Khora's Planned Changes

[Klokwerkaos]

3 hours ago, shinkido said:

while i dont have much to say in reguards to other cc abilities (except hydroid, hate dealing with the tentacles) khoras 4 is rather inifensive honestly. it dosent make everyone flop about wildly. it grabs them and just slowly drags them into position and hangs them there easy targets to be shot at swinging or no. if they are swingin then they are predictable and easy to shoot. if they are not, they are still targets and easy to shoot. i dont really see much of an issue there aside from the bodies lingering after death which is getting changed anyway.  its range could use a buff. in terms of CC, if they are in the dome, there is not much of a reason to use other cc on whats in the dome. just shoot it, or melee it.

comparing strangledome to hydroid. in terms of floping around hydroid is magnitudes worse yes but i would not say khoras 4 is another like that with how enemies move about, they are massivly easier to hit. 

so if strangledome should be removed because they move a little and because its another cc, then hydroid should have his 4 changed to be less obnoxious

to get to the heart of the matter, I'd rather she not be ANOTHER CC frame anyway, get her her own identity, do something with the notion of her being versatile or summoning or something else... just get rid of the whole power, it's annoying and it's just another swipe from another kit that makes her generic and annoying.  I get you don't find it as offensive as I do, but that aside it's not something that "benefits" the frame or makes it "unique" it's something that stands alone and is boring and generic.

 

Frankly I really wished they left her alone, her first kit was cool, this one is garbage.

 

[BoneMeowster]

6 hours ago, shinkido said:

if they did give khora the whip, why would you want it to NOT work with maim?? so what if others want to do that, "you" don't have to build that way if "you" don't like it. so why hope others wont get that option?

seems a bit selfish to me but i don't know your reasoning for wanting to limit others choice. so i'll leave it at that

Same reason people hate having to play with a Stasis Limbo.

Exalted Whip + Prime Reach + All the crit + maiming = Spin2Win META bonanza where you can't run any mission without seeing a Khora spamming a spin macro to finish every mission as fast as possible even if others are just enjoying themsleves. This is a Co-operative PVE experience, the expectation is to /not/ have to deal with people who just want their loot and don't particularly care about the rest of the game or it's players. The expectation is being able to play how you want with a group of people and not get shunted aside or shoehorned in to playing a certain way because of someone else's choice of equipment. Beyond that, being real here, does Warframe really need to be any more brainless in the endgame?

Just looking at this from a gameplay aspect, putting Exalted Whip in the game is already a poor idea based on what we already have in the Exalted Weapon Warframe category, what with Excal being the best melee, Mesa being a ranged murder machine, Valkyr being the only other 'viable' Exalted, Ivara's Artemis Bow being all but ignored for Prowl, and Wukong/Titania basically being memes... Where is there room for Exalted whip? It's got to be better than Exalted Blade to be picked over Exalted Blade or provide better tank than Hysteria to fill that niche and if it doesn't do either of them then she just gets overlooked because of the META anyway.

[shinkido]

15 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

to get to the heart of the matter, I'd rather she not be ANOTHER CC frame anyway, get her her own identity, do something with the notion of her being versatile or summoning or something else... just get rid of the whole power, it's annoying and it's just another swipe from another kit that makes her generic and annoying.  I get you don't find it as offensive as I do, but that aside it's not something that "benefits" the frame or makes it "unique" it's something that stands alone and is boring and generic.

 

Frankly I really wished they left her alone, her first kit was cool, this one is garbage.

 

you dont have to provide this at all but what do you mean by her first kit? the current state before changes? or are you refering to exalted whip? i dont know this so im simply asking but otherwise get what you mean

[Neptlude]

4 minutes ago, shinkido said:

you dont have to provide this at all but what do you mean by her first kit? the current state before changes? or are you refering to exalted whip? i dont know this so im simply asking but otherwise get what you mean

yes 1st kit had salted whip...

I personally loving Strangle dome now, I was a big fan of the salted whip before tho... 

In the ambulas sortie the strangle dome won us that game. Sure we had a limbo but that player only made it harder.... It ended up my Khora carrying the team...

[Laiyenu_Rae]

I love the amount of people in this thread using Maiming strike as the defense against Exalted whip.

