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[DE]Connor

Ongoing Sanctuary Onslaught Recalibration

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(Here is a chinese player,my english is not well)

Thanks for addressing these issues

I always think Sanctuary Onslaught  is very intresting mode.because it can let our player Quick experience more than the lv 155 enemy。

If u want to challenge above area 10.u need to think how we make u and u teammate  warframe and weapom.

(Just RPG GAME,u need 2DPS 1Sup 1Control?Or3 DPS 1 Sup?Or 4 DPS?What is the best sup?Trinity?Obreon?Harrow?。。。。)

It let our player will come to think that question.

Finally,i think Sanctuary Onslaught is good .I hope the follow-up can add more difficult mode.In order to reflect the teamwork between players。Instead of all people holding melee weapons just like “Warriors Orochi”。

 

Can you improve above the area 8  Vandal’s probability?

(Ok,now I think learning English is necessary)So as to encourage players to challenge the interests of high area?

 

非常感谢你们的工作,也非常感谢你们能够为我们带来怎么棒的游戏。

我由始至终认为精英圣殿是一个非常好的模式,因为它可以让我们玩家快速体验到等级150级以上的怪物(尽管是弱化版)

但这也是一次非常好的体验。

因为如果你想要挑战区域10以上,这就意味着你需要思考你和你的队友的战甲配置。(就像RPG游戏一样,你需要思考队伍内战甲的安排,两个输出一个辅助一个控制?还是三个输出一个辅助?还是暴力的四个输出?辅助战甲我们又需要什么?是主2技能 回复能量的Trinity?还是主4技能为队伍提供减少伤害的Trinity?还是控制辅助兼得的Obroen?。。。)

我认为高难度会让我们玩家开始思考更多的问题,进而去开放更多的思路。

最后,再次感谢你们为我们带来怎么一次有趣的模式。同时也希望后续能够添加更多的高难度游戏模式,这样才不会让我们玩家永远都是手持近战武器像在玩“无双系列”割草游戏。

另外能否提升区域8以上破坏者部件的概率,从而来鼓励玩家挑战高区域的兴趣?

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The focus must have NO cap. 

You added eidolons so Tridolon brings home 450.000 focus more or less in each run so imagine you run like 4 , 5 nights you gain 2mil or 3mil focus in half a day more or less.

AT LEAST bring Cap to 1mil for god sakes

we are 25MR and maxed out, we farm 250.000 focus in one sactuary run, let us use our time we give in this game and GAIN something out of it.

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Ooooooooh this makes me so much happier to see than what was proposed yesterday. I’m so glad DE is willing to listen, unlike certain game devs/producers *cough* EA *cough*

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Thank you for listening and I would like to add to this that perhaps every 8 zones there would be a small increase for getting uncommon / rare rewards this way it encourages players to stay longer instead of the current "do 8 zones and leave meta"

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Thanks for the update Connor. The whole focus and efficiency changes look promising !

9 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

-Ongoing improvements! Once Onslaught’s core functionality has been nailed down, we have several ideas on how to spice things up. The random environmental hazards we added yesterday are a good example of this. Warframe is no stranger to “live changes”, so hopefully this comes as no surprise to long-time players!
 

I hope this means some changes / additions gameplay wise. Try everything you can to help diversity, that's the perfect mission for it (you got the cephalon excuse, his domain, his rules).

At the moment people use the meta (like always but it's even worse this time) and that's it, it's just about min/maxer & spin2win spammers and it really highlight the worst warframe has to offer. Videos of gameplay on youtube for this mission look bad. I'm not asking to remove that for those who play like this but you could add some mechanics that allow others to reach the same content with more variety/builds.

Edited by Gilmaesh

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11 minutes ago, Trizion said:

Thank you for listening and I would like to add to this that perhaps every 8 zones there would be a small increase for getting uncommon / rare rewards this way it encourages players to stay longer instead of the current "do 8 zones and leave meta"

 

I agree with this, however I don't think they'd do that. For some reason balance means having unnecssary drop rates to logically map out the estimation of how long it should take to how long one should SPEND time to get said item.

 

Be nice if they did though.

this is fine GIF
Edited by Lahared
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This Host Migration issue is going to be an absolute thorn in the side of Onslaught until its fixed. Alot of the backlash is centered around the very common possibility of wasting an entire run at any moment... things will probably remain toxic until its addressed.

