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Dev Workshop: Endless Kuva Survival & Kuva Guardian Changes!


corpuskiller20

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survivals has less spawn rates of enemies and pods as the survival time increases so it would be good if atleast the value of kuva doesn't increase as time progresses the frequency of pods increases.This issue is also talked about in one of life of rio's YouTube video 

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Yup, should scale. A simple Kuva Flood is worth 6 life supports, which can easily be done with a Loki.

It should be an incentive to stay longer, for more risks but coupled with more rewards. But a steady 200 Kuva/life support with increased risks doesn't go well with a endless mission.

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Maybe you could use the precendent of the Void Fissures to improve the rewards? After every C rotation, the next 4 scale by a flat amount.

200 for 4

250 for 4

300 for 4

Etc (though I think base reward needs to be higher)

Though I will say this: If I'm going to spend my time running the SAME mission over and over, it has to be the best means to gather Kuva in a set amount of time, especially since it's being introduced so many years after the current system.

What I DO like about current Kuva missions is the planetary and mission type variety. If it's also competitive with this new, very repetitive option, I just don't see myself caring about it at all.

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200 Kuva Seems like a Joke to me .. From what I calculated it will still be more efficient  to run Siphon  even in "longer mission"  except maybe survival .. which is still 120 kuva / minute with booster

 

Let say you take 3 Kuva Extractor in the first 5 minutes.. 1200 with booster, sure it's more efficient, but in the same time, we could run a mobile defense (still one of the longer on in 5 minutes) for an equal amount of efficiency .. 

And the fact that it doesn't scale with more time in it  is kinda disheartening .. 

We don't want Kuva to be ultra easy to get.. but having an alternative is fine, but not when the alternative is as or less efficient than the other methods .. 

There is a risk to not being able to have enough Life support if you take all the towers..  even in a team of Nekros, Hydroid and company ..

The risk/reward don't seem worth it

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This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think I'll have to agree with the Dev post that there should be no kuva reward scaling involved.

My wife and I can easily surpass the 2-hour mark with barely any effort at all, and considering there won't even be nullifiers or combas to worry about it'll be a piece of cake, even with just 2 people. Hell, specific frames can even solo way past 3 hours if you know how to set them up.

 

So unfortunately, I'll have to say no to scaling reward.

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1 minute ago, Green_Alien said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think I'll have to agree with the Dev post that there should be no kuva reward scaling involved.

My wife and I can easily surpass the 2-hour mark with barely any effort at all, and considering there won't even be nullifiers or combas to worry about it'll be a piece of cake, even with just 2 people. Hell, specific frames can even solo way past 3 hours if you know how to set them up.

 

So unfortunately, I'll have to say no to scaling reward.

Don't forget that this isn't just survival now. It'll be Excavation concepts mixed in. With no stress involved I can run Survival a long time too, but if I have to give up Life Support to defend capsules that will likely eventually be one shotted, that changes the dynamic some. There does need to be SOME incentive for staying in the same mission longer, or it won't be efficient at all.

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7000 health on the harvester seems very low (unless it has a ton of armor). Please also keep in mind that enemies will deal more damage the longer you stay in the mission and that means the harvester health/armor needs to scale up accordingly.

I also think the change to Kuva Guardians is unnecessary. Guardians are already very powerful both when vulnerable (high damage and accuracy) and invulnerable (leap attacks with high damage and knockdown effect). If you want to make it easier to remove their invulnerability that's up to you, but buffing them just because we no longer need to press a single button makes no sense.

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200 x tower may be fine for the first 20 minutes, but some sort of high risk / high reward mechanic needs to come in play when the times goes up.

At the time mark some psychopats like me enjoy to go, there'll be need for a mandatory defensive frame wether it's frost or limbo or might as well be a Gara and see how she fares, and i really don't like the use of a "mandatory" frame in a survival, if crazies like me plan to hit the 180 minute mark or longer ( like i did several times for giggles back in the days when sovereign outcast needed to be farmed there ), even more so if the Kuva towers aren't gonna scale in health/armor just like the excavators do, but in that case infested are more forgiving at lvl 300 than grineers units shooting from all around. Anyway if we'll need a defensive frame for a survival, so be it.

The point is the longer you go, the more kuva you should able to get, simple like that.

You can introduce eventually random modifiers to make it really a very high risk/high reward but you gotta understand some of us have been waiting for a better reason to go a long time into kuva fortress survivals and not just because of the beauty of the tileset.

a 200 kuva reward when enemies are around lvl 1000/2000 ( which i absolutely loved with my team to fight even agreeing on not going with meta melee setups or the same 4 meta frames, cus it was too boring for us lmfao ) is a kick in the teeth, a joke that doesn't even sound funny.

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Why would you add "Endless Kuva" and not make it efficient? I think the pay off isn't worth it, you're able to run a Kuva Flood and get 2200 to 4000 with a Smeeta Kavat (With a Booster). If you're going to put hard work and dedication into something I would hope you'll want a pay off, right?