People know exalted weapons cannot use Maiming strike right?

If they wanted her to still be a cc frame the exalted whip could be all about status and have its own combo (like hysteria) that ties up enemies.

 

[shinkido]

6 minutes ago, CatOfTechnology said:

Same reason people hate having to play with a Stasis Limbo.

Exalted Whip + Prime Reach + All the crit + maiming = Spin2Win META bonanza where you can't run any mission without seeing a Khora spamming a spin macro to finish every mission as fast as possible even if others are just enjoying themsleves. This is a Co-operative PVE experience, the expectation is to /not/ have to deal with people who just want their loot and don't particularly care about the rest of the game or it's players. The expectation is being able to play how you want with a group of people and not get shunted aside or shoehorned in to playing a certain way because of someone else's choice of equipment. Beyond that, being real here, does Warframe really need to be any more brainless in the endgame?

Just looking at this from a gameplay aspect, putting Exalted Whip in the game is already a poor idea based on what we already have in the Exalted Weapon Warframe category, what with Excal being the best melee, Mesa being a ranged murder machine, Valkyr being the only other 'viable' Exalted, Ivara's Artemis Bow being all but ignored for Prowl, and Wukong/Titania basically being memes... Where is there room for Exalted whip? It's got to be better than Exalted Blade to be picked over Exalted Blade or provide better tank than Hysteria to fill that niche and if it doesn't do either of them then she just gets overlooked because of the META anyway.

i can think of reasons for spin to win being entierly fine with exalted whip but what you say about the people wanting to get threw the mission as fast as possable and leave is a thing that already exists in the game even without maim or crits being a factor. this is more an issue with the type of player your matched up with in general (the kind of person who enters into a survival que in a group only to want to leave in the first 5 minuets and trys pressuring everyone else to leave while the other thre want to stay, or any varient of this) and is partly solved by premade groups, playing solo, or being part of an overuling majority if your in a mission that allows you to choose wether to keep going or not.  as for the question dose endgame need to be more brainless?  my goal shifted to hunting eidolons being new end game and is something you cant cheese with spin to win as far as i am aware. sure the super high levels are a thing to think about but really when getting up in level  you NEED damage anyway to be able to keep killing things so the answer in a way is kind of yes but to a certain degree.

as for meta talk, for those who want to min max, they will do what they do  to get the most out of what they can. if exalted whip is inbetwee blade and claws its fine, if its worse then blade oh well. there will still be those who play them because it will be a style that apeals to them wether it is meta or not. hell your refrence in calling titania a meme, i love titanias archwing, to me its fun and great and. i dont see many others playing her but since i enjoy her i will play her and thats fine with me, and i am sure many others will feel the same wether exhalted whip is "meta" or not. because DE has a great habbit of making things look and feel great to use,  ivaras artimis bow being the only exception i can think of because the damage (at least that i have managed to pull out) is just terrible and even struggles to kill low level enemies. cant say jack about wukong tho as i havent built or played him. so trying to say anything about him would be dumb and ignorance on my part based entierly on heresay and not experience.

btw valkyr is my favorite warframe, not even because of hysteria, but because of warcry and eternal war augment. i love being all hacky slashy at great speeds tearing a massive bloody swath threw the battlefield

[shinkido]

5 minutes ago, Laiyenu_Rae said:

I love the amount of people in this thread using Maiming strike as the defense against Exalted whip.

People know exalted weapons cannot use Maiming strike right?

If they wanted her to still be a cc frame the exalted whip could be all about status and have its own combo (like hysteria) that ties up enemies.

 

i find them using maim as a way to say don't salt the whip don't like  being able to 1 shot things spin style

though i wish exalted weapons could use maim. it would be great even if the whip was the only one that could do it id be fine with that.  n_n

[BoneMeowster]

3 minutes ago, shinkido said:

i can think of reasons for spin to win being entierly fine with exalted whip but what you say about the people wanting to get threw the mission as fast as possable and leave is a thing that already exists in the game even without maim or crits being a factor. this is more an issue with the type of player your matched up with in general.

So why further enable the  people who play this way to suck the fun out of the game for others? Just because it's already an option isn't in an of itself a justification to make it that much more viable.

