Twin Gremlins: The Crit-Gun We've Been Waiting For?

[Xuande]

So Pwnatron updated the https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au6mBXle3cFtdHBYUzVJaDJfdkIzSEN1cUh5UlRvckE'>datamined table for 9.5.2, and I noticed that the Twin Gremlin has a listed Critical Chance of 10%. Barring the sniper guns and Lex and Vipers, that's one of the highest critical chances on a gun in the game. It has the same crit chance as the Latron Prime and Sicarus, but the Gremlins are faster, full-automatic and uses the armor-ignoring property of physics impact. 

 

Should I gleefully pile on the crit chance and crit damage mods?

Edited August 14, 2013 by Xuande

[LazyKnight]

 

Should I gleefully pile on the crit chance and crit damage mods?

The critical mods for pistols are lack luster(18 points for less damage added than lethal torrent). I wouldn't recommend a critical build but instead something like this if a few forma were used.

 

hornet strike, rank 10

Barrel diffusion rank 5

No-return rank 5

Lethal torrent rank 5

Convulsion rank 5

Heated charge rank 5

Ice storm rank 3

Trick mag or a bane mod

Edited August 14, 2013 by LazyKnight

[ZephRG]

The Twin Vipers are better crit-wise (same critical stats as the Lex), but thanks to the terrible armor-scaling system they don't really hold up as well end-game.

 

That said, piling crit mods onto the Gremlins would only increase the average damage per shot by about ~25%, which isn't that impressive for 2 mods and 18 energy.

[Xuande]

The critical mods for pistols are lack luster(18 points for less damage added than lethal torrent). I wouldn't recommend a critical build but instead something like this if a few forma were used.

 

hornet strike, rank 10

Barrel diffusion rank 5

No-return rank 5

Lethal torrent rank 5

Convulsion rank 5

Heated charge rank 5

Ice storm rank 3

Trick mag or a bane mod

 

The problem with going full-elemental is that fire, electric and freeze (but not armor-piercing) mod damage is affected by armor, regardless of whether the mods are attached to an armor-ignoring weapon or not. That's because the elemental damage is applied separately and retain their innate damage properties (thus not taking on the armor-ignoring characteristics of the Gremlin). At the endgame, at what point would enemy armor be high enough that having a crit build would be better than an elemental build?

[Zhoyzu]

so what are you saying these are mini grakatas? is the fire rate faster then the vipers?

 

crit builds on crit weapons are powerful. so much better then cramming in elemental mods. pick one element and then crit build. frost is best elemental mod so id pick that. grakata is OP with high crit and damage builds. even end game. now with the new ammo convert mods its viable end game

[LazyKnight]

so what are you saying these are mini grakatas? is the fire rate faster then the vipers?

 

crit builds on crit weapons are powerful. so much better then cramming in elemental mods. pick one element and then crit build. frost is best elemental mod so id pick that. grakata is OP with high crit and damage builds. even end game. now with the new ammo convert mods its viable end game

The chance is 10% but the fire rate is slow so its not a twin viper critical hit monster.

 

The problem with going full-elemental is that fire, electric and freeze (but not armor-piercing) mod damage is affected by armor, regardless of whether the mods are attached to an armor-ignoring weapon or not. That's because the elemental damage is applied separately and retain their innate damage properties (thus not taking on the armor-ignoring characteristics of the Gremlin). At the endgame, at what point would enemy armor be high enough that having a crit build would be better than an elemental build?

 

If you want to go pure AP build it is hard when No-return is terrible. I would go this route just because a MOA always takes massive damage from electric you can abandon fire damage. Just stick the 2 critical mods in this setup should give good results

 

hornet strike, rank 10

Barrel diffusion rank 5

No-return rank 5

Lethal torrent rank 5

Convulsion rank 5 or (bane or trick mag) if you do not care about fusion MOA

Ice storm rank 3

Target cracker rank 5

Pistol gambit rank 5

Edited August 14, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Cryp2Nite]

grakata is OP with high crit and damage builds. even end game. now with the new ammo convert mods its viable end game

 

Your definition of end game is...Venus, Saturn? Sorry this is just...awkward. Grakata is one of the worst primarys out there.

