What's everyone's thoughts on Rhino's Passive Ability? Suggestion included.

[Jathniel]

Does anyone use Rhino's passive ability to noticeable effect?

My suggestion is to swap the effect of Rhino's #1 with his Passive. This effectively turns the #1 into a Mini-#4, with less damage and no time delay effects. While the Passive would be, that when Rhino is sprinting, he can cause minor damage to enemies and deliver a knockback.

I think this swap gives Rhino a bit more utility than is currently provided.

Thoughts? Yes? No? Why or why not?

Edited April 13, 2018 by Jathniel

[Firetempest]

Never liked it, has never helped me.

Could have simply been something like Excalibur

Improved mastery in the Tenno art of the hammer, receiving +10% attack speed and +10% damage bonuses for melee attacks while wielding hammers.

[shut]

I hate it. The upside hardly ever comes into play, and becoming temporarily blind and deaf every time I jump off a platform is not helpful and never will be.

I'd literally rather he didn't have a passive ability. That is how little it adds to my Rhino gameplay.

[taiiat]

oh i was beat to the punch there - yeah it's terrible. Rhino already has 2 Abilities that apply CC (3 if you use Iron Shrapnel). so all it does is make really loud annoying sounds all the time and flash more blinding PFX in my face.

i also exactly would prefer nothing (like Chroma. heh) than this if that's the choice i had to make.

 

and your suggestion ironically is what i was thinking of as a 'quick easy not a lot major effort in the brainstorming department' passive. simply being able to Knockdown Enemies that you Sprint into. sitll basically pointless because Rhino has plenty of CC to begin with, but atleast it would feel cool to use instead of annoying.

i wouldn't make Charge into a crappy Stomp though - then we'd be going back to the Radial Blast & Stomp days. having two Abilities that are identical to each other except one is 'just a s...ty version of __'. not good.
the Passive being remotely similar to Charge wouldn't be a problem since Charge would still be massively more effective.
redundant Abilities is how we get Warframes that Players almost universally dislike or don't enjoy using for the most part. such as Titania... or if you ask Players their serious opinion on Chroma as a Warframe to play, rather than a Warframe to Equip for one Mission and not use for weeks after... or Nyx sorta... or the reception to Zephyr gaining Air Burst, you get the idea.
Warframes having multiple Abilities that do very similar things, or Abilities which are something you can sorta do with any Warframe without an Ability - aren't situations to desire. even a Sprint Knockdown Passive and Charge existing at once isn't so great for that exact reason(but removing Charge is absolutely, 205% not the solution to that sort of conflict!)

[blazinvire]

He needs something that lets him build sprinting momentum so he can mini-charges just by running around.

And I also saw a nifty suggestion ages ago where he automatically pushes enemies out of his way like the unstoppable force.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

I needs to proc knockdown at the least to be any use..

 

Fun fact the mod that gives this ability triggerd on zephyrs dive bomb.

[True_Naeblis]

If it stripped armor or something and had decent range it would at least be somewhat useful. Changing it to a passive that gives bonus damage for all melee weaps would be nice. Changing it so that a certain amount of absorbed damage goes into the next melee attack would be nice and would work well in pretty much any situation.

No, it's not a good passive, nor is his and Ash P's 400 energy max with Primed Flow. Those two things are pretty long in the teeth and need an update.

[Jathniel]

Yeah good feedback. 

I would definitely like to see the passive changed for something else. 
Charge as an ability needs to be revisited. I use Charge, but more as the occasional pointless blitz, and less because I find it useful. 
I don't like that. 

I felt my suggestion kept with Rhino's themes of Size and Weight, without changing him up too much, but if you guys have better ideas, I'm all for continuing dialogs on it. Maybe someone from DE may want to chime in.

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

Yeah I'm in full agreement there.  I always thought it should work something like:

Unstoppable Force:  Being knocked down has a chance to trigger a small Iron Skin.

[Xzorn]

Rhino's passive is similar to Nova's Passive where you only see it if you did something wrong  and even then it does nothing.

If you do a hard landing at higher levels; it's going to get you killed. No one should be doing hard landings.

The theme is fitting so maybe if it just always proced when Rhino hits the ground regardless of style or if he had an innate collision impact proc.

[Unagi604]

Rhino's passive is garbage. Over the thousands of hours I've played, I've only ever seen it effect enemies twice and even then, it wasn't spectacular, or at all helpful.

 

Also, the sound it makes is stupid.

