Sanctuary Onslaught: Difficulty Changes!

[Chappie]

Are people overstating the focus gain changes?   If you look at the affinity vs level scaling...we aren't getting hammered that bad.  

[nickcurcurato]

Look, I don't know what the gains are gonna look like until all of your numbers are plugged in but your high-level proposition seems bad. So you're "fixing" scaling therefore increasing time to kill but also increasing the rate at which efficiency degrades. Why create an endless mode to begin with? Why don't you think people are going past round 8? The rewards themselves are the issue here. Now you want people to work harder for the same - or lesser, as is the case with focus gains - rewards?

Maybe the rotation system is the issue? You have scaling rewards up to a point. Why go to round 16 when you can reset and run the AABC rotation at a lower level? It seems to be a problem with every endless game mode the game has. There is no persistent reward scaling outside of bumping relic refinement levels in the other modes. Maybe people would be willing to push to round 16 and beyond if they had a better chance of getting that Lato Vandal part instead of another Neo M1, radded or not. 

I get that you were originally planning to release a few more Peculiars with this mode and needed to replace those with something else. Relics seem to be the go-to drops but you needed to make them better than the normal mode. Flooding inventories with radded relics decreases the rarity of those gold rewards. I think the current drop tables are underwhelming for this mode and could have dramatic repercussions on the in-game economy as a whole.

[NeloAngelicus]

Why you want to turn everything into a roulette grindfest? the users just want to have fun.

[paul5473]

I must ask DE and please don't take this the wrong way but do the QA testers actually test anything? I'm asking as surely bugs and problems like this would be picked up very quickly?

[taiiat]

it makes sense on paper - but unless Enemy Spawns are made consistent in each Tile and you increase Enemy Spawns even further by like another 80%... not really going to work.
may even need to go to actually Interception v1 Spawn rates(infinite Enemies/second).
as it is you have a Gamemode that fully encourages what Digital Extremes is always openly against - though currently Players can sortof manage without it.

if you don't want the Gamemode to be Endless, then don't make it Endless. making it further encourage exactly what you say you don't want while... a classic expectation from the game which has been doing just that (punishing Players for not idling in some way and/or doing what Digital Extremes says they don't like) for a few years now, that doesn't mean more of it makes any sense to me.

still missing the golden rule of Gameplay balance related things - if you want someone to do something or not to do something, you need to make what you want someone to do the most efficient way to do it. this has yet to be done in the history of Warframe and as such nothing has been changed about any exploit or thing Digital Extremes dislikes that has ever been present in the game(that affects general Gameplay).
if you don't make what you want to happen the most efficient way to do something, then nothing will ever change because what you don't want is still better than what you do want.
it's funny, people trying to bring new science to get used by businesses know this - if their new technology isn't profitable to do vs the way they're already doing something, then it doesn't matter because there's no reason to adopt that technology.
i don't get why you expect something to change when you don't change anything. each time that what you don't want is more efficient (every single time generally), it is the same situation as the last time. if you don't change anything, remember expecting a different outcome is the textbook definition of insanity.

 

idunno i was sorta that that my problem of being forced to play Lv1 Missions to get the Keys that i need to get Prime __, and that getting Traces without spending Keys was required to be Solo only - had been addressed in some way - Onslaught covers both of those atm, as a Veteran i now have something i can do so i don't have to be forced to AFK in Lv1 Missions to get some of the Rewards that all Players need.
but uh maybe Onslaught isn't supposed to answer those Veteran questions. maybe it isn't supposed to answer any Veteran questions at all. if so, what Gameplay questions is it supposed to answer?

[DrLego]

I knew something was wrong about how easy it was to level things up, focus included. Not to mention, you could tell the enemies were off right at the start by how easy they were to kill even in further waves.

I think that if you're going on this route, you'll need to be mindful of certain warframes that the community would deem disadvantageous for onslaught, and therefore forcing fellow players to use specific warframes. This is already done for eidolon hunts, but I don't want to see that happen with onslaught.

