Kubrow and Kavat RNG?

[2ply]

So,

I'm going to keep this simple and to the point.

 

Think Riven like RNG applied to the Kubrow or Kavat at it's birth. *Once a drop of "substance" is added during Incubation. (optional)

So the attributes, Health, Armor, Attack, Crit, Speed?  Those items could be randomized at birth.

NOW, think imprints...

The RNG values on the animal will be applied to the Imprint.

2 imprints from the same animal form exactly the same attribute values.

1 imprint mixed with a different imprint would result in a new RNG that leans in favor of the strongest stats from both imprints.

 

Now think of the implications.

You could actually PRICE imprints based on the attributes, a whole NEW market will open up for Breeding Kavat and Kubrow,

People will actually be talking about farming up kubrow and kavat stuff again...you'll have a reason to touch that material at any time.

The imprints will have meaning and be special not only because of the color of their skin, but for whats inside!

 

This is just a suggestion:

Totally Optional: if the "substance" isn't added at incubation, the RNG values do not take effect, So you can get a "stock" companion.

If the "substance" is added, the Attributes: Health, Armor, Attack Strength, Crit Chance, will be randomized without negatives just lower values, unlike Rivens.

This may open up the possibility for a tankier Smeeta, or a more deadly Chesa.

 

I'm evolving this idea with edits as I receive good feedback to shape it into something generally acceptable and mutually beneficial.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by 2ply

[Kuez]

More RNG - great idea!
 

Spoiler

SARCASM!

 

[2ply]

1 minute ago, Kuez said:

More RNG - great idea!
 

  Reveal hidden contents

SARCASM!

 

lol, I know, but more opportunity to make platinum and have special unique items just for YOU!

[PrivateRiem]

1 minute ago, 2ply said:

lol, I know, but more opportunity to make platinum and have special unique items just for YOU!

I'm a big fan of non-sentinel companions, but that suggestion is just throwing oil on the companion vs pets sh*tstorm we've been having for a while.

Imagine, you randomly roll the best looking (in your opinion) kubrow you could possibly dream off, and it comes with absolutely atrocious stats.

[Kuez]

Well the problem lays on the basis of the idea.
It would be fully comparable to randomly generated Warframe or weapon stats (+25%/ -25% form base stats [for example]).

It just doesn't stick. 

[2ply]

16 minutes ago, PrivateRiem said:

I'm a big fan of non-sentinel companions, but that suggestion is just throwing oil on the companion vs pets sh*tstorm we've been having for a while.

Imagine, you randomly roll the best looking (in your opinion) kubrow you could possibly dream off, and it comes with absolutely atrocious stats.

You can re-color, re-pattern and cover it with shiny armor bits if you aren't satisfied with the default skins.

[Kuez]

18 minutes ago, PrivateRiem said:

I'm a big fan of non-sentinel companions, but that suggestion is just throwing oil on the companion vs pets sh*tstorm we've been having for a while.

Imagine, you randomly roll the best looking (in your opinion) kubrow you could possibly dream off, and it comes with absolutely atrocious >>>stats.<<<

1 minute ago, 2ply said:

You can re-color, re-pattern and cover it with shiny armor bits if you aren't satisfied with the default skins.

Stats @2ply, stats - not the looks.

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Kuez

[2ply]

17 minutes ago, Kuez said:

Well the problem lays on the basis of the idea.
It would be fully comparable to randomly generated Warframe or weapon stats (+25%/ -25% form base stats [for example]).

It just doesn't stick. 

Well, people are talking about rivens for warframes...rivens for kubrow and kavat? Thats a cool idea I guess.

But it doesn't offer the same potential as a kubrow or kavat born with moderate stat adjustments based on the same system as rivens. 

It may not stick without proper balance, much like rivens are due for, but it is still something deeper with the breeding process than slapping on a riven in a slot needed for armor or health.

It's opening a new market to selling Imprints with subjective value over that of just cosmetic effect.

