Sanctuary Onslaught: Difficulty Changes!

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Lower Enemy Levels?! Seriously? Let's map this out.

The issue is focus. Enemies die too fast due to low EHp and our massive DPS, so focus gains are massive. Solution?

Lower Levels. 🤨

Why not just keep the levels where they are, but make the enemies contain their actual stats, so they will be harder to kill?

Better yet, if affinity gain is not the idea of Onslaught, lower the affinity of enemies in their. Remove the cap on enemy levels so that we can naturally have our kill rates reduced, rather than the game telling me "Nope, you're not allowed unless you have half a day to spare." It's a matter of have difficulty fighting in the game over fighting the game itself.

DE, you're fighting the players directly instead of having the game do that for you. It feels wrong. Onslaught is a game mode created for the hardcore players. The people that want to push themselves in game will use this for the thrill of it and perhaps some of the rewards. Our DPS when you get to the hardcore level is far higher than anything in game. This is proven by teams reaching 6-7 hours easy without scaling methods in a survival (When I mean scaling, I mean no scaling damage or CL Dagger). Don't ruin it for us. Trust me when I say any frame or weapon (not including lower performance versions of them like MK-1 Braton vs. Braton Prime) can and will do fine at normal level 180 levels.

[jiminatorx]

focus solution -> remove 30 second focus period, allow focus to accumulate for entire session at a rate that matches what is currently happening

[UndPanzer]

1 minute ago, Scarlet78 said:

Are you kidding me?  This is insanity... bite-sized arcade style???  Since when???  The whole point of this game mode was to do long runs, see how far we could get, it was sold that way from the very start... are you now trying to tell us that you've changed your mind because you didn't balance it right?    FINALLY having something to do at higher levels other than snore through sorties once a day and you are going to make it so we can't keep going past a certain point?  Why?  You have lost your minds... this is what the veterans of warframe have been crying out for since you took away the old void system!!

Increasing the efficiency drain to inane levels especially when some of the tile spawn rates are already gimped is just gonna be the end of ever going past rotation C and just resetting. 'Limit run duration'??  Why on earth would you want to do that?  Focus is already capped at 250k anyway, what does it matter if I want to spend 3 hours in there?  Whats the difference, apart from more fun and more of a challenge instead of just resetting every 20 mins .... yet another farm snore fest.

Don't make it easier, but don't make the efficiency impossible... let us go long... PLEASE

this man is a hero, he talked everything people want to say, please DE if you show any interest on high level players DON'T GO THROUGH WITH THIS CHANGE, i don't want to get back to entering the game to do a sortie per day and leave to play something else 

[DMXGeo]

ENDLESS ONSLAUGHT BUT YOU WANT IT BE A BIT SIZED ARCADE MODE (WHICH DOESN'T MAKE IT ENDLESS) WITH NO REASON TO GO PAST ZONE 8 BECAUSE YOU CAN JUST LEAVE AND RE-ENTER FOR THE REWARDS AND VETERAN PLAYERS WON'T PLAY BECAUSE EFFICIENCY WILL END THEM BEFORE ACTUAL ENEMIES DO - THE RULES WILL STOP THE RUN AND NOT THE GAMEPLAY BECAUSE "MAH LEADERBOARDS" AND ALSO "YEAH WE KNOW IT'LL LESSEN FOCUS BUT INSTEAD OF SCALING IT WE'LL DO A FOCUS REWORK LIKE WE SAID WE WOULD 6 MONTHS AGO."

LMFAO.

Please consider what Hixlysss said about the challenge being the enemies and not the efficiency counter if you want to be taken seriously.

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, Hixlysss said:

IMO Elite mode the challenge should be the enemies themselves, not the efficiency counter...

I think this is a good point!

[Bouldershoulder]

Fix host migration please. I lost Braton vandal receiver because of host migration hang-out.

[--Q--uiescence]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Scarlet78:

Are you kidding me?  This is insanity... bite-sized arcade style???  Since when???  The whole point of this game mode was to do long runs, see how far we could get, it was sold that way from the very start... are you now trying to tell us that you've changed your mind because you didn't balance it right?    FINALLY having something to do at higher levels other than snore through sorties once a day and you are going to make it so we can't keep going past a certain point?  Why?  You have lost your minds... this is what the veterans of warframe have been crying out for since you took away the old void system!!

