These Are Not Scythes

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

42 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

already*
We've seen the proposed changes, if this design is final and not a work-in-progress they've already* failed.

U an English teacher?

[Gandergear]

22 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

already*
We've seen the proposed changes, if this design is final and not a work-in-progress they've already* failed.

You may not like it, but this is what peak Scythe performance looks like

Bad memes aside scythes don't really need to be larger than heavy blades, as anything bigger would just make them as big of a problem as any other spin2win weapon (Not that I personally have anything against more options 2 spin 2 win)

Edited April 25, 2018 by Gandergear

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, Gandergear said:

You may not like it, but this is what peak Scythe performance looks like

Scythes don't really need to be larger than heavy blades, as anything bigger would just make them as big of a problem as any other spin2win weapon (Not that I personally have anything against more options 2 spin 2 win)

They don't need to be larger, they just need to be the same length with the blade matching the handle's scale with its own width and length. 
Considering that a few heavy blades  such as the War and Galatine are already so large that they clip through the ground, it shouldn't be an issue.
That ridiculous can opener you just posted is bigger than both based off of the body's scale lmao. The front blades alone are half of that guy's body or more.
Not sure what game that's from though. Looks like RS.

[VampirePirate]

Why did they not make them into axes?  They look more like axes anyway.  Not machetes and not one-handed scythes.

Edited April 25, 2018 by VampirePirate

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Need grim reaper style scythes

[Zeranov]

Hmm. I played Dark Souls and Bloodbourne, watched a bit of RWBY and I think those are the things that the scythe enthusiasts are expecting when a game is offering a scythe as a weapon.

True, Warframe does not scratch that itch. Because what we have are sickles or something between them and scythes. Even weapons like the Ether Reaper are still too small compared to the Burial Blade. But I don't know if upscaling and changing to a two-handed heavy blade stance will fix the underlying issue that DE from the beginning had another picture of combat scythes in their mind than most of their players.

But I hope they aren't killing the scythe stance altogether. I recently played a few missions with the Ether Reaper and it was quite fun. The animations were fluid and the combat flowed nicely through the Infested. It would be a shame to lose this niche for another heavy blade. Sure it's no fighting and reaping like in other games, but I think it works for Warframe and it's working quite well. Atleast for the "larger" scythe weapons.

[Gandergear]

On 4/25/2018 at 12:14 AM, GreyEnneract said:

Looks like RS.

Correct

[ShiraHagane]

Is this the part where I point out that war scythe blades are parallel to the haft, not perpendicular like farming scythes?

[Vulture051]

23 hours ago, ShiraHagane said:

Is this the part where I point out that war scythe blades are parallel to the haft, not perpendicular like farming scythes?

Sure. Right after you point out most of the heavy blades/hammers would be too heavy to wield, a rapier is all but worthless outside of a duel, claws are a ridiculous weapon, katanas are not used like western swords, only the machetes with "machete" in their name are machetes, "glaives" don't exist outside of Naruto, blade-whips don't exist, gunblades don't exist outside of some weird museum pieces, tonfa are small striking weapons, whips don't have a sword on the end, Atterax isn't a whip by any definition, pretty much all zaws are stupid as a weapon, and space magic isn't real.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Vulture051

[ShiraHagane]

21 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

Sure. Right after you point out most of the heavy blades/hammers would be too heavy to wield, a rapier is all but worthless outside of a duel, claws are a ridiculous weapon, katanas are not used like western swords, only the machetes with "machete" in their name are machetes, "glaives" don't exist outside of Naruto, blade-whips don't exist, gunblades don't exist outside of some weird museum pieces, tonfa are small striking weapons, whips don't have a sword on the end, Atterax isn't a whip by any definition, pretty much all zaws are stupid as a weapon, and space magic isn't real.

I mean, all of your arguments are about realism outside of a video game, my point is that scythes as depicted in games are not only not realistic, but not even useful, as the only way you could actually cut anything is by pulling it closer to yourself, and they don't have enough weight or rigidity to be used as a pick.  I would use any other weapon class in real life (if I could lift it) but I would rather use a stick than a scythe.