And, it could result in some interesting "beast master" potential, if one so desires to have most of their damage coming from their pet and not a gun or warframe ability.

[2ply]

2 minutes ago, Kuez said:

Stats @2ply, stats - not the looks.

 

I understand his point, the point being is cosmetic appeal is not stuck in stone, the stats and the cosmetics don't have to conflict with each other. Granted you will have to invest in new color options if you aren't happy with the default, but most people do in this game. On a side note, getting that RARE Unicorn of a Kubrow or kavat with the perfect stats and default color scheme would make that particular Imprint very valuable.

[PrivateRiem]

2 minutes ago, 2ply said:

I understand his point, the point being is cosmetic appeal is not stuck in stone, the stats and the cosmetics don't have to conflict with each other. Granted you will have to invest in new color options if you aren't happy with the default, but most people do in this game. On a side note, getting that RARE Unicorn of a Kubrow or kavat with the perfect stats and default color scheme would make that particular Imprint very valuable.

Size can't be changed and is purely random.

[2ply]

7 minutes ago, PrivateRiem said:

Size can't be changed and is purely random.

That is true, size is something that is set in stone. 

So we have 1 factor that is actually a 50/50 in terms of probability, because not everyone likes huge animals not everyone likes small ones either. But everyone likes more power and more platinum. So this issue will work out in the wash, and ultimately make BOTH extreme varieties small and large kubrows with "good" stats worth more platinum because of their specialty, much like rivens are today with special guns.

 

And to my point, the implication of a new interest in breeding, a new market for selling imprints and the likelihood of finding the right kubrow you want, big or small with stats that you can agree with will become more abundant as a result of this new fever for breeding and selling the imprints.

Edited April 13, 2018 by 2ply

[Kuez]

18 minutes ago, 2ply said:

I understand his point, the point being is cosmetic appeal is not stuck in stone, the stats and the cosmetics don't have to conflict with each other. Granted you will have to invest in new color options if you aren't happy with the default, but most people do in this game. On a side note, getting that RARE Unicorn of a Kubrow or kavat with the perfect stats and default color scheme would make that particular Imprint very valuable.

Spoiler

See that cat? That's my cat. He has 1 out of 9 energy colors, 1 out of 5 tails and 1 out of 4 head/ ears that I wanted.
HALF OF A YEAR - that's how long it took me to get it... I still ended up merging two different imprints together, because noone had it.
If I also had to hunt for good stat one, I'd go nuts - that's the problem. 

We already have enough RNG when it comes to companions - end of the story.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Kuez

[2ply]

15 minutes ago, Kuez said:

  Reveal hidden contents

See that cat? That's my cat. He has one out of nine colors, one out of 5 tails and 1 out of 4 head/ ears that I wanted. There's 
HALF OF A YEAR - that's how long it took me to get it... I still ended up merging two different imprints together, because noone had it.
If I also had to hunt for good stat one, I'd go nuts - that's the problem. 

Hey, I totally understand that took a long time and it was very specific in nature.

But, do you think if companion breeding was a much more invested market where you could find all those tails and those colors and heads, and ears in a much larger availability and quantity, with an array of different flavored stats attached to them, priced accordingly, for your specific desired effect...then on top of all that, you can play around with that pet's imprints and mix a new monster of your own...

I mean, you got an amazing looking Kavat, I'd be proud of that work you put into it, and don't get me wrong, making all the cosmetic options available from your local general pet store wouldn't be too cool either...

Had you this system half a year ago, you could have focused on the stats you wanted over all the trouble it sounds like you had finding those specific visual elements.

And I think maybe, they focused too much on cosmetics from the start, because that was the ONLY thing that made imprints worth anything. The ONLY thing. The market for that is abysmal.

Abundance of variety will come, once interest is increased in the process of breeding. So will come an array of "good" stats. If you enjoy the hunt of finding those specific visual effects...you can become a breeder..so half of your year spent finding the unicron could have also been spent selling off the kavats you didn't want to keep.

