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[DE]Rebecca

Sanctuary Onslaught: Difficulty Changes!

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honestly the changes shouldn't be the difficulty of enemies. it should be managing efficiency. I think at most point gaining efficiency is the big elephant in the room. I would suggest best thing to do is put the efficiency nodes on a timer rather then fixed spawns. say like 1 node appears randomly on a fixed timer after 2 mins or whatever timer works [maybe killing a boss priority enemy that appears every 5 waves can grant 2x efficiency per node]. it cannot be detected by loot radar and should spawn in random areas some hard to reach for the challenge. teams would have to work together to fight hordes and hunt for these nodes to keep efficiency up. I think this might be more of a fare way of progression. 

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10 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Hey, I'm not defending DE's actions, I just was retorting your point that DE is unaware. They are aware and a point could be argued that it makes no action (until Onslaught) just that much worse.

Guess i misinterpreted that, kind of born from weariness and frustration, my bad

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You guys are going the wrong way on this... people are finally happy when it comes to focus and you are intentionally doing something that makes your player base unhappy.  Upsetting your customer base is generally a bad idea for any company.

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So instead of just making the enemies scale correctly they're going to gut the focus gain by decreasing their levels, and at the same time increase the efficiency drain making it harder to get very far, while ALSO having the crippling bugs that still plague the mode.

Sounds sensible to me.

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Damage on high level enemies needs changed. I dont want to get hit by 2-3 hit scan shots and die on half the warframes..

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50 minutes ago, Asdryu said:

When people will learn to use corrosive projection for once...
"physique" there are still people using this....

ya but thats basically using CP as a bandaid...its no differet than covert lethality on daggers. basically a neseccity at a certain point.

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Please reconsider this Efficiency change. I want to stay as long as i can handle the enemies, and then eventually be taken down by actually tough enemies, not by timer that forces me out because i got map with bad spawn rate or increasing Efficiency drain.

Also, would be cool if captura scenes could only drop once. I don't need hundreds of kuva fortress captura scenes.

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5 minutes ago, Retequizzle said:

I don't get why DE is so focused on "bite-sized, arcade-style" gameplay for Onslaught when there's ample demand for - as well as the ability to provide - Endurance-based gameplay alongside of the arcade styling.

Radical suggestion, but why don't we have an ''Elite'' mode for those people with similar rewards so that no one is missing out.

We have a casual mode for casual players who want a bite sized bit of fun, and a hardcore mode for people to push themselves. Give it a leaderboard as well, so that the people pushing themselves can have a sense of pride and accomplishment at the end of it.

Hmmm... :clem:

 

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They dont want people to push themselves.. They want us to be defeated by a timer .. and not by the enemies .. If they make the scaling as the enemies outside of the sanctuary are .. I'm pretty sure just that is enough for a lot of players to not be able to push through higher zone just because of the raw damage and EHP enemies have at this point even with the Efficiency as it is .. 

Only endurance runners could probably do it .. because they already know how to cheese high level enemies

But this is just the typical dumbing down and casualiazing the game ..  Elite is supposed to be "ELITE" .. 

And I'm happy to see I wasn't going crazy about enemies being paper even at level 160+ when in simulacrum they were a lot harder

Edited by MunsuLight
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1 час назад, [DE]Rebecca сказал:

Sanctuary Onslaught is where we play by Simaris' rules. You already know by now the jist of our Khora plans, but we also have to do some tweaks to Onslaught.

Here's what we're doing with ELITE Sanctuary Onslaught!

Our plans with this are a bit tougher to map out succinctly because the mode still needs attention to fixes. However, some data has come back that we don't want to keep to ourselves.

Enemy scaling is broken. If things felt too easy compared to normal-gameplay, it's because they are. Take a look at the way an Infested Charger's health behaves - this discrepancy applies to all enemies, not just the Charger!:
SCALING.png

This is semi-complicated to fix, because in a way this has led to hollow gains - enemies are providing significantly more Affinity (and thus, Focus) but in reality they are much weaker than they should be. To maintain the current difficulty of the mission type as best we can, we will have to lower enemy levels, which will impact Focus gains. We absolutely intend on this mode still being a Focus boon, and playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception).

We understand the importance of reaching Zone 8, and will tweak numbers carefully to ensure that mark is still reachable before enemy difficulty is too high. But as a mode intended to offer bite-sized “arcade style” type gameplay, we are adjusting the later stages to further limit run duration: Efficiency Stimuli will no longer appear past Zone 15, and Efficiency drain reaches 10x normal rate by Zone 20, instead of capping at 6x.

Leaderboards will also be completely reset soon as we continue to fix up the issues and they won't see a real role until we're ready.

