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[DE]Rebecca

Khora's Planned Changes

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More or Less was hoping her strangledome was just changed into a CC like Vauban and not have them swing around and be in general harder to hit which now since it combos and if you miss because of the swinging you kinda just waste energy :/.

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il y a 8 minutes, -AoN-CanoLathra- a dit :

If you build Venari properly, she is tanky. You just have to put at least one health or armor mod on Khora, which isn't a bad idea in and of itself.

Regular kavats are still more tankier than her because they have another layer of protection with decoy/reflect.

Her defence mode and autos in heal mode lock her in place too and she can only face tank the damage.

Let alone the fact that her modes don't feel all that powerful compared to charm or cat's eye to begin with.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

  • Venari
  • Venari is now a passive ability - Venari is simply there, no casting required. When she dies, she will be revived when you Revive (*it's very likely you'll have the opportunity to revive Venari like other companions, but in the event you miss that window it'll be gone until you revive)

For everyone that's asking if we will be able to revive Venari is says it right here that it's very likely that we'll have the opportunity to like other companions. But I would like if we could just bring her back by casting 3 if she dies along with her coming back when we die, or they could just get rid of the duration and keep as summon.

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Problem: Pets feel too detached from the Beastmaster Style Warframe, I'd like to give her a more direct command ability in line with her kit.

Solution: Give her #3 ability to charge up, or [hold] alternative to tapping it. So keep the tapping the ability changes the pet's mode behavior, keep the behavior where the pet will "auto cast" it's abilities when selected. However, charging up that ability forces the behavior on the target, causing the pet to go to that location and perform the behavior. If the pet is stuck or unable to path there, it would perform the summoning animation previously attributed to the pet to teleport it there, this gets around tricky pathing that can get pets stuck. If you need an in-universe rationale for this, think of "Commanding" the pet to use that ability.

Alternative Solution: I'd like to see the #1 Whipclaw EITHER

1 - deal a garenteed or high-chance slash proc to trigger Hunter Command mod in pets causing them to attack the target. 

or

2 - Trigger an effect similar to Hunter Command and cause active pets to attack the target.


Reason: This would create more synergy with the pet and make it feel more like an extension of the Warframe instead of an afterthought.


My feedback is Thumbs Up for the following changes, please note these were also things I personally suggested to my viewers during a live-stream while testing her abilities.

  • All enemies caught in the Strangledome will take half of Whipclaw’s attack damage when one enemy in the Strangledome is hit with Whipclaw.
  • Hitting an Ensnared enemy with Whipclaw will cause the living metal to propagate.
  • Ensnare effects multiple enemies. When an enemy is ensnared, the living metal will propagate and pull in every enemy within range. The living metal ensnaring enemies will then propagate a second time to pull in another wave of enemies within range.
Edited by Zaric
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Can Khora's Pet kavat become an ultimate?

Here are some ideas to make it really exciting.

  1. Summoning the pet makes it appear using teleporting attacks against enemies in the area like ash's bladestorm.
  2. The pet drains energy/second and that energy cost is affected by mods. So you can make Venari pet more powerful because it won't always be out.
  3. Cycling between pet mods gives the pet different AoE aura. One aura can apply bleeding, one aura can replenish shields, stuff like that so the AI being stupid isn't making it useless.
  4. You can summon/unsummon the pet. Unsummoning the pet before it is killed will do something similar to equinox's maim/mend! Depending on how much damage, or healing, venari pet did!

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@[DE]Rebecca Please don't put Venari on passive. Just get rid of her duration and keep her health based or get rid of health and keep duration.

I don't want to have to worry about keeping two pets alive.

This will make it very unfun.

Edited by Bigmacbook
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I feel like Venari will still be mostly useless (if not more problematic) simply because of the kavat AI's shortcomings. She attacks infrequently, often gets stuck on level geometry, and has no apparent self-preservation. She'll continue to take up one quarter of Khora's abilities, but she'll also have to be cared for when she's inevitably knocked out, and now can't even be summoned when that happens.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

When she dies, she will be revived when you Revive (*it's very likely you'll have the opportunity to revive Venari like other companions, but in the event you miss that window it'll be gone until you revive)

I'm confused why resummoning wouldn't be considered as an ability cost.

