El mejor rework de limbo/the best limbo's rework (by a main)

[Enderfenix]

Últimamente se habla mucho de que limbo va a ser el siguiente warframe Prime y eso a mucha gente no le gusta porque cómo main limbo que soy he entrado a partidas en las que ni siquiera he utilizado ninguna habilidad y he procurado estar lejos de mi equipo y a los 5 minutos de la supervivencia han decidido irse y cuando pregunté: "¿por que?" Simplemente me dijeron: "por que eres limbo".

Llevo jugandolo desde antes de su primer rework y si bien me gustó mucho a mucha gente no, y lo entiendo yo mismo e jugado con una Trinity de duración y al tener mucho coste de energía he tenido que utilizar EV sobre enemigos constantemente y al no tener mi Tigris(por estasis)  no los podía matar y me costaba conseguir energía.

Visto esto me puse a pensar y encontré una solución, ahora extasis no paraliza pero relentiza MUCHO y no es afectado por fuerza de poder no tiene duración simplemente cuándo se activa afecta a cada enemigo (algo parecido como el 3) que hay en la grieta ya que con las otras habilidades determinas la duración de esta, las armas hitscan no se verán afectadas sin embargo los proyectiles sí y los enemigos asesinados/el daño que les hagas sanaran a los aliados/la fuente de daño.

De igual forma he tenido amigos que me han pedido que les meta en la grieta y al dar una voltereta hacia delante para avanzar más se han salido sin querer así que me gustaría que lo cambiarán a el mismo mecanismo que la velocidad de Volt ya que al dar una voltereta hacia atrás la desactivas.

 

Espero que les hayan gustado los cambios y que me pongáis vuestra opinión en los comentarios de igual forma espero recibir apoyo para que con suerte implementen esto el juego. 

/

Lately there is much talk that limbo is going to be the next Prime warframe and that many people do not like, because how I am limbo main I have entered games in which I have not even used any skill and I have tried to be away from my team and after 5 minutes of survival they have decided to leave and when I asked: "Why?" They simply told me: "because you are limbo".

I've been playing it since before its first rework and although I liked a lot of people not, and I understand it, myself I played with a Trinity of duration and having a lot of energy cost I had to use EV over enemies constantly and not having My Tigris(because stasis)  could not kill them and it was hard for me to get energy.

Seen this I got to thinking and I found a solution, now stasis does not paralyze but slows down A LOT and is not affected by force power does not have duration simply when active affects each enemy (something like the 3) that is in the rift already that with the other abilities you determine the duration of this, the hitscan weapons will not be affected however the projectiles do, and the enemies killed / the damage you do will heal the allies / the source of damage.

 

In the same way I have had friends who have said me to put them in the rift and when they roll forward to advance more they have left without wanting so I would like to change it to the same mechanism as the speed of Volt since when doing a roll backwards you deactivate it.

 

I hope you liked the changes and that you put me your opinion in the comments in the same way I hope to receive support so that luckily implement this the game.

 

[LSG501]

All they need to do to fix limbo's 3 is to just not stop player bullets, it really is that simple.

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by LSG501

[dopey_opi]

43 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

All they need to do to fix limbo's 3 is to just not stop player bullets, it really is that simple.

 

and also fix the wonkyness with hack panels and inserting datamasses in Cataclysm mode.  but, even that i could put up with (Operator workaround, etc), so long as they'd fix the obnoxiousness that is Stasis.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

All they need to do to fix limbo's 3 is to just not stop player bullets, it really is that simple.

It would certainly improve Limbo's acceptance on teams, but for balance I don't think that alone is a solution. 

If Stasis froze enemies but did not affect allies then Limbo would just build for range/duration and freeze the whole map while your allies just run through shooting things completely uncontested. Then after about a day and a half people would complain the game is too easy and that Limbo is too powerful. That's why it affected allies in the first place. I don't think that was the correct answer, but keeping it as is with allies being unhindered by it isn't the answer either. (That doesn't mean DE won't try it at least.)

