Sanctuary Onslaught: Difficulty Changes!

[Mama_Sasha]

Alot of people from waht i seen so far, are not very happy with the effeicency drain, and i can relate to their frustration. What i thought the gamemode was about, is for us veterans and really strong tenno to really test our power, but this efficecny situation prevents us to fully go out with that.

Making the enemies bulletsponges inst going to solve the problem. Sure it will make it more challanging and i enjoy such a thing, but if the efficecny inst changed to compliment it, then whats the point?

I say, the efficecny, while a neat idea, needs to be tweaked, and maybe adjusted depending on how you do in the mission.

An idea that you can do is to add challanges, similar to how challanges you get from the start of a mission wants yopu to do. Instead of exp, you can get efficecnchy if you do some sort of a challange, and not easy one mind you, but challanges that really tests you as a player, and makes it rewarding.

Jsut my side of the coin really.

[Damiv]

How about you leave it alone and fix the bugs? Your first fun game mode in years and now you want to take the only reward it had (focus) away. Crap decisions like this is why vets leave. 

[Fire2box]

you want to know how to make this mode interesting DE? 

 Disable all slide crits, no crit buffs from pets, no equinox maim trading, and any other OP/Meta frame here. It's just gonna be an very select meta otherwise and now there will be less reason for people to go beyond zone 8. 

[kotex073]

1 minute ago, Fire2box said:

you want to know how to make this mode interesting DE? 

 Disable all slide crits, no crit buffs from pets, no equinox maim trading, and any other OP/Meta frame here. It's just gonna be an very select meta otherwise and now there will be less reason for people to go beyond zone 8. 

8 pages of comments, you won having the dumbest thus far

[Fire2box]

2 minutes ago, leperkhaun said:

So much for this being an endgame endless mode.

I don't see how making it harder makes it less endgame. This is the hardest challenge we have in game thus far and increasing their HP just makes it more so. 

 

It's certainly going to make it less fun. 

[Fire2box]

Just now, kotex073 said:

8 pages of comments, you won having the dumbest thus far

not nearly as dumb as...  shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.  

[IMSOL_SoulReaper_Nasus]

No no no no, Rebecca go sit on the corner. We dont need scaling, or a harder unsustainable affinity. We need more spawns, higher challenge cuz lets face it. Everyone here can go in and run 8 zones and get out easy. If you want a arcade game then cap it to a zone. If you want it to be end game then make it endless, with rewards worth staying suchs times and make it sustainable, because getting to zone 17 or any zone that has a big map shreds your affinity % and thats us running with superframes. In general, fix bugs. fix poe and give us a better content, richer and fun. 

[kyori]

1 hour ago, Error989 said:

Can you just remove Khora drops from Elite? Regular mode drops parts at much higher chance so why have her in Elite? By removing her you'd be able to increase the chance Lato/Braton Vandal

You have to know by now that is to dilute the loot table. Just like Aiden said, even if they take out Khora's parts from elite, other things will replace those empty slots and the vandal parts will not have higher drop chances. This is all intended by the guy who planned out all the loot tables.

[ShinTechG]

1 minute ago, Fire2box said:

not nearly as dumb as...  shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.   shift, slide, E.  

Kotex073 is right though, your idea is far from a proper solution. The problem isn't the high damage of things like slide attacks and maim. The issue is not having enemies strong enough and working around Efficiency. OP things are overused because we are forced to, not because it's fun and want to use them all the time. 

[WotsOnSecond]

So what's the point of an endless mode that has no incentive to be endless? If you're really just going to get people to zone 8 and then make it crazy difficult, people will have no reason to continue after zone 8, even if the problems with the mode are fixed.

[Neightrix]

Increase their health to what it should be. Isn't the purpose of normal Onslaught to have the same mode with lower difficulty? One of the best if not THE best thing about Elite Onslaught is not needing to stay an hour in a mission just to have enemies present a threat. Don't ruin the currently best mode in the game over something petty like focus being too high, that's backwards development.

If we want the leaderboards to be meaningful, stop efficiency decay when the zone timer hits 00:00, or start loading the next zone much sooner. Currently, efficiency continues to decay while the next zone loads, with the portal appearing as soon as the player with the slowest PC loads the area. This can cause a distinct disadvantage, while up to 25% efficiency can be lost simply waiting for the game to continue.