[GreyEnneract]

On 2018-04-30 at 12:17 PM, ShiraHagane said:

Is this the part where I point out that war scythe blades are parallel to the haft, not perpendicular like farming scythes?

Considering that the thread isn't about war scythes, and that they haven't been brought up at all so far, I would say no.

[taiiat]

On 2018-04-21 at 6:43 PM, Maganar said:

The problem is a serious misunderstanding of earlier community feedback on DE's part.

actually i think it went exactly as desired - people liked being able to make smol Scythe. i do too, it's hilarious.
BUT, there absolutely should be other Zaw Scythes Players can create that are big/normal sized.

On 2018-04-21 at 8:49 PM, Maganar said:

To be honest, what bothers me most of all about the Dokrahm-Scythe option is... well, how the heck do you hold that?  Much less strike your enemies with it?  I mean, just look at how goofy it appears with the Peye in your first linked image in particular.  Yeesh.

well if we put aside smol Scythe for a moment, if you put it on like Seekala or something, then it'd look pretty much like a Scythe - Scythes aren't super practical Weapons of war either, even war Scythes after they started getting produced as Weapons were still a bit strange in practicality of wielding. and also looked suspiciously similar to a Polearm with a sharp edge on the end :p

honestly, there's quite a few types of 'things on the end of a stick' that ultimately look and would hold much like one another. that could be a good thing though, in the sense of letting the Scythe, Staff, and Polearm Strikes all be used to make Scythes as well as what they can make currently.
then like i mention above, you could make a big Scythe, or a smol Scythe. and even make both war Scythes and traditional ones.

discussing whether Players should be able to have Melee Weapons the size of an entire house can be sorted out some other time though.

On 2018-04-30 at 10:52 AM, Zeranov said:

But I hope they aren't killing the scythe stance altogether.

i feel like i'm one of the few that also feels that way - the existing Scythe Stances are 100% more appropriate for a Scythe than any of the Greatsword Stances are. Stalking Fan is already very thematically appropriate for what a Scythe is good at (wide sweeping arcs). just need more of that plus some of the other things Scythes are also great for (Headshot swings, pulling Enemies closer to you, Et Cetera) and the entire problem is solved.
(unrelated and probably not going to go over well as a metaphor - this is like the Girl Scouts thing. instead of improving what people think isn't doing what it should do, they want to move the Girl Scouts into the Boy Scouts? if you don't think your local girls Troop isn't educating the Girls on what you think is important for them to learn, why not participate and make it better? that's the actual solution... idk why people are looking to skirt around the source of their problems instead of addressing them, your guess is as good as mine mate)

 

making them compete in Stats with Greatswords is not helping them at all - neither is giving them Animations that are about slam style swings(since big Swords are used more like baseball bats than cutting edges), pokes, shoves... just things that don't represent what Scythes are good at and what they are depicted as in other games that people are drawing memory from anyways! D:<

Edited May 3, 2018 by taiiat

[Pizzarugi]

The game may not recognize it as such, but we do have scythes that actually look and function like they should.


Everything else is a sickle.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[GreyEnneract]

13 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

The game may not recognize it as such, but we do have scythes that actually look and function like they should.


Everything else is a sickle.

Well as stated before, you're more likely to stab yourself with this thing (or hang your clothes on it).
The handle length is only technically on point because they had to give the strike itself a handle on top of the actual grip.
While the blade's angle is once again: a meme, the height/width is too small, and the blade is a bit short.
That's why I said earlier that the only thing that's close enough is the Kaszas, before and after the Dokrahm was added.
As a side note, Scythe usage in every other medium usually doesn't have them spamming slams into the ground like with the in-game heavy blade stances.
I will say they got the range stat to be on-point though. Roughly 9 meters is nice.

[Mental_Omega]

On 2018-05-02 at 6:39 PM, ShiraHagane said:

I mean, all of your arguments are about realism outside of a video game, my point is that scythes as depicted in games are not only not realistic, but not even useful, as the only way you could actually cut anything is by pulling it closer to yourself, and they don't have enough weight or rigidity to be used as a pick.  I would use any other weapon class in real life (if I could lift it) but I would rather use a stick than a scythe.

