Bring back trials

[Aquabrother1984]

On 06/04/2018 at 8:02 PM, Gandergear said:

you're the one trying to force an issue, i never tried to make YOU care, I said that the people who DO CARE still want trials and we'd like them back as fast as possible. You'd think that with them being removed DE would at LEAST get some stuff out the door at a faster pace, but no they're more glacial than ever.

my point is that people CARED about trials, no one is going to step up and say "I have a clan that's entirely devoted to defection", conclave does, if conclave gets removed are you gonna say exactly "Oh sucks it got removed cuz not enough people cared and anyone who DID care is somehow in the wrong" and then berate them on the forums for liking something because you say they're toxic?

Truth is, raids are gone and thats it, i myself still think thats one of the biggest wrong moves DE have ever made, but hey, theres nothing we can do...

Even thou they say only 1% of the players used to do raids, you didnt have to wait more than 1 minute to find someone asking for ppl to raid with in the recruitment chat, this seems more than 1% for me, not to meantion all the groups that didnt even need a recruitment chat to raid along, but hey, theres nothing we can do anymore...

i myself have made a ton of raids and have played with many diferent kind of personalities and its the same in any game, toxic ppl will be here and there and we get to get used to it, removing an entire content is just no sense...

Most of ppl is happy with raids being gone cuz they coundnt manage to do it, either for being too bad, or for not being patiente to learn, or any other excuse they might come up with...

Let it go bro, i feel your pain but hey, so many other cool games around, we dont need to get stick to only one right?

Best regards...

Edited April 8, 2018 by Aquabrother1984

[Gandergear]

2 hours ago, Aquabrother1984 said:

Truth is, raids are gone and thats it, i myself still think thats one of the biggest wrong moves DE have ever made, but hey, theres nothing we can do...

Even thou they say only 1% of the players used to do raids, you didnt have to wait more than 1 minute to find someone asking for ppl to raid with in the recruitment chat, this seems more than 1% for me, not to meantion all the groups that didnt even need a recruitment chat to raid along, but hey, theres nothing we can do anymore...

i myself have made a ton of raids and have played with many diferent kind of personalities and its the same in any game, toxic ppl will be here and there and we get to get used to it, removing an entire content is just no sense...

Most of ppl is happy with raids being gone cuz they coundnt manage to do it, either for being too bad, or for not being patiente to learn, or any other excuse they might come up with...

Let it go bro, i feel your pain but hey, so many other cool games around, we dont need to get stick to only one right?

Best regards...

actually a good point, raid lobbies rarely took more than 3 minutes to fill, even if you were advertising fast runs or exp only

I always found like maybe 1 in every 12 players could be considered toxic, even when you have a first timer who managed to F up lor day 2 twice on the first stage and twice on the second stage.

I've actually been dumping lots of time into starcraft 2 coop which has been fun, DE just isn't willing to give vets a place to be so i'm just falling out a bit more and more each day, which is just really sad.

[Sintag]

Raids were just standing on pads and waiting, sometimes pushing a button or hacking a panel, all set to tediousness and a burning desire to fall asleep.  Or in JV's case, standing inside bubbles and refreshing them, to the tune of, you guessed it, waiting.  Or batting spores with the wonkiest hitboxes I've ever seen into a goal in about the most boring game of soccer I've ever seen, sometimes getting one-shotted out of nowhere because of course you would be.  As far as I'm concerned, the sooner I had the cosmetic junk you get from clearing them in my inventory, the better.  At least Eidolons, for all the crap I can fling at that fight, have something more interesting than 'Stand on a button.  Wait.  Repeat.'

 

Tl;dr:  Good riddance.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Sintag

[Gandergear]

1 hour ago, Sintag said:

Raids were just standing on pads and waiting, sometimes pushing a button or hacking a panel, all set to tediousness and a burning desire to fall asleep.  Or in JV's case, standing inside bubbles and refreshing them, to the tune of, you guessed it, waiting.  Or batting spores with the wonkiest hitboxes I've ever seen into a goal in about the most boring game of soccer I've ever seen, sometimes getting one-shotted out of nowhere because of course you would be.  As far as I'm concerned, the sooner I had the cosmetic junk you get from clearing them in my inventory, the better.  At least Eidolons, for all the crap I can fling at that fight, have something more interesting than 'Stand on a button.  Wait.  Repeat.'

 

Tl;dr:  Good riddance.

guessing you were just never good at them to have to stand on a button for very long.

Eidolons:

Find lures, wait around for vombs to spawn, shoot at the same target nonstop with crappy operator amps that are as vanilla of weapons as you can get

ENGAGING!

