Why is damage done to the Hemocyte capped?

[Caliboom]

Like, seriously, it's dumb, I got a Vulkar Wraith with a Riven that gives it 5000 damage and 100% crit chance and I only do around 2000 damage to it's weak points.

Why the hell is the damage done to it capped? It just makes the fight more annoying and longer.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Caliboom

[aligatorno]

To make it  a "challenge" probably. In reality however ,it just makes it annoying, it doesn't really change anything but the time it takes to kill. 

[Pro3Display]

1-hit-win prevention

you know how people here get frustrated when they don't get something to shoot at _{*cough* fastest gunslinger in the west nerf *cough*}

Edited April 7, 2018 by Pro3Display

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Better solution than the 15,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 health point bullet sponges.

They could have been mean like I would have and put a % return damage on every shot. So the higher dealing damage players take a butt-tonne of return damage every shot. Can you imagine the whining there?

[-QUILL_PETER-]

Vulkar is mostly impact, so it may also be a matter the Hemocyte's damage resistances.

[DrBorris]

The damage is not capped, it just has a really, really weird damage reduction formula if I remember correctly.

[bad4youLT]

just use something like soma prime , tenora or prisma or wraith gorgons 

Edited April 7, 2018 by bad4youLT

[Voltage]

9 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

The damage is not capped, it just has a really, really weird damage reduction formula if I remember correctly.

Damage is capped per hit. Sniper Rifles suffer from this. You cannot 1 shot with Lanka, but kill pretty quick with something like Soma/Grakata. It is an odd boss. It is annoying if you don't understand the mechanics of it, but not very hard if properly equipped.

[DrBorris]

4 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Damage is capped per hit. Sniper Rifles suffer from this. You cannot 1 shot with Lanka, but kill pretty quick with something like Soma/Grakata. It is an odd boss. It is annoying if you don't understand the mechanics of it, but not very hard if properly equipped.

Eh, I would not be so confident. I did not say that low RoF weapons were worse, just that it was complicated. So, because I had nothing better to do today I tested a bunch of stuff against Lephantis.

My method was pretty simple, I tested a bunch of different weapons with full builds, estimated their damage per hit with a basic damage calculator, then compared that to the actual values. All of my tests were against the Corpus head (as it is the easiest to hit) because I think the different heads may have different damage resistances (not testing that today though). I found out two things. First, Warframe's damage calculations are as random and BS as ever and that I heavily doubt that there is a damage cap. The TL:DR of the info-dump is that there is a diminishing returns DR calculation based on the amount of non-crit damage. The higher the damage, the higher the damage reduction. It is kind of like a gross backwards armor calculation that is based on damage dealt rather than a separate armor value.

 

Weapons I tested were all of Tiberon Prime's fire modes, Lex Prime, Lanka and Baza all with a corrosive build. I also used a 400% damage boost Octavia after I tested without buffs. Normally I got four different possible numbers from each hit, supposedly there is a headshot hit-box inside that Corpus head which gave me even more points of data. So I had headshot crits, regular crits, headshot non-crits and general non-crits all recorded.

Nearly all of the damage reductions were between 90% and 95% except for Baza that was able to inch down to 87% on critical non-headshots. And this is with a pretty strong correlation (except for outliers because Warframe damage calculations are insane) between the damage reduction and the damage done with critical and it seemed to be a completely separate correlation than the values of the non-crits (that were all over the place with no relationship to be distinguished with the small sample size). So the conclusion I had to come up with there is that, whatever the damage calculation is, it takes place before the critical damage multiplier is applied.

I would post my spreadsheet and graphs but for some reason the forums are being a butt right now and won't let me link.

 

So... TL;DR 2.0: For "optimal" damage against Lephantis/Hemocyte bring a low damage per shot, high fire-rate critical weapon. The higher the critical multiplier the better (In theory a Harrow with a Nukor would be glorious). Obviously I could be completely wrong but I am confident when I say there is no damage cap, just some damage reduction formula someone at DE is very proud of.

 

I also have one other hunch that needs testing that the DR for Shotguns is calculated in a way that takes into account the total damage per shot rather than just being the damage of individual pellets. So even though Shotguns give you a lot of numbers per shot, their DR ends up being more like that of a Sniper.

[Roll__Fizzlebeef]

I might be in the minority here but I would hate it if the bosses died in one hit. I actually enjoy the challenge. There's enough content in the game where you can one shot or nuke enemies instantly. I played one run where we only did 2 and it was incredibly boring and felt like a waste.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

just another reason to avoid this snooze event

[(PSN)Silverback73]

10 hours ago, Caliboom said:

Like, seriously, it's dumb, I got a Vulkar Wraith with a Riven that gives it 5000 damage and 100% crit chance and I only do around 2000 damage to it's weak points.

Why the hell is the damage done to it capped? It just makes the fight more annoying and longer.

“You know the answer.  You hate them...you hate...yourself.”

 

[cookieknife]

Infested heavies have damage resistance

[Firetempest]

4 hours ago, Roll__Fizzlebeef said:

I might be in the minority here but I would hate it if the bosses died in one hit. I actually enjoy the challenge. There's enough content in the game where you can one shot or nuke enemies instantly. I played one run where we only did 2 and it was incredibly boring and felt like a waste.

