Kril Confuses People

[Lumireaver]

It's because his life bar looks like this:

 

 

If it was more obvious that he couldn't be damaged except by sabotaging his suit, less people would be confused.

This could be accomplished by implementing something like any of these:

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2013 by Lumireaver

[-Kittens-]

Mr. Kril is all-terrain.

[ayliax]

I would love that. DE, think about this please.

[notlamprey]

I support this. I want to be able to see which players don't understand his mechanics yet, and which players are just shooting at heads until they're dead or out of ammo.

[Lumireaver]

Mr. Kril is all-terrain.

 

Manly diamond plate metal was the best way I could think of to get the idea across.

 

As long as it's visually different, anything could work. Even a green bar.

[GeneralArmchair]

I guess whatever needs to be done to satisfy the casuals.  It was glaringly obvious to me that he had an invulnerable state after only a few shots from my Hek and his backpack is a classic boss "THIS IS MY WEAK POINT!!! SHOOT HERE!!!!"

[JerichoFayne]

I think the health bar should just say "LOLNOPE."  That would get the point across better.

[litlit]

I guess whatever needs to be done to satisfy the casuals.  It was glaringly obvious to me that he had an invulnerable state after only a few shots from my Hek and his backpack is a classic boss "THIS IS MY WEAK POINT!!! SHOOT HERE!!!!"

I've lost count of how many people just never seem to get it.

 

I totally understand people emptying all their ammo into his invulnerability the first time around; almost everything other boss in the game is a boring bullet sponge, so it's reasonable for players new to the fight to expect the same.

 

But in some groups, even ones that ran the boss more than 5 times in a row, there were people who still didn't get that he's invulnerable during the first phase.

[Haldos]

I'm sort of torn because Kril's design of having a big red light on his back, a classic video game trait of the obvious weak spot. If we set aside the issue of color blind players for the moment, I find most can work out, that after shooting him on all sides, that the back is the only one to get a reaction.

 

Now, having said that it might be a nice addition if the Lotus included a hint about it in one of her transmissions. Something along the lines of "Krils Cryo pack is the source of his power but it's not as stable as it seems. Find a way to disrupt it." Not exactly spelling it out but giving a good hint.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Haldos

[notionphil]

The backpack has no visible reaction to being shot. Normally when you shoot the 'flashing boss weakspot' he recoils. Or at least the weakspot has its own health meter.

 

After fighing krill at least 10 times, I know that I have to shoot the backpack (or the hoses or something) to make him vulnerable...but I have NO idea WHEN to shoot the backpack, and when the backpack itself is invulnerable.

[Depar]

neat idea, here have my support

[Drasiel]

The health bar showing invulnerability would be a good thing. Especially considering aside from the Jackal there isn't any other bosses that require you hit a weak spot first.

 

The backpack has no visible reaction to being shot. Normally when you shoot the 'flashing boss weakspot' he recoils. Or at least the weakspot has its own health meter.

 

After fighing krill at least 10 times, I know that I have to shoot the backpack (or the hoses or something) to make him vulnerable...but I have NO idea WHEN to shoot the backpack, and when the backpack itself is invulnerable.

 

^this is exactly what I run up against the first time I fought him. He didn't seem to care at all where I was shooting him. On my third try I figured out if I shoot him in the back he'd become the fire monster faster. But it it was more luck than an "oh this seems to do something" moment. 

[Hayden11121]

I think the health bar should just say "LOLNOPE."  That would get the point across better.

I lol'ed.

[notionphil]

^this is exactly what I run up against the first time I fought him. He didn't seem to care at all where I was shooting him. On my third try I figured out if I shoot him in the back he'd become the fire monster faster. But it it was more luck than an "oh this seems to do something" moment. 

 

Yep. I know shooting him in the backpack is what causes him to change phase. But its not clear WHEN he changes phase, or when the backpack itself is ready to be shot again.

 

Phases are cool, but the overall communication of the phases is just unclear.

[Phatose]

Well, that is a pretty poorly signposted battle.

