[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: New Weapons Feedback Megathread

[[DE]Danielle]

[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: New Weapons Feedback Megathread

Beasts of the Sanctuary is live on PC! We will be using this thread to home all of your feedback on the newest Weapons and Zaw Parts released:

Spoiler

NEW WEAPONS!

HYSTRIX: Fire, ice, electricity, or poison: choose an element and launch a flurry deadly quills. This versatile sidearm is Khora’s signature weapon. 
*Guaranteed Elemental Status Effect on each hit, in addition to Status Effects from the weapon's Status Chance.
 

DUAL KERES: Tear through any target with these vicious, claw-like blades. The signature swords of Khora.
 

VELDT: Precise calibration, rapid trigger-pull and a steady hand all combine to bring down the hardiest prey on two legs or four.


NEW ZAW PARTS!

SEPFAHN: A balanced Zaw Strike for Nikana and Staff weapons. A steady blade for steady hands.

RABVEE: A heavy Zaw Strike for Machete and Hammer weapons. Measure twice, strike once... heavily.

DOKRAHM: A light Zaw Strike for Scythe or Hammer weapons. Lightweight, for flash and bite.

SHTUNG: A two-handed Zaw Grip for measured strikes and greater impact.

KORB: A one-handed Zaw Grip for measured strikes and greater impact.

 

We encourage you to play with the new Weapons and Zaw Parts before providing feedback. Please be constructive and detailed to the best of your ability, thank you!

If you came across a bug in the Beasts of the Sanctuary update you'd like to report, please visit our Beasts of the Sanctuary Bug Report Megathread.

[Knight_Ex]

Awesome, will try when home from work

[Heliozzenn]

Thanks! they look awesome

[MrTitan123]

@[DE]Danielle Not trying to be rude here, but I think it would be a good idea to put the weapon stats up there. Kinda hard to judge a weapon without its base stats to look at.

[Ventura_Highway]

The Hystrix's stats in the marketplace imply there is no elemental damage associated with each alt fire. Can someone test whether or not this is supposed to be the case?

I am sorry that this does not strictly qualify as feedback.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Ventura_Highway

[MrTitan123]

Just now, Ventura_Highway said:

The Hystrix's stats in the marketplace imply there is no elemental damage associated with each alt fire. Can someone test whether or not this is supposed to be the case?

Each fire mode has guaranteed proc chance for each individual element. The listed status chance takes your mods into accout.

[Ventura_Highway]

2 minutes ago, MrTitan123 said:

Each fire mode has guaranteed proc chance for each individual element. The listed status chance takes your mods into accout.

I'm aware but I feel that would somewhat imply the presence of the associated elemental damage with its fire mode. It's not a deal breaker but I was hoping to do some cheeky things with how base elemental damage interacts with mods. Or at least how I think it does.

[Knight_Ex]

DPS Trinity is gonna rule Sanctuary lol

[LSG501]

First thing I noticed when grabbing blueprints....hysterix needs viper + bolto, bolto needs lato.... talk about excessive weapons needing to be bought/crafted if we haven't already got it just sitting there (unlikely due to them being low level weapons)

[Knight_Ex]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

First thing I noticed when grabbing blueprints....hysterix needs viper + bolto, bolto needs lato.... talk about excessive weapons needing to be bought/crafted if we haven't already got it just sitting there (unlikely due to them being low level weapons)

Ha Speak for yourself, after other weapons I keep 1-2 of low level junk weapons handy in my foundary :P

[MrTitan123]

18 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I'm aware but I feel that would somewhat imply the presence of the associated elemental damage with its fire mode. It's not a deal breaker but I was hoping to do some cheeky things with how base elemental damage interacts with mods. Or at least how I think it does.

Oooh....I see where you’re getting at. Getting the base element to fuse with the mods? I would hope that it doesn’t so the proc would remain an entirely separate effect.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I don’t have the update yet, but from what I’ve been watching, hearing, and reading about the Hystrix it could be a sidegrade/upgrade to the Acrid if you use it for Toxin depending on how you use it. I’m kinda intrigued on how it’ll perform with guaranteed Toxin procs even with that base 6% Status Chance being a detriment.

edit: My Saryn will be a happy girl.