[Fire2box]

2 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

Kotex073 is right though, your idea is far from a proper solution. The problem isn't the high damage of things like slide attacks and maim. The issue is not having enemies strong enough and working around Efficiency. OP things are overused because we are forced to, not because it's fun and want to use them all the time. 

then the solution is to either nerf those things or bring other things in line with them. Not force an meta. Rebecca saying "there will be an meta" to me is just DE saying "we've given up on trying to make everything or even most things fun to use." 

[DiscordSan]

I don't get what the goal is for this game mode.
As it stands I love playing the heck out of it, minus the game breaking bugs and losing some rewards, I genuinely enjoy it and it's a fun focus farm for me.

Why are you making it harder to farm the focus and why are you bringing down the enemy levels? I thought it's supposed to be elite?

[namos1223]

I lost a braton vandel barrel to a bug 

[IronKhagan]

Here I go again, giving you too much credit. You've turned a fight against actual tough enemies into a fight against the clock. What happened to the endgame challenge we were promised?

[Eldnacpeek]

5 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

What? Why? I mean i appreciate difficulty but not when i have to rely on RNG for that.

The problem outside of crashes and usual bugs were, that the efficiency drop was getting so high that you had to RELY on spawnkilling enemies with the most brutal cheese strats available. Furthermore, coupled with some enemy spawning delays and some not so optimal tiles, not even spawnkilling gets you far enough.

I find it lame, really lame, that people have to resort to such hard cheese in order to do more than just a single rotation. Where is the endless feel in it? Where is the actual DIFFICULTY in it? You don't lose because it's too hard or because the enemies outdamage or outtank you, no, you lose because the game literally FORCES you out at some point! And even earlier when you DON'T use instaspawnnuke strats!

It'd be way better to fix what is causing players to be able to spawnkill enemies (since it's obviously VERY cheap) and TONE DOWN the efficiency drop so you don't just get forced out no matter how good you play. But what you're doing seems to be quite the opposite of what was causing the problems, by making the efficiency drop even more brutal. Hell, i didn't even know it capped but i knew that at one point we got forced out due to not enough enemies spawning...

Please think about it more carefully. I really enjoy the concept and idea of this new game mode, i really do. And i really don't want to see this game mode die after people got their shiny loot out of it. It has potential, you just gotta make correct use of it :/

 

Agreed entirely. Sanctuary Onslaught is my current favorite thing to do in game since I lost interest in Eidolon hunting (still find it fun, but I'm just not doing it as frequently as I used to). Survival was my usual go-to for endless slaughter therapy, but Onslaught feels a lot better. With these proposed changes, I think I'm just going to stop playing it. I grew too used to the current state of the gamemode and enjoyed it a lot, that's my fault.

I can partially understand the intent behind the changes, but the way they look currently is stepping overboard.

[Fire2box]

1 minute ago, BienKupo said:

I don't get what the goal is for this game mode.
As it stands I love playing the heck out of it, minus the game breaking bugs and losing some rewards, I genuinely enjoy it and it's a fun focus farm for me.

Why are you making it harder to farm the focus and why are you bringing down the enemy levels? I thought it's supposed to be elite?

They can always buff the focus boost and it would be exactly the same, other then higher HP levels. If scaling wasn't matching everywhere else in game I think it should be fixed. As you said "I thought it's supposed to be elite?"

[Kylo.]

1 hour ago, [DE]Aidan said:

An interesting idea Tenno! We are currently working on removing Khora from the Elite Sanctuary Onslaught drop tables in order to replace her with some Radiant Axi Relics. We still want to maintain the challenge/rarity of Vandal parts but agree that maybe the reward double dip with Khora was a bit much. Thanks for the feedback!

That is a really good idea.

[ThomasBrody]

1 hour ago, ShinTechG said:

I have to partially disagree with this part only. There are a lot of mods, arcanes and other things that help with surviving way past zone 8 on any frame. Of course, more armored frames survive longer.  

Rage and Quick Thinking shouldn't be mandatory ,and even then still plenty of frames that die almost instantly. Volt with 4k overshields shouldnt die in zone 6 in 2 seconds that the enemies aren't cc'd in some way. Meanwhile Mesa is projectile immune pretty much and killing the whole screen with great scaling for her damage as well on the other end.

When you have armour mod, heath mod, shield mod, all maxed out, a frame shouldn't die in almost 3 bullets. and shouldnt have to rely on a "energy on damage, energy stops you from dying" gimmick bandaid mod set up.

