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[DE]Megan

Shrine of the Eidolon: Update 22.17.0 + 22.17.0.1

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At 200 the only incentive to play this mode is when every other kuva mission node Is Exhausted and we are waiting for them to refresh.

On average in Solo mode it took me approximately Three minutes and twenty five seconds  (3:25)  per mission including floods at 3:50

The lowest Kuva I could get per Normal Kuva mission is 550  in roughly 3:25

The lowest Kuva I could get per Flood Kuva mission is 1100 in roughly 3:50

Life support is dropped every one minute and thirty seconds (1:30) roughly.

With a full squad is set up to not need life support and can Kuva each life support capsule they receive for 200 kuva in 1 minutes time (1:00)

Because we are limited to life support capsule spawns we get 200 every 1:30.

 

(No resource booster will be applied to these numbers as it only changes the minimum and maximum value but not the actual ratio.)

 

Kuva Survival-----------------------------400 Kuva maximum in 3:00

Normal Kuva missions -----------------550 Kuva Minimum in 3:25

Normal Kuva Missions Average------625 Kuva Average in 3:25

Normal Kuva Missions Maximum----700 Kuva Maximum in 3:25

KUVA FLOOD-----------------------------1100 Kuva Minimum in 3:50

KUVA FLOOD-----------------------------1250 Kuva Average in 3:50

KUVA FLOOD-----------------------------1400 Kuva Maximum in 3:50

 

Kuva survival does not currently stand up to DE's claim to be a middle ground between regular mission and Kuva Floods.

I am not the most efficient person out there but with my 4 man group we could do this even faster in every mission but kuva survival. 

 

I just want to put my opinion out there that the numbers still need some tweaking to make kuva survival more appealing of an option.

A flat base amount awarded increase would be a nice change and an easy one at that. Making it 300 would line this up right under an average kuva run of 625.

A scaling change based on time increments would also be nice. Not just because of our time invested in a single mission but because the enemies get harder to kill the longer we go on. In the case of power gamers such as my 4 man group we could easily stay in well over a few hours and the scaling would become more and more to the point where there should be a cap on the scaling, less we never need kuva again after that day. 

 

This has been my objectified findings in my research and testing of this matter. I would love to hear any additional information anyone else has collected.

 

In no way is this to insult or belittle DE's decisions. These are only my personal findings on the matter.

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Most people seem to be focusing on the endless Kuva, but honestly, I'm just glad Grineer Commanders finally got changed. The look of bewilderment upon teleporting lasted way too long, especially against high level enemies.

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The endless kuvai Idea really is great but the reward to time spent is awful. If you do normal kuva missions you can get so much more kuva over the same course of time. A great idea would be to either double the kuva per filter to 400 or to increase the amount of kuva by 50 or so for every rotation or filter you complete.

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I get that DE doesn't want to replace kuva siphon/flood farming with endless kuva but to just supplement the down time whenever a player has already done all the kuva siphon/flood missions. The problem is, to me, you shouldn't be saying it's "endless" kuva because to me when you say endless everything should scale as you go in longer into the mission including the rewards. What I don't get is why you stopped incentivizing players who are willing to go the extra mile/hour into a mission and actually face enemies that are scaled to a level where their frames and weapons with rivens(fully minmaxed) be utilizied as it was built to do.

 

A few of Lotus' voice lines in a Survival is "The longer you fight, the more successful we will be."  but that isn't really the case is it? Here's another one, "We will all share in this bounty. Hold out as long as you can." why would I? When I can just restart the mission make it easier on myself for the same reward. I might as well just run a mobile defense mission that could give me kuva as well and still have the same result but without the enemies scaling up.

We've already voiced our opinion, we want kuva to scale, how you execute that is up to you. But PLEASE make it worth our time to actually do an endless run.

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Thoughts on Survival so far:

This is a reasonable start, needs some bug fixing and adjustments, but otherwise pretty reasonable. How can you make it better? Kuva rewards need to scale.

Current reward per capsule is 200 Kuva. Let's use 650 as base reward for Kuva Siphon and 1300 for Kuva Flood.

Here's some numbers:

5 minute Survival cycle awards 800 Kuva, takes about 6 minutes to run, ~160 K/min.

Single Siphon awards 650 Kuva, takes about 4 minutes to run, ~160 K/min.

Single Flood awards 1300 Kuva, takes about 5 minutes to run, ~260 K/min.

After an hour of Survival enemies are about equal to Flood enemies.

 

So, I think it would be reasonable if after an hour average reward per minute scaled from about Siphon levels to about Flood levels and capped at, say 2 hours.

