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[DE]Danielle

[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: Sanctuary Onslaught Feedback Megathread

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So the balance of beast of the sanctuary:

- Khora, we got a mediocre to decend halfbaked concept of a frame... meh, her #4 in particular is counterproductive

- Saryn, the remaster, what a fine mess thatis this one... just a badly disguised attempt at a nerf that pablo himself admitted on his twitter that failed on all fronts, pity he isn't willing to admit defeat and roll back all changes: he must make it work. isn't it wasting more time on a dead, beaten and buried horse? other frames need buffs and Qol improvement.

Zephyr rework is mediocre, Titania, nezha, Wukong and others have been forgotten since release... Ember #4 rework didn't solve her wiping maps in low level content, were she hit 5 enemies at a time, while Equinox murdered everyone in range with no upper limit, and removed her CC in higher content, were she had to use an augment for something that Equinox day form's maim does innately: stunning enemies in range... Banshe's Resonating Quacke rework is a mess as well, it solved her serious lack of range on her ult and stunlocked enemies for the rest of the squad to kill, only thing needed to rein it back in line was removing the doubling of damage!

- Sanctuary Onslaught... the base idea is neat, implementation is a flaming mess, DE need to decide if they want a limitless duration mode with infinite scaling and the actual survival capability or cheesiness of players to matter in prolonging their stay, or a closed timeframe mode like a time attack slaughter with a finite tame to reach as far as possible...

Current Onslaught is neiter: efficency and bad spawns kill the progression outside of players control, leading to massive frustration...

DE rebalancing NERFING frames based on this gamemode is a bestiality and a needlesly antagonistic stance, since they could much more simply do the same they did with conclave: don't admit certain frames to the mode - recalibrating frame abilities to conform to a certain standard that doesn't breack an anomalus game mode is a bad idea, spawn intensity, map and emey types are heavily distorted from starchart norm, thing that work or are overeffective in Elite Sanctuary Onslaught will not work in normal starchart and viceversa.

Sanctuary onslaught shouldn't be considered as a benchmark for tuning frame abilites

Symaris behaviour with arbitrary abilities timeouts for Elite onslaught is counterintuitive and shortsighted, powers spam limitation should be applied to regular Onslaught, were it would make much more sense, and removed from Elite.

TL:Dr this whole season of updates and "reworks" had been a sore delusion, at least most of the systemic repairs done to the game itself have been more beneficial, but most new or reworked content has proved disappointing. The Sacrifice now has a lot riding on it, potential for backlash if it isn't on par to The Second Dream or better is high...

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Toggle Sprint Onslaught bug:

Been doing lots of solo Elite Onslaught to the end of Zone 8. I noticed that when I "toggle sprint" to keep sprint always active, it becomes disabled when I jump through the portals to the next zones. So I have to "toggle sprint" on in each new zone, 8 times in 20 mins.

Please change it to let "toggle sprint" be always enabled in all Zones of Onslaught if it's turned on. Thank you. 

:satisfied:

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Could modify the Elite Sanctuary Onslaught tile order generator a bit, so that factions of following tiles are not the same?

Reason: In my opinion, and with my playstyle, Grineer units have the fastest time to kill. Bombards, and all the units with projectile based guns tear through my shields and health very quickly (note: I solo Elite Sanctuary Onslaught for focus farm, and I'm the only target all enemy units on the tile have). Now I usually don't have a problem with this, after all I can just jump out of the way. However I need to focus a lot for this, and having multiple Grineer tiles to transition to, one after another, becomes tiring and nags on my concentration.

I inevitably will make mistakes when my concentration worsens (because I'm human, I can guarantee you this 100%), and therefore it would be nice to have in between the demanding Grineer tiles 2 minutes and 30 seconds of  another faction, like Infested, that are easier to deal with than the Grineer.

 

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On 2018-05-29 at 2:36 AM, Camato said:

On the focus you are not quite correct. As a DPS frame you get around 60k focus till wave 8 without a booster.

Running Adaro gives you around 40-50k Focus, since you never be able to get a perfect run. 150k per run is with booster and nearly perfect affinity orb spawns.

This gets alot of people confused, since its mostly never mentioned. So if you want to farm focus the "lazy" way, you go EOS with a equinox. Less effort and you may get some good rad relics (lol)

Your weapons are also lvl 30 if you dont run the full setup. leveling your rifle and a sidearm as example gets both on 30, if you dont bring a melee weapon with you. (for those who dont know, you split 100% of your experience you get between your equiment, 25% for each.)