This mode is alot more fun when playing with others, but that is a risky proposition. Going past a reward Zone with a Public Group is nerve wracking right now, and you certainly don't want to continue if you just got a rare drop. An uncooperative or unaware host can force you to "End Task" on Warframe at any moment.

 

I love DE, and I want to say respectfully- I think updates on this Host issue needs to be front and center of communications about Onslaught improvements. No amount of reporting on it is too much. It is the biggest fire burning right now, causing people outrageous frustration on a regular basis.

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It would also be nice to see the same sort of system in place that you have in fissures, so people who would have lost stuff would have it mailed to them and it would make things a lot better overall for everyone this way because I too have lost several Khora parts due to host migration or other reasons. 

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Everything looks good, except the focus part. Instead of increasing it, the focus cap should honestly be removed from the game.

Edited by xXDeadsinxX
Spelling error
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I think they would not removed the cap until they implement the softcap and also loving the new changes, but can you fix the efficiency drop when the timer runs out and we are waiting for the portal? Just to make sure that we have "fair" efficiency when we have done everything in 2 mins and we are ready to go to the next zone

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While the focus improvements are greatly appreciated, I still would like to point out the 1,000,000 cost for unlocking waybounds, when maxing the next highest node is roughly around 300,000. Does it really have to be a million???

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11 minutes ago, R34LM said:

While the focus improvements are greatly appreciated, I still would like to point out the 1,000,000 cost for unlocking waybounds, when maxing the next highest node is roughly around 300,000. Does it really have to be a million???

It is a lot however, now that i finally unlocked the nodes, I wish i could take it back and start over.

If they lowered requirements too low, there would not be much for players to look forward to. Playing the game and always having a new ability or stronger gear piece to look forward to is a big part of the game. Trust me when I say take your time and enjoy the leveling process.

Edited by ShinTechG

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39 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Everything looks good, except the focus part. Instead of increasing it, the focus cap should honestly be removed from the game.

Why?  So the no-lifers (self included) can have another excuse to whine about not having anything left to do?  So they can have another means to put themselves ahead of those players who have lives, and then be $&*^s about people not being up to their standard?

No.  I think some limitations are good for for the community, because they stop it from becoming divided.

If anything should change, it should be how hard it is to get to that cap unless you restrict yourself to a handful of frames, builds and weapons, in a handful of maps.  Forcing people to repeat the same extremely limited thing every day in order to progress, doesn't generate a good opinion of any game.

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10 minutes ago, polarity said:

Why?  So the no-lifers (self included) can have another excuse to whine about not having anything left to do?  So they can have another means to put themselves ahead of those players who have lives, and then be $&*^s about people not being up to their standard?

No.  I think some limitations are good for for the community, because they stop it from becoming divided.

If anything should change, it should be how hard it is to get to that cap unless you restrict yourself to a handful of frames, builds and weapons, in a handful of maps.  Forcing people to repeat the same extremely limited thing every day in order to progress, doesn't generate a good opinion of any game.

Not quite sure I follow, sorry; how is being divisive better for bringing the community together?

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Rewards every bounty, rewards every excavator... When to we get rewards every round in Onslaught? Also, please do something about the unfair rotation rewards, half the rotations (A, A) have only a few things people are after, but the others (B, C) have all the stuff we want, yet they only appear half, but have all the stuff distributed in them, mean that we'll be drowning in rewards from A, but be #*!%ed over and lacking the stuff in B and C, mean more and more grinding...

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The affinity gained from this mode took a real hit when you fixed the scaling, raising the focus cap doesn't help much if we can't reach that far anyway. Although being able to get to later zones might help with that, so I won't say it needs increased until I've tried the next version.

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Very happy bout this, the mode is great but need a lot of fixs/add stuffs, this is like bounty at 1st, tons of bugs and slowly it became stable and better. Still the scaling system need some serious look if u guys plan to finish this game mode, and that also mean u need to look at the damage system too which is a HUGE can of worm so i will be patience and watch u guys evolve <3

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8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

Simaris is not done calibrating. For those keeping score, Sanctuary Onslaught has been live on public for almost a week. Thanks to everyone for your patience while we work through several unexpected kinks!

The biggest issue we had to overcome was a nasty case of “bad scaling-itis” - perhaps a cruel trick from Simaris. Read more details about that situation here:

(we'll talk about this more later).
 

Simaris’ recalibrations of the mode have come fast and frequent, so we wanted to share some of our (his) plans for Onslaught going forward. And remember, everything here is subject to further change, as we do plan on adjusting this mode frequently for the foreseeable future!

