Maercurial Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 vor 14 Minuten schrieb Tangent-Valley: Please for the love of all that is good in this game Do NOT scale the Kuva reward like others are asking. I want to step into this new Survival type and enjoy myself and play, not have 3 other people screaming at me to GTFO because I don't have the super specific ultra Kuva Endless Meta build on for the 2-4 hour run that is the ONLY way to play on the Node now (even if I join on Public). Scaling the kuva rewards would create a super toxic atmosphere around the Kuva Endless mission, and if anything, would only scare most of the player base away from it as only Elites hog it all and hold any others hostage inside the mission until they eventually just abort it to leave (thus also closing the door most likely for any continued development or updating of the node as DE will want nothing to do with it, and will be too scared to touch/change it as well). People will claim Rivens are becoming an "Elites Only" playground, and superior Riven Rolls through Mass Rolls will begin to appear purely in the hands of Endless Kuva Elites Farmers (Cause who's gonna waste their time on the pathetic Roaming Nodes now? Pfft.). Non-scaling Reward = We're here because this mission type is fun to play and more worth it than the Roaming Nodes, and we can stop and step out before the end of the hour to farm the Flood Node before coming back in Scaling Reward = We're only here to farm and farm hard with the most Elite set ups possible and we don't leave for HOURS and this node is only for us Elite and ONLY the Elite and everyone else better scram and stop diluting the Public mission mode with their lowly filth (But seriously though, if there are 3 Elites they WILL hold a 4th member hostage in the mission and trash talk them until they leave and never come back, that's the toxic style I know would be coming for the Node) That's extremely exaggerated and you know it. In Pubs, people will try to stay more than 5 Minutes of course (which isn't a bad thing), but no one in their right mind would join a pub and expect a perfect setup for a 4 hour run, those will be done by premade groups. If you join a pub, you'll probably expect a 20-30 minute Mission, and if you happen to be in a good team and all want to stay longer, so be it. The case you're describing here is a rare, exaggerated situation that might happen yes, there's always going to be some toxic players around in any mission type, it really wouldn't be any different to Eidolons or anything else in the game that is slightly challenging, but in this case the issue could be solved easily by allowing players to OPT OUT just like we already can in Defense and Interception. That way, if the 4th player wants to leave, he's free to do so, and those who want to stay can do that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arniox Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 hours ago, [DE]Sheldon said: earned 200 Kuva Really? I had high hopes for this, but it's not even worth it now... Even if you burned through all your life support caches in 5 mins (I believe it's 3 or 4 per 5 mins) you would get barely 1000 per 5 mins... Officially the weakest kuva farm I've ever seen. And it becomes harder and harder to sacrifice a life support tower the longer you go so there's no real point going for that long anyways... Useless kuva farm 2018... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieknife Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 when will you buff kronen prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordNeko Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I feel 200 Kuva is too low when regular/flood Kuva missions exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davolution Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 i would also appreciate a scaling of the kuva reward. Maybe 25% per 10 minutes. lets say you can get 3 towers per 10 minutes that would be 600 for the first. +750 (1350) for 20 minutes, +938 (2288) for 30 minutes, +1173 (3461) for 40 minutes, +1466 (4927) for 50 minutes and +1833 (6760) for one hour. And doing one hour survival in the kuva fortess requires a pretty good team, so i think thats not too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenomousValentine Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Wow so you mean the mission gets harder but the rewards stay the same! Haha quality post from our very player friendly digital extremes team that knows exactly what the players want! Seriously I am the last of my friends who play this game because of this kind of S#&$. You throw us the slightest of bones expecting it to entice new players, but after they get what they want they don't find the game fun enough to continue so they leave because that's all we ever get. Our content is always ever just more S#&$ to grind instead of more things to do. I have played for five years and I'm tired of seeing my friends slowly hate this game and abandon it because they aren't sadistic enough to continue grinding every day like me. What is even the point of it being endless if it gets harder with garbage rewards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenomousValentine Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, VenomousValentine said: Wow so you mean the mission gets harder but the rewards stay the same! Haha quality post from our very player friendly digital extremes team