 

For example, when you first start shooting him in the body and see no damage markers, that should be clear.  So you start shooting him in the backpack, and you see damage numbers appear and eventually a tube breaks off.

 

This is a pretty clear sign "What you're doing is right, keep doing it".  But that's not the case at all.  Once you break one of the tubes, his backpack becomes invincible as well, and shooting it further won't do any more damage.  The visual indication of it a tube being broken actually suggests you should keep shooting it, and there's no real contra-indication that "Now it's broken enough, you have to stop and wait".

 

If, when you broke a tube, he were to put up a visible shield and roar, that would be at least a clear signal that it's time to stop doing what you're doing.

 

As I recall, you can't even reasonably rely on damage numbers, since I don't seem to actually see them in the final stage where you can actually hurt him.  Then tack on that he has a history of becoming glitched and just completely invincible.....yeah, it's gonna confuse people.

[Hayden11121]

Well, that is a pretty poorly signposted battle.

 

For example, when you first start shooting him in the body and see no damage markers, that should be clear.  So you start shooting him in the backpack, and you see damage numbers appear and eventually a tube breaks off.

 

This is a pretty clear sign "What you're doing is right, keep doing it".  But that's not the case at all.  Once you break one of the tubes, his backpack becomes invincible as well, and shooting it further won't do any more damage.  The visual indication of it a tube being broken actually suggests you should keep shooting it, and there's no real contra-indication that "Now it's broken enough, you have to stop and wait".

 

If, when you broke a tube, he were to put up a visible shield and roar, that would be at least a clear signal that it's time to stop doing what you're doing.

 

As I recall, you can't even reasonably rely on damage numbers, since I don't seem to actually see them in the final stage where you can actually hurt him.  Then tack on that he has a history of becoming glitched and just completely invincible.....yeah, it's gonna confuse people.

Sad thing that you don't see most damage numbers on bosses either way.

[Sumnus]

I agree with some of the above posts. If you're still making this mistake after the first run of him, it's on you, not on the game.

 

If this thread were saying "it takes too long to get him to do the vertical swing, rather than horizontal swings" or something to that effect, I could jump on board, but honestly, after the first run, you know the drill, and during the first run, something new is welcomed in a game full of bullet sponge bosses. No need to dumb it down, by the time you fight him you are well past the need of having a tutorial, especially when you have the forums, and such a well-built Wiki. Seriously, you don't need everything to be spelled out for you in game.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Sumnus

[OblivionNecroninja]

Personally, I think that Shoot backpack, wait for ice move, shoot frozen dude, shoot backpack is a boring sequence (in concept; I've never fought 'im).
It should be

Shoot Backpack, Punch Frozen Dude, Shoot Backpack Again

Shoot Backpack, Oh S#&$ Run He's Doing Something Nasty!, Shoot Backpack again

or

Shoot Backpack, RAWR FIRE TIME.

 

Basically, having to wait for him to do an ice move after you shoot the backpack just seems lame

[Lumireaver]

Sumnus, in the original Mega Man games, when Mega Man shoots at invulnerable enemies his bullets bounce off and players are given a squeaky auditory cue to inform them that they're not accomplishing anything. (Also the enemy doesn't flash, which normally happens when you land a hit.) With Kril, nothing is communicated. ...Subtle cues like what I'm suggesting are kind of a core element in game design. Wikis are not.

 

(Obvious cues, like having Lotus explain his weakness, also are not.)

[Drasiel]

Sumnus, in the original Mega Man games, when Mega Man shoots at invulnerable enemies his bullets bounce off and players are given a squeaky auditory cue to inform them that they're not accomplishing anything. (Also the enemy doesn't flash, which normally happens when you land a hit.) With Kril, nothing is communicated. ...Subtle cues like what I'm suggesting are kind of a core element in game design. Wikis are not.

 

(Obvious cues, like having Lotus explain his weakness, also are not.)

 

^ this one hundred times over. If you have to go the wiki or forums the game is not clearly expressing what it needs you to do to meet your goals.

 

We don't need lotus to shove the answers down our throat, but we do need a better mechanism to know when krill is invulnerable.