[PropiPanda]

1.  Maybe the enemie scaling in Onslaught is good and its bad in the rest of the game? And yes it is! Look at the armor scaling its so damn ridiculous how this works. Maybe you fix that in the first place.
2. You add a nice new mission(with alot of BUGS) where you can Farm Focus they way it should be everywhere(compared to the mission level) and now you have the great idea to nerf this.
3. Efficiency drain change. Its stupid, nothing else to say.
4. If you want a new Lunaro, go for it.

 

 

[StickyBaseline]

What? That's a slap in the face to everyone. Are you even playing this gamemode? Now it'll be near impossible to progress past round 8 and there's gonna be even less incentive to play it. 

Do something helpful for the players like fixing the awful bugs for it instead of slapping us on the fingers for liking this mew gamemode. 

[OniDax]

Doesn't this sort of encourage cheesing at higher levels? I mean, I understand the point is to increase difficulty as the zones increase, but given that your ability to move through them depends on your loadout, at high zone levels, you can only bring certain frames and weapons - those that can cheese through stuff.

[WinterSaber]

I dont like be squished by timer and "oxygen" both so I dont like this mindless Onslaught at all.
Will get frame, weapons and forget this place forever.

[ParadiseRegained]

Okay DE, I understand that the enemy scaling thing is broken, but get this... maybe it's fine. As someone whose played Warframe for 5 years on and off I've never really been here for the release of a game mode and been like "this is awesome" until I played Onslaught. The horde type gameplay felt like a REAL horde style game, the enemy spawns finally felt like they were enough to keep me occupied and for once I felt like the game was actively trying to kill me. I would also like to point out that the discrepancy between Khora parts dropping and the rate we get rewards is super borked, if you lower the amount of waves we can farm at a time it will make her even MORE of a pain for new players and veterans alike. I honestly don't think that Onslaught deserves these "changes" and that you should take a look at transferring Onslaught spawn rates into the rest of the game.

[RadYogh]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

limit run duration

Why?! Just why?

Why you don't want to let ppl stay as long as they can keep killing enemies somewhat fast?

At least give some decent rewards then, and fix mob spawns... And if you realy wanna limit run duration and don't care about players - at least do that by increasing lvling. As a person who did 100+ waves axi defense, I can tell that 1000+ lvl mobs can be hard to kill even for OP weapons with multiplied damage buffs. (proofs are under spoiler below)

Spoiler

1:
https://i.imgur.com/y540mhg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Ws4Zjlv.jpg

2:
https://i.imgur.com/yY7WxD8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2ryvWR5.jpg

 

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is semi-complicated to fix, because in a way this has led to hollow gains - enemies are providing significantly more Affinity (and thus, Focus) but in reality they are much weaker than they should be. To maintain the current difficulty of the mission type as best we can, we will have to lower enemy levels, which will impact Focus gains. We absolutely intend on this mode still being a Focus boon, and playtesting shows that gains are still enormous compared to normal play elsewhere (with Adaro strategies being the exception).

So in short it will become pointless to play before it even gets to us, and focus will lack a decent way to be farmed (that integrates well with standard play) once again. I think I speak for all casual gamers when I say that unless focus gains become more easily obtainable in the casual missions, it will never be a priority of how we play the game. I rather exploit the broken equinox meta for 30 minutes a day (when I'm lucky enough to get 30 minutes) than constantly going out of my way to get focus orbs just to have all enemies suddenly disappear when I do. 

Sorry DE. I love you, but man I "hate" focus farming.  

[fellow1]

I KNEW IT! I felt like sortie last mission was tougher than 30 min in this new game mode.

[lanrutcon66]

Wow.

New game mode isn't even out for a week and DE have already found a way to kill it.

Run something else, sell rewards for plat, buy Khora, forget Onslaught exists.

[sleepychewbacca]

34 minutes ago, RaikasFire said:

You're kidding right... All the negative feedback on these potential changes in this post and this is the one DE chooses to respond to? 5 pages of overwhelmingly negative responses, and this is what we get? 