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Rhino's passive is similar to Nova's Passive where you only see it if you did something wrong  and even then it does nothing.
If you do a hard landing at higher levels; it's going to get you killed. No one should be doing hard landings.

i mean to be fair, if you hit the ground Sliding or whatever else that prevents having to catch yourself, it does still activate.
not that i blame you for not noticing since it's just annoying to have trigger.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Would have been better if his passive made slamming attacks more powerful and increased the range. Like the higher you are the greater and wider the slam due to his weight. But just falling from a certain height is just lame. There was a couple of times I’ve had enemies knocked me back and I would hit the ground and do the same thing and the enemies close up would get knocked down too. So it was kind of funny. But in general it just sucks. 

[(PSN)H_Obsidian]

Literally useless, even Zephyr’s passive is better

[Prof.549]

Yet another useless passive. Like all of them.

And they are not supposed to give a huge advantage(or any really). So i doubt they would change it.

[Xzorn]

On 4/13/2018 at 11:21 PM, taiiat said:

i mean to be fair, if you hit the ground Sliding or whatever else that prevents having to catch yourself, it does still activate.
not that i blame you for not noticing since it's just annoying to have trigger.

 

Does it? I generally land with a roll so I didn't even know it worked with an old fashion butt slide. I play Rhino a decent amount too, he's my 3rd or 4th most used. I guess that's a testament to how often it happens and/or useful it is.

It definitely doesn't work if you land with a roll.

The passives for frames in general are pretty off though. Esp when you compare them to something like Ash. I don't really count Nidus but Ash's passive, Gara's passive, Ivara's passive there's some pretty good ones then some total duds like Rhino, Ember, Hydroid, Nova and blatant cop outs like Chroma.

[Get_Singed]

Passives are just there to add some extra gameplay mechanics that are related to the Warframe's lore. Most of them are useless or rarely used, but make sense from a lore standpoint. Rhino is the big heavy heavy heavy frame so he makes a shockwave when he hits the ground. Chroma is a dragon and can use different elements based on his energy color because dragons can use different elements I guess. Frost is super cold and freezes melee attackers, Zephyr is made of Oxium so she's light weight. Passives don't need to be game changing or anything like that. It makes sense, leave it as it is.

[Soupf8]

My opinion has always been; "if there is a mod for rhinos passive, let there be mods for every frames passive, or, change rhinos passive, or change heavy impact"

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

What if rhino had an unstoppable force kind of passive where if he sprints for a certain period he would be able to push back any and all enemies out of his way? Unless they do an actual attack that would knock him down, he would brush them off. That would be a more useful passive than this “DOG PILE” ability. Or I guess it would be “rhino pile”. 

[Jathniel]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

What if rhino had an unstoppable force kind of passive where if he sprints for a certain period he would be able to push back any and all enemies out of his way? Unless they do an actual attack that would knock him down, he would brush them off. That would be a more useful passive than this “DOG PILE” ability. Or I guess it would be “rhino pile”. 

This is basically, what I had in mind. Kinda like Volt's passive. Rhino's kinetic force increases as he runs. Basically, turns him into a train. 
We can easily give Rhino, a good fun-to-use passive, that doesn't throw off game balance. 

Again, I would prefer to swap the general concepts of the passive with Charge, because I find Charge pretty useful useless. But there are good reasons not to do that. By fkin with Charge, it can really throw off a lot of the work people have put into their setups with Rhino. 
And ultimately, changing the passive is really what I think most of us want. I would really like a kinetic impact/knockback passive for a sprinting Rhino.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Jathniel
strike out useful

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, Get_Singed said:

It makes sense, leave it as it is.

they make sense thematically, but this isn't a movie.

and why then should some other Passives actually make a difference in Gameplay? they should all fall under 'useful in some ways'. and Warframes definitely shouldn't be skipped over for no reason - Nidus and Chroma are still missing Passives.

Edited April 16, 2018 by taiiat

[Get_Singed]

11 minutes ago, taiiat said:

they make sense thematically, but this isn't a movie.

and why then should some other Passives actually make a difference in Gameplay? they should all fall under 'useful in some ways'. and Warframes definitely shouldn't be skipped over for no reason - Nidus and Chroma are still missing Passives.

This may not be a movie but it certainly is a game with its own lore, and the devs try their best to stick to the lore as much as possible. Not every passive has to be what you define as "useful." Nidus and Chroma do have passives. Nidus is literally unkillable with more than 15 mutation stacks and has passive health regen that no other Warframe has. Chroma's abilities change their elemental damage and effects based on his energy color. Just because you don't find some passives useful that doesn't mean they don't exist. Take a look at the passives of most Warframes. They're almost all "useless" 90% of the time or so insignificant you won't notice their effects. His passive fits thematically and that's what matters. Ember's passive literally requires her to be effected by a heat proc for it to even be active and it's only active while she's on fire. It's there because it fits her theme, but for her to need to actually be taking burn damage for it to activate is stupid from a gameplay perspective. Passives are there to fit the theme, not to add some amazing bonus ability.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Get_Singed said:

and the devs try their best to stick to the lore as much as possible.

