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[DE]Connor

Ongoing Sanctuary Onslaught Recalibration

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After about 24 hours of bashing my head against this mode I came to the conclusion that it isn't worth my time. I'm better off doing bounties for the new Zaw parts with a chance to get Augur Secrets, which easily sells for 80 plat and then can pay for Khora the next time I get a 75% discount. Not to mention all the other resources and general progress (mining for arcane materials, rep for Zaws aka new MR etc) I make that way. It's more likely to get Augur Secrets and sell it and to get a 75% coupon before I get all Khora parts in onslaught at the moment, which should tell you how askew the difficulty vs. reward balancing currently is in onslaught. It's also way easier and more enjoyable to do Tier 4 and 5 bounties. I like to have no limitations on my ability usage.

I'm also better off running fissures and selling Primes to buy Braton and Lato Vandal instead of going into elite mode. After that the only thing left in onslaught are captura scenes and relics I don't need... oh and the peculiar mod.

I guess what I'm saying is that you go into onslaught and more likely than not go out with NOTHING. Sure some focus and Endo might be in it, but really I have almost 70k Endo and a bunch of statues and duplicate mods lying around at this point.

My suggestion would be either to move Khora and the Vandal weapons elsewhere and instead make it a mission to grind relics (upgraded and not upgraded, maybe always the ones of the newest primes to maintain relevancy of the mode, although the last part might impact the economy heavily, it's just a thought) with a chance for captura scenes and peculiar mods each round (not every two rounds) and without AABC rotation but a single one each round or to more or less leave it as it is, but to make at least the first 8 zones somewhat enjoyable and clearable and not a frustration fest - here I'd also would like to see a reward each zone and not every two zones (see difficulty vs reward balance and better alternatives I mentioned above).

Otherwise a lot of the things have already been mentioned: solo players being left out (this also expands to other modes like survival to a lesser degree I might add), disconnects(getting stuck in the loading screen (rarely though), people leaving after two zones for various reasons (for example because they use onslaught to level their equipment and once done leave the rest hanging), terrible tilesets respectively spawns and/or aggro behaviour (this applies mostly to Grineer and Corpus and almost not at all to Infested as far as I can tell), having to search 10-20 seconds for enemies on some tilesets, ability limitations locking out the majority of the warframe roster to be able to succeed in this mode (you can even get a full Tridolon run in with any frame combination each night as long as you mod your weapon(s) correctly, heck you can probably even do it solo - in onslaught you either cheese/meta or you are guaranteed to completely waste your time, which in turn means pubs also will fail most of the time). If this is supposed to be the "arcady, fun, jump right into the action" mode, then why does it require me to spend 10 minutes (if not more) to look for a squad full of meta requirements to even just have a somewhat decent chance to complete ONE full rotation of rewards and why is almost not accessible at all for anything below a full squad and borderline broken for solo players?

A thing I also experienced was that I entered the next zone, did my thing, then fell into a hole and was teleported back to the old zone and then the conduit timer ran out and it "kicked" me out as if I actually didn't go to through it in the first place.

Another thing is that as a console player I and (I'd dare to assume) the majority don't have macros. We can't "drive" our Atterax across the map in order to keep up with the efficiency decay on elite and we also have a more clunky movement with controllers in general to navigate the map quickly. That's something that should maybe also be considered into the difficulty you apply to the game when it comes to reaching one full rotation.

And while this all sounds negative - well, it IS - I really would like this mode to become what it was advertised as: "The arcady fun combat mode, to farm focus in and get rewarded.". Right now it's frustratingly broken in some places and unbalanced when it comes to encouraging me to invest my time into playing this mode. Right now, I can say I would never play it again, if I have Khora and the two weapons, which - to me - isn't a good thing. Just to name an example where it went very well: fissures were a huge upgrade to the old tower system. I own all primes, but I still run them for fun, leveling and the rewards frequently - they respect my time, reward me enough and also reward me to have invested time in my builds and collection of options.

I understand that this mode is designed to make me ultimately "fail", but I also think it's not unreasonable to ask to be able to complete a full rotation somewhat reasonably in a full squad down to a solo player, when I am doing my best and come with a fully forma'd complete loadout.

This post is/was based on update 22.18.8 (PS4).

