TennoGen Round 12 - Accepted Items!

[Nerohype]

Still no Wukong Mithra ? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1127390225

@[DE]Taylor  the rework for this skin was done month ago - and an alternative wukinng skin is hardly needed !

[WhiteCr0w]

13 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

It may be high-quality. It may be aesthetically-pleasing. It may resemble Sentient stuff. It may even be comparable to DE's deluxe content (like Chroma Deluxe and Nova Deluxe). But Tenno-style, it is not.

I was a bit skeptical of your comments at first, but you knocked it out of the park with the example images you cited. Wow, talk about a contrast. One group clearly represents a dark, organic, technological fusion, and the other ... pretty much came right out of an anime or Final Fantasy game. Seriously, I dig Warframe's aesthetic because it ISN'T those things. I agree; someone dropped the ball somewhere. Hard.

@[DE]Taylor If you are involved in choosing Tennogen items, can you shed some light on this?

Edited April 14, 2018 by WhiteCr0w

[lexandritte]

9 hours ago, VadiseReikaz said:

What is so difficult for people to enjoy the game and do what THEY like to do in it, instead of being bothered by what OTHER people like to do in it? If you dont like the Nova Skin, then dont vote for it. If it gets selected, then dont buy it. What are you so hurt over? It is their game, and they can choose whatever they want. Tennogen is voluntarily made, nobody is entitled to anything, if their piece gets chosen, they get a cut. If it doesn't, they dont.

So what is your deal? it bothers you that other people enjoy content that you do not? Cut me a break, if a skin comes out that that people like and it breaks the aesthetic, then what's the big deal? If people like it, and DE decides that it is appropriate in their game, then it is a good thing. I dont like a lot of the Tennogen, but I know other people love what I dont. And I dont go around the forums whining that the thing I wanted didn't get selected

The problem is not quite that the skins breaking the aesthetics are accepted, problem is that while those skins are accepted, more aesthetic-fitting skins are rejected "because they stray too far from Tenno aesthetic"

 This makes it almost impossible for content creators to guess what art direction they should follow to be accepted, since there seems to be little rhyme or reason behind some choices.

[OniDax]

5 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

You'd think that developers aka official creators themselves that created literally everything in this game including this faction would know better.

But apparently not and some random nobody knows best, as always. 

Taylor is a member of the community team. She's not one of the artists. Also, I'm a Tennogen artist, but it doesn't take an artist to recognize the contradiction in DE's statements when they accept stuff that doesn't look like Tenno stuff and yet reject other items that are much closer to the Tenno style.

[SkyeFeatherfall]

Wow some people need to chill out. Lukinu_u's work get voted most of the time but the second volt skin this round has less than 300 votes and looks exatly like Nyx and Oberon's infested-ish skin which makes  us wonder who is choosing, the commu or DE.

Plus some artist see their work refused cause it "doesn't fit in the game" while some "funny" or "really really specific" stuff are accepted and the example taken was lukinu_u polearm skin which is a mic. 

Some people are just confused about what is too far from the game and what is allowed.

Also some people like one skin and some won't. But it doesn't mean you have to be harsh. Nothing is bad, you just don't like them.

So now instead of creating a drama over a preference, can we get answers from DE or once again they will avoid the question. :T

Edited April 14, 2018 by ---SO---Crystallyser

[MaceMadunusus]

4 minutes ago, ---SO---Crystallyser said:

second volt skin this round has less than 300 votes

Just want to make a note for people so things are clear. Don't judge the amount of votes by the amount of favorites displayed. They are not the same thing.

[Zanchak]

I am really digging all the creepy alien lookin stuff @Vulbjorn is doing... my wallet hates me, I dont care. lol

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

Also, I'm a Tennogen artist, but it doesn't take an artist to recognize the contradiction in DE's statements when they accept stuff that doesn't look like Tenno stuff and yet reject other items that are much closer to the Tenno style.

The definition of Tenno style is slick and highly technological and all that nonsense. Even if Diva skin looks a bit goofy with her ponytails - which if you will forget that those are ponytails is just an energy effect, overall those things pass the requirenments. Especially Mirage skin. There's literally *nothing* wrong with it. I won't say anything about polearm because it's polearm. It's not worse than many other weapon skins and even logically weapon skins don't matter as much as warframes no matter how they look. After all, Poseidon's trident "doesn't fit" warframe too but didn't get such hate as well as Dominion skin. 

