no matter how loud they try to scream it.)

I had to sign in to say something about this because holy crap.

This GTFO meta you're talking about already exists. Funny enough as well we have no kick function in pubs so if you go into one and someones throwing a tantrum well that's the most they can do. Generally though people in pubs are going to be a stacked team at all. And toxicity??? Where have you been???? its already pretty damn toxic! Peopl are selling "God" rolls for nearly 4k and beyond, and by this i mean so many people act like they're the riven lords and always have the best crap. They don't negotiate or haggle or anything. Heres the extent of most it

I say, "Id like to get that staticor riven"

He/she says, "offer?"

"Would 100p be good?"

End of conversation. The end result being completely ignored.

I don't know if you know this but back when malignant force first came out on ps4 people were asking 400p for it. I tried to get it for 200 because thats all i could afford. The guy laughed his ass off and talked insurmountable amounts crap. I told him it wasn't going to be exclusive for much longer and that it would most likely drop. He called bull. And I hope whoever it was is reading this but guess what? ITS 10P NOW!

There is a "casual" issue here, I'm not gonna sugarcoat that. Do you wanna know why though? Its not directly because of the casuals per say. However almost all of the recent content, by recent i mean going quite a bit back actually, has all been tailored for the new player or casuals. Theres no true endgame content for those of us that are hard veterans. Everything you called wrong with making it scaling is already in the game its not gonna change anything. We have endless missions for no reason right now so why can't a reason be given to it for people like me that wanna run as long as possible? If you join a public game you will most likely get paired with people that aren't going a long time anyways and people like me will almost always just make a group.

 

Alos you called it a tiny piece of the player base and I'm sorry but I'd like to see where you're getting those statistics.

[Kimimoto]

On 4/7/2018 at 4:48 PM, Tangent-Valley said:

"Meta Build 2 hour run or GTFO!"

People in recruiting would try? Wow, it's almost like you're the entitled one.

Going on 28 pages now, are we going to get some kind of response or is DE hoping with time it's just going to fade away? For me it won't, I will continue to come back to this thread and I'd hope everyone who wants some sort of scaling would do the same. 

After the current Kuva survival I've stopped playing seeing as there's nothing to do and the survival was a huge disappointment in the endurance run territory. Hopefully they acknowledge this thread, I'm not holding my breath.

[kingdomeTHEMADcthulhu]

Needs 500  without booster its a waste its more less a way to kill time well waiting for the real kuva stuff also for the love norg fix the rivens right now its utter bs no way to get a riven for what you need and stats 99%suck or are just the opposite you need (like geting status chance on crit weapon or vice versa) oh and  is the melee rework still a thing or that just die/disappear

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Oh ya ps4 getn this tomorrow! So stoked. I keep a resource booster... So that will be 2k kuva every 4.5 mins!

Im a hardcore veteran and i see this as an awesome deal. Anyone thats CLAIMING to be a veteran and whining about 1k kuva every 4.5 mins(2k with booster) is either a spoiled brat or not a true veteran. U gotta login everyday... Play every single day... 

Imo to be a true HARDCORE veteran of warframe. Thats me... 

This is a sweet deal, period.

[VenomousValentine]

3 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Oh ya ps4 getn this tomorrow! So stoked. I keep a resource booster... So that will be 2k kuva every 4.5 mins!

Im a hardcore veteran and i see this as an awesome deal. Anyone thats CLAIMING to be a veteran and whining about 1k kuva every 4.5 mins(2k with booster) is either a spoiled brat or not a true veteran. U gotta login everyday... Play every single day... 

Imo to be a true HARDCORE veteran of warframe. Thats me... 

This is a sweet deal, period.

>ps4

>hardcore veteran

Bro I've been playing before it was even on console and these amounts are pitiful. 

[Urlan]

5 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Oh ya ps4 getn this tomorrow! So stoked. I keep a resource booster... So that will be 2k kuva every 4.5 mins!

Im a hardcore veteran and i see this as an awesome deal. Anyone thats CLAIMING to be a veteran and whining about 1k kuva every 4.5 mins(2k with booster) is either a spoiled brat or not a true veteran. U gotta login everyday... Play every single day... 

Imo to be a true HARDCORE veteran of warframe. Thats me... 

This is a sweet deal, period.

Said like a person coming from no basis in what they are saying, but either way; I hope Kuva Survival is very beneficial to you.

[Hawk197]

4 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Oh ya ps4 getn this tomorrow! So stoked. I keep a resource booster... So that will be 2k kuva every 4.5 mins!