Edited April 20, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Heryin]

There seems to be a problem with conduits. When they're spawning, my game either freezes or FPS drop down to 20. Friends are experiencing same freezes, they keep crashing when the wave ends.

PC specs:
Intel Pentium G4560
Zotac GTX 1060 6GB (mini)
8GB RAM

Overall, the game mode is great!

Edited April 20, 2018 by HeryinPrime

[Fallen_Echo]

I love how the Hystrix works, its a really nice gun and i already dumped in a forma on it.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

It would appear Veldt is not a sniper rifle.

...just why? The last time there was a new sniper added was in 2016, it's got variable zoom as a gimmick, but that's about it.

It could even be unique kind of special! A sniper rifle without a scope! Something!

...It's just another semi-auto with decent stats, shame.

Edited April 24, 2018 by JuicyButthurt

[Xakama]

Haven't tried them out yet, but those Dual Keres stats look insane. Can someone confirm whether that's the best combination of crit stats we have in the game at the moment?

I'd love to have an actually decent dual swords weapon.

[Maganar]

So I don't want to be this guy, but I'm going to be this guy.  I'm going to be the guy that writes a large wall of text that is going to come across like a Debbie Downer unless I try to be polite to the point of insincerity, and I just don't play that sort of game of grinning through gritted teeth.

1) Release ordering

Why for the love of all that is good and true in this world do we receive new Zaw parts very shortly after Plaguestar has gone away after it's first return to the Plains?  Just to mess with us so that we can realize we bought all the wrong spare Plague Zaw parts?  Just to keep up us grinding ad infinitum as we keep planning our Zaw part purchases poorly, building with what we have on hand at the time, then only later get to try and actually build what we always wanted in the first place when the parts have finally become available again?

You have to realize that in releasing the Plague Zaw parts, you were not releasing an ordinary special weapon the way you have for previous events.  Because the parts can be mixed and matched with ones that are permanently available, it isn't just a case of "Oh I don't have the mastery for that, hope the item comes back soon," but rather "I don't want to use this new item that is available because I need the parts that aren't available" and that's just obnoxious.  When bringing back Plaguestar and releasing new permanent Zaw parts, could you please just plan the release order to minimize that type of frustration?

Moving on...

2) Sepfahn Balancing

Sepfahn is terribly undertuned.  I'm still building it because I want a Plague Bokwin for the Heavy Blade strike (glad I loaded up on three Plague Akwin, right?) and the Hammer strike is so downright hideous it will be the first Zaw I build, gild, remaster and instantly donate simply because it is so ugly (and there are plenty other suitably deadly weapons in the game) that I can't be bothered to use it.  Regardless, did you even make an effort to compare Sepfahn against existing weapons in the game?

In order to reach the speed of Nikana Prime, you need to drop damage to 2/3 that of Nikana Prime.  In order to reach the damage of Nikana Prime, you have to drop the speed from Nikana Prime's 1.08 down to 0.783 which is suffering itself for a weapon class that has always been associated with speed.  And the real kicker?  If you use only speed/damage modifying links, you will notice that the status and crit are exactly the same as Nikana Prime in all of these cases I have described.  It is literally a Nikana Prime with 2/3 the DPS of that existing weapon.

Now.  I'm not normally inclined to ask for power creep.  But when you released Zaws, you set a precedent that Zaws were generally more powerful than anything in their class.  Just now, you've released a Zaw with 2/3 the DPS of an otherwise identical weapon that already exists in the game.  There still is a reason to build it (being able to skew status and crit with the appropriate links to make a dream Nikana - which is what I am doing because I want to do that... but it will be one comparatively weaker than existing ones...), but it still stands out glaringly as a Zaw strike that is painfully weaker than all other Zaw strikes.

In short: All other Zaws > base melee weapons of their classes > Sepfahn.  For the sake of consistency and the love of Nikana enthusiasts, please bring up the damage of Sepfahn to be comparable to base Nikanas, at least.  It stands out far too much by being two levels below the power of other Zaws.

