How Funnel Clouds (aka Tornado) works

[DeathGold]

Hey so after seeing tactical potato's video i just wanted to see why that happens (see video below)

Spoiler

 

and after many tests i came to a  conclusion: as Tornados absorb damage and don't divide it by the number of enemies each enemy takes 100% of the damage dealt to a single tornado but when another tornado is in the range it also takes the full damage (looks like tornado just absorb damage and dealt it in an AoE) and as the other tornado take the damage it absorb it all of it and dealt it again as an AoE , this AoE touch the first tornado and the cycle repeat . Now  having 2 tornados effectivly doubles your damage dealt and dealt it several times in a row and that's great but what happen with 12 tornados ? let's see what happen :
-step 1 :tornado 1 get damaged by damage it deal it in an AoE arround it 
-step 2 :all the other tornados near it(11 in the case of the video) take the full damage and dealt it back in an AoE boom that's 12 times your damage
-step 3 :each tornado deal a seperate instance of damage in an AoE effectively reapplying the damage to other tornados and the cycle reapply (go back to stepl 1 for each tornado)
Now Wait Another Minute : 
in this case we're talking about 12 tornados grouped up arround a group of 8 bombards/heavy guneers but hey tornados in a true mission won't stay grouped up = nothing like that can happen 

at max it can be like a 2 tornados case getting close to each other trying to kill the same enemy (wich is rare as tornados tend to don't chase the same enemy) and then killing the enemy and degrouping 
so in my opinion this should be looked at like "clever use of game mechanics" and Should Not Be Nerfed as it is impossible to do it without the augment (ragdolling enemies make them fly away from each others and tornados going seperate  ways) and isn't overkill as nearly impossible to reproduce in a real case scenario hope i got understood as it is very weird and i don't realy know how to explain it in a simple way

 

[yles9056]

You don't get 12x damage all the time as the tornadoes don't stay together in real combat.

I agree this should stay as it is now. It doesn't kill enemies in one button press and also gives players a reason to use the augment.

Edited March 23, 2018 by yles9056

[DeathGold]

1 minute ago, yles9056 said:

You don't get 12x damage all the time as the tornadoes don't stay together in real combat.

exacty what i said  : in a real case scenario but as it's writen "in this case" refers to the video but yeah this is why i think it shouldn't be nerfed

[yles9056]

I tried it in a sortie 2 survival before. The tornadoes are all over the place. It would be great if there's a way to group enemies together.

This is a good reason to bring back Divebomb Vortex augment and give it to Air Burst.

[NeithanDiniem]

1 minute ago, yles9056 said:

I tried it in a sortie 2 survival before. The tornadoes are all over the place. It would be great if there's a way to group enemies together.

This is a good reason to bring back Divebomb Vortex augment and give it to Air Burst.

Nidus or Vauban ally could do the grouping for you

[DeathGold]

totaly agree with you yles on this point . Maybe add an augment that make tornados group up on air burst explosion location ! 

Edited March 23, 2018 by DeathGold

[DeathGold]

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Nidus or Vauban ally could do the grouping for you

that enter the domain team work synergies which must be powerfull as it is taking coordination and special frame choosing 

[taiiat]

solution is simple, just have Tornadoes not target/chase the same Enemies as ones another Tornado is already targeting, and multiple Tornadoes can't be absorbing Damage from the same Enemies simultaneously.
prevents exponential Multipliers on a single Enemy, but lets it be used across the swathes of Enemies much the same. but while you're at it you compensate to make sure that they don't make a dumb decision (trying to Target something they can't) so that they all find useful Targets for themselves.

past that, go nuts!

Edited March 23, 2018 by taiiat

[Terrornaut]

Where did all the sudden commentary on funnels come from with Tac and Rio?

I'm guessing they didn't touch her post rework and experiment. I follow them both too, hmm 🤔

Day one post changes I put up a video about this. I didn't use gas bc I don't generally use it for reasons, but, with proper setups, she can certainly make use of a full damage multiplier from grouping tornadoes regularly in combat, when it's relevant anyway. Sorties, plains, so on.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Terrornaut

[PsiWarp]

I agree, while a powerful technique this is not always practical. Sure you can recast Tornadoes to try to get them to spawn on your crosshair location for a quick burst of damage, but even 1 enemy being 25 meters~ around you will spawn some tornadoes on him instead. You can try modding for negative Ability Range to shrink that spawn area but that just gimps Turbulence and Airburst coverage.

And yeah, tornadoes tend to scatter and wander apart.

Edited March 23, 2018 by PsiWarp

[Terrornaut]

39 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

I agree, while a powerful technique this is not always practical. Sure you can recast Tornadoes to try to get them to spawn on your crosshair location for a quick burst of damage, but even 1 enemy being 25 meters~ around you will spawn some tornadoes on him instead. You can try modding for negative Ability Range to shrink that spawn area but that just gimps Turbulence and Airburst coverage.

And yeah, tornadoes tend to scatter and wander apart.

You don't have to go negative.  No less than 50 and you're fine for controlling tornadoes and can still deflect projectiles.  Below 46% range or so and you'll start taking fire from normal projectiles.  At that range though, explosions will hit you and kill you if they hit.

[Terrornaut]

Here. I recorded this test day one post zeph changes basically, and have been running with this kind of setup in sorties, on plains, etc.  Its practical and reliable when it needs to be.  Do you ever need 800-1200% damage on one single target? No.  For a small group, or crowds, this decimates.  You have to learn some quick timing, gauge projectile distance and time to cast tornadoes, etc, but, it becomes reliable after a bit of practice.

[Pixues]

Telos Boltace

Edited March 23, 2018 by Pixues

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 23.3.2018 um 02:16 schrieb yles9056:

I tried it in a sortie 2 survival before. The tornadoes are all over the place. It would be great if there's a way to group enemies together.

This is a good reason to bring back Divebomb Vortex augment and give it to Air Burst.

Meh, each tornado tracks enemys, each of them sets status, all of them can be attacked at once with certain weapons... it can be a strong multiplier, a tool to set status or one to simply damage foes.... they even obstruct hostile bullets so what more can you wish for. It's also the one playtstyle that works really well with low range. 

Was there a movement to nerf it or what is this about? Cause i don't quite see a reason eather to nerf something over unrealistic scenarios.

[DeathGold]

18 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

Here. I recorded this test day one post zeph changes basically, and have been running with this kind of setup in sorties, on plains, etc.  Its practical and reliable when it needs to be.  Do you ever need 800-1200% damage on one single target? No.  For a small group, or crowds, this decimates.  You have to learn some quick timing, gauge projectile distance and time to cast tornadoes, etc, but, it becomes reliable after a bit of practice.

nice demonstration of how it can be powerful as you said it's pretty RnG because tornados tend to avoir targeting the same enemy  and as i can see in your video there are almost only 2-3 tornados in range of attacking the heavy guneer wich is pretty nice and provide some nice procs i'm pretty sure that way is the most viable way of using tornados not focus on the damage (cos like you said do you ever need 800%-1200% damage buff ? ) and more on the corrosive procs or gas/toxin/viral procs you could be getting from it 

10 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Was there a movement to nerf it or what is this about? Cause i don't quite see a reason eather to nerf something over unrealistic scenarios.

and well since tactical potato did a video on it and i guess he didn't understand why that is happening he called it buggy and all and people started yelling about a nerf incoming and all that's why i did this topic , to show that it shouldn't be changed at all !!

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb DeathGold:

 

and well since tactical potato did a video on it and i guess he didn't understand why that is happening he called it buggy and all and people started yelling about a nerf incoming and all that's why i did this topic , to show that it shouldn't be changed at all !!

My god...i mean i appreciate that youtubers provide guidance but that's just grabbing for attention.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

ok, yes its cool and not likely to happy in general combat due to the stupid things flying everywhere after a few seconds.

 

but.... well do the same thing in those videos but with a Gas Ignis.

 

the game... lags to a halt.

 

the high fire rate and high status chance on ignis wraith, coupled with the fact that the only procs are AOEs that apply a DOT, each tornado is not just reflecting the damage of each other, but also the AOE procs each enemy is sending out several times a second.