Im a hardcore veteran and i see this as an awesome deal. Anyone thats CLAIMING to be a veteran and whining about 1k kuva every 4.5 mins(2k with booster) is either a spoiled brat or not a true veteran. U gotta login everyday... Play every single day... 

Imo to be a true HARDCORE veteran of warframe. Thats me... 

This is a sweet deal, period.

2k in 4.5 minutes? Uh... With a booster, you get 400 Kuva every 90 seconds. If you somehow get 3 Smeeta buffs back to back to back, you get 800 Kuva every 90 seconds. There's a 28% chance to activate any of the 6 buffs. Really, you can't really apply the buff to the math, as the chances to get the double resource buff is so rare.

 

But, lets' say you ARE that lucky. Endless awards you 2.4k Kuva in 4.5 minutes. A normal Siphon, something you doesn't have the risk of dying to lack of life support or Extractor destruction, will give you 2.2k Kuva (550 base, 1100 with booster, 2200 with Smeeta) in about the same amount of time. The math simply doesn't work out. Without a booster and without a Smeeta, you get 600 Kuva from 4.5 minutes. A normal Siphon awards 550 Kuva. Again, the math doesn't work out. You lose Kuva, yes, but the difficulty is lessened in normal Kuva missions.

 

I'll use an example lots of people use when talking about Pokemon. In Pokemon, there are items called Repel, which gives you a certain amount of steps of safe travel in wildlands. The second tier is called Super Repel, which costs 500 Pokedollars for 200 steps, and the third tier is called Max Repel, which costs 700 Pokedollars for 250 steps. With basic math, a Super Repel gives 2.5 steps per Pokedollar (500/200), and Max Repel gives 2.8 steps per Pokedollar (700/250). Yes, Max gives you a whole .3 steps per Pokedollar extra, but you get quicker access to the Super, which cost slightly less, and this math have persisted since 1996, or 22 years. That same math can be applied to Kuva. Yes, you're getting 50 more Kuva with Endless (Or about 122 per minute with Siphon and about 133 per minute with Endless, or 11 more Kuva per minute in Endless) but in terms of efficiency, you're better off running Siphons. Yes, Endless saves you *some* loading time, but if you have good hardware and a good connection, that's a moot point. I have quicker access to Siphons and Floods, as would many others, as until now there's been no reason to go to the Kuva Fortress (Unless Kuva Fortress was on a Sortie or something along those lines). I've not even mentioned the fact Siphons can award 700 max Kuva, 1.4k with a booster, 2.8k with a Smeeta. That's 200 and 400 more Kuva than Endless with Booster and Smeeta.

 

Also, I've been playing since 2014. So while I'm not Alpha/Beta, I know a few things for sure. Veterans are people have vast experience in something. Saying a Veteran is "someone who plays non-stop" is false. That's called a fan, which is short for fanatic. Veterans can suggest builds and tell why those builds work. Fans show support for something.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

400 kuva every 90 secs = 2k kuva every 7 mins or so. Not 4 and a half... My bad. Point is, thats awsome and consistent. Its consistently awsome!

[Darkmatt3r]

30 minute for 3.6k not wurf bruv. kthxbi

[XeLLoOoOo]

15 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Oh ya ps4 getn this tomorrow! So stoked. I keep a resource booster... So that will be 2k kuva every 4.5 mins!

Im a hardcore veteran and i see this as an awesome deal. Anyone thats CLAIMING to be a veteran and whining about 1k kuva every 4.5 mins(2k with booster) is either a spoiled brat or not a true veteran. U gotta login everyday... Play every single day... 

Imo to be a true HARDCORE veteran of warframe. Thats me... 

This is a sweet deal, period.

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

400 kuva every 90 secs = 2k kuva every 7 mins or so. Not 4 and a half... My bad. Point is, thats awsome and consistent. Its consistently awsome!

you got the problem with mat?

2k kuva every 4,5 impossible in endless.

after you changed your idea and you said every 7 min, its also not possible. you say 400 kuva per 90 sec right. how many times you have to done to getting for 2k kuva? i gues 7. and 7 x 90 sec = 630 sec =10 minutes and half. 

everywhere you are oppsing to people thats your problem. 

[XeLLoOoOo]

On 07.04.2018 at 4:40 AM, Plasmaface said:

Where's the scaling? You know what people want. 

but people dont know what DE want!

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

15 minutes ago, XeLLoOoOo said:

 

you got the problem with mat?