Edited by (PS4)Deeceem
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This

 

On 2018-04-26 at 2:08 PM, -DM-JadenRagnarok said:

@[DE]Rebeccaat wave 8 on normal sanctuary onslaught the eff timer was going as fast as if i were in wave 20
please fix :<

 

This is literally the very first item they addressed in the post. And WTF does Rebecca have to do with all this? Next time, read before you open your mouth, especially if it's a complaint. You just exude 'sqeaker' all over and it's not cute. 

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13 hours ago, (PS4)jtruong39 said:

This

 

This is literally the very first item they addressed in the post. And WTF does Rebecca have to do with all this? Next time, read before you open your mouth, especially if it's a complaint. You just exude 'sqeaker' all over and it's not cute. 

first of all the bug was still there even after the update
2nd mind your on dame business
3rd this comment was from last month ffs go get a life

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Is this... thing still in recalibration?

* The enemies keep on spawning in small groups at the four corners of the map;
* They still can't find the players with a map and GPS navigator;
* Efficiency still drops way too fast in the 6th-8th stage;
* Getting any useful reward on it is really a lottery, I'd prefer a "spend one plat for a slot roll" at this point in time;
* Extraction looks cool but it creates problems with uncommunciative players, so it happens that two players find themselves alone or even that a player gets sucked up by the portal unwillingly.

Please Garrus, can you calibrate those?

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Have other modes been considered so we have more choices?

I'm far more excited by increasing challenge to my own survival than the best builds being ones that don't interact with the mobs they kill.

More options would make balance easier too, right?  You wouldn't have to make it one size fits all.

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Why isn't progress periodically logged so if host migration rears its ugly unwanted intervention you at least get to start at a save marker, restart and carry on....Is this impossible?

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@[DE]Megan, @[DE]Rebecca and any other DE staff,

I have just spent the last three days on Onslaught runs for Khora components and I seemingly got very lucky to get them all in that time - must have done around 15 8-round runs total. I haven't really played the Onslaught missions since their release and I wanted to share some feedback for the dev team.

I agree with many opinions on here that the drop chances per Khora component aren't brilliant, I would argue that bringing the Main and Systems blueprints up to about the same percentages as rare Prime frame parts from fully-refined relics (~10%) would be appreciated. Having said that, I would suggest that the real problem for acquiring Khora lies in the reward system from Onslaught.

- I would like you to consider letting teammates choose which prize to receive every two rounds, akin to endless relic missions. Two rounds of Onslaught last for the same time as one Survival round (5 minutes), so to me that would seem fair.

- I like that Onslaught almost requires teamwork to get to higher rounds, unless one runs particular high-range, high-damage builds (Saryn/Volt were quite prevalent in my playthroughs). However the matching system meant that a lot of runs didn't reach 8 rounds because players brought something underleveled which could not survive higher difficulties and hence were a liability of their team, especially when farming for Khora BP/Systems. Is there a way of matching players with only Level 30 frames in their builds together to eliminate this problem? Not everyone has the luxury of a dedicated group of four players to take on team missions like this.

 

Outlier

Edited by 0utlier
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19 hours ago, 0utlier said:

@[DE]Megan, @[DE]Rebecca and any other DE staff,

I have just spent the last three days on Onslaught runs for Khora components and I seemingly got very lucky to get them all in that time - must have done around 15 8-round runs total. I haven't really played the Onslaught missions since their release and I wanted to share some feedback for the dev team.

I agree with many opinions on here that the drop chances per Khora component aren't brilliant, I would argue that bringing the Main and Systems blueprints up to about the same percentages as rare Prime frame parts from fully-refined relics (~10%) would be appreciated. Having said that, I would suggest that the real problem for acquiring Khora lie in both the reward system from Onslaught.

- I would like you to consider letting teammates choose which prize to receive every two rounds, akin to endless relic missions. Two rounds of Onslaught last for the same time as one Survival round (5 minutes), so to me that would seem fair.

- I like that Onslaught almost requires teamwork to get to higher rounds, unless one runs particular high-range, high-damage builds (Saryn/Volt were quite prevalent in my playthroughs). However the matching system meant that a lot of runs didn't reach 8 rounds because players brought something underleveled which could not survive higher difficulties and hence were a liability of their team, especially when farming for Khora BP/Systems. Is there a way of matching players with only Level 30 frames in their builds together to eliminate this problem? Not everyone has the luxury of a dedicated group of four players to take on team missions like this.