Moving on... Did you think I was done with Zaws?

3) Ultra-Slow Grip Releases, why?

I won't say anything about how hideous the hammer strike is beyond what I have already about how I'm tossing it as soon as I get MR since I suppose that could be chalked up to personal taste (though if such a thing exists as an objectively hideous object, I would swear that this is it).  Instead, I'll just ask why, of all conceivable things that could be done in this world, was it deemed necessary to create even slower grips than Kwath and Kroostra... I suppose I am biased here because I despise slow melee weapons or ones which have to ramp up to reasonable speed through Berserker on crit builds, but if we are going to start exploring such extreme ends of the speed/damage stat spectrum, at least give people like myself some faster grips to try out.  Will the damage be abysmally low at that point?  Maybe.  But at least I won't have to stare at progressively slower and slower grip options with no options toward the faster end when I believe I have used Kwath exactly once and Kroostra never in around a dozen Zaws built.  Then again, I don't think I've used Peye once either because it start to get SO fast and reduces damage significantly as the cost that I fear my fingers would break from mashing the E key that fast.  Once again - another sign that we're exploring ends of the spectrum that go beyond the realm of reason.

Personally, though, I don't see why we're even releasing grips anyway.  Don't we have enough freedom with the existing grips and links?  Isn't it more important to focus on releasing strikes so we can continue to try out and build different weapon classes, customized to our preferences in speed/damage and status/crit balance?  Since grips and links have some overlap in what they do already by customizing Zaws, the number of stat combinations is already enormous and has reached a point where incremental steps up and down along the speed/damage and status/crit spectra are barely perceptible to the user.  So... maybe you should have spent more time ensuring Sepfahn was balanced instead of giving us a pair of grips that are so hilariously slow they pretty much require a Berserker crit build to use (gee, as if crit wasn't already the meta anyway, and doubly so for melee because of Blood Rush...)?  Yes, I am tired of releases that cater to people who prioritize crit over all else; can you tell?

Moving on... Certainly I'm done with Zaws by now, right?

4) Scythe Zaws (Aka OHWHYGODNONOTTHISAGAIN)

I was one of the people who argued against changing Plague Keewar to Machete when that little scandal blew, because I found it profoundly unacceptable to change the entire class of a weapon after its release and allowing everyone to play with it only to suddenly find it uses a completely different set of stances that morph it into an entirely new identity.  You listened, DE, and I was grateful for that.  However, I thought you'd at least remember why you tried to pull that stunt, which was a good reason even if the bait-and-switch was inconsiderate.  You designed Plague Keewar with one-handed grips to look like the Kama, which uses Machete animations and works with them.  When you use that same object with scythe animations, it breaks everything in half.  That is what you tried to fix by changing it post-release - what you eventually deemed you couldn't fix because the community backlash from the surprise-swap was too great.

...So imagine my surprise when I looked at that new scythe grip and saw it becomes a scythe when using one-handed grips that give it roughly the same size and shape as Kama and scythe-form Plague Keewar.  What were you thinking?

At least with Plague Keewar, the so-called "baby scythe" was a novelty thing people built for amusement using a very particular combination with an event part.  But now you are introducing scythes into the mainstream permanently-available Zaw possibilities and I can tell even without building it that all the animations are going to be tragically broken beyond belief.  This.  Makes.  No.  Sense.

5) Potential Solutions, Constructive Advice

Leaving all my initial suggestions up here in strike-through so they can be seen for reference, but I prefer the suggestion of Azamagon in another post further down after seeing it.  Read it for details, please.  (It boils down to slotting stances to decide weapon class in the style of Dark-Split Sword and it gives everyone the chance to have what they want.)

If you really, really, REALLY wanted to release a new grip, since you seemed insistent on doing so with these two ultra-slow ones, why didn't you consider creating a new mid-length grip which could be used with something like the new scythe strike to build scythes, and then actually make the one-handed short-length grip into Machete like you tried to do (post-release, which is unacceptable and I will stand firm on that) with Plague Keewar?  Why would you just say "Well we had to settle for less on Plague Keewar because the community reacted negatively when we tried to pull the rug out from under their noses, but obviously the reason for the negative reaction wasn't the inconsiderate bait-and-switch but because the community must just love completely broken animations which assault the eyes and cause headaches.  Let's give them more of that!"  Why would you think that? 

