Dev Workshop: Endless Kuva Survival & Kuva Guardian Changes!

[XeLLoOoOo]

Want to explain something. There is 43,000 possibilities on Rivens. and we really need some spesific stats on many weapons. For example Kohm im prefer 120 status, Damage, Multishot with decent negative. 

1 Roll 3,500 kuva = 3 run with booster or 6 run witout booster (charm buff not including, and flood as we know once per long time)

if you wanna roll a riven 43,000 times i would like

43,000 x 3 mission with booster = 129,000 run

43,000 x 6 missin without booster = 258,000 run

in this case if i need 9 tower per roll with booster or 18 tower without booster

No need to equal, there i dont know anybody would live in this game for so long. 

[Caramello]

This "endless farm" is an absolute joke, either increase the ammount of kuva we get to at least 500 per tower (1000 with booster), or just scrap it, the way it is now is not worth steping foot on the fortress.

Nobody is going to do 20 minute survival to get 2k kuva, in that time i can get at least 3 times that ammount just by doing the old siphons, if you want a single person to do this method you need to at least make it more worthwhile than the old method.

[Liacu]

Looking forward to playing this but I'm a bit disappointed there's no scaling for rewards or excavators. Didn't the team always desire implementing scaling rewards for longer runs? They've worked immensely well for Void Fissures so I don't know why there's still reluctance. People already run extra long runs with no incentive but it'd certainly be more fun if we did get scaling rewards.

I also think it's a problem that the excavators (both Kuva Survival and Excavation modes) don't have scaling health which causes them to end up being shot down in mere seconds. It makes certain frames too mandatory when such a thing isn't necessary. (Most defense and CC frames are very strong and see regular use everywhere) One of the joys of this game is its very loose meta, allowing for everyone to play anyone they want without extreme ridicule.

Would be even happier if there was scaling for both rewards and defense health.

[XeLLoOoOo]

This week this is second joke,

first one is the Kronen prime with 12 cc, 24 status chance and 50 cm range.

[paixdamien]

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[paixdamien]

It should scale BUT should have a x2 cap at lv80(same as kuva flood) so if its really 200 it should be 400 cap at lv100. Because thats the levels of kuva flood I think thats its only fair. Kuva should scale but there should be a limit, if there is no limit people will just abuse this, and there will also be no reason to run normal kuva or kuva flood. But I think 200 is a bit low? I could be very wrong bec I cant tell the right number because we need to test this ourselves to give some right and fair numbers. On normal kuva missions it takes 3-5+ mins to finish the mission, giving an avg of 1.2k+ kuva with booster. On kuva endless the mission is harder, the level is higher, you have to worry about life support and the map is harder, very anti parkour. Normal missions(capture, sabotage etc) are nothing compare to this. A 5 mins in Kuva endless w/ booster should give us an avg of AT LEAST 2k kuva, then scale and cap at lv100. This way Kuva endless will always be better on kuva farming cause its harder, while normal kuva will still be alive for quick kuva. OR the kuva can scale infinitely but at lv100 the further you stay the lower it scales

Edit: oh and the spawning really needs a fix with this

[Jorak_Falconstar]

why not simply remove the detonate ampule drops and replace them with Kuva like in a manner similar to Oxium?

[Winterbraid]

I'd rather the game threw less Kuva at me but made the amount I do get feel more meaningful. For example, I'd like the ability to lock a single stat on a Riven mod after 50 rolls, or if a Riven became gradually more biased towards rolling raw damage stats (damage, multishot, crit, elemental) the more you reroll it.

Still, I appreciate the work put into this because I find the Kuva Siphon gameplay pretty boring.

[Kimimoto]

3 hours ago, Tangent-Valley said:

I want to step into this new Survival type and enjoy myself and play, not have 3 other people screaming at me to GTFO because I don't have the super specific ultra Kuva Endless Meta build on for the 2-4 hour run that is the ONLY way to play on the Node now (even if I join on Public).

No, that's exaggerating and fear mongering^10. In my 4k hours of playing the game I have never seen this, because nobody does this. If you're looking to go long runs you put a group together.

This is not a reason to not give purpose to every progression system in the game. Please.

[Deathnor]

i really dont get this change. like at all.

1. the number seems low. like intentionally so. it is looking like a low ball on purpose.

i mean # really doesnt matter as that number is so low its pretty obvious that it isnt the number. its a low ball working with player expectations and the easy ability to give ground.

2. the game is lacking any sort of end game challenge.

this should provide a challenge but as the rewards are linear for the non linear difficulty their is no reason to not just reset other then because.

3. any content that doesnt seem to fit into a short  wrap up is really obvious at this point.

i think the deeper question is not in regards to this change but the design overall. several game modes scale infinitely in time but their is no reason to do so. this does not buck that trend but seems to enforce it. very odd on a semi new game mode that is infinite.