 

Quote

  as for the question dose endgame need to be more brainless?  my goal shifted to hunting eidolons being new end game and is something you cant cheese with spin to win as far as i am aware. sure the super high levels are a thing to think about but really when getting up in level  you NEED damage anyway to be able to keep killing things so the answer in a way is kind of yes but to a certain degree.

Eidolon Hunting, being the only exception to our current brainless endgame of Warframe rather than the rule itself, is just that. The Exception. I'll even go so far as to call bossing 'end game' just to give this point a better footing here and play the Devil's Advocate. If we cut Boss encounters and Eidolons out of the End Game picture we are left with Sorties, Onslaught and Endurance mission runs as the current (and future) end game of Warframe. Are any of these actually challenging with the tools available. As it stands, spamming an Atterax/Soliac Spin2win is incredibly effective in all three of these mission types up to the same point and further than other available options, just to use it as an example. Even a META team running an optimal group set up for a 'until we fail' defense or Survival doesn't really need to put too much in the way of strategizing beyond finding the right spot to hole up and let the carry frames carry. Maybe Trinity goes down when she pokes her head out to EV, if everyone isn't just running Zenurik dashes or Nekros has to chill off of Despoil for a moment so he does die from being glared at by a bombard. That's just the nature of warframe's power fantasy and what you can do in this game. Can you make it a challenge by bringing suboptimal gear/frames? sure. Most people don't.

 

Quote

as for meta talk, for those who want to min max, they will do what they do  to get the most out of what they can. if exalted whip is inbetwee blade and claws its fine, if its worse then blade oh well. there will still be those who play them because it will be a style that apeals to them wether it is meta or not. hell your refrence in calling titania a meme, i love titanias archwing, to me its fun and great and. i dont see many others playing her but since i enjoy her i will play her and thats fine with me, and i am sure many others will feel the same wether exhalted whip is "meta" or not. because DE has a great habbit of making things look and feel great to use,  ivaras artimis bow being the only exception i can think of because the damage (at least that i have managed to pull out) is just terrible and even struggles to kill low level enemies. cant say jack about wukong tho as i havent built or played him. so trying to say anything about him would be dumb and ignorance on my part based entierly on heresay and not experience.

btw valkyr is my favorite warframe, not even because of hysteria, but because of warcry and eternal war augment. i love being all hacky slashy at great speeds tearing a massive bloody swath threw the battlefield

The issue here with this bit is personal preference. And I get where you're coming from. Personally, as a support kind of player, I adore Harrow and despise Trinity. Everything from Harrow's design to his kit to the way he moves and plays is just so friggen gratifying and fun to me. But this doesn't change that the META exists because of what a META is. "Most Efficient Tactics Available". Trinity is in every situation more effective as a support. Mind you, Harrow might be an excellent solo-play frame, but that's besides the point. I mean, am I saying that I wouldn't like to play with an exalted whip? No. Am  I saying that there's not a horde of people who want to see and feel what it's like to use the exalted whip? No. What I'm saying is that people might /want/ exalted whip right now, and there may be people who run it forever just because they love it that  much /but/ there's no room for it in the state of the game as we sit right now. For the vast majority of players it would be a matter of watching Brozime denounce the frame as 'not as good as excalibur but better than valkyr', build Khora, max her out and then just move on to the next thing. Maybe a few of them Forma her. Maybe they don't. Maybe she has a niche where she can be more useful than the damage or blind that Excal has. Maybe she doesn't. As Khora stands, she doesn't have to compete with the Exalted King Excalibur and his Queen Mesa. Giving her Exalted whip would just set her up to be as disappointing as people see her right now, if not more-so.

Believe me when I say I want Khora to be 'viable'. I love her. I've put 4 forma in to Khora and 5 in to Venari, just to push her to her limits because I desperately want to run her in endgame content and not have to feel like someone's gonna blame me for slowing everyone down because I didn't bring a Trinity or Vauban or Nova, etc. etc.

[ChronoJXF]

On 4/24/2018 at 7:51 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

• Whipclaw
  • Whipclaw will apply to and benefit from the combo counter.
  • All enemies caught in the Strangledome will take half of Whipclaw’s attack damage when one enemy in the Strangledome is hit with Whipclaw.
  • Hitting an Ensnared enemy with Whipclaw will cause the living metal to propagate.

