Loki's Decoy Needs A Change, Specifically For Higher Leveled Missions

[Alenjak7]

Loki's decoy is very powerful for early missions and is still pretty useful into mid-game. But it becomes very weak later on as enemies' damage increases. I just finished soloing a Phobos mission (the middle exterminate one), and even though Phobos isn't very late game, my decoy died within a few seconds every time I put it up because the Eviscerators would do so much damage immediately. I haven't tried it in end-game missions, but I imagine it's destroyed even quicker making it pretty much useless.

 

I'm proposing that leveling up the Decoy mod also increases its health and shield and maybe also armor. Or why can't the decoy just be invulnerable to damage so that it always stays as long as your mods allow?

[Ralthor]

Invulnerable would be far too overpowered. I do agree though that atm once the enemy levels get to about 30-40 Decoy gets pretty useless except as a very brief distraction when the S#&$ hits the fan and you need to leg it for cover. 

[SkacikPLz]

Agreed.

But generally you should put decoy in hardly accessible spots.

 

Just above ground works well against infested. Putting it in tight spots, where it's covered from at least 2/3 sides increases its longevity greatly.

[legionprobatio]

Loki's decoy isn't meant to withstain a lot of damage, just as a decoy for a few moments. It's also a starter frame so it shouldn't be good anyway.

[Towermice]

Loki's decoy isn't meant to withstain a lot of damage, just as a decoy for a few moments. It's also a starter frame so it shouldn't be good anyway.

Just because it's a starter frame doesn't mean it's bad. It's just something to start with. ._.

[Aver]

while i agree with most about how decoy shouldnt be invuln since when it was it was $&*&*#(%&, no i dont think loki being a starter frame should make him worse, since starter frames are just what you get so you can play, not the worst frames so you could upgrade and it upsets me greatly that people think its fine to leave loki like this

[michaelwii]

Loki's decoy isn't meant to withstain a lot of damage, just as a decoy for a few moments. It's also a starter frame so it shouldn't be good anyway.

 

... That's like saying charizard is bad because it's one of the starter pokemon. 

[-Refractor-]

Loki's decoy isn't meant to withstain a lot of damage, just as a decoy for a few moments. It's also a starter frame so it shouldn't be good anyway.

Just because its a starter frame does not mean it should be any weaker than any other frame, DE has been trying to make all the frames equal.

 

Back on topic Decoy is fine as it is, just put it where it wont take damage quickly but will still draw attention, last time I used it on a pluto mission it lasted less than a second before dying, but nonetheless it disrupted their fire for long enough that I would run away. Decoy should be left as is or possibly given a boost in armor, nothing more

[Alenjak7]

Loki's decoy isn't meant to withstain a lot of damage, just as a decoy for a few moments. It's also a starter frame so it shouldn't be good anyway.

It becomes less than a few moments (like 1-2 seconds) which does almost literally nothing in end-game defense missions where there are several hundred enemies per wave. The previous suggestion on skillful decoy placement actually has some worth.

 

And being a starter frame shouldn't make it weak. It's one of my favorites because its abilities don't do damage, but have a lot of utility instead. Loki players be punished just because it's one of the first Warframes you find. Warframe shouldn't degenerate into a "Farm until you have the best everything" game where you can literally be the strongest in everything because you play the game 24 hours a day. That takes away skill and it severely reduces the point of having other warframes or even playing other warframes because all others would be obsolete to whatever the strongest is. They should be balanced, with each having their own strengths and weaknesses for various situations.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Alenjak7

[Ganpot]

Perhaps the decoy should have the same health and shields as the player who deployed it? 

 

However, I think that Saryn's Molt ability needs to be buffed way more than Decoy does.  At least Decoy lasts a while and can be deployed almost anywhere.  Molt has nothing going for it at the moment. 

[Ariarch]

What about multiple molts with no duration, just health?

Molt walls incoming.

And also, I am all for invincible decoys.

[Red-Lynx]

Right now you're better off just using Radial Disarm (situational as it can screw certain team compositions) and Invisibility on Loki unless you plan on messing with autopathing by placing the Decoy in a select few places. It's beyond me why so many people want Decoy to stay the way it is.

 

I think invulnerability with a shorter duration of deployment is a fine change. Remember that Nyx also has a 25 energy ability that works somewhat similarly, but has greater potential for soaking damage since you can use it on heavies/ancients/etc. and then also has what basically amounts to an AOE decoy. Considering something like that exists, Decoy needs help.