that knows exactly what the players want! Seriously I am the last of my friends who play this game because of this kind of S#&$. You throw us the slightest of bones expecting it to entice new players, but after they get what they want they don't find the game fun enough to continue so they leave because that's all we ever get. Our content is always ever just more S#&$ to grind instead of more things to do. I have played for five years and I'm tired of seeing my friends slowly hate this game and abandon it because they aren't sadistic enough to continue grinding every day like me. What is even the point of it being endless if it gets harder with garbage rewards? Let me elaborate on this. What is even the point of getting geared and being good at the game if you can't even use said gear and skill to get better rewards. If someone who is not geared can come in and do ten 5 minute survivals and get the same amount of rewards as the long time player who does a 50 minute survival or god forbid several hours, why even have endless missions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofgods Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 @[DE]Sheldon My only complaint is that there's no reason to stay for longer periods of time in this mission. Or any mission in Warframe, for that matter, since the Void Key system was removed. Endless Kuva is the perfect staging point to change that, if you'd only allow it to happen. I propose lowering the starter value to 150 or even 100 Kuva per tower for the first 5 minutes, but raise the amount granted per tower by something like 5, 10, 15, 20 or perhaps even 25 Kuva every 5 minutes of Survival.This would grant players a reason to stay in the mission long enough to actually encounter enemies that take more than 2 shots to kill. Players are powerful. Warframes are powerful. Their weapons are really powerful, thanks to the Modding system. Without endless Void Keys, the average player will never encounter an enemy that takes more than 2 shots to kill once they fully develop their favorite gear. This isn't some MR20+ problem like everyone seems to think; a well-accomplished MR10 could easily find most content in the game trivial. It's time we changed that. I understand it's alot to ask, but we've been asking for a long time. If not now, when? If not Kuva, then what? Players have been optimizing their builds for 5 years now. Many folks have weapons with 5 or more Forma applied to them. You know what they always test their weapons on? Enemies in the Simulacrum - because nothing else in the game comes close to the level 150/155 enemies players spawn there, without first spending an hour in an Axi Survival mission. I made a Zaw and wanted to test it outside of a closeted scenario (WITHOUT Maiming Strike), so I did an Axi Survival against infested. 90 minutes later, Ancients were actually taking 2 shots to kill! Eximus Ancients and Brood Mothers sometimes took 3! Just as things were starting to get even remotely interesting, we had to extract because of real life responsibilities. 90 minute survivals should not be the only time the game starts to become challenging. Please, I implore you, not only as a member of this wonderful community but as a gamer seeking challenge from my favorite game of all time: Give us something HARD to do. At the very least, could we ask for a Flood level version (Starting at 100+) to be added soon after release? Maybe with a Nightmare modifier? Maybe at least a Tactical Alert event where enemies start at 500 or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 there is no reason to call it endless kuva if there isnt a good incentive to do more than 5 minutes at a time... 200 kuva per life support that doesn's scale is just horrible. its like calling the new "dark sectors" dark sectors when its not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenomousValentine Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 @Aceofgods is right. Listen to your players DE. You make it a grind to keep the players playing, but it's having the opposite effect. ACTUALLY LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS FOR ONCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAnthony24 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 This sounds great for people who know how to play with Ivara, cause her prowl is gonna arse rape for LiSups .... :D @Aceofgods Your argument is great and all but if they start making endless kuva missions starting off that hard they'd lose their newcomers and the only ones to benefit would be vets like yourself, as they've said recently their goal is to make this game challenging and fun for both vets and n00bs X-)... Me personally I agree with a DS being placed with this for people of your tastes to get an uber challenge... but you will always need to think about how newer people would feel who don't have funds to buy boosters and the lots to earn kuva, it would be merely impossible for them to enjoy an endless Kuva run... Just my thoughts on this... Ivara FTW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenomousValentine Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Just now, bAnthony24 said: This sounds great for people who know how to play with Ivara, cause her prowl is gonna arse rape for LiSo's .... :D It would be if you didn't have to protect something. Limbo would be more ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorerMaximus Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I