Its crit chance even got nerfed to ~10% recently (9.3?). Or even less.

[Xuande]

Your definition of end game is...Venus, Saturn? Sorry this is just...awkward. Grakata is one of the worst primarys out there.

Its crit chance even got nerfed to ~10% recently (9.3?). Or even less.

 

It's 7.5%  according to the datamined info. Even if it was higher, I'd hesitate to use it endgame. Crits only ignore armor if the weapon's innate damage type is armor ignoring. That's why I'm wondering about the strengths of promoting criticals on the Gremlins, which do ignore armor.

[LazyKnight]

 That's why I'm wondering about the strengths of promoting criticals on the Gremlins, which do ignore armor.

It wouldn't be terrible to use critical mods on gremlin just do not expect much. It is about 30% more damage by having both critical mods on your gremlin. On a lex both give about 46% more damage, the critical mods for pistols are not good because the damage one is only 60%+.

Edited August 14, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Eirshy]

Honestly I'd be more inclined to do the non-crit build I have on my Despair.

Hornet, Diffusion, Return, Freeze, Ice Storm, Torrent, Trick Mag, Quick Draw.

 

Depending on how they act, I might swap QD for Gunslinger and pretend they're just bigger, non-hitscan Vipers lol

 

Your definition of end game is...Venus, Saturn? Sorry this is just...awkward. Grakata is one of the worst primarys out there.

Its crit chance even got nerfed to ~10% recently (9.3?). Or even less.

It's 7.5%  according to the datamined info. Even if it was higher, I'd hesitate to use it endgame. Crits only ignore armor if the weapon's innate damage type is armor ignoring. That's why I'm wondering about the strengths of promoting criticals on the Gremlins, which do ignore armor.

 

It has always been 7.5%, actually. The wiki claimed it was 15% based on a hunch. Pwnatron even states that the Grak *never* had 15% crit chance. Sauce.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

SO I decided to play with the builds to stack them up in a comparison. You aren't ever gonna equal the Despair, but you will be able to make a pretty decent burst weapon out of them. The crit build does get you higher per-bullet damage, however I personally tend to bring my Lanka almost every single mission- so the last thing I need is a sniper wanabe in my secondary slot. What I require is a Saturate (full cycle DPS (including reload)) or Spike (DPS per Clip) weapon.

 

Mod builds in use are:

Lanka: Serration, Split Chamber, Piercing Hit, Cryo Rounds, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Speed Trigger

Snidal: Serration, Split Chamber, Piercing Hit, Cryo Rounds, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Stormbringer

Gremlins: Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, No Return, Deep Freeze, Ice Storm, Gunslinger, (Trick Mag)

Critlins: Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, No Return, Deep Freeze, Pistol Gambit, Target Cracker, (Trick Mag)

Vipers: Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Convulsion, No Return, Deep Freeze, Pistol Gambit, Target Cracker, (Trick Mag)

Despair: Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, No Return, Deep Freeze, Ice Storm, Quick Draw, (Trick Mag)

 

All mods are at max rank

Edited August 14, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Davoodoo]

So Pwnatron updated the datamined table for 9.5.2, and I noticed that the Twin Gremlin has a listed Critical Chance of 10%. Barring the sniper guns and Lex and Vipers, that's one of the highest critical chances on a gun in the game. It has the same crit chance as the Latron Prime and Sicarus, but the Gremlins are faster, full-automatic and uses the armor-ignoring property of physics impact. 

 

Should I gleefully pile on the crit chance and crit damage mods?

yet mods add only 60% crit dmg which is silly low, it will still be better to add another element instead of crit.

[Phoenix86]

If it only was 15% like Vasto....