This goes for EOS tho, i dont know if its possible in SO, but i assume if you have khora already you dont run it, since there are no noticable rewards, wich are another problem, but covered more than once in this thread.

Guessing you did not clearly read my post.  I agree with your comments above except for one major point you missed.  In the same 8 rounds you run for 60K it takes roughly 30 minutes.  Adaro at 40K-50K in 5-7 minutes allows for a far greater focus farm in the same time period.

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Cant believe this mode exist after draco thing. No one saw that coming or is just that the xp is not a problem anymore? Find a good team on public is impossible.

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I've tried out Sanctuary Onslaught recently and have found some issues, which go from minor to major.
Firstly, the time between the end of a round and the spawn of the conduit should really be reduced, since waiting for two minutes just to have one conduit spawn is too far of a stretch to be anywhere near acceptable wait time (it basically doubles the time that mode takes)

Secondly, the mode has no rewards other than the rotation rewards, so having the peculiar mods in it feels to me, as a player insulting, especially paired with the two minutes wait time between the stages. I think that the mods could stay, if they were an additional reward that may drop alongside relics or other rewards, but not as something that is supposed to be an actual "reward". In that regard, the whole concept feels weird to me, as having a useless mod is not something that should be part of the game.

Thirdly, Khora's and the Vandal weapons droprates could use some adjustment, as again, the waittime between the conduits is so long, that without it, one could play two rounds of it instead of only one.

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Khora and the Vandal drop rates need to be drastically increased. This mode both takes too long, and is too janky (bad spawns, poor tile choices, host migrations sending you back to orbiter, efficiency drain existing, etc) for how long it expects you to grind it. The fact that enemies have no drops at all just makes it all the more unrewarding.

Small rant time: There is just no fun to be had in this mode. In order to combat the asinine drain, you need to have specific loadouts that either match the current meta, or count as "cheese" anywhere else in the game. It's too limiting. Too boring. Then it gives you endo for it.

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From the bit of onslaught that i messed with, these are the things that i think are in the most need of some fine-tuning.  It is worth noting that all of these points do tie in with each other, as fixing one things may help resolve another.

Maps : There are many maps that realllyy need some adjustments to their enemy spawns, and several overly large maps that i think should just be straight up removed from onslaught.  As it is currently, there is a huge inconsistency to the enemy spawn rate, which can drastically affect your ability to maintain efficiency.  There are a very select few number of maps that are insanely good for onslaught, namely the circular void room with the tree in the middle, where I have little to no trouble with getting my efficiency back to 100% in that room without even grabbing the stimulus, yet other rooms can have such poor spawns that it can cost you your run.       

Efficiency  : the rate at which efficiency both decreases and increases is a major source of many problems with this mode.  As it currently functions, it drains far too quickly to run without very specific builds.  As much as DE likes to try and mix up the meta, the way onslaught is currently only encourages it because its the most reliable way to make any  sort of progress.  Either this mechanic needs to change entirely, be adjusted so that its easier to maintain (which fixing map spawns can help), and/or making stimulus affect the rate at which you gain efficiency in addition to the boost it gives.  

Limited Playstyle: This ties heavily into the Efficiency issue, in that currently, this mode is really only geared towards Frames / Builds that can kill things very quickly in a wide area.  The reason for that is, there are only a select few frames that are highly efficient at doing just that at high levels.  Not all frames are designed to kill, and killing enemies with weapons alone would simply not be fast enough to make it to Zone 8 and higher, so these frames won't ever really see any use in this mode until something gets changed.  One potential way to help this problem, is to provide more ways to gain efficiency.   For frames geared around Crowd Control, enemies that are under the effect of CC abilities could give efficiency, support frames could benefit from gaining efficiency from buffing/healing themselves and their teammates.  Maybe you could even gain a buff to the efficiency gain rate if you go X amount of time without getting hit.  Bottom line being, that if DE wants to break these metas, they have to provide ways for ALL types of frames to be able to effectively contribute to the team, not just the ones that are the best at cheesing the mode.

                                                               

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On 2018-06-11 at 9:48 PM, Sin1989 said:

From the bit of onslaught that i messed with, these are the things that i think are in the most need of some fine-tuning.  It is worth noting that all of these points do tie in with each other, as fixing one things may help resolve another.                     

This, you're right. I've recently tried to do sanctuary onslaught without cheesing : using DPS mirage with lenz, and having squad of one more DPS, and 2 EVs, we barely managed to reach zone 8 of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught.

Please, DE, decrease the difficulty so ESO will stop looking like another version of Bere :tired:

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That would be welcomed if Vandal parts could have better drop rates. While my twin got very super lucky by getting everything almost 2 or 3 times.