Its also not particularly fun when you are required to marathon kill the same boss dozens and dozens of times for a specific point resource in a limited amount of time to acquire rewards. The "challange" is your patience for the whole event, not the randomly vulnerable damage reduction time sink. At best, they slowed down the min-maxers by 5 minutes. At worst they made it a horrific 1 hit kill monstrosity for everyone else.

Both will not see the reward amounts to the first event, even to those who didn't cheese kill in the first event.

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Firetempest

[Gessie00]

There's something strange going on with the damage calculation, or possibly just the displayed damage numbers. Try looking at the health bar of the boss as it plunks down for a better impression of what's happening.

In another thread someone mentioned the Embolist as a surprisingly effective pick. Not sure why.

Personally I have seen 8-10k crits from my Vectis P (no riven), which is a large chunk of health. Then sometimes, it's 800. Or 2k. Or trololo.

11 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Eh, I would not be so confident. I did not say that low RoF weapons were worse, just that it was complicated. So, because I had nothing better to do today I tested a bunch of stuff against Lephantis.(...)

I also have one other hunch that needs testing that the DR for Shotguns is calculated in a way that takes into account the total damage per shot rather than just being the damage of individual pellets. So even though Shotguns give you a lot of numbers per shot, their DR ends up being more like that of a Sniper.

Very nice. Do you happen to have data on time-to-kill?

Edited April 8, 2018 by Gessie00

[LupisV0lk]

it's an artificial way to make challenge and is the easiest way to do so. Otherwise they'd have to re balance the entire mod system and i'm sure that's going to go over just peachy with the unwashed masses.

[Gravitus123]

Probably to just slow down the speed at which you can farm the event i mean if everyone could just kill Walmart Lephantis in 20 seconds like before they would be done with the event in a day or 2 then everyone would complain the event doesnt have enough content.

Its kinda obvious they just nerfed some things and threw the same event at us to kinda keep us busy since we havent had any substantial content this year.I wish they would have actually reworked the event to be more fun instead of a tedious slow marathon.Thankfully as dumb as the event is there is still a way to finish it quickly just grab a nova or rhino and use a fast firing crit weapon like the soma prime or prisma grakata and mod it for radiation/cold.

Im just hoping this isnt going to become a trend for all future events

[TotallyLagging]

so people don't just stack buffs and oneshot the boss

[Viges]

If it uses same mechanics as Juggernaut (which is most likely) then it has a dps cap, flat damage reduction and armor reduction all at once.

I suggest to watch that cool video if you are interested (not mine)

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Viges

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Solo'd that beast on my Hydroid Prime with my beatiful Vasto. Sliding, hoping, bopin. Was fun, dont trust randoms to not just leave/disconnect and somehow break Plains. Took forever for my friends to finally try it out with me.

[Naqel]

14 hours ago, Roll__Fizzlebeef said:

I might be in the minority here but I would hate it if the bosses died in one hit. I actually enjoy the challenge.

It's not a challenge, it's a chore that relies on a gimmick.
Had the game been balanced properly, we could have bosses without invulnerability phases or arbitrary caps.

[DrBorris]

25 minutes ago, Viges said:

If it uses same mechanics as Juggernaut (which is most likely) then it has a dps cap, flat damage reduction and armor reduction all at once.

I suggest to watch that cool video is you are interested (not mine)

-video-

I am fairly confident that is not the case based alone on the weird interactions Lephantis has with crits and headshots (A headshot generally has a higher damage reduction than a normal shot). And in addition, in my testing the damage reduction had a strong correlation between damage per shot and the damage reduction so I really doubt there is a DPS cap.

Keep in mind that Lephantis is a very, very old boss and at one point his damage reduction was affected by you Conclave rating... or his level was tied to conclave rating and his damage reduction was based on level. Which now that I think about it confuses me even more because different level Hemocytes appear to have the same damage reduction.

[Viges]

27 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

I am fairly confident that is not the case based alone on the weird interactions Lephantis has with crits and headshots (A headshot generally has a higher damage reduction than a normal shot). And in addition, in my testing the damage reduction had a strong correlation between damage per shot and the damage reduction so I really doubt there is a DPS cap.

Keep in mind that Lephantis is a very, very old boss and at one point his damage reduction was affected by you Conclave rating... or his level was tied to conclave rating and his damage reduction was based on level. Which now that I think about it confuses me even more because different level Hemocytes appear to have the same damage reduction.

Watch video with testings or continue speculations (like conclave rating) - it's up to you

[DrBorris]

35 minutes ago, Viges said:

Watch video with testings or continue speculations (like conclave rating) - it's up to you

Ummm, I did testings, a lot of testings. I am not disagreeing with that video, just with your speculation that Hemocyte/Lephantis uses the same calculations as a Jugg.

This spreadsheet

Spoiler

 

leads to this plot...

I dunno, there may well be other factors at play but I say with confidence that the DR is based on the amount of damage per shot not damage per second.

[SeaUrchins]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

 

Keep in mind that Lephantis is a very, very old boss and at one point his damage reduction was affected by you Conclave rating...

Not was, but is, and I can give you a list with bosses and the % of damage they resist :)