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[DE]Rebecca

Sanctuary Onslaught: Difficulty Changes!

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Hold on, why are we adjusting the enemy level? Shouldn't we be adjusting the health value to match the enemy level? This game mode is supposed to be hard, right? Just make the difficulty match the level designation so that players can actually get the sense of endgame they have been looking for. It's going to be such a shame if all that we're really getting with this change is a net loss of affinity and having to wait longer for the enemies to scale to 100+.

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So, if I understand it correctly DE makes the mode harder without fixing it's problems (of course these problems come from normal gamplay; e.g. amor scaling, no incentive to go longer than one full rotation).

Seems legit...

The number one problem - apart from spawn issues and some remaining cases of crashes and failing host migrations - are the bs rewards. I mean we have so many places to get endo and relics. Flooding the drop table with these items in EVERY rotation is absurd. It would have been a great opportunity to put e.g. some cosmetics into the drop tables (I don't consider absurd quantities of photora scenes as cosmetics).

So please DE put some interesting rewards in there that keep us playing the mode. Otherwise I see the same destiny for sanctuary like for defection (or is anybody playing it after getting the harrow part?)

Edited by Automatix0042
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You people are complaining about DE limiting for how long you can do SO and ESO, in the meanwhile I can't ever get past zone 10 without half the team or host crashing. :sadcry:

Maybe it's just a secret tactic named "balancing is faster than fixing all those bugs".

Edited by Bezixx

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How are you guys already thinking about nerfs when the gamemode isn't even done being hotfixed?

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Now while I do not necessarily mind the health of the Onslaught enemies being adjusted, the general effect of these changes seems to be one that is going to more forcefully necessitate a meta to proceed than is currently required. Since, if memory serves, this mode is intended to be a sort of Endgame, the existence of Meta is similar to that of other games in that there will always be a "Best" way to attend to a situation. However, the compounded changes of more durable enemies and a more quickly depreciating efficiency timer gives the gut impression that the pool of what is reasonable to actually continue on to where things become "difficult" will shrink dramatically.

I wholly support making the mode more difficult, but only if that is through actual difficulty and not an artificial creation tied to an absurd drop in efficiency that must still contest with the fact that on some tiles enemy spawns are absolutely terrible. Getting a bad tile now can already be dangerous to a run. But with these changes? Something like that will absolutely end the run, likely even with what have come to be the meta frames.

While efficiency should remain a factor, it should not be what, in the end, defines whether or not a run continues onwards. Perhaps adjusting the enemies first and collecting some data from that prior to instituting another monumental change simultaneously would be more beneficial as it allows for the community to take steps towards one change rather than many at once.

There will always be people that are capable of attending to whatever changes will be made, however, whether or not they do so happily is another matter. Us vets will find one way or another to attend to the changes that are made. How much we enjoy the mode after the fact though will be directly tied to whether or not we are able to challenge ourselves with our preferred Frames and weapons, or whether we are relegated to treating this like just another farming node that is only worth the time invested with a specific set of Frames and weapons.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

Hold on, why are we adjusting the enemy level? Shouldn't we be adjusting the health value to match the enemy level? This game mode is supposed to be hard, right? Just make the difficulty match the level designation so that players can actually get the sense of endgame they have been looking for. It's going to be such a shame if all that we're really getting with this change is a net loss of affinity and having to wait longer for the enemies to scale to 100+.

That's what I assumed it would be. Reducing the enemy level is so counter intuitive that it simply didn't cross my mind until someone mentioned it to me.

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4 minutes ago, Bezixx said:

You people are complaining about DE limiting for how long you can do SO and ESO, in the meanwhile I can't ever get past zone 10 without half the team or host crashing. :sadcry:

Maybe it's just a secret tactic named "it's faster than fixing all those bugs".

Oh no, we're complaining about that too Tenno. We're teed off that they've ignored fixing those bugs and want to implement these "changes" to the game mode.

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I... I can't describe how I feel about this. I guess we can't really have fun and rewarding things then, right?
I don't understand how DE's decisions work. Well, I'll just hope for the best.

Thank you, DE.

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il y a 22 minutes, [DE]Aidan a dit :

An interesting idea Tenno! We are currently working on removing Khora from the Elite Sanctuary Onslaught drop tables in order to replace her with some Radiant Axi Relics. We still want to maintain the challenge/rarity of Vandal parts but agree that maybe the reward double dip with Khora was a bit much. Thanks for the feedback!

Nothing else from now 6 pages of underwhelming and negatives feedback ..

I would love to have higher drop chances for Khora on normal if she isn't there for Elite, but please take in consideration everything said in this thread and not one comment in a sea of others

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Wait, I don't understand. Why the focus nerf? Was there seriously someone who was salty that Adaro wasn't the king of farming anymore? Did anyone actually find that fun--at least, more fun than what we have here with onslaught? Yeah, there are bugs, and playing in public games has a huge risk of you losing all your stuff via host migration (yes, that problem still persists after yesterday's hotfixes). But you went from literally having two (maybe three) viable warframes that ran around with an atterax or polearm spamming maiming strike on Adaro to a plethora of options. Sure, there were still meta builds and certain setups that excelled, but I'd take over Adaro any day.