 

Outlier

What changes would you suggest that could make the mode more inclusive to a larger variety of warframes? As you implied, I don't see many warframes succeeding for the full rotation solo aside from warframes like Saryn, or Equinox, though I have started to see high power strength and range Volts being used as well lately.

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On 2018-09-03 at 4:56 PM, Urlan said:

What changes would you suggest that could make the mode more inclusive to a larger variety of warframes? As you implied, I don't see many warframes succeeding for the full rotation solo aside from warframes like Saryn, or Equinox, though I have started to see high power strength and range Volts being used as well lately.

Hey Urlan, thanks for asking. I would say to that firstly that my perception of Onslaught is that wasn't really meant to be played solo, for the very purpose of encouraging team play to keep the kill rate high. I would back that up by pointing to other game modes, past and present, which also encourage team play (some examples being Eidolons, Trials, the latest Strata Relay event). These Saryn/Volt/Equinox builds we have both mentioned which lay waste to entire arenas in Onslaught are most likely against the spirit of what the devs intended.

The option to solo Onslaught is there of course, so let's address your question by taking a look at what we know about Onslaught. The point of the game is to maintain a high kill rate to prevent Efficiency from reaching zero. Whilst we could suggest that any Warframe has a chance to clear 8+ rounds with the right equipped and modded weapons, not every Warframe has abilities which deal direct damage and as such some frames are a better choice than others. Some options I thought about:

- What if Efficiency loss wasn't entirely based on kill rate? One idea I had is that Warframe Energy expenditure could somehow contribute, which might make crowd-controlling Warframes such as Nyx and Vauban more viable. This would involve changing the mechanics of Onslaught however.

- Introduce difficulty tiers, and/or challenges. Essentially Onslaught follows the same mechanics as Challenge Rifts from Diablo 3, so why not adapt some of the same ideas?

- What if Warframe abilities could synergise to create new effects? (An idea from an old RPG I used to play back in the day, Chrono Trigger). Two or more abilities from different Warframes combine together to create larger, more damaging AOE effects. For example, Banshee casts Sound Quake and Nezha uses Divine Spears at the same time, causing massive continuous waves of spears which gradually increase in radius. Or Wukong uses Cloud Walker Frost sets up a Snow Globe, resulting in Cloud Walker engulfing an entire room and dealing a Cold DOT. The possibilities are there to be imagined, but it might help diversify team compositions in Onslaught and beyond.

There are pitfalls in all these ideas of course, as I'm sure someone will point out, but these are what I came up with quickly to answer you. It is very unlikely any of these would actually happen, I am just another player, but you invited me to give an answer so here it is.

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28 minutes ago, 0utlier said:

Hey Urlan, thanks for asking. I would say to that firstly that my perception of Onslaught is that wasn't really meant to be played solo, for the very purpose of encouraging team play to keep the kill rate high. I would back that up by pointing to other game modes, past and present, which also encourage team play (some examples being Eidolons, Trials, the latest Strata Relay event). These Saryn/Volt/Equinox builds we have both mentioned which lay waste to entire arenas in Onslaught are most likely against the spirit of what the devs intended.

The option to solo Onslaught is there of course, so let's address your question by taking a look at what we know about Onslaught. The point of the game is to maintain a high kill rate to prevent Efficiency from reaching zero. Whilst we could suggest that any Warframe has a chance to clear 8+ rounds with the right equipped and modded weapons, not every Warframe has abilities which deal direct damage and as such some frames are a better choice than others. Some options I thought about:

- What if Efficiency loss wasn't entirely based on kill rate? One idea I had is that Warframe Energy expenditure could somehow contribute, which might make crowd-controlling Warframes such as Nyx and Vauban more viable. This would involve changing the mechanics of Onslaught however.

- Introduce difficulty tiers, and/or challenges. Essentially Onslaught follows the same mechanics as Challenge Rifts from Diablo 3, so why not adapt some of the same ideas?