Again, you are making positively no sense at all.  You could have killed two Zephyrs with one Atlas (I'm trying to create a moment of levity in a post which is going to sound angry no matter how I try to write it...) by releasing some new Zaw grips like you wanted and also giving us more scythe Zaws with functional animations by just creating a mid-length grip, but, no, instead let's make broken animations the norm.

As a suggestion, this would be a very, very, VERY good time to start thinking of releasing a new Scythe stance just as you once did with Machetes in the form of Cyclone Kraken.  Everyone said Machetes were irredeemably bad until Cyclone Kraken just because of their stance, and now with Zaws especially people have come to use and like them.  This would be a great time to think about a new Scythe stance: one that is perhaps able to avoid breaking the Zaw scythes while still not looking totally derp-tastic on normal Scythes - a tall order, but one you've pretty much set yourself up with thanks to these latest choices of yours.  Ideally, it should match the Zaw stance polarity.  People have been complaining that the existing Scythe stances hobble their effectiveness just as Sundering Cleave was a problem for Machetes.  Maybe this time you can kill two Zephyrs with one Atlas and clean up part of this mess.

All I know is that both times you have released new Zaw content to date (excluding the initial release which was oddly smooth as silk despite the overall bugginess of the Plains of Eidolon patch), I have found myself wanting to tear out my hair at what seem like glaring design oversights which are obvious to me at a glance and which somehow eluded your entire design teams.  This patch - Beasts of Sanctuary - was already a giant one in terms of adding new stuff (warframe; game mode; means of acquiring Lato Vandal, Braton Vandal, and Supra Vandal now from Baro, Captura scenes, first-ever way to get pre-Radiant relics, three weapons... this was a serious addition to the game).  If you need more time to work on stuff like Zaws, then you can afford to slow down and pace yourself on the releases more instead of rushing out all this content.  This game is very frequently updated as it is, and the stuff in this ONE patch could have easily been spread out over two or even three.  If you need the time, take it.  And let me tell you - based on how you've handled Zaws? - you need the extra time.

Now, on a positive and productive note, let me say I look forward to trying out the new game mode and the rest of this patch.  It should be fun, and if the rest of this update is as well-oiled as your ordinary ones (ignoring the hard-to-catch bugs that cause some to call this Bugframe), I should have a blast.  The Zaws were just the first thing I looked at and I was aghast to see how you haven't learned from the Plaguestar Zaw fiasco and have instead released an even more troublesome wave of Zaw parts.  Please, when releasing modular components, think carefully about how you are doing it.  There is so much potential to botch the Zaw system, as we have seen from Plaguestar and now this wave of Zaw parts.  I wish you the best of luck in anything you can do to address these concerns.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Maganar

[DarcnyssWolfe]

2 hours ago, JuicyButthurt said:

It would appear Veldt is not a sniper rifle.

...just why? The last time there was a new sniper added was in 2016, it's got variable zoom as a gimmick, but that's about it.

It could even be uniquekind of special! A sniper rifle without a scope! Something!

...It's just another semi-auto with decent stats, shame.

This is truely a shame, was so hoping for a rapid fire sniper to rack up that combo counter and let those bleed stacks scale endlessly. Really disappointed, been a long time since we got a new sniper.

[MirageKnight]

4 hours ago, JuicyButthurt said:

It would appear Veldt is not a sniper rifle.

Even with what is obviously a huge scope on top of it? Are you kidding me?

[Airwolfen]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Even with what is obviously a huge scope on top of it? Are you kidding me?

that's the barrel

[GreyEnneract]

I've put up with it long enough.The pre-built "scythes" were already small and insulting enough.
But these? Who designed these? Have they played any other game with a Scythe in it?
https://imgur.com/a/hJIrG5k

[MirageKnight]

31 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

that's the barrel

You're saying this part I outlined in magenta...is the barrel? Ingame?

