Lunaro's current issues

[-Ryuurei-]

Lunaro is a sports-like PvP mode in warframe where the objective is to get the ball into the goal for points, you can hold the ball for 5 seconds, have better access to mobility without it and can check the holder to have them drop it. Combined with Warframe's movement system the speed at which it's played can be pretty high, but this makes it enjoyable. However, it has some major issues, which will be outlined in this and following weekly posts. (at least as long as I can remember to make them)

I'll be reviewing every mechanic here and adding my opinionated (gasp) comments on them:
Ball holding: you can pick it up by simply moving into the same space as it, and you can pull it towards you with the magnet feature of the Arcata. If you hold it for 5 seconds or you bullet jump you drop it automatically and get knocked down in the process. There is another mechanic to replace the magnet when you're holding the ball called ball-guard, which allows you to keep holding the ball after 1 check hits you, a second check will force you to drop it regardless. Everything here except for ball-guard is fine, ball-guard only serves to enlarge the gap between good and bad players, rather than close it as intended, this will be further outlined in "Checks", as it's more appropriate there.
Ball throwing: tap the throw button to do a short distance, low power throw, hold for a stronger throw that travels farther. There's another button (default R) to pass the ball to an ally who has a chevron over them (only appears when aiming in the general direction of a player within range). Passes move faster and have homing capabilities unless they interact with terrain. All of this is perfectly fine, though sometimes the ball tends to go very close to the ground for no reason, making it more likely to touch it and stop homing, ruining the pass.
Movement: normalised for everyone regardless of frame choice (at one point zephyr's passive applied to her, not sure if fixed, will check when possible, it just made her a worse choice though). Bullet jumping drops the ball if held at any stage of it's animation (meaning it has to be cancelled if you wish to grab it mid-jump), players can use each other as platforms for jumps, along with terrain such as walls, pillars and even the goals themselves. Mostly fine, though the player interaction can sometimes cause players who move very similarly to block each other's mobility with their bodies, cutting off one another's height, decreasing each other's speed or making the game interpret jump inputs wrongly (walljump off a player instead of a bullet jump). It can also provide the opposite effect and boost a players speed shortly as the one behind them essentially forces them forwards.
Checks: first check (normally) staggers whomever is hit, second one knocks down. Checks on the ground are a dash, followed by 2 short-range non-mobile melee hits, checks in the air are always a dash (unless also sliding, then it's a rolling kick like sparring melee, same as on the ground). The throw button can also be used for the same purposes but with different range and animations. Has some major issues: if one player is lagging, they won't be staggered most of if not all the time, and definitely won't lose the ball even after multiple checks within the same possession, I believe this to be a combination of not-staggering due to lag displacement not truly registering it as a check or animations overriding the stagger and ball-guard allowing the player to keep the ball. Hence why ball-guard is a terrible mechanic.
Unstable ball: Happens when the ball is not held and is hit by a check/slap(=throw button attack), adds +1 to the points a goal is worth and is able to pass through players, knocking them down in the process. All sounds fine, except for the fact that the knockdown can be rather wonky: for example, if someone is even a tiny bit laggy (around 50ms ping or higher), they will get knocked down even if they hit the ball with a check or slap, and the ball will only change direction after passing through them. With even more lag you can even get knocked down by your own shots due to the delay on them actually moving. This makes goalkeeping a lot more difficult than it needs to be, because you can save the ball, getting knocked down in the process, only to be faced with a rebound shot you can't do anything about because you're still getting up. The hitbox is also slightly larger than the actual ball, which can make close dodges just knock you over or blocks mistimed when they would've worked if the hitbox for knockdown was fine. I propose a change to checks that makes it impossible to be knocked down (but still staggered) when someone is in any state of the dash, start to end.
Assists: Only count if the first action after any type of throw from one player is a goal, if someone gets a pass, then does a setup to unstable and it goes in, no assist is given. The only way to get an assist for an unstable is to throw it and have someone else hit it/hit it and then someone else hits it. Using the magnet to drag it on course for someone else also does not count (even though it clearly helped).
Saves: Only counts if grabbed/deflected via hitting when directly on target, hitting a bounce shot before the bounce does not count, using the magnet to drag it off-course does not count, having any kind of lag makes checks hitting unstables extremely wonky, where even VERY clear hits don't count. Also "dunking" is an issue, where the scorer just rubs their face in the goal and shoots, making it impossible to stop (which combined with the check immunity listed above can be pretty annoying).
Misc.: current issue where end of match triggers crashing, already being worked on, netcode for some players with lag could be better (there are people who can hit a ball that is halfway into the zone for everyone else and get a 3, they can have this same distance to hit players and grab the ball too, it looks ridiculous). Higher fps (don't need to be displayable, just existing) speeds up game mechanics, giving people an advantage.
Delay before pickup/unstable: also known as DElay by active players, 0.5s delay after a throw in which ONLY THE THROWER can not interact with the ball via hitting or picking up. Was introduced to kill instants (very grateful for this DE), but it's too long, please lower to 0.3s.

I'll be making this post weekly, changing as I see more or less issues, or am able to word things better. Feedback appreciated.

Edited April 13, 2018 by --Q--DragonSkllzz

[NoLazyShadow]

Just rework that lunaro ball holder for operator and focus. Turn useless pvp into new Operator toy to use in left arm. This opens so much potential and synergy with other nodes

[Lawmonark]

My main issue with Lunaro..... FPS determine speed in which you recover and can react.

What i mean is, if i lock my frames to 60 and other player has 144+ they have an advantage.

Yes, i fully understand that this is true for most aspects of any game. But even on a 60hrz monitor and uncapping the frames, the player with higher frames currently has a speed advantage.

 

Old post but still true today: 

 

 

 

[-Ryuurei-]

5 minutes ago, Krhymez said:

My main issue with Lunaro..... FPS determine speed in which you recover and can react.

What i mean is, if i lock my frames to 60 and other player has 144+ they have an advantage.

Yes, i fully understand that this is true for most aspects of any game. But even on a 60hrz monitor and uncapping the frames, the player with higher frames currently has a speed advantage.

Old post but still true today: 

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Will add under misc. It's easy to forget the struggle once you've had better hardware for a long time it seems...

[Funki0]

I concur, even tho there are some small things I don't fully agree with.
One of the biggest issues is the ball guard, yes. It ruins a lot of matches by being too inconsistent or granting unnecessary advantage where they shouldn't be.
(Also, the 0.5sec delay is horrible. I suggest lowering it to about 0.2 or 0.3)

[-Ryuurei-]

3 minutes ago, Funki0 said:

I concur, even tho there are some small things I don't fully agree with.
One of the biggest issues is the ball guard, yes. It ruins a lot of matches by being too inconsistent or granting unnecessary advantage where they shouldn't be.
(Also, the 0.5sec delay is horrible. I suggest lowering it to about 0.2 or 0.3)

How could I forget the DElay?! Also what don't you agree with, I wanna know.