1 shot the synova with your chroma

ENGAGING!

rinse and repeat

 

Plague Star:

Go 2000m to get the catalyst, go 800m to the mixer, stand still for 3 minutes fighting, go 600m to the drone, go 800m to the boil

ENGAGING

spend the next 6 minutes shooting one enemy repeatably until he dies

ENGAGING

 

Yeah stop with the button simulator copy pasta since you've only done a literal total of 8 raids and don't even know how to raid host for any of them.

[Sintag]

5 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

Yeah stop with the button simulator copy pasta since you've only done a literal total of 8 raids and don't even know how to raid host for any of them.

Well, you're a charming example of the raid community, aren't you?

Eidolon fights might get repetitive and boring, but you know what?  At least in those, you're actively encouraged to shoot stuff, whereas LoR, you really shouldn't be shooting much because it'd remove the Slova's help from the fight.  And at least in those, you're moving, even if it is more/less a million mph because of all the projectiles that make it seem like Touhou invaded Warframe.  And even if the Amps aren't the shining pinnacle of weaponcraft, they've got a far better use than the Antiserum Injector (AKA waste of two Fieldron, I feel like DE should've refunded the materials for keys and the Injector but that's not the point of this thread)

Also nice of you to include Plague Star on there when this wasn't even concerning Plague Star, and real charming of you to think the number of times I endured those slogs actually means anything in the grand scheme of things.

[Duality52]

To add on, the rewards of the Trials in comparsion to Tridolon Hunting feels shallow.

Sure there are Rare crates (possible Boosters/Captura scenes), around 250k credits, and just one Arcane.

Tridolon Hunting yields your Sentient Cores to commit to the Quils, 3 Arcanes, and around 205k Focus (not part of the daily cap too) from the Shards.

The old Trials felt frustratingly unrewarding for the time it takes to complete plus the daily Arcane reward limit, so they'll need some more time to make a proper integration into the game.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Duality52

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

Whats going on? Why is the OP so rude and angry? Did I miss something. 

I rather not comment on the raids since it seems if I do I would rather get insulted or ridicule somehow.

[Gandergear]

12 hours ago, Sintag said:

Well, you're a charming example of the raid community, aren't you?

Eidolon fights might get repetitive and boring, but you know what?  At least in those, you're actively encouraged to shoot stuff, whereas LoR, you really shouldn't be shooting much because it'd remove the Slova's help from the fight.  And at least in those, you're moving, even if it is more/less a million mph because of all the projectiles that make it seem like Touhou invaded Warframe.  And even if the Amps aren't the shining pinnacle of weaponcraft, they've got a far better use than the Antiserum Injector (AKA waste of two Fieldron, I feel like DE should've refunded the materials for keys and the Injector but that's not the point of this thread)

Also nice of you to include Plague Star on there when this wasn't even concerning Plague Star, and real charming of you to think the number of times I endured those slogs actually means anything in the grand scheme of things.

"Good riddance raids are gone" "wahhh op means to me because i told him raids deserved to be removed despite him liking them" you played a stupid game and got a stupid prize.

5 hours ago, (PS4)El_Senior_Fats said:

Whats going on? Why is the OP so rude and angry? Did I miss something. 

I rather not comment on the raids since it seems if I do I would rather get insulted or ridicule somehow.

Well in the case of pete hes a crappy forum troll, in the case of the next guy he kept bringing up how i treated a forum troll, and the previous guy told me he hated raids despite not regularly partaking in them, so he hates them despite not doing them.

Ive done trios 65+ times and plague star maybe 50+ times, when i say i hate them its because ive done them enough to say why theyre bad, 99% of anti raiders hate it because they never invested the 2 hours it takes to learn how to do them and only have have the shallowest knowledge of what they are. Its like playing mario kart for the first time for an hour and making your entire opinion around that.

[Sintag]

5 hours ago, (PS4)El_Senior_Fats said:

Whats going on? Why is the OP so rude and angry? Did I miss something. 

I rather not comment on the raids since it seems if I do I would rather get insulted or ridicule somehow.

Honestly, man, I don't know what started his anger.  Do feel free to comment, though.

35 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

"Good riddance raids are gone" "wahhh op means to me because i told him raids deserved to be removed despite him liking them" you played a stupid game and got a stupid prize.

So a buggy, easily broken mode that needed hotfixing because any time DE tried to do something, some portion broke down screaming, that hardly anyone played due to the monotony and toxicity surrounding it deserved to be kept in, in spite of the fact it was occupying DE's time and, more importantly if you're a business, money, to keep fixing and patching when something inevitably went wrong or some speedrunner found a hole in the level again?