wanted to add- I'd love to be able to kill enemies for kuva; even 10-20 kuva per enemy would be really nicer and compliment the core gameplay loop of killing things to get things to get cooler things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SordidDreams Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Mostly good stuff all around, except for this: 6 hours ago, [DE]Sheldon said: Kuva awarded per successful Kuva Harvester does not increase as the Endless Survival mission progresses. Our intent is for Kuva Survival to mimic the mechanic of Excavation/Defense with the intensity of Survival. That is silly. People have been complaining about the lack of scaling rewards for ever, and instead of taking this opportunity to test such a system, you make the kuva survival conform to the old system that you already know is bad. A flat 200 kuva per harvester with no scaling is just bad, as is basing that amount on the existing siphon/flood numbers (because those are by themselves way too low). I get it, you need to sell boosters, but even with a booster 2400 kuva per flood is barely worth it. That's not even one riven roll. C'mon with this. Even with a booster you have to basically no-life this game to get anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--END--Rikutatis Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said: Please for the love of all that is good in this game Do NOT scale the Kuva reward like others are asking. I want to step into this new Survival type and enjoy myself and play, not have 3 other people screaming at me to GTFO because I don't have the super specific ultra Kuva Endless Meta build on for the 2-4 hour run that is the ONLY way to play on the Node now (even if I join on Public). Scaling the kuva rewards would create a super toxic atmosphere around the Kuva Endless mission, and if anything, would only scare most of the player base away from it as only Elites hog it all and hold any others hostage inside the mission until they eventually just abort it to leave (thus also closing the door most likely for any continued development or updating of the node as DE will want nothing to do with it, and will be too scared to touch/change it as well). People will claim Rivens are becoming an "Elites Only" playground, and superior Riven Rolls through Mass Rolls will begin to appear purely in the hands of Endless Kuva Elites Farmers (Cause who's gonna waste their time on the pathetic Roaming Nodes now? Pfft.). Non-scaling Reward = We're here because this mission type is fun to play and more worth it than the Roaming Nodes, and we can stop and step out before the end of the hour to farm the Flood Node before coming back in Scaling Reward = We're only here to farm and farm hard with the most Elite set ups possible and we don't leave for HOURS and this node is only for us Elite and ONLY the Elite and everyone else better scram and stop diluting the Public mission mode with their lowly filth (But seriously though, if there are 3 Elites they WILL hold a 4th member hostage in the mission and trash talk them until they leave and never come back, that's the toxic style I know would be coming for the Node) I seriously doubt anyone who takes a survival seriously enough to this point you so dramatically emphasize would join a public match. Anyone going into a survival with a serious mindset to stay that long would just go solo or with a premade squad. I do wish they would add the option for players to extract individually though, extraction in public match survivals have always been frustrating because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAAAARP Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 By the looks of it the only viable choice for this as a solo player will be nekros or hydroid. that is not healthy game design. will probably need some tuning, but the general idea is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mista. Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 hours ago, [DE]Sheldon said: 200 Kuva is awarded per Kuva Harvester- this value is still subject to change with continued testing/feedback. Why not +50 every successful harvest,but stops at 500. 200 250 300 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenomousValentine Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 40 minutes ago, Maercurial said: That's extremely exaggerated and you know it. In Pubs, people will try to stay more than 5 Minutes of course (which isn't a bad thing), but no one in their right mind would join a pub and expect a perfect setup for a 4 hour run, those will be done by premade groups. If you join a pub, you'll probably expect a 20-30 minute Mission, and if you happen to be in a good team and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atmoris Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 hours ago, qxDUCKxp said: Question: Does a resource booster double the amount of kuva dropped? A Resource Booster SHOULD double the amount of kuva dropped. as it IS a resource that does drop now. who knows though, it might be something like nitain. where if you have a booster. the amount isnt doubled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bAnthony24 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I say keep it interesting cause if the Endless Kuva mission releases with the current stats, I don't think I'd play especially if their is no scaling, I mean think about Enemies get harder fewer