 

It gets boring being limited to only Invisibilty as a dependable mechanic while Decoy requires derping the AI.

[Stygi]

Decoy can't last a few seconds because, with the aggro system, it alerts enemies and they seek you out when the decoy is gone. Also, in a game where you farm farm farm exp and mats, abilities should make it easier to defeat enemies and not really escape. That's why Super Jump, Wormhole, Switch Teleport etc. do receive their share of player neglect in-game.

 

Decoy just has too simple an implementation from start to now for the power to work as intended. It will either break the game by making game play brain dead easy or be completely useless.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Stygi

[Ganpot]

What about multiple molts with no duration, just health?

 

I would be completely fine with that change.  It would make Molt and Decoy actually distinct from each other, with both having strengths and weaknesses. 

 

 

Also, in a game where you farm farm farm exp and mats, abilities should make it easier to defeat enemies and not really escape. That's why Super Jump, Wormhole, Switch Teleport etc. do receive their share of player neglect in-game.

 

Wormhole is very useful already.  The reason Switch Teleport, Teleport, and Super Jump are all rarely used is that they require very specific conditions in order to be useful.  Plus, Super Jump can't be used while already airborne (which is stupid), and Teleport practically taunts enemies to punch you in the face as you do a flashy air flip in front of them.  Escape abilities aren't inherently bad, those ones are just underpowered (well, Switch Teleport isn't technically bad, just niche). 

[MageMeat]

Right now you're better off just using Radial Disarm (situational as it can screw certain team compositions) and Invisibility on Loki unless you plan on messing with autopathing by placing the Decoy in a select few places. It's beyond me why so many people want Decoy to stay the way it is.

 

I think invulnerability with a shorter duration of deployment is a fine change. Remember that Nyx also has a 25 energy ability that works somewhat similarly, but has greater potential for soaking damage since you can use it on heavies/ancients/etc. and then also has what basically amounts to an AOE decoy. Considering something like that exists, Decoy needs help.

 

It gets boring being limited to only Invisibilty as a dependable mechanic while Decoy requires derping the AI.

I agree completely. Invulnerability in exchange for shorter duration is fair.

Maybe remove a quarter or half of it's total lifetime?

[Vermalech]

How about making it take a certain number of hits, instead of just damage. So that is scales at all levels and remains balanced. Not sure what number would be suitable, but you get the idea. Numbers can be more easily changed then the concept. 

[Shamse]

That's not it.

 

The higher levels in general are just dumb.

 

The need for attk and defense in anything beyond level 40 is just an annoying piece of power creep that needs to stop being so relevant. Common, level 100'S IN T3 DEFENSES? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

 

If they'd raise the level cap it'd be fine, but they won't because much of the game is in the level 40's and below. But the parts that are level 60-100 can make any warframe move that isn't damage based obsolete (except for anything that has no health to it, like Vaubans Bastial). I say this about all my combat mmo's- numbers are numbers, and numbers aren't that fun.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Lyelentu

[GetAtMeMods]

Perhaps the decoy should have the same health and shields as the player who deployed it? 

 

However, I think that Saryn's Molt ability needs to be buffed way more than Decoy does.  At least Decoy lasts a while and can be deployed almost anywhere.  Molt has nothing going for it at the moment.

Crouching molt is op.

[Darth_Sith]

+1

[Paradoxbomb]

I think that invulnerability in exchange for some of it's duration would be a fair trade-off. If you actually use it you'll see that it actually isn't quite that great for aggro as one would suspect; it draws the initial attention of enemies next to it (usually) but I've seen enemies run right pass it to get to a target in Def/Mobile Def. If anything, there are CC abilities that already border on overpowered that outshine a measly decoy, even if they do cost more energy.

 

At the very least, it could have an initial 5 seconds of invincibility, followed by switching over to a destructible state.

[Nightshyft]

AS I have stated before in other Loki threads...make the Hologram TRANSPARENT. It is constructed LIGHT. Have Friendly Fire Pass through...Have ENEMY fire pass through it...have ALL DAMAGE PASS THROUGH IT. In this, it gives the Decoy greater depth of use. Especially if you have he enemy capable of damaging EACH other when  they fire through IT! THIS is battlefield manipulation. THIS will make the Decoy useful on ANY level.

 

It does NOT make the power OP. It still accomplishes the same exact function. It is still a sponge for enemy aggro.This will just make it a power that can be used in all levels...not just early ones only.