 

Suggestions;

Have it scale by 50 Kuva every 10 minutes (Note; If you do this I would leave the current Kuva amount the same).

Increase the current Kuva amount to be a on par with Kuva Missions.

After a the enemy level increases after Kuva Flood level it should scale

 

Conclusion

Currently this is highly ineffective due to that fact that you have squads able to speed run current Kuva Missions, even if I was to do it alone it would take 5 minutes to get 2200 from a Flood. 

 

 

 

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200 Kuva? are you kidding? Make it 500 or 400, 200 is just a sad amount. I was really not expecting such a pitiful amount, Cmon DE.

Edit: after some thought, even 400-500 would be way to low. 1000-1600 would be more reasonable. Or create scaling rewards that follow scaling difficulty. And fix survival spawns while you're at it.

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6 minutes ago, Green_Alien said:

So unfortunately, I'll have to say no to scaling reward.

This has less to do with not allowing solo or non-cheese players to gain unfair rewards and everything to do with not repeating the same mistake of the old Void key system, where it burning yourself out on the same type of mission and tileset ended up being the cause of a lot of player frustration. Screw "veterans" or rewarding skill, 2 hour survivals don't require either. All you need is the right kind of cheese.
DE should release it as it is, watch the player numbers, and then adjust the static reward depending on whether enough people play or not.

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First as everybody mentioned if its not scaling its not worth doing specially since its not solo friendly at all if i have to find i group i dont want to extract after 20 mins and repeat.

Second I dont like that the kuva is a pickup this only makes people want to buy boosters but it gets in the way of 4 player defending 4 towers at the same time because they have to go back to the kuva drop which would destroy the only good aspect of this mission. if the kuva remains non scaling and you want to make it like excavation then i would suggest making the kuva drop like cryotic and towers spawn way more often than regular survival.

 

Also since kuva flood reward double kuva its a great example of scaling you can build around that adjusting the amount to scale like it does with floods.

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200 kuva per harvester beh that's not nearly enough to make me want to farm kuva again.

@DE you need to understand how burned out most of us are from farming kuva since NOVEMBER 2016 !!!

People have done thousands of rolls each and the RNG is still not any better.

3500 per reroll is still too much and yes most rivens need to be rolled 10+ times.

You really need to either decrease the reroll cost or increase the kuva rewards. 

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Don't forget that this isn't just survival now. It'll be Excavation concepts mixed in. With no stress involved I can run Survival a long time too, but if I have to give up Life Support to defend capsules that will likely eventually be one shotted, that changes the dynamic some. There does need to be SOME incentive for staying in the same mission longer, or it won't be efficient at all.

Yes, I already took the excavation/defense part into consideration when I wrote that. So it still stands, even with just two people (hell, we don't even use life support posts to get that far, and now that you will be forced get a bit of life support per kuva instance extracted?.). Imagine running with a 4-man squad with coordination.

Thing is, the purpose of the new source of kuva is not to replace the old kuva siphon/flood missions. So basically it should not be faster. If the amount of kuva scaled the longer you stay, I guarantee you that it will eventually surpass the rate you gain kuva from the mentioned siphon/flood missions if you stay longer a set amount of time.

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When it comes to amount: I think that a fluctuating number than averages at 300 per tower would be the right amount, making it two siphons to get the same reward as a regular Kuva Mission.

I see a lot of people liking the scaling reward, I don't think it is a terrible thing if it is around 50 every so often, capping out before players would reach an hour long. However if the base amount is high enough, I don't think scaling will be needed.

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Poor rewards, that get less frequent over time due to the spawning mechanics behind life support towers. Another defense target with non-scaling health. In a game mode that doesn't play well without a full squad. Sheldon, this is really poorly done, this might be the worst thing you've done since you added orokin cells to the void tables. You seem to have no sense of acceptable rewards for effort, this game mode is both inefficient if you play it endlessly and is another boring defend this thing game-mode of which we have far too many already. This is a let down.

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2 minutes ago, Ampoth said:

Poor rewards, that get less frequent over time due to the spawning mechanics behind life support towers. Another defense target with non-scaling health. In a game mode that doesn't play well without a full squad. Sheldon, this is really poorly done, this might be the worst thing you've done since you added orokin cells to the void tables. You seem to have no sense of acceptable rewards for effort, this game mode is both inefficient if you play it endlessly and is another boring defend this thing game-mode of which we have far to many already. This is a let down.

very well said. No offense Sheldon but its really harsh.

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Ehhh... I was hoping it would scale 200-250-300-350-400 then it goes back down to 200. Like rotations. Also i would like that after the siphon that they explode and turn back into a LS that you Can't insert another crystal into. Maybe it could scale with how long you stay too so at the 5 minute mark its still at 200 base but at like.... 10 minute its 250 base? so it would go 250-300-350-400, then 300-350-400, etc
 
 
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