4. comparisons to defense/excavation are poorly thought out.

defense mission scale. not well but you do start getting better relics like extraordinary and such after some time. this throws the zero scaling out the window right away. however neither other type actively asks the players to forgoe anything for its rewards. the only comparison is that they all scale. this comparison is as bad as the damage updates where you would let players know a sniper rifle could rag doll.

 

i just dont get this at all. i think 2 and 3 and the design philosophy overall is as important as this change. 

[Kimimoto]

3 hours ago, WhiteCr0w said:

They're complaining about it for selfish reasons and shouldn't be taken seriously or into consideration.

Wow you know what, get out. Way to have no empathy for hardcore players that don't have a reason to be in Warframe anymore. Wanting a challenge and something to test ourselves on isn't selfish. 

I guess you're not actually listening to anyone and just thinking that people want 100k kuva in an instant. Cool.

I haven't had a meaningful endurance run in 2 years, can we have one thing? Please, can we just have reasonable scaling rewards without people coming into this thread *@##$ing it'll break it. When in fact it won't break it at all.

[Vypor]

I was desperately hoping that the amount of kuva acquired as you progressed would scale upward. Therefore appropriately rewarding players who have the means and coordination to survive that long. That was the primary reason why I was so looking forward to kuva survival.
As for the 200 kuva per tower... Really? Is that all? I was hoping for AT THE VERY LEAST 300. Even with a resource booster, 300 gives you less than a REGULAR siphon. But still feels somewhat rewarding.

 

In the end, I wanted something that was MORE rewarding than siphons with occasional floods if I had the means to go all out and dedicate potentially over an hour to a single survival run. A way where someone would actually feel rewarded for their efforts. 200 non-scaling base kuva is worse than doing the current kuva siphon missions available now.

[WMan22]

Please consider making kuva siphon LS health and kuva gained scale with enemy level proportionately to what a regular kuva run would be, and have a base of like 300 or 400, not 200.

The reason people even wanted endless kuva survival is because we want to test our skills and be rewarded for all our forma investment; There's currently not a lot of good content for veteran players of the game especially now with raids gone and this actually could be it if it's properly balanced for experienced players who want to go really far in survival.

When it reaches kuva flood enemy levels, it should reward like kuva flood. Bear in mind that this is actually going to be harder than a siphon mission, an excavation mission, and even a regular survival mission on account of the fact that you're going to have to actually defend a target with health on it against grineer with guns and now far tankier kuva guardians while also fighting against the life support clock on one of the most difficult tilesets in the entire game, there is literally no reason to not make this a highly rewarding way to get kuva.

There needs to be actual incentive to spend more time in this rather than just running random kuva missions, otherwise people are going to realize it's not worth going to play these missions and drop it like a sack of bricks after a week once they realize it's not nearly as time efficient to do for a resource you need hundreds of thousands of if you're highly invested in riven mods.

Personally, I will be a very happy camper if this gets turned into a veteran activity that rewards you better than what is shown here. Kuva is like, the only resource left to farm for someone who has completed focus and has more endo than they know what to do with. Even focus is finite, which is why Void Onslaught can be a secondary veteran activity and THIS can be the thing for other kinds of vets.

You won't always need endo

You won't always need credits

You won't always need affinity

You won't even always need Prime parts

But you will ALWAYS need Kuva whether you're a new player or an old one assuming you partake in rivens. And if you're an old player, this could be the thing that gets people invested in between updates, since heck knows Baro Ki Teer isn't scratching that itch as of late with what he's been bringing for my hard earned ducats.

Please. I miss endurance runs. I have missed them since void keys became void relics. Please don't skimp us out on this.

[LordKold]

I love the idea of the Kuva Fortress finally giving Kuva, and of the survival mode. Only issue I see is that this is a great opportunity to give the players some "endgame" that we so desperately want. Survival is a mode where players can do long runs to really test themselves, but currently there's no reason to do so outside of a personal sense of achievement. I concur with the many other players saying:

The Kuva amounts need to scale the longer you go.

200 Kuva per life support isn't going to be enough to make this worthwhile, an even if the amount is increased, there still will be no point in doing hour long runs. Instead people will do maybe a 20 minute run then reset because of enemy scaling so the mission goes back to easy levels. Please DE, make the Kuva amounts scale so there is a real challenge, with a real reward, for us veterans. :)

(P.S. Please, please, please, DO NOT make focus the reward for the new dark sectors-ish gamemode coming up, I beg you. We already have eidolons for that.)

[Snake]

9 hours ago, DrBorris said:

That would be awesome

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Yes do this - Stack 50 for each LS.

First LS - 200

Second LS - 250

Third LS - 300 

And so on,

Make it actually rewarding for going longer please! WE NEED THIS in Warframe now as Vets.

[Nasair]

Can we please have an endless Kuva mission?
Since it doesn't scale....

