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Shrine of the Eidolon: Update 22.17.0 + 22.17.0.1

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4 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

How dare DE add some counterplay to the most ridiculously cheap unit...

What counterplay?  There is no play in the first place since you will be doing the things that get you out of teleportation all the time anyway.  

4 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Also there is no challenge with practically infinite revives.

This isn't a good thing, but WF has steadily been turning into a mobile-game-style resource management game over the years anyway.  

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1 hour ago, Tarak said:

No, that would just mean that no one would want to do siphons anymore, and then, why would they be in the game? If you don't think it's worth it to you, don't run the mission.

It's been stated plenty that the risk/reward just isn't worth it to stay for longer than necessary. What could be done is to make the Kuva reward scaling, but only really profitable (better than floods) after a sufficiently long time, like 2-3 hours. That's when enemies start to scale hard and they just have to look at you to kill you. That and the nature of the Kuva extractors making the mission essentially impossible to afk or just sit in a corner would be a nice and welcome challenge. Rivens are optional content. If they lose some worth because you can roll them more, who cares? DE has shown that they don't care by making Arcanes extremely easy to obtain with Eidolons, in addition to removing trials. It crashed the Arcane market on announcement alone.

Edited by uxx0
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11 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Endless Kuva doesn't scale and has no incentive for players to push harder? There is no reason to touch this gamemode as a Flood is more efficient. It is like playing a Defense Fissure for 1 hour, or 1 hour worth of Exterminate Fissures. It took over a year for Kuva to actually make it to the Fortress and it doesn't offer any reason to push yourself.

Back to Rainbow Six: Siege it is.

Yeah, it would be awesome to have Kuva drops scale (and I would approve of it to an extent), but I guarantee it would push a really unhealthy meta. You were around back in Void 1.0, you have to remember those cheesy-ass tactics you saw players pull and excuse for standard gameplay, encouraged by the fact that it was more efficient to do so. Now, not everyone has to do this and the defense of a Kuva Extractor would mitigate some of the old-Void cheese, but for the reason of not rewarding that cheese, DE is right to approach scaling with caution.

What I want to know is, apart from "muh grind", how do you feel about the gamemode itself? Resource numbers aside, what do you think of the mission and how it plays? Unless you haven't played it because it's not as efficient as Floods. But hey, if you don't want to leave more constructive feedback, go enjoy RSS.

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Dear DE,

People are demanding endless Kuva that scales. I would say if that hasn't become clear by now, it never will. You said that your intent was to have Kuva survival to be in between siphon and flood, which is ok i guess. But people already have demonstrated that it is worse (in Kuva/min) that siphon missions and only makes sense once you run out of siphon and flood missions to go. So here are a few suggestions on how it should scale (as stated, it really should scale in order to make sense):

-Kuva rewards should start in Kuva survival where YOU intended them to start: between siphon and flood, not below siphon (or at least at siphon level)

-as Kuva floods are level 80-100 missions, scale the Kuva rewards in Kuva survival that by the time enemies hit level 80-100 in it, the Kuva/min equals Kuva flood missions (this means that Kuva flood missions are still the fastest way to go, as you have to be in survival for quite some time till enemies reach lvl 80+)

-think about Kuva rewards continue to scale past enemy level 80-100 (meaning past Kuva flood)

Please keep in mind, that those people who really do farm high amounts of Kuva for Riven rerolls are already investing a great amount of time to do so. Not wanting Kuva to scale comes from the intend to not make endless missions too much of a have to for casual players. But as i stated, people who farm Kuva already invest a huge amount of time in doing so, so not having scaling Kuva doesn't really make sense, as players who don't want to run missions for 40+ mins are not really interested in farming great amounts of Kuva anyways.

The changes i recommend would mean that players who want to farm lots of Kuva can go towards Kuva endless survival (and by staying in long enough would achieve a higher Kuva/min rate than going flood, as they should), while players who don't have that time can go siphon and flood for short bursts of Kuva, that are not significantly worse than going survival mode. I think this approach would satisfy both sorts of players.