The only reason why people use harvest scythes in visual fiction is because it looks really cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYW2GmHB5xs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFeXzyAXV0

 

And let's be honest "because it looks cool" applies to almost every melee weapon in the game.  

[Mental_Omega]

On 2018-05-02 at 6:39 PM, ShiraHagane said:

(Accidentally double posted whoops.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Mental_Omega

[Talonflight]

17 hours ago, Mental_Omega said:

The only reason why people use harvest scythes in visual fiction is because it looks really cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYW2GmHB5xs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFeXzyAXV0

 

And let's be honest "because it looks cool" applies to almost every melee weapon in the game.  

You are 100% right. The "Rule of Cool" is perhaps DE's best rule. 

On a side note though, did you notice that you  never see the two weapons actually collide in that King Arther video?

[Sasuda]

Maybe its about time sickles should be a separate weapon class from scythe. The Kama being a Machete has always seemed odd to me at least.

I also would much rather see scythes come into their own. While it's going to be a messy fix for the existing scythes it's not impossible.  A lot of giving players stuff for compensating the changes but I think it's probably necessary.

[GreyEnneract]

On 2018-05-04 at 7:00 PM, Talonflight said:

You are 100% right. The "Rule of Cool" is perhaps DE's best rule. 

Precisely.

[SneakyErvin]

Farming scythes as weapons are just stupid, except for the cool-factor tied to the Reaper or similar mythological beings.

There is really no practical use in their design that makes them viable as a weapon. You'd be better of with a stick since it doesnt have a pointless blad that might get stuck in things or cause the weapon weight to be unevenly distributed for combat purposes.

The only viable "farming" scythes I've seen in a game are some of those tied to the necromancer in D3 since they are more like a halbard/naginata.

[GreyEnneract]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Farming scythes as weapons are just stupid
There is really no practical use in their design that makes them viable as a weapon. You'd be better of with a stick since it doesnt have a pointless blad that might get stuck in things or cause the weapon weight to be unevenly distributed for combat purposes.

Literally everyone knows this already.
Even before the previous people in this thread posted the exact same thing as you, we knew.
It's a moot point for games and it always will be.
 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, GreyEnneract said:

Literally everyone knows this already.
Even before the previous people in this thread posted the exact same thing as you, we knew.
It's a moot point for games and it always will be.
 

And yet you need to repeat what I said yet another time without the full context?

Anyways, my point was more that while stupid, they can still be implemented the right way as I said with the D3 comparison. I think the stabby-hatchet versions we have has done a good job with it aswell. They arent bulky and there are weapons that are actually similar to them irl, like helmet-crushers with their long piercing beak-like design. The cetus scythes follow this "logic" theme due to the short haft making them some form of piercing option compared to a regular cutting or slashing hatchet or a blunt hammer.

Now dont get me wrong, I love the long scythes... in fantasy games where it kinda can feel appropriate (gods know I loved my sylvan valewalker). But the whole idea of a scythe feels so far fetched in a modern setting and even more so in a sci-fi futuristic setting.

[GreyEnneract]

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And yet you need to repeat what I said yet another time without the full context?

You are very confused, and slightly P.A.

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Now dont get me wrong, I love the long scythes... in fantasy games where it kinda can feel appropriate (gods know I loved my sylvan valewalker). But the whole idea of a scythe feels so far fetched in a modern setting and even more so in a sci-fi futuristic setting.

It's fine to hold that opinion, despite the fact that almost every melee in the game shows that it holds no water.
Disagreement is fine though, and I thank you for the thread bump :^)

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

On 2018-04-24 at 2:00 AM, GreyEnneract said:

already*
We've seen the proposed changes, if this design is final and not a work-in-progress they've already* failed.

Nerdgasm Explodes

 

Also That Excal Moneyshot.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

On 2018-04-24 at 7:49 AM, Naqel said:

The reason they were made the way they were, was the WICKED <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> COOL <redacted> <redacted> animation they had on the charge attack, which is now gone from the game AFAIK.

i remember when i first got my hate, and how cool the animations were... *sobs quietly*