[Destoro]

It would be great if the kuva would scale up the longer you're in the mission

[spacerocks]

I also believe that kuva should scale as the mission progresses. While in the current form laid out, it will still be faster to collect kuva this way than kuva siphon missions, and maybe faster than floods, but it would be nice to be rewarded for our efforts the longer we are there. If possible, it would be nice to work like how the relic bonuses work, where if you complete a certain number (so like 3) in the 5 min time frame, the rewards increase

[RedToothKaki]

The enemies that drop the kuva catalyst are not spawning period. This may be a bug with the heads up display not marking them on every life support tower gained

[(PSN)Exia0321]

The consensus from the community is clear...the kuva rewards HAVE TO scale. Its a survival mission where enemies scale hence the kuva should scale. 

And 

we want Clem transmission. 

[zWhiteKz]

1st of all Thank You Sheldon for the 5 year u have been working so hard on WarFrame

2nd for everyone who said get 50 more each tower scaling is way way too much ... why? Here the reason, just after 4 tower and the 5th tower is 400 which is broken as heck and that not even counting with resource booster or smeta buff ( lottery machine )

so here my sollution:

*** Make kuva from tower scale:

• 25 each tower would be a fair number to scale with but like above this scale can get out of hand very quickly depend on how frequentcy of the tower spawn and how try-hard the squad can run 
• use the rotation AABC to control how much kuva gonna scale, my idea is 100 each 10-20 min depend on how tower spawn

*** Make kuva drop in a range like in siphon/flood:

• like everyone have said 200 is low compare to siphon/flood, so my sollution is change to base 300-400 each tower, this open up the range of kuva reward and the amount seem fair compare to siphon/flood and it also reward the hard work the team put on for survival

Of course this is all base on how the tower/enemies spawn and keep kuva/life support gain but like Sheldon said this will change so cheer

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, WMan22 said:

When it reaches kuva flood enemy levels, it should reward like kuva flood. Bear in mind that this is actually going to be harder than a siphon mission, an excavation mission, and even a regular survival mission on account of the fact that you're going to have to actually defend a target with health on it against grineer with guns and now far tankier kuva guardians while also fighting against the life support clock on one of the most difficult tilesets in the entire game, there is literally no reason to not make this a highly rewarding way to get kuva.

 

Not to mention Kuva Grineer are around x3 more dangerous than typical Grineer.

I've watched a lvl 270 Kuva Shield Lancer burn through ~62,000 eHP in 3 seconds with that Marelok they use. Kuva Elite Lancers use Grinlok instead of Hind. Lancers use Kohm, Troopers use Hek, Gunners use Drakgoon. Those weapons quickly get far more brutal than other Grineer and of course everyone's favorite. Napalms.

Now they're adding Kuva Guardians. 200 Kuva for that kinda abuse?

I wana see someone at DE do a 2 hour Solo on Kuva Fortress. I bet their outlook changes real quick. I do long runs because that's what I like to do and I'll do it regardless but if they're intention is for this to be a rewarding option to attain Kuva; they're way off target. These screen captures at 4 min. C'mon DE, actually play it.

[(XBOX)iDEATH]

I think scaling the Kuva rewards should definitely be thing, or else people will just farm 5-10 minutes at a time, rinse and repeat. Some risk vs. reward for staying in longer for bigger kuva amounts would make this a heck of a lot more interesting. There's always been some randomness in the amount of kuva rewarded, to why not bring that in here, so instead of 200 kuva, it's 100 kuva + 25-50 kuva, or some other value. Have that random part be what scales, so the 4th catalyst might be a reward of 100 + 100-200 kuva.

I still think it'd be neat to have a kuva breakable in the fortress maps, like a "refined kuva carafe" that has a small amount (like 50 to 100) of kuva in it that spawns uncommonly. Put a hard cap on the max number than can spawn in a mission so that if you find all of them in Assault you could come out with 400 or 500 kuva. I also see this operating a bit like the regular siphon missions, where when the container is broken it spaws a little kuva wisp you have to chase down as your Operator. It disipates fairly quickly, so you have to be on your toes if you're flinging AoE all over the place if you want to grab these kuva spawns.

[phoenix1992]

Do you even remotely math those things before you post them, or as in the case of dmg 2.5 you just throw stuff on the wall and assume everyone runs builds with broken serration?

With the system that is proposed in the OP, the return value must be *at least* 300 in order to break even with siphons and floods and at least 400 to make it on lucrative enough to even bother with the extra hassle.

Can we take a reality check that only people that run some sort of extremely (with all due my respect) bad builds and insist on going solo spend more than 3-4 minute in a siphon/flood?
Or we should all play like this ;  
In order to to fit the math that is recently used in order to fit the narrative of usefulness?

[KokoroWish]

I'd prefer the Kuva Guardian glow while invulnerable, personally. It makes more sense just visually and conceptually.