So... how about a "Solo" Clan tier?

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

I know right off the bad it seems a little redundant to ask for a solo clan, generally a group thing - but realistically something many people do in Warframe is make a clan just for themselves.

People like me made a clan years and years ago, and have seen members come and go.  My clan personally is left with only me active, nobody else plays and I really have no interest in recruiting outside of my friends whom I played the game with.  I did do outside recruiting for years and it was just 100% leeching and nobody contributing to anything but me still.  Just people piggybacking off my effort.  I don't need a clan for missions and stuff - just for my own personal research and decoration fetish.  There's just no reason to bring somebody else in when there's a 99% chance they won't contribute anything.  

My big gripe with the current 10 man clan system is down to 2 factors, leaderboards for events, and research costs.  I understand research costs are fairly modest for the smallest clan size - but not modest enough for ONE player.  A great example is the Hema, the one and only thing I've never managed to research on my own - because 5000 Mutagen Samples is absurd for ONE player.  I've farmed it down to something like 2000 left, but the fact is it's not fun - and in fact that forced me to spend time in the Derelict for no reason other than to farm one material, I already have all the corrupted mods, there's nothing for me there but a pointless grind with absurd drop rates - it's not an engaging experience and I feel like I'm just wasting time trying to unlock this thing for myself.  If I ever want the other 2000, I'm going to have to spend another 6-10 hours in the derelict farming samples, which I will NOT enjoy, versus spending time elsewhere in the game actually enjoying content.  

Leaderboards are also a problem since the time they decided to stick the Ignis Wraith behind an event - well, as the only active player in my clan, it was naturally quite impossible to place high enough in the leaderboards of even the lowest clan type, so I never got the BP and was instead forced to buy it from another player.  I think that's plain wrong, because again, we're talking about items that count towards personal progression and MR.  If we were talking about clan trophies, and other rewards - I couldn't care less, those don't impact my development and progression.  

I think DE should allow a Solo clan size of 1 player, with research costs more modestly applied to them, not divided by a full 10 or anything, but even half of current costs would be more fair for one guy to do - and even for events, should have a leaderboard for solo clans. 

I think this system is kinda not cool, especially when things tied to progression and MR are in there.  I really don't believe I should be forced to pay the way of 10 people, when I am only one - or be left without access to in-game content.  It's really not an appealing choice either way.  Give up and don't farm - or farm until you have carpel tunnel and PTDD (Post Traumatic Derelict Disorder).  

I played this game from day 1 on PS4, back then there was no massive clans to join - so I joined my own, paid for an emblem - eventually paid for a name change, have spent 100s of forma building the place to my liking.  Naturally after some of these real expenses, and the time and effort I put into making the Dojo, I'm not willing to just pack up and leave for somebody else's clan - it would feel like an utter waste. 

Seeing we have big clan updates coming in the future, I really think it's time for Solo Clans to become a thing.  Please make a more friendly clan system for lone wolves.  Don't make it too appealing where clans will lose their team ideology all together, but try to keep in mind some of us do manage smaller clans that have lost their life.

   

  

[LostSeeker0]

I'm in full agreement with this, not only for the sake of avoiding freeloaders, but also for those individuals who are happen to be antisocial, and get easily overwhelmed by large communities. It would definitely cure some issues when crap hits the fan, and a person finds him/herself out of a clan due to their former clan self-destructing, or just having lousy luck finding a good one, or even having poor social skills when it comes to being among large organizations.

However, this runs into the problem that should one actually want to join a larger clan at some point with them having a solo clan, which would theoretically have said individual be forced to abandon their solo clan and destroy all their progress. Instead, why not make it where every player can have their own personal setup that stays preserved, even after they join a clan? (Space-houses, or the equivalent of one anyone?) In all honesty, when you put lots of people in a clan, with there being room for disputes, toxicity, and even sabotage, a lot can go wrong with clans, which players definitely need a fallback solution when they get caught in the crossfire, and find themselves thrown under the bus one way or another... 

IMO, gating the majority of the more useful stuff behind clans was a BAD decision, considering what can go wrong within a clan organization... Giving every player their own means of managing without one is direly necessary so they don't feel at a complete loss when they find themselves clan-less for one reason or another.