I only got Braton barrel and its receiver. I lost the count of how many hours I wasted in that. everything else I got was given to me by lucky twin. and I still need Lato BP

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Is it only me or Sanctuary is unplayable again since the Sacrifice update?

I mean....the host migration crashes are back folks :S Can you fix it?

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getting host migration errors again since sacrifice update..... 

after doing it to forma exhalted blade i've lost all progression again due to not being able to migrate hosts.

hope this gets sorted 

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It's been a while now and the gamemode still is terrible. If your group breaks up tp early and you don't have your lame ultra-nuker equipped you wont make it to zone 8 on your own. If the game even allows you to continue at all, got tired of counting failed host migrations literally wasting my time. Coupled with an insult of a drop chance for the parts you want this is definetly the worst experience I had in the game, now even beating the defection event... keep your frame if you don't want us to earn it for playing I wont be bullied into spending money on it.

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2 hours ago, W3zeer said:

It's been a while now and the gamemode still is terrible. If your group breaks up tp early and you don't have your lame ultra-nuker equipped you wont make it to zone 8 on your own. If the game even allows you to continue at all, got tired of counting failed host migrations literally wasting my time. Coupled with an insult of a drop chance for the parts you want this is definetly the worst experience I had in the game, now even beating the defection event... keep your frame if you don't want us to earn it for playing I wont be bullied into spending money on it.

I feel you on the getting to rotation C solo! The mode seems to be very much aimed at full teams of what some might call 'meta' builds than scaled for solo with increased numbers for Co-op. I would love to see a DE member during primetime or devstream - though Tennocon could count as well - run Sanctuary Onslaught both modes while avoiding warframes, mods, and weapons considered 'meta' and get to rotation C without devtool aide solo. Might help with establishing the mode as being stable if it is capable of succeeding to a 'bit sized' amount of gameplay.

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F*** this. No, really, f*** it to the deepest pits of hell. Trying to get Khora the "fair" way is such a joke. A bad one at that.

Abysmal rotation C drop rates make sure you don't feel any sense of progression. But hey, random relic #54 is waiting for you and afterwards you're welcome to return for another 20 minutes of mind numbing contemplation on why the heck you haven't just bought Khora with plat while sluggishly tapering across the middle of a changing room spamming an aoe to kill everything over and over and over again. I'm now on what, probably run 30-50 with no traces of any rotation C parts?

Well how about bringing something else to mix it up? You know, drink a different flavor of vomit from time to time. Yeah right... How about having an overkill of nukes flying everywhere all the time until you finally pick something else only to suddenly have a team of no nukers that all leave before zone 5? That sounds more like it. Eerily reminds me of what just happened moments ago when I picked umbra to chill with exalted blade. And what do you know, just like the run before where I was so bored I by mistake went to zone 9 and got infinite host migration, I was sent to stare at my flying little ship yet again with the promise of losing all focus and other "rewards". Needless to say the creation of this steaming pile of dung begun the very next minute.

This is all coming from a player who has leveled every other non-prime warframe to 30 without EVER spending platinum on even a single one of them. And here I am, tempted to buy Khora and never touch sanctuary onslaught again. But that's exactly what you want, isn't it? Make people spend platinum not because they feel like supporting the game out of joy, but to finally put an end to their disgusting misery. Negative reinforcement over positive reinforcement. Sure to bring in good karma. Unfortunately I would feel really dirty to cave in here, so I guess I won't be getting Khora anytime soon.

Most people believe you're better than this. You've mostly built up a reputation of listening to the community and playing fair during times filled to the brim with greed driven game development. This is what made you rise. This is what made you shine. You have walked on the edge a few times before and even had to change some drop rates that caused anger in the community, but this time it really stands out (unless I'm forgetting something). It's been a good while and nothing has happened. Captura scenes are still spammed to us as useless rewards. Khora drop rates are still down the toilet. Some people thought Nidus was tedious to farm. Well guess what, with Nidus you're expected to be done after 12-13 runs. With Khora it's 26-27 runs. This is only the case if nothing goes wrong. With sanctuary onslaught being what is it, you probably know by now something IS going to go wrong. Multiple times.

I think that's just about everything I wanted to get off my chest. Even if it might sound harsh, it ultimately is nothing more than a bunch of facts and opinions based on said facts.