A lot of players have been coming to the same conclusion that changing it to a slow would be the best overall balance for the current power unless they rework the kit or rift mechanics to be less of a pain.

[LSG501]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

It would certainly improve Limbo's acceptance on teams, but for balance I don't think that alone is a solution. 

If Stasis froze enemies but did not affect allies then Limbo would just build for range/duration and freeze the whole map while your allies just run through shooting things completely uncontested. Then after about a day and a half people would complain the game is too easy and that Limbo is too powerful. That's why it affected allies in the first place. I don't think that was the correct answer, but keeping it as is with allies being unhindered by it isn't the answer either. (That doesn't mean DE won't try it at least.)

A lot of players have been coming to the same conclusion that changing it to a slow would be the best overall balance for the current power unless they rework the kit or rift mechanics to be less of a pain.

But that's how most build limbo anyway, it doesn't matter if others can't shoot because the whole idea behind stasis build limbo is to protect the target without needing to kill anything unless you want to... it's also has weakness in as much as it's range decreases over time, not to mention the current design allows for certain weapons to almost instantly disable stasis, which to me is far more annoying than having to use melee....

Also apart from this thread I haven't seen or heard anyone else saying it needs to be turned into a 'slow' area plus we already have that with nova, the only complaints I see about limbo are the fact people can't use their guns and being trolled by putting the enemy into the rift so the player so you can't do anything or vice versa.

 

1 hour ago, dopey_opi said:

and also fix the wonkyness with hack panels and inserting datamasses in Cataclysm mode.  but, even that i could put up with (Operator workaround, etc), so long as they'd fix the obnoxiousness that is Stasis.

True that could do with being fixed too.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

But that's how most build limbo anyway, it doesn't matter if others can't shoot because the whole idea behind stasis build limbo is to protect the target without needing to kill anything unless you want to... it's also has weakness in as much as it's range decreases over time, not to mention the current design allows for certain weapons to almost instantly disable stasis, which to me is far more annoying than having to use melee....

Also apart from this thread I haven't seen or heard anyone else saying it needs to be turned into a 'slow' area plus we already have that with nova, the only complaints I see about limbo are the fact people can't use their guns and being trolled by putting the enemy into the rift so the player so you can't do anything or vice versa.

Most players I've talked to that use him for cooperative play build him for negative range, not max range. I use max range only for solo because it affects such a massive area in a such a huge way. Lol

I completely understand how Stasis works, Limbo is one of my mains, but that doesn't mean the rest of your allies will agree with your plan which is why he gets so much aggro from other players. I agree it's a pain when my Stasis is instantly broken by those weapons. I'm fine using melee when necessary but not everyone is. Giving him unlimited control capability with no downsides isn't an option though. 

There's been many posts since his rework suggesting a slow. It wouldn't be about a 'slow area' so much as everyone in the rift (and their projectiles) are slowed. Yes that would be similar to Nova in a way, minus the explosion and multiplied damage from other sources but Slow already isn't unique to Nova and it wouldn't even infringe on her slow as badly as blatantly giving Loki Chaos. But that didn't stop DE.

Actually, this dude has a pretty good rework idea that keeps him generally as is while just fixing the problems people have with him. It might be the best option just because no one agrees on the best way to change him.

 

[LSG501]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

 

I completely understand how Stasis works, Limbo is one of my mains, but that doesn't mean the rest of your allies will agree with your plan which is why he gets so much aggro from other players. I agree it's a pain when my Stasis is instantly broken by those weapons. I'm fine using melee when necessary but not everyone is. Giving him unlimited control capability with no downsides isn't an option though.