- What if Warframe abilities could synergise to create new effects? (An idea from an old RPG I used to play back in the day, Chrono Trigger). Two or more abilities from different Warframes combine together to create larger, more damaging AOE effects. For example, Banshee casts Sound Quake and Nezha uses Divine Spears at the same time, causing massive continuous waves of spears which gradually increase in radius. Or Wukong uses Cloud Walker Frost sets up a Snow Globe, resulting in Cloud Walker engulfing an entire room and dealing a Cold DOT. The possibilities are there to be imagined, but it might help diversify team compositions in Onslaught and beyond.

There are pitfalls in all these ideas of course, as I'm sure someone will point out, but these are what I came up with quickly to answer you. It is very unlikely any of these would actually happen, I am just another player, but you invited me to give an answer so here it is.

Interesting ideas

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45 minutes ago, 0utlier said:

 

- What if Efficiency loss wasn't entirely based on kill rate? One idea I had is that Warframe Energy expenditure could somehow contribute, which might make crowd-controlling Warframes such as Nyx and Vauban more viable. This would involve changing the mechanics of Onslaught however.

I think this is the most important point.

If efficiency is tied to kill rate, then Onslaught will ALWAYS favor frames that destroy enemies in a large area without having to actually interact with them.  I personally find that to be the least rewarding sort of gameplay in this game.

Changing that, as you mentioned, would be drastic.  But maybe changing it isn't the best idea and we'd be better off with different types of Onslaught that had different mechanics.

When I heard 'Sanctuary Onslaught' I had visions of getting swarmed by eximus units until I finally ran out of tricks or a whole bunch of creative 'Tenno Olympics' events that lean into different gamestyles and leverage different skills (and now that the K-drive is coming, let's add races and Tony Hawk style stunt modes to the vision)

I still want THAT.

Edited by FreeWilliam

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On 2018-09-04 at 2:42 PM, FreeWilliam said:

I think this is the most important point.

If efficiency is tied to kill rate, then Onslaught will ALWAYS favor frames that destroy enemies in a large area without having to actually interact with them.  I personally find that to be the least rewarding sort of gameplay in this game.

Changing that, as you mentioned, would be drastic.  But maybe changing it isn't the best idea and we'd be better off with different types of Onslaught that had different mechanics.

When I heard 'Sanctuary Onslaught' I had visions of getting swarmed by eximus units until I finally ran out of tricks or a whole bunch of creative 'Tenno Olympics' events that lean into different gamestyles and leverage different skills (and now that the K-drive is coming, let's add races and Tony Hawk style stunt modes to the vision)

I still want THAT.

Eximus enemies don't really encourage 'tricks' its just pound them with a specific elemental since they resist every other one, sometimes unto complete immunity. I can sympathize with the feeling though, when DE described it, I imagined Smash TV which they name dropped. Sadly, I don't feel that this mode captures the charm of Smash TV and really caters only to a few particular methods of play and if you can't get to rotation C, you failed. That isn't much fun.

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Unfortunately sanctuary onslaught is a failed focus farm, doesn't matter how fast i kill enemies if my allies do no dmg i get very little focus. If my allies do dmg but i don't i get very little focus. If we all do dmg then i get decent amounts of focus but not even near to equinox adaro farm (tested both with 4 greater lenses equipped, on a 20 minute timer... and while adaro gave focus just for melee and equinox it still yielded more focus than elite onslaught)

Dear Digital Extremes, if you plan on nerfing adaro focus farm then at the very least make a focus farm that can bring similar(even a bit lower) amounts of focus with the same repeatability (onslaught can be good if focus gains are measured by individual effort and buffed accordingly, so a solo player can get as much focus as a player in a team if their efforts are the same and the team member is not punished if the rest of the team does no dmg while he does) 

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Does anyone else seem to have a weak 1st round in elite onslaught? I think it seeds round 1's spawn rate and enemy density with whomever comes in as a squad initially, so coming in solo seeds round 1 as super weak. I consistently get ~500-700 focus in round 1, whereas most others I'm looking at 3k-7k focus. 

Also not happy about the static rotations. Last time I was grinding it always started in the cloud city tileset with a buncha stairs, catwalks, and open places to fall. Round 2 was always a ship interior tileset with the air vent that blows you down across one gap. I think 3 was always void. Make 'em different every time, don't let us learn what's coming next!

My final input - don't put magnetic anomalies right where people spawn into a new round. I have to go 100% arcane nullifier so I can use abilities as soon as I can get through and not be drained of energy. Not everyone is so happily armed for the situation. 

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