- Whipclaw stats doesn't show up the attack speed, so I hope it is affected by the melee attack speed mods equipped, kinda similar stats affecting melee mods with Atlas Landslide ability.

On 4/24/2018 at 7:51 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

• Ensnare
  • Ensnare affects multiple enemies. When an enemy is ensnared, the living metal will propagate and pull in every enemy within range. The living metal ensnaring enemies will then propagate a second time to pull in another wave of enemies within range.
  • Procs no longer wake up ensnared enemies.

- I hope it'll be effective as similar to scarab swarm of Inaros, or might have better mechanic than that.

On 4/24/2018 at 7:51 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

• Venari
• Venari is now a passive ability - Venari is simply there, no casting required. When she dies, she will be revived when you Revive (*it's very likely you'll have the opportunity to revive Venari like other companions, but in the event you miss that window it'll be gone until you revive)
  • Venari fights independently until she receives a command. Khora’s third ability overrides Venari’s target and changes her battle posture at an energy cost.
  • Kavat mods like Animal Instinct have been fixed so they will work properly on Venari.
  • Venari deals slash damage to enemies instead of impact damage.

- It's better if we're still able to resurrect Venari by press holding the third ability then fast resurrect, becuse there's a possibility of having a hard time reviving three teammates and 2 pets at the same time, well resurrecting Venari is just my suggestion.

On 4/24/2018 at 7:51 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

• Strangledome
  • Once an enemy dies in the Strangledome, they will drop to the floor, making room for new victims.
  • We have other plans that are too in-progress to share yet - we'll update here with more information as we get it!

 

- Strangledome stats doesn't show enemies affected, similar with Vauban, and I kinda wish power strength and/or power range is affected by how many enemies affected by this ability.

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, shinkido said:

you dont have to provide this at all but what do you mean by her first kit? the current state before changes? or are you refering to exalted whip? i dont know this so im simply asking but otherwise get what you mean

Initially they had an exalted whip, which wasn't actually what made her unique imho, but more the ability for her to switch between IPS damage types, which actually went along with the creator's vision (she was supposed to be able to grow spikes out of her body).  I know they scrapped it because they aren't sure what they are doing with damage for melee yet, but that also ripped out the most unique thing about the character.  It's still evidenced in the versatility of the hystrix (which shifts damage types) but is otherwise notably absent, and that kind of sucks because it would have made her a unique warframe that could fill a different niche that the others didn't.  Now she's just a low rent version of other frames and it's VERY underwhelming.

[Hawk197]

Personally, I hope Khora finds her own way in the game. Right now we have so many jack of all trade frames, that it feels like we're playing the same warframe constantly, just each version of that warframe has a new coat of paint. I can heal as a Hydroid or Limbo, I can control with Trinity or Valkyr, I can even tank as a Volt or Equinox. There's no reason to use one frame over another, because every frame can fill the job equally. I really hope Khora breaks that mold, becoming strictly damage, support, healing, tank, or whatever.

 

As for her skills, if DE decides to make her a more focused frame, I'd like something along the lines of

Venari: Personally I rather it be an ability, or at the very least be resummonable with the third ability. As others have said, trying to revive multiple teammates can be difficult if Venari goes down as well. And personally, I'd like to see more of Khoras' tool kit focused around Venari. Khoras' 2 and 3 focuse on Venari as is, so why not give the 1 and 4 something to do with Venari as well?

1: Whipclaw deals single target damage, but commands Venari to do something to the target. Attack commands a vicious attack on the target, Protect commands a restraining effect on the target (Similar to the Unleashed ability of the Sunika Kubrow), Heal commands Venari to search for a healing orb on the target.

2: Ensnare looks good.

3:  Again, looks good.

4: Strangledome is... Meh? Enemies can shoot through it, so the only real enemies that will get trapped by it are melees, or if you go max range to force it to snatch enemies already inside it. Maybe have Strangledome seek out targets affected by Ensnare? I don't know, it just seems like a damaging version of Vaubans' bastille right now.