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. And I'm saying it as someone that never bought any of the mentioned skins or Graxx skins for example, but even so I can see that there's nothing wrong with them. Also just because you're a creator doesn't mean anything. Creators usually have each their own style and that's it while even in same exact category like Grineer/Corpus/Tenno/ect you can find very different things. 

[lexandritte]

1 hour ago, Mana_Caldaria said:

1. If you have to "guess", you're not good enough a content creator to begin with. I expect a capable artist to properly identify and emulate existing styles. No guesswork there. There are more than enough examples in the game for them to work with. I consider this another layer of quality control.

 

There's plenty of examples of syandanas, skins and weapons in the workshop that got the style down to the T, but their works were never accepted.

Hell, there are works within same style that got accepted and rejected at the same time. lukinu_u's stuff - Mithra sword accepted, Wukong Mithra rejected. Lympharis staff accepted, Lympharis Titania rejected.

When you got things like that going on, you can't just look at blanket "does not fit aesthetic" rejections and take them at face value.

 

 

[lexandritte]

17 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Nothing to share right now about more weapons - sorry! The weapon class vs weapon name is feedback very interesting. I believe that they're set up like that for a reason but I can definitely look into this since it might be confusing for newer creators.

Yep! As indicated in the original post, we do send out feedback to on certain pieces following the round's announcement. It'll be shared as soon as we can finalize some things, hoping for early next week. 

If you don't receive feedback, it is because your creation simply strays too far from the Warframe aesthetic or doesn’t quite accomplish enough to differentiate it from other works. As always, please be sure to check out the various guides we have here: http://www.warframe.com/steamworkshop/help/index.php?page=basic-art-guide

My understanding is that when Tennogen first rolled out, DE quickly put together a limited guide with very select weapons to make skins / model swaps for, as a test bed, and it never got updated. Over the time Tennogen got popular enough that weapons were created based on class, rather than specific items, but Tennogen submission procedures did not catch up with that.

It's confusing for creators and it's confusing for people who browse the workshop. I clearly labeled my submission as Polearm, and still had people asking why it was only an Orthos model swap.

 

Also, please, please, please let us model swap for other weapon kinds. Tennogen pool is stagnating, as you've said, one of the requirments is that our submissions have to be different enough from others - well, it's very difficult to do that when we only have six weapons to work with.

My personal desire is to make arrow and quiver model swap because Ivara is my baby, but there's no avenue for me to do that.

 

Tennogen has grown a lot in popularity and demand over the years with both players and the creators, the DE backend needs to catch up to that.

 

How big is Tennogen handling team at DE? Is there just not enough manpower to process all models? Is that why we get at best a dozen admissions per Tennogen round despite at least twice as many worthy applicants?

 

Why did previous round have been split into three separate parts to get in all the awesome things that have been submitted, but in this round we get ONE weapon skin, that got accepted without it's Warframe counterpart skin on top of it?

Edited April 14, 2018 by lexandritte

[Chipboard]

@lexandritte I think you're on point with guides and procedure needing a tune up, if not for external tennogen stuff but for internal DE designs aswell.

Especially when it comes to consistency of things like colour labeling (my pet peeve & I'm looking at you Loki Knave, and you too Hulta Armor set) 

 

(I'll totally throw it out there that Limpharis Titania was probably rejected as Warframe starts to reach peak helmet hair)

Edited April 14, 2018 by Chipboard
added comment

[lexandritte]

Just now, Chipboard said:

@lexandritte I think you're on point with guides and procedure needing a tune up, if not for external tennogen stuff but for internal DE designs aswell.

Especially when it comes to consistency of things like colour labeling (my pet peeve & I'm looking at you Loki Knave, and you too Hulta Armor set) 

Figuring out their masking tutorial broke my brain. It had this complex description of how you need to use overlays of blue and red to create magenta that would be one mask and overlay red and green to make yellow that's you second mask... And Substance Painter can't do that reliably so I had to export to Photoshop and move the textures between that and substance like five times until it clicked....

In the second version I just painted magenta and yellow as is straight in Substance and it worked fine, apart from their weird thing that two particular masks can't touch each other, otherwise they get a white uncoloured pixel-thin line between them.

[Foefaller]

13 minutes ago, lexandritte said:

There's plenty of examples of syandanas, skins and weapons in the workshop that got the style down to the T, but their works were never accepted.

Hell, there are works within same style that got accepted and rejected at the same time. lukinu_u's stuff - Mithra sword accepted, Wukong Mithra rejected. Lympharis staff accepted, Lympharis Titania rejected.

