If You Cant Play The Video Game Dont Blame The Video Game. An Arid Discussion.

[Psychosist]

Dedication from the start doesn't mean greed, the real greedy people are the over self entitled people who are complaining about not getting enough points because they decided to start late.

It's not "starting late". Starting late would be going in at the last second. I actually started on Day 2, expecting that I had a few more days to complete the event. Before I could get my game on, some several thousand members whizzed past me for those mods that everyone else wanted, leaving me behind.

 

I get it. The six days thing was a deadline, it didn't reflect how long the event would go on. Yes, I knew the event would end early. Yes, I've been looking at the past event, the Formorian Ship event.

 

But this is different. With the Formorian Event, we finished early, but only by fourteen hours or so. We used up a lot of the time we were granted.

 

This event ended at 50% of the deadline. That's not even close to using most of our time. I expected the event to turn out as before -- ending on, say, Wednesday, maybe Thursday. That'd be a good use of the time given. This was rush, rush, rush.

 

I wasn't planning on the event to end on this Friday. I knew the event would end early. What I didn't know, was that the event would be over three whole days before the deadline.

[Zamte]

Part of the problem is that when DE set a high bar, enough for everyone to roll high... everyone freaked out. The Floater event was rife with "DE YOU DONE GOOFED THE PROGRESS BAR IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FILL" QQ. With Sling Stone and Arid Fear, we're seeing "OH NOES IT'S TOO EASY TO FILL" QQ. If we want to empower the community when it comes to the event, so many factors will play in that we're never likely to get a 'perfect' one that doesn't in a huge QQfest in one direction or the other.

 

Right but the issue there isn't in the numbers, it's in the equation.

 

Currently the maximum number of people who can complete the event is X/100.Where X is the total points required to complete the event. This would work if X were active players * 100 for reward purposes. However this won't work for an event, because it then requires every single active player to get to 100.

 

The problem is inherently the system of a limited point pool. This guarantees either they set the bar too high and people don't reach it, or they set it too low and many people are left out. The obvious solution is to make the point pool infinite and simply set a threshold. This is what people want, and is what people expected because that is how video game events generally work.

 

The alerts should still be going, the keys should still be able to be used. Who cares if we got all the info we needed? There are more corpus we can capture. We're going to continue capturing them outside of the event, may as well allow us to do it within the event. There is no downside to doing this except to exclude people.

 

That's my major concern here, really. DE could have ended it as soon as we hit 100%, excluded a bunch of people due to their own design, left a bunch of people with no time or difficulty scheduling friends and clan members upset, or they could have just left it running for the whole time like they did with the balloons and the fusion moas. They chose the former, excluding people. Why?

 

Events should not be designed in such a way that they exclude parts of the community by design. These events certainly should not exclude people from the event and then further exclude more by encouraging certain people to take more of the limited points than they need.

 

That's the real issue here. It's not about jobs, or schedules. It's about limits. Had every active player on Friday night gone nuts and we had a million players get their 100 points, we might have had it all done before people woke up on Saturday morning. People WERE going to be excluded. No matter how quickly they did it, no matter when they scheduled it. People rushing to do it earlier would have done nothing but earned them rewards at the cost of somebody else.

[DrRandom7]

It's not "starting late". Starting late would be going in at the last second. I actually started on Day 2, expecting that I had a few more days to complete the event. Before I could get my game on, some several thousand members whizzed past me for those mods that everyone else wanted, leaving me behind.

 

I get it. The six days thing was a deadline, it didn't reflect how long the event would go on. Yes, I knew the event would end early. Yes, I've been looking at the past event, the Formorian Ship event.

 

But this is different. With the Formorian Event, we finished early, but only by fourteen hours or so. We used up a lot of the time we were granted.

 

This event ended at 50% of the deadline. That's not even close to using most of our time. I expected the event to turn out as before -- ending on, say, Wednesday, maybe Thursday. That'd be a good use of the time given. This was rush, rush, rush.

 

I wasn't planning on the event to end on this Friday. I knew the event would end early. What I didn't know, was that the event would be over three whole days before the deadline.

 

It wasn't a dead line, it was a time limit to complete the 3 phases, I've already said this.

[Psychosist]

It wasn't a dead line, it was a time limit to complete the 3 phases, I've already said this.

"deadlines plural

1. The latest time or date by which something should be completed.

I'm using the right term, just a synonym for what you're saying. I know 100% it was a time limit.

 

Again, I estimated the event to be over one or two days before the deadline (or as you like to say, time limit), not two days after the Escalation phase was announced.

[EmptyVoid]

I'm going to post this again because the fanboys who deem it necessary to ridicule us for trying to communicate with the devs about our dissatisfaction over how this event was handled just aren't getting it.