In order to a lot of high level enemies, you have to be in line of sight, and they take more damage , So you end up killing the whole screen for a while then suddenly enemies dont die instantly and you get shot literally a few times and you realize the damage has been creeping up this whole time to insane levels. 

But several Warframes and set ups just completely negate this scaling , some into their favor, so technically things arent impossible and things never get changed because it's "possible", despite more than half the warframes and weapons being unviable by huge margins after a certain level.

[LazyButtons]

I'm baffled. Instead of fixing bugs, host migration issues, poor AI, poor pathfinding, poor spawns (Hellooo Drudges!) the developers are trying to make their new game mode less rewarding, less appealing, and more tedious. Without high daily focus gains, people simply won't play this game mode unless they want to farm Khora or Vandals.

It's going to be another dead, bland, boring grind, just like grinding Derelict for mutagen samples, grinding infested salvage for nidus or grinding deception for Harrow.

I simply can't comprehend why anyone would want to shoot themselves in the foot like this.

[Nykerios]

Reading over these changes, and.....

Why? I was legitimately excited for this game mode so I could push my gear to the limit to see how far I could go, and now I'll drop it like a sack of puppies and trade for the Braton Vandal parts because you don't want players to do that. I can understand (but not agree with) the changes to Focus gains, but the changes to make it nigh impossible to do long runs killed any interest I had in this game mode.

[Magneu]

Honestly, increasing efficiency drain just shouldn't exist. It should be a static drain, maybe at the speed of zone 4. With a static drain it actually becomes a mode dependent on being able to stand against high-leveled enemies, instead of abusing massive cheese strategies to kill enemies before they even become alerted once they spawn. Players will be able to fight until they are actually forced out by difficulty. Cheesers will continue to cheese, but at least it becomes feasible for non-cheesers to hit the second C rotation. It's insulting that I have frames that go toe-to-toe with level 200 enemies, but don't get to fight them because an arbitrary clock decided I wasn't killing fast enough (the required speed being killing with half a second of enemy spawn). This isn't challenging "elite" players, this is rewarding those who can exploit the game.

Stating that drain will increase all the way to zone 20 indicates that DE is only looking at the uber-cheese strategies and attempting to balance the gamemode around that, thereby shutting out any "normal" players (hell, or even anybody not abusing cheese) because as is, above 12-14 is only reliably achievable by cheese or getting really really really lucky with maps/spawns.

Instead of balancing around these cheese strategies, here's a thought; take a closer look at those strategies and bring them in-line with the rest of the game! Boom, now the mode can be balanced for the vast majority of players instead of cheesers. I could care less if cheesers get the top spots on the leaderboard, I want an endgame player to be able to hit zone 16 without stupid "strategies".

 

EDIT: You know what? Just get rid of efficiency drain entirely. Onslaught is fun because players get to fight huge amounts of (after hotfix) beefed up enemies. Onslaught is NOT fun when you see a timer tick down and can't do anything but make it decrease a little bit slower. That's just telling players "I know you're trying hard and your gear can obviously still cope with the enemies, but you lose cause lol".

[Casardis]

What's the idea for the efficiency drain being even more ludicrous? 

Not only does it discourage endurance run for a new fun mode that you've given to casual and veteran players (Elite), but you are essentially telling us how we should play that mode (something that you're often trying to strike balance with, and I understand that), limiting the potential FUN of that new ENDLESS mode. Additionally, this change will only further encourage cheese tactics that were already applied in the form of Equinox and Maiming Strike (especially the latter), yet those are fine but regular "fun" isn't?

Sorry for getting angry but this is, with all due respect, a bad decision almost in the likes of the previous Damage 2.5. Little to no community consideration was taken with this in my opinion.

EDIT: Please reconsider, maybe not with a complete revert, but just a more refined revision. It's okay not to take all feedback, since it's hard to pick them from a sea of angry cries, but the loud inconsiderate comments should not overshadow the ones who are constructive.

[UndPanzer]

This has to be a Joke, DE is sabotaging themselves now? The mode was perfect for farming but apparently DE hasn't learn anything from Draco, i'm Sorry but there is no way i'm playing this mode again after i pick up Khora

[ukhooligan]

2 hours ago, Hixlysss said:

IMO Elite mode the challenge should be the enemies themselves, not the efficiency counter...

Bang on.

Cmon DE this is so lazy. Just seems like you've screwed this mode up so bad that ya just gonna disable it

Roll the update back get rid of it and come back to us when ya have something that works.