[shinkido]

18 minutes ago, CatOfTechnology said:

So why further enable the  people who play this way to suck the fun out of the game for others? Just because it's already an option isn't in an of itself a justification to make it that much more viable.

 

Eidolon Hunting, being the only exception to our current brainless endgame of Warframe rather than the rule itself, is just that. The Exception. I'll even go so far as to call bossing 'end game' just to give this point a better footing here and play the Devil's Advocate. If we cut Boss encounters and Eidolons out of the End Game picture we are left with Sorties, Onslaught and Endurance mission runs as the current (and future) end game of Warframe. Are any of these actually challenging with the tools available. As it stands, spamming an Atterax/Soliac Spin2win is incredibly effective in all three of these mission types up to the same point and further than other available options, just to use it as an example. Even a META team running an optimal group set up for a 'until we fail' defense or Survival doesn't really need to put too much in the way of strategizing beyond finding the right spot to hole up and let the carry frames carry. Maybe Trinity goes down when she pokes her head out to EV, if everyone isn't just running Zenurik dashes or Nekros has to chill off of Despoil for a moment so he does die from being glared at by a bombard. That's just the nature of warframe's power fantasy and what you can do in this game. Can you make it a challenge by bringing suboptimal gear/frames? sure. Most people don't.

 

The issue here with this bit is personal preference. And I get where you're coming from. Personally, as a support kind of player, I adore Harrow and despise Trinity. Everything from Harrow's design to his kit to the way he moves and plays is just so friggen gratifying and fun to me. But this doesn't change that the META exists because of what a META is. "Most Efficient Tactics Available". Trinity is in every situation more effective as a support. Mind you, Harrow might be an excellent solo-play frame, but that's besides the point. I mean, am I saying that I wouldn't like to play with an exalted whip? No. Am  I saying that there's not a horde of people who want to see and feel what it's like to use the exalted whip? No. What I'm saying is that people might /want/ exalted whip right now, and there may be people who run it forever just because they love it that  much /but/ there's no room for it in the state of the game as we sit right now. For the vast majority of players it would be a matter of watching Brozime denounce the frame as 'not as good as excalibur but better than valkyr', build Khora, max her out and then just move on to the next thing. Maybe a few of them Forma her. Maybe they don't. Maybe she has a niche where she can be more useful than the damage or blind that Excal has. Maybe she doesn't. As Khora stands, she doesn't have to compete with the Exalted King Excalibur and his Queen Mesa. Giving her Exalted whip would just set her up to be as disappointing as people see her right now, if not more-so.

Believe me when I say I want Khora to be 'viable'. I love her. I've put 4 forma in to Khora and 5 in to Venari, just to push her to her limits because I desperately want to run her in endgame content and not have to feel like someone's gonna blame me for slowing everyone down because I didn't bring a Trinity or Vauban or Nova, etc. etc.

what you say is very well said and presented nicely.  even personal minor wording nitpicks i have for this are so small they are not worth writing into this response, and so i say instead. well done, there is practically nothing for me to argue about here. 

if anything it shows me i need to improve my wording and presentation overall.

[angetrox]

@[DE]Rebecca Venari: Definitely a positive boost in the right direction with this ability.

• Idea 3: Skill  VENARI:  ATTACK >>> PROTECT >>>>> HEAL >>>>> STEALTH (hold position or follow) >>>>> LURE (choose one target like ash and Venari position) 

[One-shot-one-miss]

-The pet as passive is a good idea and i dont understand why some people complain about it. It will have probably a revive time, as any other pet, so whats the problem? Dont we already do that with our kavats? I wish her 3 would be another ability although, cause if your venari is dead, then your 3 will be unusable, which seems just wrong.

-Also why some people complain about her Strangledome as well? They compare it with vaubans bastille and that bullets are goin through it. But they forget one very important thing: That If Strangledome catch an enemy (and u can cast it multiple times with good range btw) then all enemies will attack that prisoner. Which makes it, an excelent defensive (except cc) ability as well!

@[DE]RebeccaSo just an idea: why dont u change her "1" and make it capable to pull close enemies from afar? Like mag's "1" but it will only works where u aim, with probably a small area effect. If u give it enough range, It will synergice excelent with Strangledome! Or, it would be great for closing the distance and fast melee enemies. That also sounds properly for a lasso.