The Hotfix notes (either today or tomorrow) will have full details this is just a TLDR!
TL;DR That enemy scaling is broken and difficulty changes will follow!

P.S I thought I was actually really good at making builds, but sometimes, the scaling is just simply not working.

We need scaling rewards or else staying more than 8 waves is pointless

Edited by ---UMBRA---
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well folks, tis just become another grind spot rather than something competitive.

(pfft Dark Sector Conflict replacement they said, ahahah)

Edited by Xsoskeleton
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And here I wanted difficulty increased and efficiency drain lowered. The first few zones are too easy and the later zones are pointless with such high efficiency drain.

Instead got increased efficiency drain and lowered focus gain. Neither of which anyone was asking for.

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A lot of enemy spawns on certain tilesets do have to be adressed. Reaching currently zone 16 is kinda impossible especially because of zone 15 only spawning ancients and even if you instakill them, they're still spawning too slow. Also in previous zones some poor enemy spawns have been noticed in Elite Sanctuary in this update...

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15 minutes ago, ZiG.y said:

And here I wanted difficulty increased and efficiency drain lowered. The first few zones are too easy and the later zones are pointless with such high efficiency drain.

Instead got increased efficiency drain and lowered focus gain. Neither of which anyone was asking for.

I mean, arguably for the first full rotation that's what you have gotten.

Instead of having efficiency capping at 6x at I believe zone 6 it'll only be 3x at that point, and you'll be fighting enemies with almost 5x as much health. It's when you try and go for a full second rotation that it'll hit you, you'll have to deal with an 8x efficiency drain just to get through that second rotation, and if spawns are struggling to keep us afloat at 6x then 8x is not happening, at all. 

Wait no, I take it back.

They're reducing the enemy levels? I thought they were just going to increase the health to what it should be...

Edited by DeMonkey
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Players: Hey guys! finally, a mode where we can get decent amounts of focus!

DE: Sorry that was a bug no fun focus allowed. 

Edited by ShinyNautili
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Remember that we got this mode as replacement to dark sector conflict. Yes, i said replacement, its not the same thing, not even close. Even though DE said it was what Dark Sector has become.

And not even a week after release, it got a fun-nerf.

Edited by Xsoskeleton
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I have to say the idea of ramping up efficiency even more is daft, if anything - remove it entirely.

all the efficiency system has done is make what could be an enjoyable game mode into a complete meta cheese grind. People take what can clear the waves and keep the efficiency up as high as possible - not frames or weapons they enjoy. As said earlier - i can see alot of enjoyment in this game mode, its fun to go up against ever increasingly powerful mobs and see'ing how far you can push your favourite frames/weapons....but thats just it, as it currently stand the efficiency element breaks this and forces you to take not what you enjoy, but what clears the most efficiently regardless of enjoyment.

 

Edited by Soridian
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Not sure if blindly optimistic or out of touch with the community. 

But hey, I expect this post to be ignored. Do your own thing I guess. 

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2 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Not sure if blindly optimistic or out of touch with the community. 

that or the whole trigger-inducing changes is a bait to get a good amount of feedbacks

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20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Radical suggestion, but why don't we have an ''Elite'' mode for those people with similar rewards so that no one is missing out.

We have a casual mode for casual players who want a bite sized bit of fun, and a hardcore mode for people to push themselves. Give it a leaderboard as well, so that the people pushing themselves can have a sense of pride and accomplishment at the end of it.

Hmmm... :clem:

 

I see what you did there XD

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il y a une heure, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

Sanctuary Onslaught is where we play by Simaris' rules. You already know by now the jist of our Khora plans, but we also have to do some tweaks to Onslaught.

So if it's simaris rule, then scaling shouldn't follow, wich also mean focus gain rule shouldn't follow. The treatment you are giving is the DE rule, not simaris rule.

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I think you should raise enemy health instead and a make efficiency drop slower. I live sanctuary onslaught but it's not fun when every enemy is 1 hit with every trash weapon.

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So Sanctuary comes out and Pablo offers a challenge to however can get to round 20. One week later DE make it impossible to make past round 15.

People complain that efficiency runs out too fast and spawns are broken and DE decides to further increase the efficiency drain.

All this while enemy damage past round 8 kills anything that is not Nidus, Inaros or an invisible frame.

Logic. 

 

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What if rotations were A-B-C instead of A-A-B-C? It certainly wouldn't break the proportion wanted for the rewards, and it motivates the players to go a little further.

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Just now, Polterghozt said:

What if rotations were A-B-C instead of A-A-B-C? It certainly wouldn't break the proportion wanted for the rewards, and it motivates the players to go a little further.

or better, make each zone in elite drops something, not rotation drop given each 2nd zone

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