Or at least those imprints with good stats that are worth something to someone. As not everyone cares for visual effects in this game either.

I mean, in that half a year it took for you to collect the right DNA for that specific kavat, how much platinum did you make on the Imprints along the way? And, if you did sell them...how much more could you have made if they had some randomly decent stats attached to the imprint?

Again, all this during your quest to build the perfect cosmetic kavat, you could have blended in stats like a chemist to not only make the best looking but also a monster of a breed, but if that is too much of a headache just purchase the exact imprint you want, and hope to find a good deal with one that has some decent stats.

Edited April 13, 2018 by 2ply

[Kuez]

If there just was a way to improve the stats... (like in the Division - they introduced the system, where you can get your item level [or however it's called] higher by spending some currency earned through playing) I could see that beeing remotely alright.

...but as I said - and I'm going to repeat myself - when I see "more RNG" type of ideas, I refuse. Tyvm! 

[2ply]

4 minutes ago, Kuez said:

If there just was a way to improve the stats... (like in the Division - they introduced the system, where you can get your item level [or however it's called] higher by spending some currency earned through playing) I could see that beeing remotely alright.

...but as I said - and I'm going to repeat myself - when I see "more RNG" type of ideas, I refuse. Tyvm! 

Fair enough, Thank you for the input, you've added a good point for consideration.

 

 

[LSG501]

Considering how much the RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG nature of rivens is basically despised by most people, adding it to something else just seems, to put it bluntly, rather stupid, especially when your whole reasoning is about pushing sales of imprints for inflated plat prices, something else many of us don't agree with on rivens... 

You also don't explain how this would impact existing pets, I sure don't want random rng applied to my already fully forma'd (iirc I have one slot left without polarity on all my main pets) only to find it could end up with worse stats than it had originally. 

And obviously the next logical step to this suggestion would be 'rivens' for companions... considering I'm literally at my limit of the 60 point capacity with my existing mods there is no physical way I could work a riven into a build without getting either more points or removing a 'high value' mod (plus likely adding another forma)

[fluffysnowcap]

@2ply I clicked on this page thinking you were arguing for more controll of the RNG on your non-sentinel companion, but but instead I just see someone arguing for the worst RNG possible on kubrow and kavat. It is bad enough that their ability barely work when you want them to, and now you are after making there stats Worse/better, If this happens im throwing them all out the airlock and marrying Carrier prime, as ammo case and vacuum always work as described, unlike the Living companions.

[(PSN)Fairfied]

Interesting, though I hate the rng of rivens.  Like others have said more rng doesn’t sound fun, more grind :(

Perhaps the concept could be refined some more, key point, no more grind please

[2ply]

4 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Considering how much the RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG nature of rivens is basically despised by most people, adding it to something else just seems, to put it bluntly, rather stupid, especially when your whole reasoning is about pushing sales of imprints for inflated plat prices, something else many of us don't agree with on rivens... 

You also don't explain how this would impact existing pets, I sure don't want random rng applied to my already fully forma'd (iirc I have one slot left without polarity on all my main pets) only to find it could end up with worse stats than it had originally. 

And obviously the next logical step to this suggestion would be 'rivens' for companions... considering I'm literally at my limit of the 60 point capacity with my existing mods there is no physical way I could work a riven into a build without getting either more points or removing a 'high value' mod (plus likely adding another forma)

Actually good point you bring up.

To refine the edges a bit, with existing companions, and to make this "OPTIONAL" so those of  you who like your standard pet attributes can have them, with NO RNG.

BUT,

for those of you who would like to play around with the random numbers I've considered an adaptation, what about an additive during incubation.

Just like that other thing I don't want to mention.

Maybe the ability to add an amount of kuva or something into the incubation to produce the "riven like" RNG to the attributes such as strength, armor, attack, etc. And, continue with the genetic imprint idea for market fun.

That would be cool, because those of you who like the system as is, can just not add the kuva to the mix when you're in the incubation phase.