When you got things like that going on, you can't just look at blanket "does not fit aesthetic" rejections and take them at face value.

 

7 minutes ago, lexandritte said:

My understanding is that when Tennogen first rolled out, DE quickly put together a limited guide with very select weapons to make skins / model swaps for, as a test bed, and it never got updated. Over the time Tennogen got popular enough that weapons were created based on class, rather than specific items, but Tennogen submission procedures did not catch up with that.

It's confusing for creators and it's confusing for people who browse the workshop. I clearly labeled my submission as Polearm, and still had people asking why it was only an Orthos model swap.

 

Also, please, please, please let us model swap for other weapon kinds. Tennogen pool is stagnating, as you've said, one of the requirments is that our submissions have to be different enough from others - well, it's very difficult to do that when we only have six weapons to work with.

My personal desire is to make arrow and quiver model swap because Ivara is my baby, but there's no avenue for me to do that.

 

Tennogen has grown a lot in popularity and demand over the years with both players and the creators, the DE backend needs to catch up to that.

Could that be why they're not accepted? I mean, not that those submissions are too much like each other, but too much like content that exists in the game?

I seem to remember, when the Excalibur Caduto skin was announced as accepted, that one of the devs (Steve maybe?) made an offhand comment of it almost got rejected for being too Ash (I'm guess specifically the helm looking too much like the Scorpion/Locust helms)

I do agree that it would clear up a lot if DE was more forthcoming to us why certain skins get rejected... but that would also basically mean asking DE to publicly explain why these submitters failed as artists (in the eyes of DE). I don't think there is anything preventing the artists themselves to explain why (I think someone in this very thread mentioned why his Chroma skin got in but the Hammer skin that went with it did not) but it seems like DE doesn't like to do "Reason you suck" posts about things unless the person involved raises a very public stink about it, and I've only heard about that happening with skins maybe once or twice.

[lexandritte]

5 minutes ago, Foefaller said:

 

Could that be why they're not accepted? I mean, not that those submissions are too much like each other, but too much like content that exists in the game?

I seem to remember, when the Excalibur Caduto skin was announced as accepted, that one of the devs (Steve maybe?) made an offhand comment of it almost got rejected for being too Ash (I'm guess specifically the helm looking too much like the Scorpion/Locust helms)

I do agree that it would clear up a lot if DE was more forthcoming to us why certain skins get rejected... but that would also basically mean asking DE to publicly explain why these submitters failed as artists (in the eyes of DE). I don't think there is anything preventing the artists themselves to explain why (I think someone in this very thread mentioned why his Chroma skin got in but the Hammer skin that went with it did not) but it seems like DE doesn't like to do "Reason you suck" posts about things unless the person involved raises a very public stink about it, and I've only heard about that happening with skins maybe once or twice.

I know the Chroma and Hammer skins you are talking about, but I haven't seen the explanation. Could you quote it?

[ExaltedHysteria]

while I'm happy to see the chroma skins got in, I'm kinda sad that so many don't seem to have gotten past this 'nebulous criteria' that the others have pointed out in design.

also is there a limit to how many you guys choose? it seems real inconsistent otherwise and so many great tennogen items got left out if so - perhaps less nyx or saryn skins if so in future? not that I think they're bad, just that there seem to be an abundance lately in comparison to other items that didn't get accepted? if there is no limit then I have no problem with it.

I hope I might get a chance to see these items in-game sometime, I woulda loved to have bought,

Nekros Graxx, Sydeko syandana, Eisen longsword, Zetsu excalibur (and in past rounds, exaltation excalibur, which I still hope might come around again) and nION syandana - i would have happily bought them all in a heartbeat and I was saving up for them in hopes some might get through.

still, I am glad to see chroma getting a little more love c:

Edited April 14, 2018 by FlawedLegacy

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

17 hours ago, Nova73 said:

agree with Apollyon on this, DE saying that Tennogen needs to fit into Warframes "Style" is no longer a valid argument after the Diva Polearm was accepted.

And after the "flower power" mod I am perplexed as to what DEs style actually is? 

[OniDax]

2 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

The definition of Tenno style is slick and highly technological and all that nonsense. Even if Diva skin looks a bit goofy with her ponytails - which if you will forget that those are ponytails is just an energy effect, overall those things pass the requirenments. Especially Mirage skin. There's literally *nothing* wrong with it. I won't say anything about polearm because it's polearm. It's not worse than many other weapon skins and even logically weapon skins don't matter as much as warframes no matter how they look. After all, Poseidon's trident "doesn't fit" warframe too but didn't get such hate as well as Dominion skin. 