Otherwise.. Who is gonna use "1" continuously anyway (and just for a single enemy dmg), when in the same time, you can just clean all the room with ur main/melee wpn?

[SlashBurn]

First ability- I like it I don't think the with of the attack should be changed by range mods even though some people have been saying it should it's a whip but I  think it should homing would make it just work in the kit a little bit better cause you have swinging targets with Strangledome outside of that it works for me.

Second ability - The changes seem like a great adjustment and can't wait.

Third ability - I like were DE's head is at for it but some small changes I would like to suggest.  One since she is a special machine Kavat give her a special like the rest of the Kubrows/Kavats and that special should be you guessed it Vacuum. Second instead of changing modes you could change the effect she give to with in a certain range of it. Like the Healing buff stays the same but much reduced like 5-10 like a buff up regen Aura, Defend would be an armor buff either static number like OBs 2 or a % once again not high but something noticeable, and finally her attack would give a bonus to attack like 5-10% dmg buff like rhino. For Reviving it should be ability cast for 100 energy and switching between should be 25. Lastly her 3 should be moved to the 4 slot.

Fourth ability - First off changed it to her 3.  Second give the base range a slight increase and a mild increase in the tick dmg or make the tick dmg be able to give a status effect from her melee weapon which will greatly improve it effectiveness in higher end missions.

[shinkido]

1 hour ago, One-shot-one-miss said:

-The pet as passive is a good idea and i dont understand why some people complain about it. It will have probably a revive time, as any other pet, so whats the problem? Dont we already do that with our kavats? I wish her 3 would be another ability although, cause if your venari is dead, then your 3 will be unusable, which seems just wrong.

>>>>"if your venari is dead, then your 3 will be unusable, which seems just wrong."<<<<  this. this is what many peoples problem with the venari change is mainly about

[One-shot-one-miss]

18 minutes ago, shinkido said:

>>>>"if your venari is dead, then your 3 will be unusable, which seems just wrong."<<<<  this. this is what many peoples problem with the venari change is mainly about

So why  just not fix venari's AI/behaviour (which 2 of 3 are not useful aready) somehow else ? Like make them special mods for venari (guard/heal), or make  them its special abilities for example.. That could easily fix the problem and would give them  space for one new ability.

[shinkido]

Just now, One-shot-one-miss said:

So why  just not fix venari's AI/behaviour somehow else? That will fix the problem and will give us 1 more new ability.

while the ai could do with some improving. i assume the move to passive is so you don't have to keep recasting her even though that is entirely fine,  it is a possative change to make minus the part where you have to die to get her back which everyone hates and even if venari's ai is improved, that still leaves the isssue of her being able to die which means khora loses 1/4 of her kit. In terms of gaining a new ability, they would have to make one implament it AND alter how venari is controled. which takes time and aditional work.  more work im asuming than moving venari from duration to passive would take in the short term when trying to get a new patch out in a reasonably quick time frame 

 

[One-shot-one-miss]

37 minutes ago, shinkido said:

it is a possative change to make minus the part where you have to die to get her back which everyone hates and even if venari's ai is improved, that still leaves the isssue of her being able to die which means khora loses 1/4 of her kit. In terms of gaining a new ability, they would have to make one implament it AND alter how venari is controled.

 

 I get ur point, but assuming that:

a) y can always revine it before it dies, b) stays as passive and c) her 3 would be something completely else.. Then no one would care i guess. Venari would just be an extra completely free kavat as additional with the one already have. And we would see it only like that. An extra passive-free help, which u must kinda care about it, as any normal pet in the battle.

As for the behaviour part, im not a programmer, but i dont think the solution "make them special mods" would be any difficult or  time consuming to be done. Are like only 2 simple mods, as health: "regenerate +*% health for * secs  to anyone  in the squad has health lower than *%" (maybe with a small cooldown for balancing issues and works closely to as it is now),   guard: "gives u *% extra armor" (as the defensive behaviour was terrible in my opinion and not needed as it is now). The Venari behaviour could now be always "aggresive" as it is in any pet by normal.