Increasing the efficiency drain to inane levels especially when some of the tile spawn rates are already gimped is just gonna be the end of ever going past rotation C and just resetting. 'Limit run duration'??  Why on earth would you want to do that?  Focus is already capped at 250k anyway, what does it matter if I want to spend 3 hours in there?  Whats the difference, apart from more fun and more of a challenge instead of just resetting every 20 mins .... yet another farm snore fest.

Don't make it easier, but don't make the efficiency impossible... let us go long... PLEASE

i will cry with you. I feel your pain, i did never bother with any Info to this mode before release, and it was really fun doing it the first time, yes it was S#&$ty failing at 26 and 36 for no reason but i always had hopes they would fix spawn rates and make it possible to play. I do noy think efficiency should be too easy tho, it is supposed to be a kps mode so that only makes sense, but even now it it literaly impossible because u will get unlucky with spawns at some point, and then? game over. A rng system to test your skill, this is insanity, had so much hope for this, but i give up they messed it up and will just make it worse.  Makes u wonder why so many ppl are saying DE is listening to its players, if anything they listen to casual players which do just 8 zonez, which is a thing because the,, op,, frames and setups everyone is talking about are stupid. Whats the problem in giving us something we can enjoy? This had so much potential and i have no idea how it turned out to be that bad. 

 

sorry for any selling mistakes, writing this on my phone.

[Grachuss]

DE accidentally made a fun mission. Gotta fix that.

[Cryssoberyl]

And so another game mode will be rendered impotent by your inability - unwillingness, rather - to provide meaningful rewards for the time and effort involved. In his NoClip interview, Steve talks about the veteran players who "love the game but have run out of things to do". I am one of those, who has been playing vastly less lately because none of the recent additions to the game have been worth my time. Sanctuary Onslaught was, briefly, a welcome change from that, as I have finally been able to progress meaningfully in my Focus tree ambitions just by playing normally, without convoluted affinity farming strategies. For a game mode that provides no loot drops from enemies, this is as it should be.

The intelligent thing to do would be a) leave enemy levels where they are and increase their power to the appropriate strength, while also b) *easing* the burden of Efficiency. It would still be a challenge, but not one dictated by an annoying and artificial "hurry up" mechanic.  However, it seems more likely that SO is destined to die on the pile of recent content that is too much work for too little reward - along with Endless Kuva, Eidolons, and Plains in general, I may say.

[TheYangoose]

This is hilariously out of tune from what the people want. It's funny that this is the day after they won the "People's voice" award.

[dudefaceguy]

Please don't reduce the levels! ESO is extremely easy at its current difficulty. Here's what I'd like to see:

Fix the bug and remove or greatly reduce efficiency decay scaling, at least until wave 8. That way, we can concentrate on killing difficult enemies instead of brainlessly nuking the map. I really, really want enemies that I can't kill in one shot, or nuke with one button press. And, I want to be able to meaningfully engage with them, and have interesting combat interactions, without the timer running out.

You have made lots of enemies that are fun to fight when they are difficult to kill, such as Nox units and Manics. But at the current efficiency scaling, we have to one-shot everything or we lose. This invalidates all of your hard work making those fun enemies.

We already have easy, low-level enemies in every other mission. Thank you for fixing this bug, but please keep the levels as they are!

[HyokaChan]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Here's what we're doing with ELITE Sanctuary Onslaught!

This was so bad I should just dissect the post, though my views and everyone else's seem to be the same:

"I'm very excited now. The anticipation. Ooh. I always learn so much... from a live dissection."

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Enemy scaling is broken.

Oh, about time DE noticed!

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is semi-complicated to fix, because in a way this has led to hollow gains - enemies are providing significantly more Affinity (and thus, Focus) but in reality they are much weaker than they should be. To maintain the current difficulty of the mission type as best we can, we will have to lower enemy levels, which will impact Focus gains. We absolutely intend on this mode still being a Focus boon, and playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception).