How is the justification of "Well, it's better than anything other than Adaro!" a good one? If you nerfed both onslaught modes down to 20k/40k focus, that would *still* be be better than other options with the exception of Eidolon/Adaro--because you get diddly squat just playing the game "normally".

Seriously, what's the issue here? Was there some monetary lost here? People suddenly weren't zipping their Visa's in order to procure the needed platinum to buy Maiming Strike off others? I know, I know that sounds incredibly rude and condescending but seriously--what's the issue? Stretching the focus farm cap isn't what I'd consider content and certainly doesn't equal fun. For once, focus farming felt like something that I could do--have fun in (even despite all the frustrations of losing rewards in pubs over the weekend) and I finally could cap my daily limit without massive boredom or misery.

Focus cap is 250,000 a day. It's what, like 9,000,000 to cap just one tree? Even if you capped it every day within 10 minutes, this process isn't going to go any faster, so why make it more painful? 

Please, reconsider this nerf before it goes live.

Edited by Hayde615
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This is literally the exact opposite of what we wanted. We wanted the enemy difficulty to be brought up to the proper level and the efficiency drain made more reasonable.

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While i appreciate enemies having the stats they should for the level the show, i'd rather dont add more limitations for the sake of it, adding a soft-cap on a supposedly semi-competitive endless mode is agaisnt the idea of the mode itself, let people do as long as they can, with only fixing the stats the average of zones will go down in the first place, add less efficiency and going into the 20th zone is but a dream unless every single zone spawns for the perfect cheese.

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Lol does DE actually play test their game? I'm baffled by how you'd come to the conclusion that the efficiency needs to be even more extreme!  It's literally the polar opposite of what's required to redeem this game mode. That's not even taking into account the buggy mess spawn rates are currently.

Like others have mentioned previously, you obviously don't want players to go beyond the zone 8 barrier. Just hard cap it and save everyone the frustration of attempting to go further. This is ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

-snip-

and playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception). 

-snip-

3

If the focus farm on Elite Onslaught is weak, then people will not do it. In devstreams you have said that this will be a legitimate focus farm, but you are not actually attracting people to do their farming in EO. There is no reason a person would spend all that time in EO rolling the netcode dice if they can just go to an exterminate and stealth kill for a better focus farm. If you make this change EO will be a flash in the pan and there will still be minmaxed focus farming.

I wish we knew where/who these decisions are coming from. It seems like a lot of backtracks and contradictions from DE about this stuff. 

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1 minute ago, Snake_Oil said:

This is literally the exact opposite of what we wanted. We wanted the enemy difficulty to be brought up to the proper level and the efficiency drain made more reasonable.

This.

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What I liked about this mode is that with a lower eff. drain it means you can bring the frame you want to do the first 1-8 zones.
I hope for zones 1-8 the xp/focus stays the same.
After 8 zones there isn't much point so I don't mind if it takes meta builds to go crazy far.

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i don't care about enemy scale at all, what i care is spawn rate and map layout, some map is too big and some is too litter spawn rate of enemy. One more thing, what about Efficiency rate in solo mode? I'm just casting skill and it drop about 5% in zone 6 and my kill just barely hold the efficiency NOT TO DROP.

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good thing I got past wave 20 on elite while i could this seems like it will make that extremely difficult!

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If you are going to tweak the enemy level then you have to make then spawn quickly, we can't pass zone 'x' if we don't have enough mobs to get efficiency.

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Most groups are already doing 8 and out, why are you so against anything going for a long time? Really been enjoying this gamemode so far and really hope you're not going to ruin it. Please don't touch the efficiency drain, will make going public absolutely impossible, not all of us have friends who play this game to make coordinated teams with...

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4 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

An interesting idea Tenno! We are currently working on removing Khora from the Elite Sanctuary Onslaught drop tables in order to replace her with some Radiant Axi Relics. We still want to maintain the challenge/rarity of Vandal parts but agree that maybe the reward double dip with Khora was a bit much. Thanks for the feedback!

 

Why not any of the below items?

  • Arcanes (So they are no longer locked behind one mode)
  • Kuva
  • Nitain Extract
  • Forma
  • Orokin Catalyst
  • Orokin Reactor

 

Each of those would actually give a reason to go back to Onslaught instead of just more relic fodder.

Edited by Sean
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2 hours ago, Emperrier said:

But will the rewards get better

 

Like ok, you're going to preserve difficulty up until zone 8... Will there be a reason provided for me to be passing zone 8? Because otherwise this fix seems purely academic.

sure, having fun

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Making the enemy level easier but also requiring faster efficiency is just going to promote really terrible AoE damage meta requirements.

And people are already complaining that it's too meta driven.

Edited by (PS4)Jedi_Arts_
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