 

Kind regards,

Widur

Edited by Widur
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I hope you guys tone down the shiny-ness of this deluxe, because it's such a pain to use dark colors on it.

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Endless Kuva rewards don't scale so there's just no point going beyond 5 minutes. I would just do 5 minutes, get as many towers as I can do in that time, then reset. Please, when you call something 'endless' give a meaning to that word. There is literally no reason to go higher. The way to fix this is, simply put, to make the Kuva rewards scale somehow. For example put it at Average Enemy Level (at that time) x 5 so that it starts at 32 x 5 = 160.

The enemy level cap will top off at level 100 enemies, that way the highest amount you can get is 500 Kuva. That makes it lower than the current 200 at the start, but higher at the end, making it FAR more worth doing for more than 20 minutes.  The numbers I gave might not be the best but you get the idea.

The first few minutes (5 - 20) will not be quite as useful as doing a regular Kuva Siphon as the Siphon would be faster AND award more Kuva. However as it scales onward to higher levels, it eventually becomes better than a Kuva Flood by awarding the players with a LOT more Kuva, as well as being at a tougher level as a counterbalance. 

I am aware that you worry about players sitting and camping and using the same methods for everything all the time, but if I'm being honest, I don't see any problem with that. It may be boring, but it's the most efficient way to do that mission the way they want to do it. You must remember, some players have experimented multiple times and put time into choosing which squad is the best for which mission. It's the same for literally everything in the game - for farming Eidolons, there's always Trinity, Chroma, Harrow and Volt. For Index there's always Rhino, Nova, Trinity and usually a Mesa. 

Edited by Talhe
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I agree. Kuva amount should scale or at least scale from 200 to a max capped maybe at 500 or 600 [without boost] to encourage people to go longer... otherwise they tend to leave after 20 mins mark.

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No scaling on the Kuva drops for the incremental efforts for the players who like to stay more?

Back to SAMP and Fortnite for me and only dailies on WF. Seems like my Cyath riven's gonna wait s'more.

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I dunno if this will get buried under the mountain of feedback but so far this update has been pretty great all around. The Inaros skin looks wonderfully slick while not being too over the top (one of the best deluxe skins I've seen) and the few games I've had of Kuva Survival have been enjoyable while feeling fairly rewarding. 7600 Kuva (with a resource booster) on a 30 minute survival mission is an excellent deal for players like me who don't particularly enjoy kuva siphon mechanics but want to toy around with rolling rivens. I also think that having to balance between maximizing the extractors used for kuva farming and saving some for life support is an interesting decision that doesn't really have an equivalent anywhere else in the game, and gives the interesting side effect of making Desecrate Nekros possibly the most useful frame for the entire game mode. I also like having an excuse to play on Kuva Fortress again with all of its crazy architecture and deathtraps. 

Overall, two thumbs up.

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man i dont know why DE have to make this very difficult ...do you guys even play WF like we do ?? do you know how it feels to have 12 or 15 riven mods and all need kuva to cycle ??? 

with boosters (that i paid plat for) and 40 minutes survival and all i got i 8k kuva !!!!! do you know how much effort/struggle to stay that long in a survival mission and in the end all i got is 2 cycle kuva ...realllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

i paid plat and spent much time for only 2 cycles worth kuva ....that was the worst idea ever 

here is a solution 

1: i dont know how but find an efficient  way to help us get kuva survival mission, quest, bounty ..etc i dont know just find a way 

2: or simply decrease the cycle cost for riven mod 

Edited by Psykiik

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Still no fix for

  • ack & brunt/sigma & octantis with sword and shield danaus skin's melee weapon doesn't shrink when holstered as it's supposed to. (it's been here for a very long time).

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  • perla pistol skin is bugged with pandero, arca sisco, and stubba.