End of the day, Raids were a money sink for DE that hardly got results, and before you go to Conclave, all that is is changing a few variables to balance things out, not going into the level, trying to fix holes in geometry or trying to fix the hitboxes on Spores for Jordas's face.  So while you might hate that Raids are gone, end of the day, they're gone because they kept breaking, kept costing money and time to fix, and nobody seemed to care much for them.  DE's a business, and like it or hate it, businesses need money.  Raids didn't provide money and began eating it up?  Raids get removed until they're easier to patch up or otherwise don't become a money sink.  Plain and simple.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Sintag
Averted wanton cruelty to the common comma.

[Gandergear]

59 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Honestly, man, I don't know what started his anger.  Do feel free to comment, though.

So a buggy, easily broken mode that needed hotfixing because any time DE tried to do something, some portion broke down screaming, that hardly anyone played due to the monotony and toxicity surrounding it deserved to be kept in, in spite of the fact it was occupying DE's time and, more importantly if you're a business, money, to keep fixing and patching when something inevitably went wrong or some speedrunner found a hole in the level again?

End of the day, Raids were a money sink for DE that hardly got results, and before you go to Conclave, all that is is changing a few variables to balance things out, not going into the level, trying to fix holes in geometry or trying to fix the hitboxes on Spores for Jordas's face.  So while you might hate that Raids are gone, end of the day, they're gone because they kept breaking, kept costing money and time to fix, and nobody seemed to care much for them.  DE's a business, and like it or hate it, businesses need money.  Raids didn't provide money and began eating it up?  Raids get removed until they're easier to patch up or otherwise don't become a money sink.  Plain and simple.

Then my original point still stands

People who care want never wanted it removed

People who didnt wont care if it comes back

Arcane market moved large amts of plat pre trios, saying it didnt make money is categorically false and seems to be an excuse from DE, same with not enough players playing it. Anecodtally raid lobbies filled FAST, 1 msg was enough to get 8 replies in 1 minute, conclave? Good luck finding more than 2 people playing on a GOOD day.

DE said a bunch of crap but didnt prove it, they dont have to prove it but it doesnt mean i believr them. Good will is something you earn and DE wasted all mine before POE even dropped.

[Sintag]

So let me get this straight, then.

A mode that required it's own, separate lobby that can and will fail on you if someone accepts in the Arsenal, into three-segmented missions with unique tiles that, due to not being played in or explored as much as other tiles, often had small holes that went undiscovered in testing, that required 8 people but no it only needed 4 if you knew how to cheese it, that were prone to aforementioned cheesing because people had the game figured out so much by now that it was almost hilariously easy to cheese, which could fail for someone and thus deny them the entire reward if their router decided right then and there to momentarily break down on them, that needed to be fixed back up after every patch to get them in working order when doing anything but would've resulted in more money for them, and at the end of the day, were unfun slogs even discounting the bugs, glitches, and exploits, should have been kept in for the 1% of the community that regularly played them and constantly, repeatedly, harassed the devs for fixes on them versus the fairly miniscule benefits they had.

Also, yes, Conclave might be dead as a doornail, but as I've said and will keep noting, all Conclave needs is a good old tweak to some numbers every now and then, instead of going into the level editior and adding collision detection for the hole in the wall near Jordas, or implementing countermeasures for some of the nastier pieces of cheese, or fixing the rewards clock so people don't get angry over no Arcanes.

[Gandergear]

6 minutes ago, Sintag said:

So let me get this straight, then.

A mode that required it's own, separate lobby that can and will fail on you if someone accepts in the Arsenal, into three-segmented missions with unique tiles that, due to not being played in or explored as much as other tiles, often had small holes that went undiscovered in testing, that required 8 people but no it only needed 4 if you knew how to cheese it, that were prone to aforementioned cheesing because people had the game figured out so much by now that it was almost hilariously easy to cheese, which could fail for someone and thus deny them the entire reward if their router decided right then and there to momentarily break down on them, that needed to be fixed back up after every patch to get them in working order when doing anything but would've resulted in more money for them, and at the end of the day, were unfun slogs even discounting the bugs, glitches, and exploits, should have been kept in for the 1% of the community that regularly played them and constantly, repeatedly, harassed the devs for fixes on them versus the fairly miniscule benefits they had.