I can speak from personal experience that Clan drama does happen, and can leave you jettisoned out of the clan you put your all into and supported loyally. All those trophies and research projects you contributed to building mean nothing when you get disowned by your clan.

Edited July 17, 2018 by LostSeeker0
Clarification

[Delkior]

Il y a 2 heures, LostSeeker0 a dit :

However, this runs into the problem that should one actually want to join a larger clan at some point with them having a solo clan, which would theoretically have said individual be forced to abandon their solo clan and destroy all their progress.

Multiple accounts are tolerated. I'm not very familiar with the rules on this subject, but as long as you do not exchange items or platinum between your accounts, there is no risk.

It is therefore possible to create another account and make him join your clan as a leader. If you leave your clan for another, your dojo will not be destroyed and you can always re-invite you through your other account.

For the "Solo" Clan tier, it will surely not be accepted. A clan is a community. By definition, one person is not considered a "community". If you have trouble to finding interesting members, it's a personal problem.
Otherwise, why not ask to create a single-clan alliance?

For the hema, it is true, the resources requested are downright abused.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Delkior

[Sean]

Not sure about PS4, but I know on PC there's clans out there set up just so people can "solo", which really just means that people can join and then never even bother with clan chat if they choose (though DE really needs to add toggles for each chat for people who don't even want to see it).

There's probably a few out there on PS4, maybe worth a shot to look through the clan page.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Sean

[LostSeeker0]

Ultimately, this boils down to social, and functional elements being mixed together, which can conflict with each other when social elements get out of hand, and get someone somehow blocked off from the functional side of things one way or another. If Crafting (The crafting blueprints found in clans) and the Clans themselves were completely segregated, this wouldn't be much of an issue.

We could possibly make it where we can make our own personal labs somewhere for ourselves. Yet we could still keep Clan Labs for those who wouldn't want to put work into personal labs. Options would be the project here, as on one hand, Clan Labs offer a quick slingshot forward in getting quick access to more advanced crafting stuff, but personal labs if worked on, could allow you to craft all that whenever, regardless of whatever drama hits your clan, or if you're just a person who just gets very stressed about large social groups and would prefer to work out things on your own. Also, there could possibly be a bit more pride in accumulating personal event trophies too, those that will stay with you if you decide (or are forced) to clan-hop.

[(XBOX)UKILR]

This is more me building on this idea but...

How great would it be to have your own personalized space? The Liset has a lot of options but is already a base design with immovable objects. The clan dojo is great but extremely inconvenient for a solo-player as far as a personal area is concerned. I'd love to see a sort of home for the player, kind of like how SWTOR has strongholds, which are just places that players can unlock for themselves or for their guild. Something like this would be pretty cool in Warframe, and would work fairly well in the open world areas, in my opinion. A little area to call your own. A hut in Cetus, an apartment in Fortuna.

Now, while I know that the stronghold sounds almost exactly like the Liset, this is where my idea gets interesting. What if you had the ability to buy an apartment in Fortuna but had free reign within it and for expanding? I'd like to think of it as, "If you're a solo player, you can enjoy an apartment decorated and maybe even designed around whatever you want it to be - the ability to make rooms whatever size you want but within certain dimensions, hallways in different areas, etc - and you could have a set number neighbors on your floor - randomly generated every time, set people after the first time, friends only, clan mates only, etc - to prevent the entire floor from lagging. The more dedicated players could expand to several rooms, eventually gaining an entire floor to decorate (but losing several to all of their neighbors in the process. Clans - only the most dedicated, perhaps - could own an entire building, allowing each of their members to have their own rooms depending on the clan's size. Maybe have buildings of smaller sizes cost less but you'll have to invest to gain more floors, whereas a taller building is more expensive upfront but contains all the floors, or at least the floors have to be unlocked instead of built. All of this would definitely allow for Fortuna to feel much more personal for players and would help give everyone a stronger sense of community.