Not every passive has to be what you define as "useful." Nidus and Chroma do have passives. Nidus is literally unkillable with more than 15 mutation stacks and has passive health regen that no other Warframe has. Chroma's abilities change their elemental damage and effects based on his energy color. Just because you don't find some passives useful that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Take a look at the passives of most Warframes. They're almost all "useless" 90% of the time or so insignificant you won't notice their effects. His passive fits thematically and that's what matters. Ember's passive literally requires her to be effected by a heat proc for it to even be active and it's only active while she's on fire. It's there because it fits her theme, but for her to need to actually be taking burn damage for it to activate is stupid from a gameplay perspective. Passives are there to fit the theme, not to add some amazing bonus ability.

that's literally untrue - the story of the game is adjusted to conform to whatever is created for the game. the universe does not dictate the game here.

 

Chroma does not have a passive. that's literally part of his Abilities. calling that a Passive is just wrong. "and your super power is that you can use all of the pockets on your pants, instead of them being sewn shut". ahuh

Nidus self reviving perhaps could be considered as a Passive - however the Health Regen, Power Strength, and Armor """"Passives"""" are a complete lie. just means that Nidus has higher Stats to start with for Power Strength related Stats and for Armor. the Health Regen is a part of his Abilities. this would be like saying Inaros' Passive is that he doesn't have Shields but has high Health and his Abilities can Heal him. (which the game actually does try to say that). that's just a lie. that's a part of how the Warframe operates, it isn't just a side thing. it's a critical, core part of the Warframe.
a Passive that a Warframe needs for the Warframe to work correctly, isn't a Passive. it's a part of the Warframe.

 

okay let's look at most of them.
ones that can be useful:

• Ash gets bonus DPS.
• Atlas is immune to CC while on the ground. (Rubble is not a Passive, it is a part of the Abilities. it cannot function without the Abilities)
• Banshee always has Suppressed Weapons.
• Equinox has a partial strength built in Equilibrium.
• Excalibro gets Damage/Attack Speed with some Melee Weapons and Exalted Machine Gun.
• Gara Blinds Enemies periodically.
• Inaros has the Coffin ressurection thing.
• Ivara has Enemy Radar.
• Loki can Wall Latch for a really long time
• Mag has Vacuum.
• Mesa gets Reload/Rate of Fire with Pistols. (the Health Bonus is complete garbage though, useless)
• Mirage Bullet Jumps and Rolls faster.
• Nekros Regens some Health by things dying nearby.
• Nezha slides.
• Oberons' Companions are more durable and Revive themselves.
• Saryns' Status Effects last longer.
• Titania Bullet Jumps farther and shares this.
• Trinity can Revive faster with a larger Range.
• Valkyr recovers from Knockdowns faster and can't trigger heavy landings.
• Volt can give a significant Damage Bonus to any and all forms of Attack.
• Wukong has a longer Melee Hit Counter.
• Zephyr stays in the air longer.

granted ones like Ash/Excalibro/Mesa just means their Abilities have higher Stats to begin with, similar to Nidus' Power Strength. not as much of a Passive then as increasing the Ability Stats in a convoluted way.

 

ones that aren't useful or are bad or have an effect that ties them directly into their Abilities:

• Chroma doesn't have one. 'access to your Abilities' is not a Passive. infact this being "the Passive" literally hurts the Warframe and is part of why Chroma is useless outside of literally one thing in the game(and even then there are better Warframes for it, just that they're harder to use) currently.
• Frost basically requires dying to use it because it's not reliable enough.
• Harrow has an Ability that 50% revolves around Overshields(and Abilities which consume Shields), so Overshields is.... a part of his Abilities.
• Nova will never Knockdown anything that Knocks her down because Enemies that are Knocking down Warframes are literally immune to Knockdown while performing it. and Enemies that wouldn't be immune to it while performing it (such as a Bombard) will be too far away to get hit by it.
• Hydroid..... on paper it could be useful but in play, not really. even though it can let you get the Pilfering Swarm Effect without using any Energy, that's still not really useful.
• Limbo.... that's literally a core part of his Abilities.
• Nyx.... Disarming Enemies is part of Loki/Nyx becoming clones of each other but it also literally is a nerf if you ever use Mind Control.
• Rhinos' is completely useless and annoying.
• Boobens' is comically useless. the idea isn't bad but the effect of it is totally nil. it makes no difference in Gameplay despite modifying Gameplay related Stats.

some neutral mentions:

• Octavia - the Energy Regen on Cast basically just means her Abilities cost less. it's useful but 'Abilities that cost less Energy than advertised' isn't really what i can call a Passive perse. sharing it does help but idunno.
• Nidus - you did remind me of the self reviving, i had forgotten about this because was thinking of the generic Stat upgrades that are also a """"Passive"""" for him.
• Ember has a good idea but too situational to actually use.