You have to wait for them to say "we'll address this in our Devstream", then repeat the statement they've said here while everyone sits uncomfortably for a minute or so, before they then try to distract everyone by showing a concept for an idea they have that's not even ready to be launched in game. 

Don't like this change we've made? Here, look at this new shiny we have for you. 

[sixmille]

Why don't you just increase the difficulty? It's supposed to be "elite" not "a walk in the park" anyway.

[RadYogh]

1 minute ago, thefellowone said:

I KNEW IT! I felt like sortie last mission was tougher than 30 min in this new game mode.

That was kinda obvious after a few runs. I thought it's a speacial feature of this game mode, since mobs don't have any drop... and there is no credit reward.

[Duality52]

Not to be rude, but are you guys willing to nerf the Focus/Affinity Gain and the Efficiency (solo players will suffer even more) over:

• Rewards like improving Khora's drop chance (honestly even worse to farm than Ivara), Relic/Endo Dilution, Duplicate Captura, Vandal Chances, etc.
• Enemy Flow (they tend to stay at where they spawn. This gets worse with Eximus Grineer/Nullifiers grouping up more enemies on the other side of a large tileset).
• As others mentioned, horrible spawn rates as of the recently rotated EOS.

Please reconsider these changes as this is just ruining the incentive to do even ANY form of Sanctuary Onslaught.

[Mixota]

If you dont want it to be endless then just cap it, this efficiency crap makes the gamemode essentially RNG in regards to how far you'll get, you'll never be able to compare highscore from week to week because there'll be a week where the tiles makes getting past zone freaking 5 impossible, and then one week rngesus will be on drugs and we'll get easy tiles to 25.

Onslaught is really nice, but has a huge detriment in the way efficiency works, and instead of it being improved, its being made so much worse. Thankfully i can raid instea.... well then.

[Hayabusa97]

Nerfing Onslaught focus gains sounds like a terrible idea because not everyone wants to do Adaro or Tridolons to have focus gains that would be considered tolerable. Hell, nerfing those focus gains will ruin any incentive to get on the leaderboard even without going into how the efficiency gains will ensue that only cheese strats can get far.

[Nirrel]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

To maintain the current difficulty of the mission type as best we can, we will have to lower enemy levels, which will impact Focus gains

I seriously do not understand why the feedback forum even exist. People saying that Elite is too easy and the scaling is broken and you instead fixing it to make the enemies of the proper level you just leave it to it's sorry state but lower the gains on it? LOL.

Another slap in the face of your playerbase....Good job DE!

 

[NoRainNoRainbow]

Still no changes to Kuva Fortress rewards, despite all the complaining. You know if I spend 40 minutes there with a booster I can roll my riven 3 times... not worth it at all

[Callback]

56 minutes ago, [DE]Aidan said:

An interesting idea Tenno! We are currently working on removing Khora from the Elite Sanctuary Onslaught drop tables in order to replace her with some Radiant Axi Relics. We still want to maintain the challenge/rarity of Vandal parts but agree that maybe the reward double dip with Khora was a bit much. Thanks for the feedback!

I like the khora parts in elite just so that I don't have to farm both difficulties.  Since I am aiming for the vandals, being able to pick up khora on the side as I farm is nice.

 

If you really want to separate her as the normal reward and vandals as the elite, then at least fill the void left by her parts by increasing the vandal part odds.  Keep the "real reward" space on the table consistent.  People aren't in this for the relics, they're in it for the amazing focus gains and the rare prizes.

 

Speaking of amazing focus gains, why is the synthetic shard a rare drop on rotation B only?  Bumping down relic chances and adding shards to all 3 rotations (as common as endo maybe?  Multiple shards from B or C rotations?) would further increase the emphasis on focus.  Considering a successful tridolon run gives 155k overcap focus worth, a few scattered 5ks in onslaught wouldn't be out of place.

[leperkhaun]

So much for this being an endgame endless mode.