 

Plain and simple, upon wave completion, it should not end the ability to get the mods that were announced 1/3 of the way through the event.  The timer said 6 days, it should have been 6 days, and this sets thing off on the wrong foot.  The progression bar is only there to let us know how close we are to unlocking the new grineer settlements. This gives the impression going forward, that these types of things are only meant to benefit the clans in the existing tiers that are spamming this for that little trophy, effectively increasing the speed at which the progress bar is filled at an alarming rate, and those who can sit down for most of their weekend and do nothing else but play being that life doesn't demand much of them.  It's kind of ridiculous and I personally don't see why you are complaining about people expressing their dissatisfaction about how this was unprofessionally handled. It is perfectly within our rights to try and communicate with the devs.  Fanboys will be fanboys though. This is a company that makes money from micro purchases by it's user base and we have every right to express our views. It's their job to adequately communicate with us, and if they didn't do so then they need to work on it.

[Zamte]

It wasn't a dead line, it was a time limit to complete the 3 phases, I've already said this.

 

What you just said is "It wasn't a deadline, it was a deadline".

Deadline means "The time you have to complete X by".

 

What you've said is the same drivel everyone else who got their 100 points is saying.

 

 

There were a set number of points to go around. If everyone did it on Saturday morning, the SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE WOULD CURRENTLY BE UPSET, they would just be different people. They would have no points because people burned through the pool too quickly. DE needs to either use a bigger pool, or considering that this just makes the event more likely to fail and pools are stupid, they ought to stop using a pool to begin with!

 

I've already said this as well.

[FractalMind]

DE have repeatedly stated in their livestreams that they want to create events that the community fails to complete. I think it's a good sign that they continue to underestimate the dedication of their player base. It means that they are humble and not overconfident in their creation. If DE routinely overestimated their player base then the game would quickly die through unassailable challenges.

 

Those who complain that the challenge was completed too early are actually complaining that the game is too easy. A f2p game depends on it's players for it's survival and if the game was too hard then many would leave. If the game was too easy then the player base would degenerate and the game would die. This event was a community challenge. Sure, the big clans took a huge chunk of the available points, but did they really take so much that the million or so players suffered so much?

 

It would be nice to see the actual statistics. The total number of points available would be nice, but if not then the percentage of the event that was achieved by the top scoring (ranked and rewarded clans) would be good. My intuition tells me that the contribution by organised clans will be eclipsed by the contribution of huge numbers of "lone wolf" players who have squadded up purely for this event.

 

It's a matter of finding balance. The most difficult aspect of game development.

 

Edit: To put this in perspective, I'll add that I manged to complete the event with only a couple of minutes to spare thanks to the assistance of my excellent 3-man-clan.

Edited August 13, 2013 by FractalMind

[Mak_Gohae]

I'm going to post this again because the fanboys who deem it necessary to ridicule us for trying to communicate with the devs about our dissatisfaction over how this event was handled just aren't getting it.

 

Plain and simple, upon wave completion, it should not end the ability to get the mods that were announced 1/3 of the way through the event.  The timer said 6 days, it should have been 6 days, and this sets thing off on the wrong foot.  The progression bar is only there to let us know how close we are to unlocking the new grineer settlements. This gives the impression going forward, that these types of things are only meant to benefit the clans in the existing tiers that are spamming this for that little trophy, effectively increasing the speed at which the progress bar is filled at an alarming rate, and those who can sit down for most of their weekend and do nothing else but play being that life doesn't demand much of them.  It's kind of ridiculous and I personally don't see why you are complaining about people expressing their dissatisfaction about how this was unprofessionally handled. It is perfectly within our rights to try and communicate with the devs.  Fanboys will be fanboys though. This is a company that makes money from micro purchases by it's user base and we have every right to express our views. It's their job to adequately communicate with us, and if they didn't do so then they need to work on it.

 

What?

You come up with your own rules on how this should be done and then say they are doing it wrong according to you?

Do you see the problem here?

DE set their rules and everyone should be following those.

You can communicate your ideas on how you think this could be done differently, fine, but dont come out and say they messed up just because they didnt appease your schedule.

[-chaR]

Exactly, and if people interpreted this wrong, then they're the only ones to blame. 

Having to play for 2 hours over a weekend wasn't much of a grind, and if you read up on the event, you'd know that it only held 3 phases.(of which we could see the progress bar)

They even go further to claim that DE was the problem with the information. These people complaining simply want to be rewarded the same as the people who ground out points, when they clearly don't read the forums, and didn't care about the event until the mods were added. 