"You must be feeling guilty. Need to atone? I'll oblige. Let my nerfbat ring justice off your fun, efficient farm."

 

You can't bash Adaro, make this alternative to Adaro then tell us you're going to make us go back to Adaro for proper Focus capping. If you're going to do this, then you should up the focus multiplier to 20x or even 24x. 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We understand the importance of reaching Zone 8, and will tweak numbers carefully to ensure that mark is still reachable before enemy difficulty is too high. But as a mode intended to offer bite-sized “arcade style” type gameplay, we are adjusting the later stages to further limit run duration: Efficiency Stimuli will no longer appear past Zone 15, and Efficiency drain reaches 10x normal rate by Zone 20, instead of capping at 6x.

"A fun challenge? No, no no no. That sounds... too humane. Your grind shall be... painful."

 We don't even have enough spawns to keep up efficiency at a 6x drain while we one-shot everything through maiming strike or map wide nukes. Why would you increase the drain even further without changing spawn rates? That doesn't even address the original problem to begin with... it just takes all the non-technical problems and makes it worse.

 

 

[Tain_OSkoom]

It seems more in-line with the long implicit goal of promoting gameplay variety to rename efficiency to something like "Attention" as the name for the clock resource, and "Entertainment Factor" a multiplier.

• Every enemy you kill will reward a certain amount of Attention, which drains over time.
  • Attention applies to all Tenno in the current experiment.
• Entertainment Factor will provide a multiplier that also drains over time.
  • Entertainment Factor applies to each Tenno individually.
  • You can increase this multiplier if you:
    • CC an enemy before you kill.
    • Perform a maneuver that you haven't in the past 10s (jump, slide, dash, roll, wall-cling)
    • Revive a teammate.
    • Start killing with a different weapon.
      • Additional multiplier if you kill with an amp.
    • Use a Warframe/Operator power that you haven't used recently.
    • Do anything else that can be construed as "dramatic" or "ninja-like".
  • You can decrease this multiplier if you:
    • Trigger an "ability overuse" cooldown.

 

Just a quick thought. And now, back to the memes:

[Harestation]

Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Aidan a dit :

An interesting idea Tenno! We are currently working on removing Khora from the Elite Sanctuary Onslaught drop tables in order to replace her with some Radiant Axi Relics. We still want to maintain the challenge/rarity of Vandal parts but agree that maybe the reward double dip with Khora was a bit much. Thanks for the feedback!

I'll be more than happy to potentially get axi in there o/.

[tifanator]

If I hear "focus boon," "arcade style," or "bite-sized" one more time I'm gonna lose my mind

[DanteBoi]

Just make it so we can do it solo... so far i can get max zone 15 and then enemy spawns are just just too slow. This goes for both elite and normal onslaught, its just stupid how much you have to cheese to get to zone 15 solo.... You were supposed to make it "arcady" and not "tryharding", lower efficiency drain for solo players ...

[mrtouchngo]

Why not give us an actual endlessly scaling mode with scaling rewards? Players have been clamoring for that for years now.

Diablo 3's Greater Rifts are super fun. Onslaught has been fun so far but I've found myself frustrated by 1) lack of scaling rewards - so I have no incentive to do any more than one full rotation - and 2) getting kicked out when enemies are getting tough but not tough enough that I'm actually struggling. Efficiency runs down far too quickly. Even if you are killing like a madman, you probably won't get super far without an AoE frame, which is a huge bummer IMO.

Heck, you could make the normal Onslaught actually endless with no efficiency and transition the drop tables to pull from Elite Onslaught as zones progress. I don't think there is even a scoreboard for that mode currently, so why bother forcing us out?

[Hixlysss]

Thinking on it some more, due to the popularity of my post, I figured i'd post a bit further on the idea.