Suggestions I heard so far:

  • Award 10x enemy level Kuva per capsule and cap out at level 150 - IMO, reasonable, but needs a little lower multiplier, say 6-7 to keep initial rewards at about current level.
  • Increase reward per capsule by 50 Kuva every 10-15 minutes - good idea, assuming 4 capsules per 5 min and 10 min scaling:
    • ~1600 Kuva for first 10 minutes
    • ~2000 Kuva for next 10 minutes
    • ~2400 Kuva for 20-30 minutes
    • ~2800 Kuva for 30-40 minutes
    • ~3200 Kuva for 40-50 minutes
    • ~3600 Kuva for 50-60 minutes
    • Total of 15600 Kuva (~260 Kuva per minute, provided you can do 48 capsules, in reality you will get way less - about 36-40)
  • Increase reward for every next capsule by, say 10 Kuva:
    • Assuming 40 total capsules (200 + 10*(40-1)/2)*40 = 15800 total Kuva
    • Assuming 1 hour duration 15800/60 ~ 263 Kuva per minute

These are first suggestions I heard of with some of my comments.

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To point, the new Kuva survival thing is still very unrewarding for the time investment. You can knock out pretty much any kuva mission in the same time for at least twice as much kuva. You can also go to the plains and if you're lucky enough pick up kuva for pretty much any/all the legs and still end up with more kuva for probably less time investment. Given the difficulty of the area and the mission type, the kuva reward needs to be picked up to something around 500 rather than the 200 just to make it worth even looking at.

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Pretty sure the Inaros skin's bugged, has a weird sheen to it and doesn't match the launcher/market preview icons. The blacks shown in the previews are literally impossible to obtain with any colour-palette.

edit: And the market preview begins at the wrong side.

 

Digging the update, TY for the endless kuva!

Edited by DoctorBagPhD
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Endless Kuva is pretty disappointing at the moment, 30m for 8k - 8.4k with a booster, should be 800, or at least 600 with a booster, meaning half that without. Either that, or scaling 25 or 50 kuva base per siphon capping out at 600 or so without booster. so 200, 225, 250, 275, 300, 325.... to 600 or something like that. But in general it doesn't really demand my attention as I can get more from 30m with floods and siphons.

Edited by SpehssNeenja
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Tintable Shadow Sralker is jostling my jimmies and I AM MIGHTY INTRIGUED!

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Since the kuva does not scale on the missions just make the rerolling not scale either at all. roll 1 cost 900 and every reroll should only cost 900. Better yet make rivenrolls a choise.

1. what weapon 2k kuva

2. all stats 1k kuva

3. one stat 2k kuva

4. corner symbol 500 kuva

5. weapon type (melee, secondary or primary) 2k kuva

By the way i really passionatly hate the whole riven system with a passion because of all the (insert really colourfull adjective here) randomness!

Please make extractors able to freefarm kuva so i dont have to. Please.... please

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6 minutes ago, thalminion said:

Since the kuva does not scale on the missions just make the rerolling not scale either at all. roll 1 cost 900 and every reroll should only cost 900. Better yet make rivenrolls a choise.

1. what weapon 2k kuva

2. all stats 1k kuva

3. one stat 2k kuva

4. corner symbol 500 kuva

5. weapon type (melee, secondary or primary) 2k kuva

By the way i really passionatly hate the whole riven system with a passion because of all the (insert really colourfull adjective here) randomness!

Please make extractors able to freefarm kuva so i dont have to. Please.... please

i like this idea.. XD

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6 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Commanders went from one of the only enemy types that could do anything to the player, to nothing.  Now it's pretty much impossible for a Commander to do anything to a player.

 

6 hours ago, Thundervision said:

Bursa, Manic, Nullifiers, now it's Commander's turn.

The story of crybabies crying for challenge and then crying because they can't steamroll it, or have to press more than 2 buttons. Guess, the next ones are Scrambus/Comba guys & gals.

How dare DE add some counterplay to the most ridiculously cheap unit... Are you guys for real? Commanders were no challenge. They were an annoyance. Random teleport and stunlock for 3 seconds, pff. Also there is no challenge with practically infinite revives.

6 hours ago, WhiteCr0w said:

400 Kuva every 3-4 minutes is going to rack up much faster in ONE mission than reloading and extracting over and over in another one. Why are people being so dumb now? It's an echo chamber in here.

I don't know why you are... Anyway, that's implying that this "ONE mission" doesn't scale in enemy strength or that towers can't be lost. Kuva siphons can be speedran through for overall easier and faster kuva gains. Why would i want to go through the hassle of stronger enemies and having to defend a tower for a mediocre kuva gain? DE needs to finally learn to balance difficulty with proper rewards.

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40 minutes 4000 kuva without booster but with smeeta!. so its not really between siphon and flood. its pretty much exactly on par with siphon. for it to be in between siphon and flood the reward should either be 400-500 or scaling. id prefer scaling tbh. 

but to the really important question. 

will it be possible to get a survival fissure on this map and open relics+farm kuva at the same time?

Edited by bananao
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with the fix to commanders, i hope the disrupter/healer hook hands are being looked at. I mean it's been a few years!!!

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Oh cool, I've been looking forward to new stuff to leve...

Nevermind.

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