 

And you've just proven that it would be the simplest fix to just enable players to shoot stuff while they're in stasis... it would stop stasis being broken by weapons and it would stop annoying players that want to shoot the enemy.   It's also the easiest fix for DE to implement, they (in the most simple terms) just remove a small bit of code rather than needing to completely rework the ability.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

And you've just proven that it would be the simplest fix to just enable players to shoot stuff while they're in stasis... it would stop stasis being broken by weapons and it would stop annoying players that want to shoot the enemy.   It's also the easiest fix for DE to implement, they (in the most simple terms) just remove a small bit of code rather than needing to completely rework the ability.

it's the simplest change, but not a fix. As I mentioned before, if Limbo can stop time on all enemies with no drawbacks then his allies will just run through every mission without being shot at or attacked ever. Then it becomes a walking simulator with an occasional trigger squeeze.

Your change might not be so bad if Stasis is given a range and only affects enemies within a certain radius of Limbo while they're in the rift. But limitless range with up to a minute and a half duration of time completely stopped on enemies only is kinda the definition of broken....

[chofranc]

Dejaré esto por aquí, como usar a limbo correctamente(Tips & Tricks):

 

Estasis está bien como está, el problema no es que paralice a los enemigos, el problema es que para los proyectiles de los aliados, cualquier otro warframe que tiene CC parecido y que puede joder la fluidez de la misión puede ser molesto(Nova, Vauban, Frost, Gara, Mesa, etc). Si removieran eso de parar los proyectiles sería más pasable, pero si hicieran eso tendrían que añadirle una desventaja como hacer que estasis drene energía con el tiempo o algo parecido ya que por lo general, al menos yo, siempre tengo exceso de energía cuando lo uso.

Con lo de salirse con un Backflip en vez de simplemente rodar concuerdo contigo.

Edited April 9, 2018 by chofranc

[Enderfenix]

hace 27 minutos, chofranc dijo:

Dejaré esto por aquí, como usar a limbo correctamente(Tips & Tricks):

Si le he visto varias veces tiene ideas muy buenas, ahora que ya no paraliza ya no puedes que no puedes hacer lo de dejarles cortante (con melé y vital strike creo que era) y que ese daño te vaya curando con el tiempo así que por eso he puesto lo de regenerar vida con el daño y lo de que se mantenga infinitamente hasta que el enemigo salga de la grieta es precisamente por la build que tiene de poca duración ese control que no se ve afectado por la duración sino por cuánto permanece el enemigo sería lo poquito que necesita para que esa build sea eficiente. 

 

The issue of nova has given to talk about and I will also give my opinion because nova slows down and increases the damage and limbo slows down and in this case heal, it has also been mentioned in Gara Nova Frost and Vauban address that these offer control without No inconvenience in return Nix and Loki make them fight with each other which is more than just paralyzing them but in return they can also kill you if you get close enough

[LSG501]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

it's the simplest change, but not a fix. As I mentioned before, if Limbo can stop time on all enemies with no drawbacks then his allies will just run through every mission without being shot at or attacked ever. Then it becomes a walking simulator with an occasional trigger squeeze.

Your change might not be so bad if Stasis is given a range and only affects enemies within a certain radius of Limbo while they're in the rift. But limitless range with up to a minute and a half duration of time completely stopped on enemies only is kinda the definition of broken....

It is a fix, it's just not the fix YOU want. 

We don't need another 'slowva' type frame, we have plenty of frames that 'slow down' enemies in varying ways, the current limbo concept is actually a viable alternative to frost as a true cast in advance defence frame that prevents damage of the target (gara is not a cast in advance) meaning we can cast it, then run off and kill stuff without needing to babysit the defence target all the time.  

You say limitless range but it limbo DOES have a range, yes it's quite large but it does have a range and remember this range is reducing all the time. 

 

Oh and that link doesn't actually change stasis or fix it's actual problems, it just allows you to 'disable it' temporarily by holding 2 and fire beam weapons for half damage....

Edited April 9, 2018 by LSG501

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

18 hours ago, LSG501 said:

It is a fix, it's just not the fix YOU want. 