LiSups but kuva pay is only 200 for the entire mission rather you play 5 mins or 60 mins... Not a very realistic feature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolivetodie Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Please make kuva scale with time... 200 is too low. Maybe you can make craft able booster for it like how we did in plague star event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arniox Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 hours ago, [DE]Sheldon said: Considering the Endless Survival aspect, this number will allow Kuva Survival to sit in the middle between Kuva Siphon and Kuva Flood in regards to the amount of Kuva rewarded. Tenno who want a quicker Kuva routine can still play Siphon or Flood missions, but those who want to acquire this Resource via familiar gameplay (with a twist) can jump into an Endless Kuva Survival! No, myself, and I think quite a few others want a better form of kuva farming than any other. Why is it a good idea to middle out probably the most enjoyable form of farming? If we want more kuva, you're essentially forcing us to do a much more boring farm. Can you please, please either increase the kuva reward by quite a lot more or make it scale with time to encourage longer survival? You've basically completely wiped out the need for long survivals and I really wish you made endless kuva farms a good example of their reassurance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofgods Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, bAnthony24 said: but if they start making endless kuva missions starting off that hard they'd lose their newcomers Kuva isn't part of the New Player Experience. There are only two things locked behind any sort of leveling wall (Aside from MR-locked gear) and that is Kuva and it's intertwined systems, and Eidolons - which you need to familiarize yourself with Kuva and its systems to do. Kuva is the closest thing to 'endgame' that we have, so new players do not factor into it. 'Vets' don't have anything. Let us have something so that we have a reason to keep playing. A purpose for all the optimizations we've done since we've started playing this game. Give us a goal we actually have to try to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyValkyr Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 As someone who generally loves survivals - the initial idea is good, however... Let's look at the numbers. Normal mission with Kuva takes me around 4-6 minutes and it nets me 600 (1200 with booster)ish Kuva & 1200 (2400) when it's Kuva Flood. With the lifesupport-pod thingy, you get 200 per one - it takes a minute to defend it, and it also takes some decision making if to even use it for Kuva in the first place. At the top of all, enemies scale, and therefore I believe even the Kuva rewards should scale. I'd suggest up the basic reward to 400 (800 with a boster) and scale it up to say, 600 - 700 (1200 - 1400 with a booster) but time you hit Rotation C (20 minute-mark) - and keep it at that number once you are at 20+ minute mark. The enemies scale; it should be reflected in the rewards somehow (it's a flaw of regular Survivals too, mind you; no incentive to say longer) The goal I believe, is to provide equally viable, fun ways to obtain Kuva, but for that to be true, it has to offer similar reward-table for us, akin to old Kuva missions. I'd also look at the whole 'meta' thing. I would prefer not to have to bring a Nekros when I'm solo'ing, to get enough life support capsule drops from enemies. The game always had so much variety, that people could pick the way they play & enjoy it, and that's what made me love the game in the first place. Most recent designs seem to go contra that, and it made me enjoy the game far less (at least the newer content, anyways). Would be nice to not go further that direction, but that's just my opinion. Last but not least - consider having both Flood and normal version of the mission for more mayhem. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecliptix Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 If the reward doesnt scale then this will only get played for 5 minutes or maybe 10 then extract and repeat, and that is only if it gives enough time wise compared to the regular flood/siphon method. IDEAS A scaled up version may also be a good idea similar to flood vs siphon. Possibly having siphons randomly spawn through out this sort of like how sentients spawn every so often on lua. Make the AABC round rewards have kuva as a possible reward. Possibly create a risk/reward option. Such as a container of unrefined kuva you refine it in the life support and then can pick it up and put it into the next one for a bonus amount of kuva and can keep doing that for better and better rewards. Would keep people in the missions longer. Make Kuva Guardians drop small amounts of kuva maybe 25 or something. Part of the issue with this as much as I like the idea is that this game has gone the way of pure farming. So if this isnt really close to or better than siphon/flood farming it will just never be used because people have gotten very good and quick at doing siphons and there is basically no risk in it at all and its fast. We need so much Kuva that even a small change in how much time we spend vs how much kuva we get will kill this in its tracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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