Yes., though it sounds like youre describing eidolons

[Mr.Snipersmiley]

@Gandergear I get your pain and like a couple people said on this post (not in the best manner) the removal of raids was and wasn’t justified entirely. I will attempt to be devils advocate for one point and vise verca for the next

1(devils advocate) raids were buggy as all heck and back, they were inconsistent and in my opinion they felt very rushed the maps faults could be exploited easily and you can crash the host easily, you can break the pad doors by doing the injectors in a certain order. Don’t get me started on JV. You could skip entire segments with Titania and Loki!!

2. The raids had an entire COMMUNITY (raid school bus) in that server I’m a JV Vet (professional in both LOR, LORNM and JV) I HELPED people learn how to do raids, There was a community of people using THEIR time trying to increase the population of this raiding community and DE out right stabbed us in the back, and that stab was fatal.

The removal of raids could have been taken another way, but removing them outright was very uncalled for.

[NeithanDiniem]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Snipersmiley said:

The removal of raids could have been taken another way, but removing them outright was very uncalled for.

Nothing is stopping them from remaking the raids to use mechanics that are less prone to break. It will require them to redesign the raids from the foundation however, and that means remove the constantly breaking raids so they don't have to keep bandaging the missions that are bleeding out internally. They themselves have said this is a very likely future for raids and they are interested in returning to them.

Edited April 9, 2018 by NeithanDiniem

[Mr.Snipersmiley]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Nothing is stopping them from remaking the raids to use mechanics that are less prone to break. It will require them to redesign the raids from the foundation however, and that means remove the constantly breaking raids so they don't gave to keep bandaging the missions that are bleeding out internally. They themselves have said this is a very likely future for raids and they are interested in returning to them.

I 100% agree with the first half of what you said, “them being interested in returning them” this irks me. It has been...I don’t know 3 years since we got any information on dark sector, even then that idea was scrapped into a totally new idea. And also in previous dev streams, the main members (Steve,reb,Scott,etc) some of them at least, voiced some very negative opinions toward raids, and this attitude toward them isn’t very comforting about the return of raids.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Just here to voice my opinion on the subject, and not to get into anything political or polarized in either direction.

I personally didn't like WF's trials, but I understood that there was a specific niche of players who came back daily, or as often as they could, to run them. There was a dedicated and passionate community of raiders that developed, fostered by groups like the RSB and some of the streamers who would run them for charity donations and things of that nature. While I can't say I'm sad to see them gone now, I can see why some players (as small a margin as they are) are up in arms even still about their removal.

This is coming from a player who has played each trial at least once, I understand that they can be... somewhat of a mess without veteran runners on your side. My first JV run was a buggy and very driven out grind for a single arcane (Happened to be Energize btw, lucky me), and I personally couldn't see at the time why players would sink 30-60 minutes on a single reward, once per day.  This is why, off the bat, Eidolon hunting is far more lucrative for those players without that amount of time on their hands, and there are multiple opportunities to farm between 3 - 12 Arcanes in a single day. (So you aren't limited to doing it at specific times in the day, where the rest of your buds happen to all be online and ready to go.)

Combined with the fact that the trial community was a fairly small, passionate and driven group, bolstered by the challenge (if you could call it that) that the trials brought to the table, it ultimately couldn't sustain itself.  Most trial parties I happened to be in told me I had to be a specific frame with a specific loadout, and if I happened to disagree and said I could be a valuable member of the team even with a Excalibur and not a Loki/Trinity, they'd just remake the squad without inviting me and when I asked the Trial session creator about it, I'd see "user is ignoring you". (Not saying they were all like this, but for those special few, I'd see this more often than not. Which is what ultimately discouraged me from running trials at all)

Almost every hotfix week, I remember seeing fixes for trials (or people asking for trial fixes). What didn't make sense to me was why DE was having to fix the LoR or JV when nothing had even changed to affect it.  Week after week, players would be demanding fixes for gameplay breaking, progression stoppers and honestly, I was getting a little tired of seeing them. Because I knew that it'd be taking development time/resources away from other tasks that DE was working on.

So to recap, I was never an avid trials player, and I'm well aware that even to this day there are players that will resort to ad hominem to make their point instead of having a respectable and decent conversation about something we cannot change any longer.  Regardless of a position on a topic, I try to remain as respectful as I can to my peers here on the forums or elsewhere.  We're all players, we're in this ride together, and even though trials are gone they do have a chance at returning in the future. Not as they were, hopefully.

As for the discussion that has taken place before me, please do remember. We're all Tenno, and while opinions or feedback are necessary at times we feel the most divided, there is no reason to split ourselves up more over something that has long since been decided.