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. And I'm saying it as someone that never bought any of the mentioned skins or Graxx skins for example, but even so I can see that there's nothing wrong with them. Also just because you're a creator doesn't mean anything. Creators usually have each their own style and that's it while even in same exact category like Grineer/Corpus/Tenno/ect you can find very different things. 

No one is saying that lukinu_u's stuff shouldn't be in the game. It's that lukinu_u's stuff being in the game means that other content should be in the game as well. The point is that it doesn't fit the Tenno style, so since since that stuff got selected, other items that do actually fit closer to the Tenno style should be accepted as well. DE's standards are unclear. And you make an excellent point about the recent Trident. That really isn't Tenno-style either, yet it's in the game.

 

The problem isn't with those skins. It's with DE claiming to reject some skins on the basis of them not fitting the aesthetic of a particular faction, yet DE has already accepted plenty of content that doesn't fit the aesthetic of a particular faction. Again, we're not saying that content should be removed from the game or shouldn't be in the game. We're saying that other content should be in the game because some of the content already in the game already doesn't fit DE's standards. To put it one more way: because there is already content in the game that doesn't fit DE's standards, other content that is rejected should also be in the game since they are much closer to DE's standards than that existing content.

[Foefaller]

1 hour ago, lexandritte said:

I know the Chroma and Hammer skins you are talking about, but I haven't seen the explanation. Could you quote it?

Sure, it was back on Page 2:

19 hours ago, Stenchfury said:

I might have went a bit too "fantasy" on that one :p Whopsie...

You actually quoted him yourself (and disagreed with the assessment). I guess you didn't realize that it was the creator you were talking to.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Foefaller

[lexandritte]

3 minutes ago, Foefaller said:

Sure, it was back on Page 2:

You actually quoted him yourself (and disagreed with the assessment). I guess you didn't realize that it was the creator you were talking to.

Errr, my bad. Thanks.

[AzureTerra]

17 hours ago, .God.Umbra.Shaman. said:

 And to echo what as been said multiple times throughout this post, our votes do not matter.

That has been abundantly clear for a while. You just have to hope the things you like get hit by the random selection wheel since nothing else matters in it, don't see the need to have a vote when its not used for anything

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

No one is saying that lukinu_u's stuff shouldn't be in the game. It's that lukinu_u's stuff being in the game means that other content should be in the game as well. The point is that it doesn't fit the Tenno style, so since since that stuff got selected, other items that do actually fit closer to the Tenno style should be accepted as well. DE's standards are unclear. And you make an excellent point about the recent Trident. That really isn't Tenno-style either, yet it's in the game.

 

The problem isn't with those skins. It's with DE claiming to reject some skins on the basis of them not fitting the aesthetic of a particular faction, yet DE has already accepted plenty of content that doesn't fit the aesthetic of a particular faction. Again, we're not saying that content should be removed from the game or shouldn't be in the game. We're saying that other content should be in the game because some of the content already in the game already doesn't fit DE's standards. To put it one more way: because there is already content in the game that doesn't fit DE's standards, other content that is rejected should also be in the game since they are much closer to DE's standards than that existing content.

So I just found out part of the reason that Nekros Graxx wasn't accepted. His hood can't have cloth physics....

But Harrow can?! I really am confused now. Nekromancers wear a hood. 

[(XBOX)BeastBuster1999]

Congrats to all the other creators with accepted pieces!

To the people who have and continue to support me, I just want to say thank you.  Your passion is a huge motivator for me to keep pushing myself!

I know some of you are expressing concerns about the designs needing further changes, but I wouldn't worry about it.  Throughout all the feedback I've received, I never felt like they were trying to change the skins into something completely different.  Just remember that the most recent versions exist because of DE's guidance and those changes (thus far) have been generally well received. 

I have no idea what kind of feedback I'll be getting, but I am eager to find out.  I do believe that whatever they say, will ultimately push the skins in a positive direction, as that's been the experience so far.  And I do promise that, as long as I am getting feedback from DE, I will never give up trying to get my work into the game!

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

I'll be missing having my dragon claws at my chromas feet but aw well

[-Temp0-]

2 часа назад, AzureTerra сказал:

That has been abundantly clear for a while. 

More so if you would actually bothered to read because De stated so themselves ages ago. What a bummer. A number of votes just shows an interest in the item and that's all it does.

[MagPrime]

That Mag Ferro Helm is going to be mine.