Imagine: You log into Warframe and load into the game in your apartment. You take a minute to enjoy your furnishings before heading out, watching a neighbor as he leaves his room. You can tell he's new and, through the floor chat, you know someone else in the building plans to help him. You head to a navigation terminal and teleport to your clan's building. There are Index scores displayed on the first floor - reception - and you see in your clan chat that someone is upset after losing a bet they placed. You teleport about halfway up the building to the clan's obstacle course. One of your clan mates finally finished building it and the thing is enormous. It's the biggest obstacle course you've ever seen. It spans three floors in height but costs a fraction of the fortune that would've been spent on floors and rooms. The best time recorded so far was five minutes. Five minutes! You decide to skip the challenge and teleport to the top of the building, which holds the clan leader's own private office - useful for rp, communicating with other clans, or conducting trade deals, whatever he or your clan is in to - as well as personal offices for top clan members. You head on down to your own private office to check for updates to the game and from within your clan. You were lucky enough to get a room that looks into the dueling arena and watch as several clan mates battle it out in a clan-run tournament. You leave your office and head to the terrace that overlooks the heart of Fortuna. It's a decent sight in its own right. There isn't much of a view from the top floor of a building in the center of a slum and the whole thing is just a status symbol to poor resources and time into, but you'd be lying if you said it wasn't fun to have this new power fantasy.

@[DE]Steve C'mooooooooon, I think it sounds great! Although it's definitely a little bit more ambitious than the Strongholds in SWTOR, I'd like to include the fact that the Strongholds exist in separate instances, so although you're living on a planet, you can't just jump from your apartment to the streets of the city and you don't have to worry about loading the entire game world, only your Stronghold. As overly creative as I am, I must sadly admit that technical limitations exist.

Edited July 19, 2018 by (XB1)UKILR

[TheJagji]

Its called your ship. 😛

For real tho, the whole point of the Clans and Dojos is to have people work together and creating a way for people to have a 'solo clan' kind of makes the whole point of them redundant.

I do however think there needs to be changed to how clan resources work... The idea that we are putting our own stuff in makes always to attacked and less likely to move from a clan. I would like a few things to happen so we can actually get away from this a bit. 

1. If you are in a clan, 5-10% of all resources you get in a mission go to the clan. This way we would still be giving a stuff, but it would be far more passive. Of course, how you give stuff now will still be available, but it means that there is always an income into the clan coffers.

2. allow for Clan merging. I am not completely sure how this would work at the back end, but at the front, it would basically allow for smaller clans to merge and keep progress. Each clans research would carry over into the new clan, as well as resources. All resources used in the construction of anything and everything in the dojos would be moved into one. This would happen so one clan dojo gets destroyed and absorbed into the other. Members would be auto-moved to the new clan,  but only if they have space. So the absorbing clan would need to be at a level where its possible to take on the new members.

3. When a player goes to make a new clan, they are presented with a recruitment page so they can see what clans there are, and which ones have space. They can pick the level they want the clan to be at, so if they only want a small group, they can only see small clans, and so on. 

[(PSN)DoPeY42OBrEnDoN9]

I definately like the idea of a resource/credit kinda clan tax thing per mission. That would make playing as a clan  even an alliance even better cause a good % of players dont even bother contributing.

[---Merchant---]

Problem with clans is how you MUST BE in one to get clan weapons and stuff (for me more importantly I need it to trade comfy).
So It is not about community,friends,nice place to be. Next patch you also need it to get ship with venus update...

I can not say that my clan mates did not contribute at all,did i farm 99%? yes,but still I m happy to say that some people are nice enough to contribute,even without me directly asking.
Still,i had to remove 20people and downrank clan because we would never get enought material for Hema and some other stuff with just me farming it.


For these points above,i fully support solo clan idea.
I will not make one myself because I m ok with craft resources needed in 10men clan but I ll be still happy to see it ingame.

[Hallowieners]

I really think the clan cost multiplier should be capped somewhere. You can't expect every member in the clan to contribute, nor can you expect them to play the game all the time to contribute. Maintaining a decent amount of active members to contribute is difficult in a game like Warframe, where people take breaks until the next update or whatever. Maintaining an active amount of players in the clan becomes harder as the clan size grows, and with the way the decoration costs scale based on tier, the game punishes you for having a large clan as you only really gain the benefit of having more people in the clan chat, with almost none of the upsides of having a larger pool of players to pull resources from.