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Just lost over 200k focus due to a host migration. This has been an issue since Onslaught's release. I cannot BELIEVE nothing has been done about this, or in general, such as currencies and items being added to your inventory on PICKUP as a means of preventing this. Not even just for Onslaught, but for the entire game at this point. It's just felt even harder during Onslaught because literally every single run ends in failure and lost items and focus because of Host Migrations, crashes, getting stuck in white screens or loading screens, or what have you. This has been the experience since release, consistently.

It doesn't even matter if Khora parts dropped or didn't drop or if the drop rates were improved or even worse. You'll never get a Khora part anyway because you'll always lose all of your progress and items and focus regardless. This is such a waste of time and its been MONTHS now. By far, since release, the absolute worst experience I have ever had in a videogame ever.

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Le 17/06/2018 à 08:33, tester616 a dit :

F*** this. No, really, f*** it to the deepest pits of hell. Trying to get Khora the "fair" way is such a joke. A bad one at that.

Abysmal rotation C drop rates make sure you don't feel any sense of progression. But hey, random relic #54 is waiting for you and afterwards you're welcome to return for another 20 minutes of mind numbing contemplation on why the heck you haven't just bought Khora with plat while sluggishly tapering across the middle of a changing room spamming an aoe to kill everything over and over and over again. I'm now on what, probably run 30-50 with no traces of any rotation C parts?

Well how about bringing something else to mix it up? You know, drink a different flavor of vomit from time to time. Yeah right... How about having an overkill of nukes flying everywhere all the time until you finally pick something else only to suddenly have a team of no nukers that all leave before zone 5? That sounds more like it. Eerily reminds me of what just happened moments ago when I picked umbra to chill with exalted blade. And what do you know, just like the run before where I was so bored I by mistake went to zone 9 and got infinite host migration, I was sent to stare at my flying little ship yet again with the promise of losing all focus and other "rewards". Needless to say the creation of this steaming pile of dung begun the very next minute.

This is all coming from a player who has leveled every other non-prime warframe to 30 without EVER spending platinum on even a single one of them. And here I am, tempted to buy Khora and never touch sanctuary onslaught again. But that's exactly what you want, isn't it? Make people spend platinum not because they feel like supporting the game out of joy, but to finally put an end to their disgusting misery. Negative reinforcement over positive reinforcement. Sure to bring in good karma. Unfortunately I would feel really dirty to cave in here, so I guess I won't be getting Khora anytime soon.

Most people believe you're better than this. You've mostly built up a reputation of listening to the community and playing fair during times filled to the brim with greed driven game development. This is what made you rise. This is what made you shine. You have walked on the edge a few times before and even had to change some drop rates that caused anger in the community, but this time it really stands out (unless I'm forgetting something). It's been a good while and nothing has happened. Captura scenes are still spammed to us as useless rewards. Khora drop rates are still down the toilet. Some people thought Nidus was tedious to farm. Well guess what, with Nidus you're expected to be done after 12-13 runs. With Khora it's 26-27 runs. This is only the case if nothing goes wrong. With sanctuary onslaught being what is it, you probably know by now something IS going to go wrong. Multiple times.

I think that's just about everything I wanted to get off my chest. Even if it might sound harsh, it ultimately is nothing more than a bunch of facts and opinions based on said facts.

I agree with you. I already said it a million time but yeah Khora and Vandal parts drop rates are very low, not fair at all to ahve to make it to zone 8 (about 20 mins)
and only have a 5,64% drop rate for Khora BP and same drop rate for her system that is also in rotation C.And its even worst for Vandal parts.

It took me around 11 hours to get all Khora parts. and I lost count for Vandal parts which I would have only 3 parts so far, but super lucky brother got almost all of them 2 or 3 times. (I still cant get that Lato BP the last part i need).

So yes I feel your pain.

Personnally I think that they should rise drop rates or/and change rotation to every zone not every two zones. considering that a refined relic give 10% chance to get the rarest item and take much less time to do (even a not refined one give 2%...some vandal parts are 2,01% but takes up to 20 mins for zone 8

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13. of August

Doing at least 4 Runs of ESO solo till wave 10 (for focus) on a Daylie basis and i am STILL missing at least 3 parts for the completion of the lato and the braton vandal.

There are STILL bad tiles where even Saryn the arguably most broken warframe for onslaught (my personal opinion) struggles to keep the efficiency up.

Yeah some days i dont do onslaught cause its tiring, boring and frustrating as #*!%.

And HELL NO i will NEVER do onslaught again on public this whole bitesize bullS#&$  where people leave at wave 3!! is beyond ridiculous, getting host migrations that STILL #*!% up your focus counter AND efficiency counter is just bullS#&$ design.

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