[2ply]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Fairfied said:

Interesting, though I hate the rng of rivens.  Like others have said more rng doesn’t sound fun, more grind :(

Perhaps the concept could be refined some more, key point, no more grind please

I personally accept the rng of rivens, and I accept the rng of the game in total because that is what it has always been.

Warframe has always been and should always be RNG through and through, because otherwise everyone can get exactly what they want without chance.

And chance is what makes effort and determination pay off when you're in a sea of peers with everything everyone else has....chance allows you to have something truly limited or at least temporarily unique.

Life is about chance, you don't know what you're going to be born into, and you don't know what life will have of you, but you do know you'll exit one day, but that too is chance.

In a video game, chance is something hard to produce naturally and RNG is a very close substitute.

But as for the concept being refined, and the grind. I respect that, it is a rough spur of the moment idea, and that is why we're discussing this, to refine. As for it being a "grind" it's not a grind if you don't want it to be, just like anything else. Everything can be a grind in Warframe. Plague Star, Kuva, Focus, Eidolons, it's all about repetition. It's getting better and faster and having more fun doing those reps that makes the core game mechanic of Warframe. 

So, we're talking about doing something you've already done, such as all of the above. Now, we are adding the new thing, that is adding something to the mix at the time of incubation for a "riven like" roll of the attributes on the pet. This is a refinement from the original idea, thanks to Fairfied.

The element of RNG will only be applied at your will, otherwise the pet comes out "stock". The grind is in your mind. The reality is, there is nothing you haven't done and won't do again unless your "life RNG" number comes up.

 

Just a quick edit, there are actual "grinds" in this game and many many others. It's just what has to be done to add longevity to the content.

Frankly, if you could pick what guns the riven goes to, or what stats you're going to get, or when you're going to get anything in Warframe, it would lose it's luster very quickly. That being true of most any game with any time of "grind" for achievement, rank, weapon upgrades, levels...anything. We crave the carrot, but we really don't want the carrot that quickly, we enjoy milk too.

Edited April 13, 2018 by 2ply

[(PSN)Fairfied]

1 hour ago, 2ply said:

I personally accept the rng of rivens, and I accept the rng of the game in total because that is what it has always been.

Warframe has always been and should always be RNG through and through, because otherwise everyone can get exactly what they want without chance.

And chance is what makes effort and determination pay off when you're in a sea of peers with everything everyone else has....chance allows you to have something truly limited or at least temporarily unique.

Life is about chance, you don't know what you're going to be born into, and you don't know what life will have of you, but you do know you'll exit one day, but that too is chance.

In a video game, chance is something hard to produce naturally and RNG is a very close substitute.

But as for the concept being refined, and the grind. I respect that, it is a rough spur of the moment idea, and that is why we're discussing this, to refine. As for it being a "grind" it's not a grind if you don't want it to be, just like anything else. Everything can be a grind in Warframe. Plague Star, Kuva, Focus, Eidolons, it's all about repetition. It's getting better and faster and having more fun doing those reps that makes the core game mechanic of Warframe. 

So, we're talking about doing something you've already done, such as all of the above. Now, we are adding the new thing, that is adding something to the mix at the time of incubation for a "riven like" roll of the attributes on the pet. This is a refinement from the original idea, thanks to Fairfied.

The element of RNG will only be applied at your will, otherwise the pet comes out "stock". The grind is in your mind. The reality is, there is nothing you haven't done and won't do again unless your "life RNG" number comes up.

 

Just a quick edit, there are actual "grinds" in this game and many many others. It's just what has to be done to add longevity to the content.

Frankly, if you could pick what guns the riven goes to, or what stats you're going to get, or when you're going to get anything in Warframe, it would lose it's luster very quickly. That being true of most any game with any time of "grind" for achievement, rank, weapon upgrades, levels...anything. We crave the carrot, but we really don't want the carrot that quickly, we enjoy milk too.

I salute you sir, guess i’m just feeling a little worn out and jaded atm