 

My clan is storm tier, with around 240 members, but a good portion of them play it casually, others take breaks and only play around large updates. I could go the route of kicking them from the clan to reduce tier and only keep the active members, but a lot of them are people that I talk with, friends, and whatnot. I can't really force them to contribute and I don't want to. With the way the system is now, either you somehow have everyone in your clan be active and contribute (really difficult for large clans, especially community based ones instead of hardcore), or you foot the costs on a small portion of the members that are willing to contribute, these guys stay for the community, not the clan benefits. As you increase in clan tier, you trade the ability to freely decorate for the ability to have a larger group chat which is pretty lame.

Edited July 31, 2018 by DesuEx

[(PSN)corigrimasce]

yes that would be more fun in a way

[Delkior]

@DesuExWhat you propose, or should propose, it's to allow a clan to regress.
Your problem is not related to the solo clan, but to the bigger ones that are empty. Open a topic and request that it be possible to destroy the Barracks to pass Moon to Mountain for example, if the number of registered member does not exceed the limit ... (300 with Mountain).
Allow to remove all inactive and adjust the tier of the clan.

[edit] If a good portion of them play it casually, others take breaks and only play around large updates, that's your problem. The dojo is a reflection of its members. It will be empty if no one wishes to participate. This may embarrass some, but that will be the will of the majority.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Delkior

[Hallowieners]

1 hour ago, Delkior said:

@DesuExWhat you propose, or should propose, it's to allow a clan to regress.
Your problem is not related to the solo clan, but to the bigger ones that are empty. Open a topic and request that it be possible to destroy the Barracks to pass Moon to Mountain for example, if the number of registered member does not exceed the limit ... (300 with Mountain).
Allow to remove all inactive and adjust the tier of the clan.

[edit] If a good portion of them play it casually, others take breaks and only play around large updates, that's your problem. The dojo is a reflection of its members. It will be empty if no one wishes to participate. This may embarrass some, but that will be the will of the majority.

Downgrading clan tiers is already supported by the game. What I propose is not that. The issue lies within how the clan costs are scaled, and how that scale does not reflect the rest of the game. There is no benefit for having a larger clan besides a larger pool of people to talk with in the clan chat. Objectively speaking, you are at a disadvantage for having a large clan which is an issue in itself because you have to deal with managing more people to contribute to the inflated resource costs.

The dojo is not an accurate reflection of its members because a ghost clan can easily have a much larger and more decorated dojo than a moon clan due to it being much easier for one person to fully contribute a decoration scaled towards ghost tier costs than it is to get 1000 people to contribute in a decoration scaled towards moon tier costs.

Edited July 31, 2018 by DesuEx

[Delkior]

The original subject has already deviated, so I continue a little.
I thought back to the clan donation system.

Le 21/07/2018 à 2:40 AM, TheJagji a dit :

1. If you are in a clan, 5-10% of all resources you get in a mission go to the clan. This way we would still be giving a stuff, but it would be far more passive. Of course, how you give stuff now will still be available, but it means that there is always an income into the clan coffers.

I have not read everything, but someone probably noticed that once the dojo is finished, this system becomes obselete.
I thought rather at a forced contribution. That's not nice. Forcing people to participate should not be allowed. Nevertheless, if we remind "the law of Conscription", force people to act for the common good becomes legitimate.

How to set up this system. 
I thought of a simple button. 3 times per week (more or less, to the dev to choose if they accept the idea), when he installs a decoration, launches a search or creates a room, the leader has a "forced contribution" option. The cost is divided and recovered directly in the inventory of all members, active or not.
If one of them does not have enough resources to pay its share, it will only increase that of others.

I doubt that allowing to use this function without limit is right. But occasionally invoking the order of "conscription" or "forced contribution", will allow to large clans to manage the investment of active and inactive members.
"If you are in a clan, agree to MUST participate."

[Guest]

I think it's fine as is... maybe it depends mostly on your farming/grinding standards/efficiency.

I did all the research on my solo ghost clan in 2 or 3 weeks (after building the room and doing the initial research), and it was pretty fast to gather the materials for each weapon/frame/archwing, except for the Hema (3 days). I intend to start another clan someday, but without rushing rooms with plat this time, just to have a "clean" contribution list. I've already gathered all Mutagen Samples I need (5,505, IIRC), and it only took me 2 days.

Clans are intended for people to socialize and stuff, but if you don't wanna deal with the people part, like me, the farming for researches and colors is pretty trivial in Ghost clans, except for Hema, which, according to people, DE has already stated that they think it was a mistake.