Like how Equinox starts in one form and then swaps at an energy cost.

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Hm, Venari automatically being there is better, but the idea that she can bleed out and you having to be revived to get her back isn't as appealing. I wonder how hard it would be to implement this idea: Instead of her coming back when Khora is revived, how about Venari returns after a specific amount of time, kinda like a respawn timer, that way Khora's 3rd ability isnt useless after losing Venari (her 3rd ability icon could have a timer on it showing how long until Venari returns).

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I just saw this from youtuber and it was a HUGE i mean HUGE buff and fixes to Khora...

 

However please fix the decreasing loyalty of Kubrow about this. And keeping the venari as not a castable but passive, it's just great but don't remove the beastarmor also please DE XD

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No, Natural Talent is not great, "always" or, in fact, at any time. It is a bandaid mod - one of the many in this game - that you use to justify not making substantive changes. So many frame abilities have ridiculous cast times, and you even recently nerfed Zephyr's Turbulence by giving it a longer, slower cast time than it had previously!

In any case, changing Venari into just another pet that will constantly go down and need to be manually revived is terrible. That is already one of the many reasons people do not use animals over sentinels.
Edited by Cryssoberyl
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The 3rd ability wont be useful if your cat dies and you cant revive her and so you will be stuck with a frame with one useless ability if you get screwed. Make it so if Venari dies her 3 respawns her at the cost of  a lot of energy

Edited by KubrowTamer
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2 hours ago, Diarmut said:

I felt this exactly when I saw these changes, how can Wukong go unchanged when this ability will scale superbly now. RIP Monkey King, your form in Smite fares far better.

The most upsetting part about Wukong in my eyes, his ult... how in the forbidden kingdom can any mortal's melee weapon have greater range than his staff? Doesn't make sense, he should be the melee king.

 

These changes to Khora please me, had to move on to the next complaint :D

Edited by XiaolinDraconis
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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Here's what we're planning on doing with Khora!
 

  • Ability casting times have been shortened across the board - Natural Talent is always great, but the base animations needed shortening.

Sounds good.   (But please apply this policy to many  other slooooooow abilities on  warframes. :thumbup: )

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Though, how about making Venari requires summoning like how it is before the change that stays permanently until it dies. Once it dies there's a cooldown before u can summon it again. Having to revive it once in a while when running/trying higher level mission is an already existing problem with the kubrows and kavats.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

  • Venari
  • Venari is now a passive ability - Venari is simply there, no casting required. When she dies, she will be revived when you Revive (*it's very likely you'll have the opportunity to revive Venari like other companions, but in the event you miss that window it'll be gone until you revive)
    • Venari fights independently until she receives a command. Khora’s third ability overrides Venari’s target and changes her battle posture at an energy cost.
    • Kavat mods like Animal Instinct have been fixed so they will work properly on Venari.
    • Venari deals slash damage to enemies instead of impact damage

The changes to her other abilities sound like a massive improvement across the board.

But I don't think they realized how these Venari changes are actually a pretty significant nerf. Spending energy to bring Venari out again may not sound as appealing at face value, but at least you will always be able to bring Venari back. Also consider that Venari's potential health value is pretty decent right now, so you're probably not having to recast to bring her back very often. The way her survivability and energy situation work right now is actually pretty decent. However, now that you may have to pause your gameplay to revive Venari, as well as the possibility of losing her entirely sounds like a net negative to me. Also changing over to Slash damage isn't very significant unless the status chance is significantly higher. Maybe even make it a forced proc. I don't think that's unreasonable. 

Also just spending energy to change the battle posture seems impractical. Spending energy to give a command sounds good. However, the battle posture I think needs to be on an alternative press/hold basis with no energy cost. 

But these changes don't really get at the heart of the problem. The Kavat needs to do something meaningful. None of Venari's battle postures are particularly useful right now and there aren't any recommended changes to them in the post. All 3 stances present the opportunity for a very creative design, but I couldn't imagine them being more bland (and minimally useful) than they are right now. I would encourage the Devs to really think creatively about these stances, or listen to some user suggestions because there are a lot of great ideas out there.