Someone made the comment of "diablo rifts", so how about this idea, the higher efficiency decreases the duration until the portal spawning. Kill enemies to make portal spawn faster, to get further into the rifts. No more "need to kill just to get past". Have the efficiency stimuli provide a boost to your efficiency gains for a limited time(think focus booster, but for efficiency.) So you kill enemies quickly + boosters = like 30 seconds before the portal opens and you go forward. Combine this with getting less to no boosters the further in you go, as well as increased enemy difficulty, and suddenly you have a right proper challenge. How high can your score get? how far can you go and how quickly?

The current system of "kill enemies to keep from failing before the portal opens" was entertaining at first, but it just trails off and becomes stupidly difficult way too quick, like the enemies aren't spawning fast enough to keep up with the efficiency drain. I shouldn't be denied being able to get further because of the game mode, it should be my own fault not because the game mode is like "Nah, enemies give you 1% efficiency now and don't spawn fast enough for you prevent loss of efficiency, you will lose now." instead it should be like "Oh, you're on zone 18? Well let's throw 20 leech eximus at you and see how you perform with no energy, ta ta, have fun!"

[Doc-Orange]

Why are you ruining the most fun gamemode since years with bad game design decision. I really want a challenging gamemode but I want to fight against enemies not against an meaningless efficiency drain. 

I really cannot believe that you are so far away from the current playersbase. We need a kind of endgame!

Look at the answers on this thread. Is there even one positive one?

[Renzo]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Enemy scaling is broken. If things felt too easy compared to normal-gameplay, it's because they are. Take a look at the way an Infested Charger's health behaves - this discrepancy applies to all enemies, not just the Charger!:

 

Fix it. Give us strong enemies to shoot at. The kind of enemies that will wreck you if you go in half-assed.

I guess I am too late though as the damage appears to have been done already, and apparently you did not listen to the people voicing their concerns in this thread. I just hope that at some point you will learn to really listen to people and think for a little moment before doing your changes.

 

EDIT: It would appear I judged the changes too hastily. The difficulty level is actually quite fine and the enemies are not complete pussies compared to what they used to be, so this is in fact a good thing. I will, however, still disagree completely with the efficiency change as it is absolutely not needed.

[vid23]

It was really obvious that they were far weaker than they actully supposed to be, kinda sad to see their level being lowered, it means less focus, guess im just going back to the good old stealth focus farm with Equinox, and please for the love of god, dont touch the efficancy, dont make it decrease even more, its alredy hard to sustain it without cheesy builds, either because the portal or the spawn, but i alredy can see atleast 3 equinox in every single run(which is not bad but pretty boring)

[lucho8908]

I hope we can keep capping the daily focus on Sanctuary Onslaught. I really enjoy this mode and personally dislike de Adaro focus farming. 

I hope for the best .

[MunsuLight]

And you rolled the changes..  Without even listening to 10 pages of Negatives Feedback in here .. 

I thought someday I would have bought plat to support this wonderful game .. But a company not listening to his players dont need my money it seems 

EDIt : I dont want to bash you .. But I was a little bit frustrated of everything proposed.. and still is .. But the point remains .. You rushed these changes .. I will one day give you money for sure .. But when you are frustrated you say stupid things

 

[(PSN)WeeMalk5]

Aw man, Solo Elite is much more difficult now. I just got rekt. RIP solo for scrubs like me.

[-skimmer-]

2 hours ago, Mudfam said:

FFS DE, learn what "difficulty" and "challenge" means already!

All you ever do is add artificial difficulty, which is a BAD thing, FYI.

You did the same thing with the Tridolons, you ruined a perfectly decent boss fight (Teralyst) by introducing some 100% artificial difficulty (and awful screen clutter) , enforcing an even stricter meta and ruining any action / skill gameplay elements.

 

Edit, to be clear: glad you're fixing enemy scaling, but don't lower the levels, this is elite mode, remember? Most importantly though, don't make efficiency even more of an artificial barrier! Just why? So we can repeat zone 1-8 again and again instead of having some fun for once? We don't even get scaling rewards. If the issue is focus gains, it's capped super fast anyway. Just what..?!

How is efficiency an artificial barrier when enemy levels stopped being any kind of barrier at all?

The onslaught games are supposed to be short. If the main difficulty barrier was supposed to be enemy levels, we would be in there for hours...

...which is why we have efficiency to fight against instead.