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hdxTiNz.jpg

rTudeM3.jpg

  • dex furis's left pistol clip doesn't drop when reloading.

hSw8tLK.jpg

 

 

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200 at start... okay but it dont scale, so not worth it. i get more and faster kuva from siphons and flood missions.

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14 hours ago, shootaman777 said:

And it's certainly not worthy of being called 'endless' Kuva.

do you realize that "endless" is indication of mission type, not an amount of kuva that you get?

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il y a 12 minutes, Atekron a dit :

do you realize that "endless" is indication of mission type, not an amount of kuva that you get?

That's why he said it's not worthy of being called like that. Endless missions should have the purpose to actually be endless, and needing you to stay as long as possible.

At the moment, it's not the case at all.

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52 minutes ago, Psykiik said:

-

2: or simply decrease the cycle cost for riven mod 

This doesn't sound half bad, considering the crazy amount of rolls you may need to get a "decent" riven.

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After trying the kuva survival i found the rewards quite lacking so i crunched some numbers and came to the fact you only get about 133 kuva per min, whilst i am happy to see the life support changes so the beacons are every 90 seconds now it fails to address the fact that the rewards are below the rewards of floods for time.
Having a scaling element in the rewards would help a lot and would be a nice change to survival as a whole.

 

Kuva per min caculation
200 kuva per life support tower
1 tower per 90 seconds
200 / 90 = 2.2(r)
2.2(r) * 60 = 133.3(r)
conclusions 133 kuva per min is the absolute max you can get and falls below the avage KpM of syphans/flood

Type           Mission              Kuva       Time        KpM
Flood          Exstermnate      1,296      3:37       358.34
Syphon      Cap                      599       3:59       150.37
Syphon       Assassion           600        3:31       170.61

Safe to say if Kuva survival is entended to be between Floods and Syphons it should give 250 kuva per minute so each one Tower should give approximately 375 kuva each.

Edited by fluffysnowcap
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20 minutes ago, RecklessCarnage said:

nothing to level here. Only skins... again

You really asking for mastery fodder? no ty. I prefer them to focus on fixes.

To the people complaining about kuva not scaling: cryotic doesn't scale either yet people do moderately long runs. I can see this as a kuva variant of cryotic excavations. Definitely not meant to replace kuva siphon farming as a main source of kuva, rather something you do while floods show up or until the fortress leaves Eris alone.

Making it scale will only make kuva traders hoard even more "godly" rivens as they will be able to reach much further than the average player, who wouldn't benefit that much from it.

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il y a 10 minutes, ArchPhaeton a dit :

You really asking for mastery fodder? no ty. I prefer them to focus on fixes.

To the people complaining about kuva not scaling: cryotic doesn't scale either yet people do moderately long runs. I can see this as a kuva variant of cryotic excavations. Definitely not meant to replace kuva siphon farming as a main source of kuva, rather something you do while floods show up or until the fortress leaves Eris alone.

Making it scale will only make kuva traders hoard even more "godly" rivens as they will be able to reach much further than the average player, who wouldn't benefit that much from it.

The difference is cryotics isn't a resources you need a S#&$ ton of, once you've crafted everything that needs cryotics, it's not so much of a needed resource, appart from a few blueprints like fomorian discruptor and such. Needless to say it has nothing to do with the amount of kuva we need.

Kuva will always be needed, new rivens will always be here, you'll always want to upgrade them, so you can't compare the two.

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1 hour ago, Zack said:

That's why he said it's not worthy of being called like that. Endless missions should have the purpose to actually be endless, and needing you to stay as long as possible.

At the moment, it's not the case at all.

well, thay endless because you, technically, can do them endlessly, and your purpose and motivation maybe be a reason why you choose not to

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22 минуты назад, ArchPhaeton сказал:

cryotic doesn't scale either yet people do moderately long runs

There is no better way to farm cryotic. Also, tons of unused cell helps to do it faster.

While kuva survival < other kuva missions.

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