[notionphil]

I agree with some of the above posts. If you're still making this mistake after the first run of him, it's on you, not on the game.

 

If this thread were saying "it takes too long to get him to do the vertical swing, rather than horizontal swings" or something to that effect, I could jump on board, but honestly, after the first run, you know the drill, and during the first run, something new is welcomed in a game full of bullet sponge bosses. No need to dumb it down, by the time you fight him you are well past the need of having a tutorial, especially when you have the forums, and such a well-built Wiki. Seriously, you don't need everything to be spelled out for you in game.

 

ok, please explain how to kill him then.

 

how much damage do you need to do to the backpack to remove the hose? Does engaging him in melee so that he switches to hammer have any effect on his invuln states/backpack? how many times do you need to remove hose before he turns to fire? why are there 3 hoses, do they all eventually become detached?

[Sumnus]

Sumnus, in the original Mega Man games, when Mega Man shoots at invulnerable enemies his bullets bounce off and players are given a squeaky auditory cue to inform them that they're not accomplishing anything. (Also the enemy doesn't flash, which normally happens when you land a hit.) With Kril, nothing is communicated. ...Subtle cues like what I'm suggesting are kind of a core element in game design. Wikis are not.

 

(Obvious cues, like having Lotus explain his weakness, also are not.)

 

Firstly, you are comparing Warframe to a game made 26 years ago, (which in and of itself is an asinine comparison). Back before the internet was in the majority of households of the people playing games, and is guaranteed to be in the household (or wherever you are playing...technicalities in arguments, blah blah) of anyone playing Warframe. But since you mentioned not wanting to use the internet help (on a forum, mind you...your logic, not mine)...lets go through what the game does to help you as it stands right now.

 

You still are given large visual clues in Warframe. Your first big clue that you aren't dealing damage to Lech Kril is that you aren't seeing the damage numbers that you see any other time you hit something. I can watch my 3k damage crits on my Dread over the head of every shot, if I don't see that over an enemy, i didn't do damage. Common sense.

 

And just in case you need still another clue, you can watch the shield bar not go down at all when you're attacking him.

 

Lets give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have realized by now that you aren't dealing damage (which given your complaint, may be a generous assumption). Well, how do you kill him? I've used a mixture of my eyes, common sense, and deductive reasoning to gather that I am not going to kill him as it is, and that gun of his is hitting me pretty hard, what to do now?

 

Well, he's got that cool backpack, that not all the bosses had, and it has a giant red spot in the center...that's a pretty big context clue. Oh...when my ally is close and he does that vertical swing with his hammer, he gets stuck in the ground for a few seconds...how many other games have you seen a similar mechanic to that one? Perhaps these could be the '[less than] subtle clues' you were begging for?

 

So the game gives you two very clear visual indicators already, you are claiming none in the section I put in bold in the quote. And on top of that, you are given two blatantly obvious clues as to when/where to attack him within the context of the fight. Don't claim there aren't any indicators when there are, it's bad form in arguments, and it's simply false, and spreading misinformation about a game isn't cool, especially with new players who are actually trying to learn about the game they're playing.

[Liminal]

I love (sarcasm) seeing people standing against quality of life improvements in games. I honestly can't understand what's going on in their heads.

Anything that adds clarity and transparency without getting in the way of another gameplay aspect should be welcome by all.

Edited August 16, 2013 by The_Doc

[Godmode_Ash]

This is good idea.

 

The shield bar used to be even worse. The shield bar used to go all the way across the screen further outside his HP bar. Don't know when did DE ninja fix it but the OP's idea is even better!

[fishworshipper]

Yep. I know shooting him in the backpack is what causes him to change phase. But its not clear WHEN he changes phase, or when the backpack itself is ready to be shot again.

 

Phases are cool, but the overall communication of the phases is just unclear.

1. The backpack has its own health meter.

2. When the backpack is ready to stop being shot, a hose breaks off and starts spewing S#&$ everywhere.

3. When there are no tubes left he becomes the fire monster.

Overall, I'm fine with the addition but it's largely unnecessary.

Edited August 16, 2013 by fishworshipper