We don't need another 'slowva' type frame, we have plenty of frames that 'slow down' enemies in varying ways, the current limbo concept is actually a viable alternative to frost as a true cast in advance defence frame that prevents damage of the target (gara is not a cast in advance) meaning we can cast it, then run off and kill stuff without needing to babysit the defence target all the time.  

You say limitless range but it limbo DOES have a range, yes it's quite large but it does have a range and remember this range is reducing all the time. 

 

Oh and that link doesn't actually change stasis or fix it's actual problems, it just allows you to 'disable it' temporarily by holding 2 and fire beam weapons for half damage....

It's not about what I want at all. It's about not completely disregarding game balance to make some people happy. Stasis as it currently is isn't an option, most players agree with that. Not everyone likes the "slow" option because it's not creative enough, true, so propose something better that keeps game balance in mind while alleviating the problems he has rather than just picking apart everyone else's effort.

I wasn't referring to Limbo's range as a whole. I'm talking about Stasis range, specifically. Officially, it is "limitless" range, because it is rift-wide which is why I stated that, where it is limited only by the furthest rifted enemy on the map from you. Now, unofficially it may actually have a very large, limited range. I've never tested it's limits in somewhere like the plains to find the exceptions. My suggestion was referring to giving Stasis a more reasonable range that falls in line with other abilities, then it wouldn't be so game breaking to allow allies to shoot throughout Stasis.

As far as something more original, I've thought about another idea, which you may or may not like. Make Stasis a 'flicker' sort of effect. Every 3 or 4 seconds time resumes for a fraction of a second. Enemies would only get enough time to fire off a round or two at most, with minor twitchy movements before freezing again, but this would also allow ally projectiles to move to their target in that same time without as much risk of hitting the ability's projectile cap. Players wouldn't be prevented from using firearms (only minor delay), they'd still have the extra time to line up headshots/weakpoints or just spray bullets to their hearts content and we'd still be generally protected from most enemy assault.

[ZAXNIGHTMARE]

en lo personal el primer rework de limbo hizo que se ganara el odio que tiene ahora, dado a que los jugadores solian eliminar todo el mapa (hydron por ejemplo) con cataclismo, ahora aun se ve en menor escala, pero muchisimas personas le llego a molestar eso al punto que limbo acabo con tal reputacion... pero limbo de todas formas llega a ser un warframe util si se usa debidamente bien o se solicite en un squad organizado, solo es de no usar cataclismo en el momento menos indicado dado a que muchas veces que hay un limbo en un espionaje usa cataclismo y hace echar al que esta hackeando de la consola y ahi quedo la mision

 

no se sabe si limbo tendria un tercer rework pero si DE lee esta sugerencia y lo aplique, seria genial principalmente que Stasis no detenga balas aliadas
 

[Enderfenix]

En 16/4/2018 a las 9:29, ZAXNIGHTMARE dijo:

en lo personal el primer rework de limbo hizo que se ganara el odio que tiene ahora, dado a que los jugadores solian eliminar todo el mapa (hydron por ejemplo) con cataclismo, ahora aun se ve en menor escala, pero muchisimas personas le llego a molestar eso al punto que limbo acabo con tal reputacion... pero limbo de todas formas llega a ser un warframe util si se usa debidamente bien o se solicite en un squad organizado, solo es de no usar cataclismo en el momento menos indicado dado a que muchas veces que hay un limbo en un espionaje usa cataclismo y hace echar al que esta hackeando de la consola y ahi quedo la mision

 

no se sabe si limbo tendria un tercer rework pero si DE lee esta sugerencia y lo aplique, seria genial principalmente que Stasis no detenga balas aliadas
 

Gracias, se ha hablado mucho de limbo pero nadie ha dicho que le parece mi idea (ni para bien ni para mal ) (si sorry por llegar 10 días tarde)