Now I'm not saying DE did a bad job with this one. For the most part, these seem like really good changes. But I think the Venari changes are going to prove to be a miss and need to be rethought and addressed with the goal of improving the stances. The way Venari is summoned and maintained is fine as is.

Edited by (PS4)Jedi_Arts_
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I assume Venari have a bleedout stat but I feel this would make her more of a burden. Due to the current pet ai

Would it be possible to revive her by pressing 3 again? Make it like a higher energy cost or something to resummon her. Of course keep her permanent when you summon her.

Because if she functions like a normal pet I feel like most of the time Venari would just die and not be used in any sortie level mission. Her survivability is also in question due to her not exactly having defensive stance such as reflect or Mischief. I feel like having an easy way to revive her would make her more useable.

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It would be kool if the khorvat built up stacks when you make it attack a specific enemie a la press three and then when x stacks accumulate hold three to unleash (pet pun) a special attack. 

In my mind i picture something like nightcrawlers special from the old x-men 4 player arcade game. But, anything kool would be... uh.. kool. 

Or maybe it should have a smol version of all of the kavat buffs from both breeds mixed into one, with said stacks. 

 

I hope someone sees this and either implements it or gets an inspiration from it and adds something super neato to her to replace her three with more than simply 'target and posture'.

 

It would be kool if her three could summon a kubrow. Maybe a spectral one or undead one. Spawns with a random breed. 

Kk. 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

But I don't think they realized how these Venari changes are actually a pretty significant nerf. Spending energy to bring Venari out again may not sound as appealing at face value, but at least you will always be able to bring Venari back. Also consider that Venari's potential health value is pretty decent right now, so you're probably not having to recast to bring her back very often. The way her survivability and energy situation work right now is actually pretty decent. However, now that you may have to pause your gameplay to revive Venari, as well as the possibility of losing her entirely sounds like a net negative to me.

They could just let Venari requires summoning first like it was, switching mode uses 10-20% of the summoning energy cost, and if it dies, simply add a short cooldown and later allow us to resummon Venari, or make us able to re-summon Venari right away but re-summonning within the cooldown time will take 150%-200% of the original summon energy cost

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2 hours ago, Cray said:

If Venari is passive, highly recommend giving her a bleedout state like normal pets.

 

Edit: Food for thought, while Venari is dead, you go from having four abilities to three. (Under this proposal)

Really good point here

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will we be able to rez venari like a normal kavat/kubrow? or will the only way to get her back is to die and revive?

but otherwise, the changes look great and the right step for khora.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
    • Kavat mods like Animal Instinct have been fixed so they will work properly on Venari.

Everything sounds SO MUCH BETTER!

Just, please, and I say PLEASE let us continue double modding. IE- One Maul, One Animal Instinct, etc.

This is a little embarrassing but also- sorry, not sorry...  I kind of passively get Endo and even though I'm MR22 I don't have mods like Maul, Link Health/Shields/Armor, Bite maxed out and couldn't possibly fathom having to do it if I want to take advantage of her beastliness. So I'm asking calmly and politely... please don't mess up all these changes by making us use duplicates. Let's face it, no matter what you do for Venari she isn't going to outpace any human player with a weapon by a longshot, without even considering a weapon with massive range and spin2win. My point is it's not going to be imbalanced by this. Please.

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All good progress. Like others have said though, Venari is just as fragile as other Kubrows and Kavats, so the third ability not being able to bring her back or at least teleport her beside Khora (even when downed) would make her presence very low in high level missions. It would become "Revive Venari: The Game" which is tedious and not fun.

I really like the idea of Venari becoming data-immortal due to her choosing to enter the Sanctuary. Venari and Khora are an inseparable duo, two bodies one mind, so her being a persistent element in Khora's gameplay no matter the threats they face is paramount to the player experience. You'll only be able to do that if Venari is constantly accompanying Khora and not dying so quickly.

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