2k kuva every 4,5 impossible in endless.

after you changed your idea and you said every 7 min, its also not possible. you say 400 kuva per 90 sec right. how many times you have to done to getting for 2k kuva? i gues 7. and 7 x 90 sec = 630 sec =10 minutes and half. 

everywhere you are oppsing to people thats your problem. 

10.5 mins for 2k kuva... Ur right, that is awesome! I can do it iver and over and iver with no cool down like floods! AWSOME

[Kryptonex-EN-]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:45 PM, AvPCelticPredator said:

Dear DEVS our Endless Survival Kuva is now much worse cuz deploying new capsule after first one is not scaled with minimum life support from first capsule (harvesting one).

Like I was say before we losing 1-2 min by searching new capsule, and deploying is not good.

After we starting Kuva harvesting from first capsule, immediately must to be deployed new capsule, and we can have 60 seconds to find that new one and starting new harvesting, right now that isn't like I saying, first we losing 60 second by waiting new capsule and 60 seconds by searching location where it is deployed.

So, that mean's (First harvesting from first capsule we got 200 kuva and spend 2 min by searching new one which at last give us 3 min just to collect between 1 and 2 capsule 3 minutes for 200 kuva!)

So, if u wanna keep this method in the game then increase that number from 200 Kuva per min plus 2 min losing by deploying and searching to 600 kuva.

(200 Kuva x 3 Min = 600 Kuva) and we will be satisfied.

 

Thx!

I spend 10 seconds finding the next tower, you need more skill, perhaps equip some mobility mods, they exist for a reason.

[(PSN)willitical]

ok so one issue i have is the colour, i get it the towers needs to be red, but the cells should be a different colour, its just too confusing when you have lots of cells 

[(PSN)willitical]

plus i really hate the maps in the fortress, please remove some of those rooms from the survival, constantly getting stuck in a maze while the the tower is getting destroyed is no good 

[Cindler]

Sooo, I tried the new-ish change of kuva endless (probably just bug fix that seems noticeable), and I was grateful for it. BUT (< big but there) there are 2 things that make kuva endless is less entertaining than kuva flood/siphon; 

1)  Life Support/Kuva Harvester health still doesn't scale with enemies' level

I don't know if you people (DE) intend to make this harvester really weak so we focus more on defending, maybe that's your intention. If you people don't want to change the health to scale with enemies, that's fine by me, but at least increase its health or give it some armor so it can survive for a few seconds, Napalm's DPS flame right on the harvester is really painful to watch, you know. 

2) The Kuva reward is not that rewarding

I know, I know, Warframe is all about grind and grind 'til you drop, but what make us keep going? the reward. 200 kuva for me seems a little bit too low, I have to buy booster to make it slightly worth to grind. If i don't want to buy booster, I can only rely on my Smeeta to proc me her double resource buff, although all I got is instant reload buffs which give me a slight crippling depression. Here's my suggestion about the kuva reward: every 10 minutes, the kuva will yield +50 kuva, so for example, once you hit 10 minutes mark you got 250 kuva and 300 kuva once you hit 20 minutes mark (At first, I was thinking every 5 minutes but you know, fun is kinda not allowed here). 

And so at this point, is Kuva endless worth running? for me, its worth it if you have a booster or Smeeta kavat with you, other than that, running kuva flood is way more better. 

Now, I only hope you can pick something from this post as an idea to change kuva endless once again. Thanks for reading.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

Tried it yesterday for 20 minutes.

Most of all it was fun, hectic in a good way.

Reward could be tweaked for sure.

But overall I'm happy and sure I'll play that mode much more than syphons and floods on Eris

[bAnthony24]

The objective was so that the Endless Kuva doesn't take away from the already implemented Kuva Missions... so to scale the kuva rewards in the Endless Kuva Survival, would most definitely take away from the other missions...

Something that a lot of people are over looking...

[(PSN)Filthy113]

I've run this mission many times now overall it's boring and almost the exact copy of everything else "Grind your face off" everything below is my OPIONON! 

Firstly the Kuva reward should be bumped to 400 instead of its current number.

Secondly it needs to be harder to get in its current state it's to easy to get a large amount people will and are getting bored of it. That shouldn't happened so quickly.

Lastly maybe spread it out a little add into other missions as well get people playing more the of the fortress also.

That's it really it's good for getting kuva but it's getting very boring fast.  

[(PSN)Seratronix]

Job well done DE :thumbsup: