Banshee Should Be Mobile During Her Ultimate

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

I do like the aesthetics of the banshee's ultimate but to actual make use of what her ultimate does, namely stagger enemies, it prevents you from taking advantage of this unless you have teammates who can kill the enemies which are staggered for banshee can't move while the ultimate is taking affect. If she could be mobile during her ultimate combined with sonar. A person could take advantage of this greatly and do a lot of damage to enemies by hitting their marked weak spots while during the ultimate's staggering affect.

 

I don't see this as being overpowered neither. Rhino is still mobile during his ultimate and his' literally makes the enemy immobile for a few seconds.

[DiBBz]

banshee is in a perfect balance atm , she does not need any tweaking what so ever , with her sonic boom all ready got a buff / update to it , it put her in a perfect balance

 

so i cant agree with this idea , its your own fault if you think you can rush straight in there and use her ultimate just to get a chance and killing everyone instead of taking your time , shes not that type of warframe , use her wisely the same with her ability

 

going sonar and having a mobile ultimate for banshee would mean rushers heaven all over again

 

There's nothing to change on Banshee !
Activate her ultimate wisely with a good location and a correct timing.

Edited August 11, 2013 by DiBBz

[MoustacheMike]

There's nothing to change on Banshee !

Activate her ultimate wisely with a good location and a correct timing.

[Hallorann]

Try Ember, she might be more your thang

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

banshee is in a perfect balance atm , she does not need any tweaking what so ever , with her sonic boom all ready got a buff / update to it , it put her in a perfect balance

 

so i cant agree with this idea , its your own fault if you think you can rush straight in there and use her ultimate just to get a chance and killing everyone instead of taking your time , shes not that type of warframe , use her wisely the same with her ability

 

going sonar and having a mobile ultimate for banshee would mean rushers heaven all over again

Its not about rushing, its about taking advantage of her staggering affect during her ultimate, which you can't do if you don't have teammates. Sure it can stop a horde of enemies for a few seconds while they are charging you, but than what? On high level enemies, the damage isn't going to kill enemies and you are basically a sitting duck once the animation is over. If you can be mobile during this, you can take advantage of the stagger instead of stopping the enemy for five seconds than its back to them swarming you again.

[Soluh]

The only thing I think could possibly need changing about banshee: Silence

[Alighierian]

Its not about rushing, its about taking advantage of her staggering affect during her ultimate, which you can't do if you don't have teammates. Sure it can stop a horde of enemies for a few seconds while they are charging you, but than what? On high level enemies, the damage isn't going to kill enemies and you are basically a sitting duck once the animation is over. If you can be mobile during this, you can take advantage of the stagger instead of stopping the enemy for five seconds than its back to them swarming you again.

 

if you're solo and you have people charging you: sonic boom. max it out and it has pretty good range, even without stretch

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

if you're solo and you have people charging you: sonic boom. max it out and it has pretty good range, even without stretch

I'm not talking about a way to stop enemies for a second when they are swarming me. I have used her sonic boom on max and yes it is nice to stop swarming enemies, but I'm talking of a way to compliment her powers with one another. Having a mobile sound quake with sonar would be a great way to take advantage of the affects of sonar, but again you can't do this unless you have teammates making having the stagger effects useless since once the animation is done its back to them shooting or swarming you again if you are playing solo. 

Edited August 11, 2013 by bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib

[modded]

People who think Sound Quake is just fine either don't have Banshee, haven't used her since the SQ nerf, or have never used Miasma/Rhino Stomp/Molecular Prime. Unless they believe those 3 powers need a nerf, which I strongly disagree with.

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

banshee is in a perfect balance atm , she does not need any tweaking what so ever , with her sonic boom all ready got a buff / update to it , it put her in a perfect balance

 

so i cant agree with this idea , its your own fault if you think you can rush straight in there and use her ultimate just to get a chance and killing everyone instead of taking your time , shes not that type of warframe , use her wisely the same with her ability

 

going sonar and having a mobile ultimate for banshee would mean rushers heaven all over again

If you are implying that I suggested that her ultimate be a press 4 AOE blast that kills everything, than you missed my point entirely. I suggested a way to compliment her abilities, for playing solo makes her sound quake almost useless for you can't move so after the animation is over they are back to shooting you again. Also how would this make it a "rushers heaven" btw? So this would make it a rushers heaven but the effects of vauban's bastille and rhino's stomp effect don't, yet they do the exact same thing as to what I suggested.

[Eirshy]

In terms of balancing, a frame cannot be balanced if any skill is abject useless. Silence currently serves no real purpose. And even with a stealth rework, SIlence will continue to be useless, as it itself is not implemented in a very effective manner.

 

 

Anyways, the suggestion has nothing to do with rushing, it has everything to do with the fact that SELF-CC IS NEVER FUN.

 

Also a note, Quake is straight up out-perfomed by Rhino Stomp, which has better damage (armor bypassing), longer range (by 2 meters base), longer disable (9 seconds vs 7 seconds; and scales with Continuity), better disable ("stasis" rather than stagger), and no self-CC. About the onlyt hing Stomp doesn't have on Quake is being able to acquire new targets as they walk into the area. Which would be useful if Quake was a little less demolished in everything else in comparison.

 

 

Not saying quake is bad, just saying it's not overly fun to use.

 

People who think Sound Quake is just fine either don't have Banshee, haven't used her since the SQ nerf, or have never used Miasma/Rhino Stomp/Molecular Prime. Unless they believe those 3 powers need a nerf, which I strongly disagree with.

 

Primer isn't as OP as people think it is (they always look at it from a standpoint of vs zergrush, and it's an ability *desgined* to be anti-zergrush).

Miasma is completely out-classed by Rhino Stomp as well, but compared to SQ they're in two different roles (Miasma is aoe nuke, SQ is aoe denial).

[Eirshy]

going sonar and having a mobile ultimate for banshee would mean rushers heaven all over again

 

Good rusher abilities:

 

-Ash's Smoke Bomb

-Banshee's Sonic Boom (with Stretch)

-Ember's Overheat and WoF

-Excaliber's Slash Dash

-Loki's Invisibility, Decoy, and Switch Tele

-Mag's Pull

-Nova's Molec Primer, Wormhole, and Null Star

-Nyx's Chaos and Mind Control

-Rhino's Stomp, Charge, and Iron Skin

-Saryn's Molt and Miasma

-Vauban's Bastille and Vortex

-Volt's Speed (team rush ability, actually)

 

About the only frames that don't have good rushing ability are Frost and Trinity.

 

And everyone can rush effectively if they have Dual Zorens.

 

 

Not sure how freeing banshee of the self-CC would make her a rusher's heaven compared to say, Ember or Loki.

Edited August 11, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[DiBBz]

Good rusher abilities:

 

-Ash's Smoke Bomb

-Banshee's Sonic Boom (with Stretch)

-Ember's Overheat and WoF

-Excaliber's Slash Dash

-Loki's Invisibility, Decoy, and Switch Tele

-Mag's Pull

-Nova's Molec Primer, Wormhole, and Null Star

-Nyx's Chaos and Mind Control

-Rhino's Stomp, Charge, and Iron Skin

-Saryn's Molt and Miasma

-Vauban's Bastille and Vortex

-Volt's Speed (team rush ability, actually)

 

About the only frames that don't have good rushing ability are Frost and Trinity.

 

And everyone can rush effectively if they have Dual Zorens.

 

 

Not sure how freeing banshee of the self-CC would make her a rusher's heaven compared to say, Ember or Loki.

 

seriously banshees sound quake staggers anyone hit by it and hes saying he wants her mobile , so take for example embers world on fire and how shes still normal mobility but do the same with banshee , that would be rushers heaven trust me banshee is pretty fast stock on its own

 

so your still saying that would not be rushers heaven , also half those ability you said are totally wrong for rushing.. wondering if you even know what rushing is

 

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

seriously banshees sound quake staggers anyone hit by it and hes saying he wants her mobile , so take for example embers world on fire and how shes still normal mobility but do the same with banshee , that would be rushers heaven trust me banshee is pretty fast stock on its own

 

so your still saying that would not be rushers heaven , also half those ability you said are totally wrong for rushing.. wondering if you even know what rushing is

 

Again, rhino's ultimate makes EVERYTHING (including bosses) immobile for a few seconds and rhino can still move after yet this hasn't made warframe a "rusher's heaven". Vauban can still move during bastille yet that doesn't' make it a "rusher's heaven". What I'm suggesting is the same thing yet when banshee could be capable of this it makes using her a "rusher's heaven". This ability doesn't make warframe a "rusher's heaven". These examples make your argument pointless for there are warframes that already have these types of abilities and can still be mobile during them yet it hasn't made this into a game breaking rush fest. Your argument is simply wrong. 

Edited August 11, 2013 by bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib

[Verazix]

banshee is in a perfect balance atm , she does not need any tweaking what so ever , with her sonic boom all ready got a buff / update to it , it put her in a perfect balance

 

so i cant agree with this idea , its your own fault if you think you can rush straight in there and use her ultimate just to get a chance and killing everyone instead of taking your time , shes not that type of warframe , use her wisely the same with her ability

 

going sonar and having a mobile ultimate for banshee would mean rushers heaven all over again

Banshee's Sonic Boom does not warrant any state of balance at all. It's "good" but it's by no means great. It's basically a weaker Rhino Charge that can't be used for mobility but puts you in less danger (theoretically anyway), with a slightly larger arc. Sonar would have been better justification to balance, and even then it's pretty obvious you're just against any change to Banshee (she has the most worthless ability in game, even worse than post-nerf Iron Skin, which got an entire Warframe reworked because of his popularity).

 

seriously banshees sound quake staggers anyone hit by it and hes saying he wants her mobile , so take for example embers world on fire and how shes still normal mobility but do the same with banshee , that would be rushers heaven trust me banshee is pretty fast stock on its own

so your still saying that would not be rushers heaven , also half those ability you said are totally wrong for rushing.. wondering if you even know what rushing is

Your obvious bias is kind of disgusting, really; World on Fire does stun, since you know, fire stuns, and Rhino Stomp is highly mobile and nearly one shots everything while putting any heavy enemy into a state of stasis, with a superior range to even Sound Quake.

Sound Quake should not be made into a mobile ability (because as much as I hate to agree with him, DiBBz is right about it being situationally overpowered completely mobile), it should either be shortened in duration or made into a "turret" that comes from the point of origin. I'd prefer to see armor reworked or Sound Quake turned into at least a partially armor ignoring ultimate.

Silence is also the worst ability in game, and Sonar, while extremely powerful, is not a reason to completely overlook Banshee. One bad ability got Rhino nearly entirely reworked into the single best all-around frame in game, when his bad ability was still far superior to Silence (then again, what isn't? Super Jump can be used for mobility at least).

Sigh, I should just stay away from these forums. Half the community wants every ability to be completely overpowered, and the other half wants their favorite frames to become Gods while purposely ignoring, or even attacking, other frame's abilities.

Edit: Actually, scratch that. Sound Quake being mobile wouldn't be overpowered at all. Ignoring enemies would be like... Going Invisible/Using Overheat and just simply ignoring them. You know, abilities that cost far less than Sound Quake does, and last far longer. Sound Quake's paltry damage won't really matter against anything hard (you know, anything with armor), so it wouldn't be overpowered at all. I don't know what I was thinking.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Verazix

[bryanfury_vas_Qwib_Qwib]

Banshee's Sonic Boom does not warrant any state of balance at all. It's "good" but it's by no means great. It's basically a weaker Rhino Charge that can't be used for mobility but puts you in less danger (theoretically anyway), with a slightly larger arc. Sonar would have been better justification to balance, and even then it's pretty obvious you're just against any change to Banshee (she has the most worthless ability in game, even worse than post-nerf Iron Skin, which got an entire Warframe reworked because of his popularity).

 

Your obvious bias is kind of disgusting, really; World on Fire does stun, since you know, fire stuns, and Rhino Stomp is highly mobile and nearly one shots everything while putting any heavy enemy into a state of stasis, with a superior range to even Sound Quake.

Sound Quake should not be made into a mobile ability (because as much as I hate to agree with him, DiBBz is right about it being situationally overpowered completely mobile), it should either be shortened in duration or made into a "turret" that comes from the point of origin. I'd prefer to see armor reworked or Sound Quake turned into at least a partially armor ignoring ultimate.

Silence is also the worst ability in game, and Sonar, while extremely powerful, is not a reason to completely overlook Banshee. One bad ability got Rhino nearly entirely reworked into the single best all-around frame in game, when his bad ability was still far superior to Silence (then again, what isn't? Super Jump can be used for mobility at least).

Sigh, I should just stay away from these forums. Half the community wants every ability to be completely overpowered, and the other half wants their favorite frames to become Gods while purposely ignoring, or even attacking, other frame's abilities.

Edit: Actually, scratch that. Sound Quake being mobile wouldn't be overpowered at all. Ignoring enemies would be like... Going Invisible/Using Overheat and just simply ignoring them. You know, abilities that cost far less than Sound Quake does, and last far longer. Sound Quake's paltry damage won't really matter against anything hard (you know, anything with armor), so it wouldn't be overpowered at all. I don't know what I was thinking.

This, there are warframes that can already bypass nearly everything with abilities that cost less and are more effective than sound quake, and that wasn't even the reason why I suggested that sound quake should be mobile. I suggested it as to make it more useful. Also, I'm not suggesting this to make banshee "god-tier" or because she's my favorite. I suggested this simply to make sound quake a little bit more useful.

[Verazix]

This, there are warframes that can already bypass nearly everything with abilities that cost less and are more effective than sound quake, and that wasn't even the reason why I suggested that sound quake should be mobile. I suggested it as to make it more useful. Also, I'm not suggesting this to make banshee "god-tier" or because she's my favorite. I suggested this simply to make sound quake a little bit more useful.

Oh no, I wasn't attacking you. If you check my past post/topic history, you'll see a post I made where I was questioning DE's balance of skills, and how most people said "ability balance doesn't matter since you don't even need them to clear things." So don't feel a need to defend yourself, I think your idea is quite legitimate since I have similar complaints to Banshee's Sound Quake (which I have yet another topic on in the past), and her going mobile is something I hadn't considered (and still have mixed feelings about, tbh), but I don't feel you're asking to give her a long term invulnerability move on top of amazing CC/Damage (which tbh, she's outclassed in both; I see Sonar more as group utility, and it's weaker against trash than Ultimates are).

Primer isn't as OP as people think it is (they always look at it from a standpoint of vs zergrush, and it's an ability *desgined* to be anti-zergrush).

Miasma is completely out-classed by Rhino Stomp as well, but compared to SQ they're in two different roles (Miasma is aoe nuke, SQ is aoe denial).

Just saw this. Prime is uh... Probably nearly as overpowered as Rhino Stomp. It makes enemies take double damage, and halves their movement speed. I'd say that alone is already a fantastic ultimate, throw on the explosions that also do great damage, and you have a really, really powerful Ultimate.

[Eirshy]

seriously banshees sound quake staggers anyone hit by it and hes saying he wants her mobile , so take for example embers world on fire and how shes still normal mobility but do the same with banshee , that would be rushers heaven trust me banshee is pretty fast stock on its own

 

so your still saying that would not be rushers heaven , also half those ability you said are totally wrong for rushing.. wondering if you even know what rushing is

 

A good "rushing" ability is one that has a large AoE CC that allows you to instantly disable enemies, has a self-buff that allows you to ignore enemies, or has a dash that allows you to quickly get past enemies.

 

All of those listed "rushing" things contain one of those three effects.

 

 

Just saw this. Prime is uh... Probably nearly as overpowered as Rhino Stomp. It makes enemies take double damage, and halves their movement speed. I'd say that alone is already a fantastic ultimate, throw on the explosions that also do great damage, and you have a really, really powerful Ultimate.

 

Woah, when'd it start halving movement speed O_O I literally never noticed that.

 

The double damage was more to support chain reactions and give it a use against smaller groups. It's on par with Rhino Stomp in a sense that it tries to do everything all at once. It still really only succeeds at it vs zergrushes, as Roar (half the bonus, longer effect, not target-reliant) and Sonar (longer radius, massively larger effect, but requires something like 4 hits out of 11 bullets to out-damage MP's bonus) are better amps.

 

 

I could get behind a "nerf" making the damage dealt by the explosions based on a percentage of the maximum health of the target that exploded.

And removing the slow. Seriously, why does it slow, I didn't even know it could XD

 

Would actually be a veiled buff, really, as it'd suddenly scale into the last few waves of Tower 3 Defense. Y'know, instead of currently, where it'll clear trash after you kill 3 or 4 of them, and absolutely nothing else.

Edited August 12, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[TheInfiniteDoom]

The problem with this idea is that Sound Quake is not that kind of ability. You are not the person who's supposed to be making use of the stun. Your Team is supposed to make use of your ultimate. At low levels, if you're solo-ing, you'll have no problem busting heads with the power of sound. It's basically a big, room-clearing panic button. At higher levels, or on Defense missions, what it becomes is a "SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING." button. In a mission like that, all of your abilities are made for support. You can Fus-Ro-Dah enemies off of the objective, or clear yourself a path if you really need to. Silence lets you and your team whale on enemies who haven't seen you without consequence, and it may have some form of aggro-reducing utility to it as well. I'm blindly guessing, but reducing the enemy's awareness of your attacks should happen regardless of their alertedness, meaning that enemies might continue rushing objectives while your team damages them. This might allow you to set up choke points and lure enemies into obvious deathtraps, or take the aggro off of teammates when they need a breather. I don't use it often, I'm not an expert. If nothing else, it's a go-to ability for solo runs. Sonar allows Your Team to deal increased damage to enemies by shooting the glowy bits. Finally, that brings us to sound quake, which holds enemies in place and deals light-medium damage to them over time. You can already set Your Team up for a storm of damage-dealing by combining these abilities. You do not need to join in as well, that takes an already useful and pretty powerful ability and turns it into something OP. At that point, you would never need to use anything else. Just hit sound quake, and you're dealing damage to everything in the room along with any damage you put out with your guns/melee. It's too much all at once, and Ember already does pretty much that. The difference between the frames is that Ember can move and take damage with her, while Banshee deals a little less damage and loses her mobility in exchange for increased range and mobility/attack denial on a crowd of enemies. Don't forget, this ability stops the affected mobs from moving and attacking. That's a pretty good setup for your teammates. Combined with Sonar, all the enemies are sitting ducks, literally sporting giant glowing weak spots.

[Phoenix86]

I think only Silence needs to be reworked... ok maybe Sound Quake deserve a lil buff considering armor scaling but so a lot of other Ultis need.

 

To sum it up Banshee is in a good spot and other frame have the priority

[S3raph]

 The difference between the frames is that Ember can move and take damage with her, while Banshee deals a little less damage and loses her mobility in exchange for increased range and mobility/attack denial on a crowd of enemies. Don't forget, this ability stops the affected mobs from moving and attacking. 

 

First, I would suggest using the Enter button. That wall of text was painful to read.

 

Secondly, are you sure that's the way it works? I'm new to Banshee (have only been playing her for a couple of days) but I was doing Xini defense and while I was doing Sound Quake a disrupter still managed to get to me and take away all my energy.

[Mikki79]

Sound Quake is underpowered, it does no damage to high armored targets. Some say it's "awesome" for crowd control but 100 energy for a 7 second CC is ridiculously bad energy investment. Not to mention you can't do anything yourself while you are CCing. Sonar is her only good ability. 

 

I have all warframes except excalibur atm, my Banshee is not supercharged and won't be any time soon. Only got 2 Orokin Reactors atm. My only potatoed warframes atm are "Mag (was my 1st), Saryn, Rhino, Frost, Trinity and Nova". If I'd supercharge anything atm it would probably be Nyx or Vauban.

 

Banshee sucks, only useful for providing Sonar to groups doing high wave defense missions.

[krisp]

Rhino can hold people in the air and move around, yes, but Rhino's ult is overpowered. Do we really want to make everything the same as Rhino's ult?

[Verazix]

I could get behind a "nerf" making the damage dealt by the explosions based on a percentage of the maximum health of the target that exploded.

And removing the slow. Seriously, why does it slow, I didn't even know it could XD

I don't really want it nerfed, I just wanted to throw out it's as powerful as Rhino Stomp is.

Gives opinion, states it as fact in a very wall-of-text manner.

Thanks for your opinion on the matter, the entire point was that it's eclipsed as an ultimate by others, and that's it not fun. Not that it's "OMG BAD SO TERRIBLE QQ." This is when people should read more and rant less.

Your anecdotal observations and blatant conjectures holds no bearing in this conversation where instead of CC + Sonar most abilities can simply one shot the entire mass of enemies to begin with, yet that somehow isn't overpowered, while a combination of abilities that costs more would somehow be. In high end defense you'd need a powerful CC/defensive ability, and that would be the only time I could see it even warranting a questionable return, which I'm somehow doubting since you normally just sit in Snow Globe and use more powerful abilities, or Chaos, or you know, some other, better CC.

I think only Silence needs to be reworked... ok maybe Sound Quake deserve a lil buff considering armor scaling but so a lot of other Ultis need.

To sum it up Banshee is in a good spot and other frame have the priority

This is your opinion, kind of like most of this thread. It's ok to have an opinion, it's not ok to use your opinion as fact or justification to ignore other feedback. Banshee (through my eyes, as in -my- opinion) is one of the mediocre frames. She has one blatantly amazing and potentially overpowered ability that actually requires some level of intelligence and skill to pull off, then has a mediocre ultimate that stuns her to stun everything around her, and can't kill anything that has armor past level 40. Then she has the worst ability in the game, the entire game. So it's completely alright for people to come in here and cry about Silence, and bring up their concerns for Sound Quake, it doesn't put any other frame on the back burner and the "in a good spot" card is horrible to use on a frame that has a completely worthless ability. Plus, this is a feedback thread, expect a lot of feedback, whether you agree or don't agree (just like I'm disagreeing with your attempt to disregard this post because you believe she's great).

Please, next time you come into a post to justify why something should or should not happen, give valid comparisons of data. A good example would be posts like Jelly's where you compare it directly to other "similar" abilities. While it's powerful in it's own right, it's definitely lacking compared to the higher end of ultimate abilities.

Secondly, are you sure that's the way it works? I'm new to Banshee (have only been playing her for a couple of days) but I was doing Xini defense and while I was doing Sound Quake a disrupter still managed to get to me and take away all my energy.

That sounds like a latency issue, it definitely doesn't happen to me when I'm hosting, and it's area denial is second to none. Sound Quake isn't a terrible ability like many will lead you into believing. On the contrary, just like every other fourth ability, it's incredibly powerful. It's just that it's not as incredibly powerful as other people's shiny fourth ability that makes people want it changed (which I can't blame them for at all).

Rhino can hold people in the air and move around, yes, but Rhino's ult is overpowered. Do we really want to make everything the same as Rhino's ult?

That's your opinion. Rhino's ultimate was changed quite some time ago and hasn't been changed since, meaning the Devs either feel it's in a good place, or not so overpowered that it's game breaking and can be tuned later. In either case, as Jelly already said, it's eclipsing every single situation of Sound Quake with the exception of area denial, which isn't as big a deal since Rhino Stomp just kind of one shots everything anyway. Even if only one part of Sound Quake was changed, it'd STILL be far less powerful than Rhino Stomp. No one wants to turn it into Rhino Stomp, they just want it to not be Rhino Stomp Jr.

[krisp]

That's your opinion. Rhino's ultimate was changed quite some time ago and hasn't been changed since, meaning the Devs either feel it's in a good place, or not so overpowered that it's game breaking and can be tuned later. In either case, as Jelly already said, it's eclipsing every single situation of Sound Quake with the exception of area denial, which isn't as big a deal since Rhino Stomp just kind of one shots everything anyway. Even if only one part of Sound Quake was changed, it'd STILL be far less powerful than Rhino Stomp. No one wants to turn it into Rhino Stomp, they just want it to not be Rhino Stomp Jr.

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on the dev reaction speed on Warframe abilities. It took like 6 months for them to finally realize Rhino could be permanently invincible...