 

 

 

the point of this is - the ratio of thematically appropriate and actually useful in some way is notably higher than "this is useless or this is not a Passive in the first place because it's a core part of the Abilities".
if the Warframe won't work right without the Passive, then it ain't a friggin' Passive. try taking away Limbos' "Passive". just f...ing L.O.L.

[Soul-scar]

His passive should be "hits the ground running" and not "sit down for 5 seconds after a 6 foot drop creating a stupid sound and visual effect". It feels like he sits down a bit longer sometimes to justify the special effects, so bad.

Bad passives include,

• Mirage - Long acrobatics and longer slide? Never noticed
• Nezah - Longer slide? This frame is AWESOME!
• Oberon - Tougher pets and an instant pet revive? I can see the appeal if someone uses pets but when I use pets I don't use oberon.
• Titania - Bullet jumping after her is a bit difficult when she is almost constantly in fairy mode.
• Vauban - My favorite passive, more armor per close ally? Just give him more armor or would that require more nitain?
• Mag - Bullet jump sucks in stuff? If I have to bullet jump over it I would have already collected it.
• Volt - Generates electrical charge and is released on the next attack. Fine if I want to run 500 meters to kill a single OPAF guy on the PoE, otherwise?
• Ember - While on fire, probably from a napalm, regenerate energy and do more damage even though you are very likely dead.

When you compare them to ,

• Nidus - Stomp on shhhhhhhyt become immortal. I see the appeal, also generates health passively if immorality wasn't gud nuff.
• Atlas - Immune to knockdown. When isn't that helpful?
• Banshee - Silent weapons, so many applications.
• Chroma - Energy colour dictates elemental damage....So cool.
• Equinox - Built in equilibrium
• Excalibur - More sword damage and speed, meh but makes sense.
• Frost - Freezes melee attackers. Meh but again makes sense.
• Gara - Radial blind in certain lighting conditions. Pretty decent free CC.
• Harrow - double overshields. Perfect complement to skillset.
• Hydroid - Spawn a flaccid willy that slaps enemies in the face when you smash one out. It "sucks" but it is hilarious euphemism ergo amazing.
• Inaros - Turns into a coffin sucks enemies to prevent death. Personally annoys me but it isn't bad IF you die as inaros.
• Ivara - Enemy sense. Great complement to stealth warframe.
• Loki - Can hang on walls for ages. Pretty good for some riven challenges although not particularly useful otherwise.
• Limbo - Can enter void at any time. Amazing! Also can troll any team on any map, bonus.
• Mesa - reload and shoot faster. I mean why not right?
• Nekros - Kill stuff and drain life. Saved me a few times.
• Nova - Upon being knocked down do a small AoE knockdown. Sounds bad? Saved me sooooo many times.
• Octavia - Energy regen upon using skills. As if she needs something as good with that skillset?
• Nyx - A crappy rip off loki's augment or is it the other way round? Still, possible disarm on skill effect, pretty decent.
• Saryn - Longer status effect. Almost in the bad passives but as Saryn's DoT is monstrous it is great.
• Trinity - Fast revives. Great as a support frame.
• Valkyr - Faster recovery from KD. Great on a melee frame.
• Wumong - Longer combo. Saves a mod slot. Shame about the frame, saved me a WF slot. He basically saves slots.
• Zephyr - One of my favorite passives. Slow motion bullet jump. Kill X guys with headshots in a single aim glide, time saver.  

I think Rhino is top of the list of garbage passives as it is not just completely trash but annoying af. It mocks you as you sit down after a small drop highlighting the fact you are sitting down and probably being cut in half by gunfire. The BWARNNNG sound is ironic as anything making that sound should kill lv3000 enemies in a 2 mile area however all it does is say HERE I AM as you are again shot by everything you didn't actually physical land on.

[Flames21891]

On 4/14/2018 at 2:29 AM, Prof.549 said:

Yet another useless passive. Like all of them.

And they are not supposed to give a huge advantage(or any really). So i doubt they would change it.

Octavia, Atlas, Harrow, Gara and Nidus would like a word.

Warframes should have a passive that compliments their playstyle. A few do, but most have passives trying to emphasize the theme of a Warframe (Ember and Oberon being shining examples) rather than something that helps their actual kit. This is where the problem lies.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Flames21891