[shinkido]

7 minutes ago, One-shot-one-miss said:

 I get ur point, but assuming that:

a) y can always revine it before it dies, b) stays as passive and c) her 3 would be something completely else.. Then no one would care i guess. Venari would just be an extra completely free kavat as additional with the one already have. And we would see it only like that. An extra passive free help.

As for the behaviour part, im not a programmer, but i dont think the solution "make them special mods" would be any difficult or  time consuming to be done. Are like only 2 simple mods, as "health": regenerate health to everyone in the team  when his health is lower than *%,   guard: gives u *% extra armor (as the defensive behaviour was terrible in my opinion not needed as it is now)  The Venari behaviour could now be "aggresive" as it is to any pet by normal.

assuming A) is actually completely doable no matter how much time passes no matter how surrounded or strong the enemies are, you can always revive venari. right then peoples complaints would be more then halved even if recast is faster. and if she was going to be getting a new ability alltogeather, speculation would suggest khoras 3 would become strangle dome and 4 would be exalted whip..  as for how venari is seen. yes free kavat, but would still be great for the free kavat to be free undying kavat. since even if direct controle of her is removed, venari is still not a normal kavat and should not be treated like one.  a kavat with the lore of being basically dead when found and simply willing themselves back to life instead of being a simple home grown kavat, one would asume would be able to use that ability of theirs

as for the mod solution, its deffinetly something to think about but not likely to be implamented with how things seem to be going, and yes protect from my testing dosent do to much yet

[One-shot-one-miss]

I think the cost for a passive venari would be, to not be " undying " and the gain would be, one more ability. Im not sure if there is any way to have both. Even if there was, i dont know if it would be any fair and balanced, to have such a good passive with other 4 abilities together. Would be like the only frame with kinda 5 abilities instead of 4.

[shinkido]

3 minutes ago, One-shot-one-miss said:

I think the cost for a passive venari would be, to not be " undying " and the gain would be, one more ability. Im not sure if there is any way to have both. Even if there was, i dont know if it would be any fair and balanced, to have such a good passive with other 4 abilities together. Would be like the only frame with kinda 5 abilities instead of 4.

that is if the goal is to move strangle dome and give exalted whip and not remove strangledome alltogeather for the whip. also you have to consider venari is not all that strong in the first place so even if khoraa had all 5 togeather with venari being undying (as in gose into bleedout untill picked up and or time runs out and gets up on her own) it wouldent be that big of a boost to khora. she would simply be the first frame of her kind since she already comes with her own special personal kavat making her the first frame to have an extended arsenal list

and technically she wouldent be the first frame with more then 4 abilities in this game

[Shidonia]

So far my thoughts on Khora

base duration for her 2nd and 4th ability are really too short.

Ensnare

propagation delay is not bad but animation that pulls the other enemies should be much more faster and deal a chain reaction to some extended maybe four times at least

I won't talk about venari because venari is like your 3rd ability that you need to forma multiple times to make stronger and pet AI rework may take a look up onto that but I don't like this ability.

Strangledome:

I believe the grab radius of the ability should be much more larger overall especially at the top since it's a dome the only enemy type you see are the jumping infested moa units only they get caught to the top cuz they jump and top grabbing points are able to catch them and inside of the dome is always crawling with the enemy because of that while the frame of the dome captures few enemies and be full with it. I find the grab points really less as well there should be much more chains and less blank points that grabs enemies when synergized with ensnare covering the dome layer. 

 

[Seraphim_Okashira]

I know this is being way ahead of things, but I can't wait for Khora's first deluxe skin ^_^ Also, these changes sound good, really good. Keep up the great work DE.

[Am0rph15]

If you're reading this - thanks, DE, for the tweaks to Khora. The frame appealed because I wanted to run two Kavats, so I bought her motivated by that and to show support. Having Venari as a passive is really welcome since it must extend the period (compared with Khora v1) that my companion Kavat and Venari can be active together. DE Rebecca's: "you'll have the opportunity to revive Venari like other companions, but in the event you miss that window it'll be gone until you revive" feels like a reasonable trade-off for getting a passive and extended period, IMHO, since Venrai could be made to last an entire mission with skill.