[Rammiton]

Logic here is, because you're ignorant to something you have no right to complain. Horse S#&$ to the max. I was gone since last Friday and got home today. I could complete just ONE mission. But read it would last 6 days, not end in 3.

 

How is that okay?

 

Not to mention these events are basically a "I got the bigger $&*^" for clans so these clan members eat up the progress while solo players get stomped on. Clans are ruining  this game.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Rammiton

[-chaR]

I don't think it is the clan's fault. I should have posted something more productive than blaming people. I didn't even get 50 points, just 40 because I started out trying to solo. Yes, soloing is the way I prefer to do things, but this round I had to go into Recruit chat and play with randoms. I farmed up a few keys and basically chatted 'hey anyone looking to run'? 

 

You do have a point about the clans though. With a set amount of points to go around, anything after 100 was taking the points away from someone else. However, that is what makes the mods even more appealing, imo. The point of the OP's post was that if you don't have time to play as much as others, should you be rewarded the same as people who play more? I saw a post somewhere talking about a way DE could implement diminishing returns after hitting the point cap for the rewards, so maybe there is something to that. 

 

My point is, I don't think this is all DE and clans faults. 

Edited August 13, 2013 by -chaR

[notlamprey]

I decided to plan for something like this, and I was prepared when it did.

Does that mean everyone who didn't think the same way I did was dumb or lazy? Of course not.

It sucks that these events have a built-in "soft competition" mechanic. A limited pool of points that will always shut some people out of the rewards isn't a good idea.

Let's assume that every community member had known about all the rewards, and was able to play as much as they wanted. Everyone could go hard for the goal, and the limited pool of available points would still shut out a large segment of people who "didn't have the best frame," "couldn't host groups," "didn't have a huge clan," or whatever. A limited point pool is stupid. Let the people who want to compare surrogate willies have their Statue Hunt, and let the competition stop there.

Limited point pools, at their logical conclusion, spread the stress of competition to everyone in the community. It alienates casuals, and it isn't good for Warframe. If you want to make events that can be failed, stop whipping everyone with your cattle prod and see if they still try.

/rant over for now

[Rammiton]

I don't think I should be given all the mods because I didn't have a chance to do the event. That's just idiotic. I just want the chance to do the event if I miss 3 or 4 days if it's supposed to go on for 6. I think it would be a good idea to limit the amount of points you can contribute to the event. Such as... 100 points per person, something like that. If you continue to do the event then award those "extra" points to the clan, not to the progression of the event.

[Mak_Gohae]

Logic here is, because you're ignorant to something you have no right to complain. Horse S#&$ to the max. I was gone since last Friday and got home today. I could complete just ONE mission. But read it would last 6 days, not end in 3.

 

How is that okay?

 

Not to mention these events are basically a "I got the bigger $&*^" for clans so these clan members eat up the progress while solo players get stomped on. Clans are ruining  this game.

 

No the logic here is to not blame DE for your choices. You chose to not inform yourself on the situation then that's all on you.

You can suggest new ideas on how to handle this as much as you like but dont blame DE for whatever reason you decided not to play until it was too late. After the last event i dont know why anyone would be confused about the deadline we have has nothing to do with the progression the players decided to take.

[JDP04]

the truth is , for 3 days i got some charity work for poor people in my place with my old man.

it's easy decision for me.

i'm sad the event ended too soon.

i'm not complaining, neither i'm blaming DE.

Just get over it people, life is full of choices, sometimes you can't get everything. :)

Thankfully DE will still make the mods obtainable, maybe from enemies drop or nightmare rewards.

[Slaskia]

Just my opinion (keep this in mind), but they really should get rid of the 'competition' aspect of these events (e.g. rewards for the top x number of players/clans, if not leaderboards in general).  It's plain to me that it's causing nothing but problems (events being finished early before many players have a chance to be eligible for rewards for whatever reason, the elitist attitudes of many players...etc).   You can have events without the competition aspect and still have rewards (just look at any number of other MMOs: in many of their events, the only competition is with yourself, essentially).

 

Guild Wars 2 Mad King's Clocktower, for instance?  Yes there were other players there, but ultimately it was your own skill and determination that made you succeed in the end. LotRO events had some competition elements, but, again, it was mainly against yourself and your skills:  just about anyone can achieve the festival rewards eventually with enough time and dedication (same with many events in Everquest 2).  City of Heroes (RIP) had definitely more cooperative events where you had to help other heroes (or villains) to get the reward, but they also had races where you had to complete it in a certain time limit.