Before you answer, I'm pretty sure that whoever originally designed the visual look of this weapon intended for that top part to be a spotting scope with massive zoom and for that bit underneath to be the actual barrel of the weapon. And that the designer was told "make us a cool looking sniper rifle". I've see real life guns with massive, long scopes like that.

But if that top bit functions as the gun's barrel ingame....SMH.

Then again, this the same studio that can't get a Khopesh right and then turn around and defend their mistake with an "artistic licence" comment, so I'm not at all surprised.

Also - another semi-auto rifle? *yawn*

Well at least it's 3k more XP for my Clan...

[W4cky]

The Hystrix

This weapon had me a bit excited but after using it and trying a few things...a missed opportunity.  The sadness here is that I can't equip just one elemental mod and say have it on poison dart mode to proc corrosive or maybe radiation with heat.  You get the idea.  Honestly would have become my new favorite if this was the case because it would be a more "realistic" approach to modding weapons?  Unsure if I'm saying that right but the interaction would have been awesome I guess to put it another way.

The design is great overall, love how it reminds me of the needler from Halo. 

A fairly short magazine and reload is a slight too long but damage is okay otherwise.   If the first point was true, I could have more freedom to add something else like primed slip mag along with quickdraw.  As it stands currently, I probably won't finish maxing it out with forma.  It also leads into the larger issue of almost every single secondary is modded the same way.  Hornet strike, barrel diffusion, lethal torrent, crit mods, elemental combo, and then you have your one free slot.  With the Hystrix it would have been 2 free slots.  

I would really like to see this be changed but I understand it may be kind of hard to code that in.  Anyway thanks for this update!

Edited April 20, 2018 by W4cky

[EscoPvP]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb W4cky:

The Hystrix

This weapon had me a bit excited but after using it and trying a few things...a missed opportunity.  The sadness here is that I can't equip just one elemental mod and say have it on poison dart mode to proc corrosive or maybe radiation with heat.  You get the idea.  Honestly would have become my new favorite if this was the case because it would be a more "realistic" approach to modding weapons?  Unsure if I'm saying that right but the interaction would have been awesome I guess to put it another way.

The design is great overall, love how it reminds me of the needler from Halo. 

A fairly short magazine and reload is a slight too long but damage is okay otherwise.   If the first point was true, I could have more freedom to add something else like primed slip mag along with quickdraw.  As it stands currently, I probably won't finish maxing it out with forma.  It also leads into the larger issue of almost every single secondary is modded the same way.  Hornet strike, barrel diffusion, lethal torrent, crit mods, elemental combo, and then you have your one free slot.  With the Hystrix it would have been 2 free slots.  

I would really like to see this be changed but I understand it may be kind of hard to code that in.  Anyway thanks for this update!

exactly what i thought the mechanic would be to switch between the elemental darts and get the new elemental combination

i tested around and the build in "forced" elemental proc kinda *** - i tested 4 dual stats and obv multishot mods
you just can proc your status put on the weapon if you fire at least 2 projectiles
how does it feel : every 15th hit is a impact/puncture proc
every 50th hit is a status you put onto the weapon
every other is the forced single element - but why should i use this weapon (except against corpus with pure poison dmg) when building for status doesn't even work properly ?

[Airwolfen]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

You're saying this part I outlined in magenta...is the barrel? Ingame?

Before you answer, I'm pretty sure that whoever originally designed the visual look of this weapon intended for that top part to be a spotting scope with massive zoom and for that bit underneath to be the actual barrel of the weapon. And that the designer was told "make us a cool looking sniper rifle". I've see real life guns with massive, long scopes like that.

But if that top bit functions as the gun's barrel ingame....SMH.

Then again, this the same studio that can't get a Khopesh right and then turn around and defend their mistake with an "artistic licence" comment, so I'm not at all surprised.

Also - another semi-auto rifle? *yawn*

Well at least it's 3k more XP for my Clan...

Yup. that is the barrel. and at least the front of the weapon was designed with that in mind.

so if such a thing were true then they still made a large edit to it.