Thank you for reading. :)

Edited April 9, 2018 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Aquabrother1984]

On 09/04/2018 at 3:25 PM, AEP8FlyBoy said:

 

Combined with the fact that the trial community was a fairly small, passionate and driven group, bolstered by the challenge (if you could call it that) that the trials brought to the table, it ultimately couldn't sustain itself.  Most trial parties I happened to be in told me I had to be a specific frame with a specific loadout, and if I happened to disagree and said I could be a valuable member of the team even with a Excalibur and not a Loki/Trinity, they'd just remake the squad without inviting me and when I asked the Trial session creator about it, I'd see "user is ignoring you". (Not saying they were all like this, but for those special few, I'd see this more often than not. Which is what ultimately discouraged me from running trials at all)

Well, when you join someone party you have to respect the host/raid leader choices, thats pretty clear for me, its the same as if you join a company and say to your boss "hey sir, i could do a much better work if i was your ceo instead of your office boy" makes no sense...

If you want to use a excal or whatever you want, its actually pretty viable, i myself used to run an ember build focused on blinding enemies with her 2 that was very good, meanly if you'd combine that with nova slow, but i was the raid leader, so i could make the choices i wanted..

If you want todo raids your way, its pretty simple, host a raid yourself. I understand the reason why you dislike raids, its the same with most of the players that dislike it, the only arguments i can accept are based on the bugs the raids had, all others are pure and simple lack of effort from players that want easy rewards or simply didnt care on contributing on the raid itself. 

And the bug problems with the raids are fully lack of DE's effort on solving, as most of new content are, we have tons of bugs with eidolons nowadays and i dont see anyone thinking on removing them...

Just to add to my argument, i'd like to say Cetus and plains was a really bad idea, and i dont like at all the way the game is going to, if DE just had revamped the raids and focused on implement new ones and giving them proper attention, the game would be at a much better status right now... as you all obviously know, if DE do not force you to go to the plains (by making that the only way you have to farm for void relics), that place would be left for the crows.

 

[Ketec]

It was the content that perhaps 0.1% or less of players played or had ever played even once - yet demanded a large chunk of support/development time.
It's not a financially sound decision and that money/time could be spent on features that more people are affected by.

[Gandergear]

5 hours ago, Ketec said:

It was the content that perhaps 0.1% or less of players played or had ever played even once - yet demanded a large chunk of support/development time.
It's not a financially sound decision and that money/time could be spent on features that more people are affected by.

I dont believe that statistic btw. As a raid host it was easy af to fill a lobby, even if it was an 'exp only fast run'. I seriously doubt that numbers true considering that.

But anyways the community was VERY active, unlike conclave, and moved large amounts of plat. Selling energizes and other arcanes was almost instantaneous.

I really think DE just gave an insulting excuse rather than being honest. And frankly they dont keep enough good will with me to believe them.

[fr4gb4ll]

On 5.4.2018 at 5:06 PM, Gandergear said:

No one who cared wanted them removed and those who didnt care still wont when theyre back.

i for one don't care about them being removed. not because i didn't like them - on contrary - but because they were so goddamn buggy all the time and the bloody matchmaking method of using the cumbersome chat wasn't any fun at all. so, if they (or rather when, since they said they would) return, they better fix a lot of issues before:

• running them on their own (or at least on tested/approved) dedicated servers
• fixing every known bug (some of them in existance from the beginning) to the trails
• finding new and better rewards (especailly since we now get all those arcanes from the eidolon, where they are far more logical to get from)
• reworking on warframe age-old and annoyingly bad lobby system and matchmaking method (hell, even in diablo 2 times there were far better ways to organize a mission)
• getting rid of those useless keys and make "random" matches possible - but not without at least some kind of MR-cap AND dedicated servers - else we see just more toaster related mission-fails than before (and still in every other mission). a lot of players just don't have the hardware and network capacity to host 7 other players in a stabil condition.

[Polygrim]

At this point, DE removing a part of the game,which gathered a small but nice community over it,it was fun and it was enjoyable,i got no idea why you had to remove them in favoure of damn POE,not everyone likes open world! I am sure i am not alone at this,listen at the community for once and give us back what we all enjoyed.

[Mk.1]

8 minutes ago, Polygrim said:

listen at the community for once

lol

[Trichouette]

il y a 9 minutes, Polygrim a dit :

which gathered a small but nice community

il y a 9 minutes, Polygrim a dit :

give us back what we all enjoyed

It doesn't make sense.

[Polygrim]

Just read what i typed,i am never visiting forums again untill i learn how to type