 

Granted, all those examples were holiday events that usually came back year after year, but what I am trying to say is: trying to encourage competition on an e-sport level is doing more harm than good.  For me, the new plant/tileset would have been reward enough for me and I participated when I could, mostly with clanmates that can only play for a few hours late at night.  We probably could have gotten more points than we did, but we loathe rushing content (and that this particular event seemed to really force rushing left a sour taste in our mouths): hell, I only have over 50points because I took the time to pug a few CV missions so I could get the Vigor mod and it was pain because of all the rushers (and people not destroying the damn cameras so they didn't impede other teammates!), though I did my best to keep up.

[Fiia]

Seriously...

 

You folks that have "a life" (this is the reason you keep bringing up) are not going to hold everyone hostage and mess the whole system up. All the events have had a tremendously decent requirement for getting all the rewards that consisted of nothing more that a couple of hours of play. A couple of hours for a couple of days if you want to take it slow.

 

These events have a deadline but that deadline does not state when the people should finish it. The people themselves are the ones that determine when the event finishes. Yes, the first couple of events they let you continue for the half of day that was left but that does not mean that this is what was going to happen with every event. That was obviously a bonus because that was just their first attempts at events. 

 

If you want to wait for the last possible second to get in, for whatever reason, that is all on you. The rest of folks here have, like you, their own schedule and it has been shown that these folks, made made up of all sorts of different schedules, are not going to wait to the last possible second to pop in. That's a bad plan. So dont blame everyone else for your planing.

Maybe like the game, others are in beta.

It seems to work if things go wrong in the game (just say it is in beta) so cut others a bit of slack, they may be in beta as well.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Fiia

[Azure_Kytia]

I'd personally like to see a paradigm shift from "the bar is 100%, mission complete" to "the bar is 100%, we've got the upper hand now and are just mopping up." Would allow other players to participate in the mop up crew without having the avid players soaking up the points that would net 10 or 20 players all-tier rewards.

[xenapan]

You can't say its a 6 day event and not last 6 days even if its 100%

 I dont get what part of it you people dont understand.

 

We had 6 days to COMPLETE the event. It was COMPLETED before 6 days. Thats a player thing. not a DE thing. It was designed so that it could be done WITHIN 6 days. We completed it in 3ish/4 days.

 

I EASILY completed it in a few hours on the SECOND day. I waited till the prizes were announced THEN I started grinding. I had done ONE point the first day (soloed both alerts, then soloed the CV). It was more than easily doable. I didn't even grind all that much or hard. I even soloed a chunk of it. (all but maybe 3 or 4 of the alerts I soloed, then soloed probably a dozen CV missions until I realized multiple people = multiple points)

[Rammiton]

but dont blame DE

I don't blame DE... Never said I did.

[Cleesus]

Another flame post by Mak_Gohae

[Arlayn]

Here is the problem I see. In the live stream they said this event was designed for us to fail... if they really wanted it to be that hard they should've made it harder and required we gained more points. The future... I see a far harder event...

[Operator_Error]

I don't think it is the clan's fault. I should have posted something more productive than blaming people. I didn't even get 50 points, just 40 because I started out trying to solo. Yes, soloing is the way I prefer to do things, but this round I had to go into Recruit chat and play with randoms. I farmed up a few keys and basically chatted 'hey anyone looking to run'? 

 

You do have a point about the clans though. With a set amount of points to go around, anything after 100 was taking the points away from someone else. However, that is what makes the mods even more appealing, imo. The point of the OP's post was that if you don't have time to play as much as others, should you be rewarded the same as people who play more? I saw a post somewhere talking about a way DE could implement diminishing returns after hitting the point cap for the rewards, so maybe there is something to that. 

 

My point is, I don't think this is all DE and clans faults. 

 

My point is that I should be entitled to use the materials that I farmed to gain the reward I would have been entitled to, if the event timer hadn't been rushed by other people that clearly had the time to obsessively speed-run the void capture missions. I farmed keys, why would I not be permitted to use them up, as people have suggested? The timer said there was a maximum of 3 days left for the event to potentially run, and yet, I now have void keys that I can no longer use, even though I spent the time to obtain them.

 

That seems like an attempt to dissuade casual gamers, since we'll be unable to compete with the large clans, during events that use this style of progression.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Operator_Error

[Grandarex]

lol. I agree with OP. 

You would think people would've understood the concept of "finishing the event early" since the Fomorian event. 

 

Can't wait for DE to release another event with a few days as deadline and watch as the forums flood with people upset about it finishing "unexpectedly" early.

[Rivy]

As some have said, I think the issue lies in the fact that these events have a limited number of points for the whole playerbase, and players can get more points than the rewards require them to, which means people who would have played the event were always going to be left out.

 

 

These are supposed to be coop events, not competitions; everyone should be able to have a slice of the cake.