-More Efficiency tweaks! We are undoing the passive Efficiency drain increase that was added yesterday. Instead of 10x drain, the max drain will be 6x in both modes, just like it was at release. Furthermore, the Efficiency drain at the start of regular Onslaught has been reduced, allowing players to reach wave 8 more easily.

-Enemy level increases at high levels! In Elite Onslaught, enemies will now scale up to level 280 by Zone 25, instead of being capped at 180. We still see Onslaught as a more bite-sized gameplay experience, but combined with the efficiency changes above, how far your team can last should be dictated slightly more by your ability to kill instead of hard numeric limits.

-Spawn flow fixes! We’re aware that every tile is not created equal, and will be watching for community complaints regarding a lack of enemies. The issue needs to be fixed manually by our level designers for each tile, so thanks for bearing with us as we continue tackling this issue over time. (friendly reminder: screenshots taken using F6 will contain “metadata” that helps our programmers identify the tile in question - please use for all forum bug reports!)

-Ongoing improvements! Once Onslaught’s core functionality has been nailed down, we have several ideas on how to spice things up. The random environmental hazards we added yesterday are a good example of this. Warframe is no stranger to “live changes”, so hopefully this comes as no surprise to long-time players!
 

Plus, an added bonus: since Focus gain is an important aspect to this mode, we’re increasing the daily Focus cap! In addition to the base limit of 250,000, players will have an additional 5,000 cap room for each Mastery Rank they’ve achieved. This means an MR20 player will now have a total cap of 350,000.
 

One final comment about enemy scaling - this game mode won't be the place where we tackle that. Apologies if anyone felt this was a secret experiment for enemy scaling. We would have told you in advance if that was the case. Whether or not you loved the easier enemies, it is simply not part of this and we have a lot of issues to solve before we can even begin that path.

We apologize for any undue stress the process of making changes causes - the host migration bugs are frustrating, and the changes sometimes not quick enough or too confusing, but we are still working on things!

Thanks everyone!

@[DE]Connor

Fantastic news.

Thank you for disclosuring a bit more of the why in this post instead of just an information dump.  The fact that you told us f6 contained meta data for you to use and the fact that we now know the spawn locations are handplaced makes it easier for us to understand the manhours involved in fixing the mode. 

Is anything done to the game architecture to handle host migrations better? or is it a hard nut to crack?

As far as testing goes what can we do to help you narrow down the kinks and errors in onslaught?

I for one would have nop problem with sending you scrubbed dxdiag files etc if it would help you fix the mode faster. 

 

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how to make someone happy? take something from him and then give it back

but, yeah, it's good changes

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9 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Apologies if anyone felt this was a secret experiment for enemy scaling.

This makes me sad.
*Puts away tin foil hat*

9 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

We would have told you in advance if that was the case.

Note: I see how what I'm writing looks, and am not meaning imply that you're lying, but I can't see a way to phrase this better.
That said: were Archwing mods not a try at better calibrated mods, starting from the ground up in a clean-slate ecology (which may have led somewhere if Archwing had caught on better)?

 

Obligatory:
pls fix infinite host migrations and their eating rewards (due to mandatory alt+f4).
(Also, why should a host migration happen at extraction if host is also extracting?)

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2 hours ago, Rekalty said:

Rewards every bounty, rewards every excavator... When to we get rewards every round in Onslaught?

Same in Defection - 1 reward every 2 squads.
Would be arguably fair if you could reliably get at least 1 squadmate and split the rescues.

If.

Good luck trying to farm Harrow now.

But it comes down to their reward schedule - 5 min per reward (+12 sec or whatever per round for the portal to spawn  :s )
The only way I see 1 reward per wave is if they double their length.
 

2 hours ago, Rekalty said:

Also, please do something about the unfair rotation rewards,

Working as intended, no?

-----

5 hours ago, KazamatsKotarou said:

Ok,now I think learning English is necessary

Don't worry, you were comprehensible :)

Edited by Chroia

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I have an update regarding my earlier statement on how normal onslaught felt buffed despite the original intent of the hotfix aimed at elite:

This problem seems to be particularly shifted towards Grineer units.

Previously prior to the patch, a single cast of Banshee's Quake, Ember's World on Fire, or a simple slide attack with my Zaw would make quick work of any enemy starting from Zone 1 all the way to roughly Zone 8, 9, or 10 where levels of enemies were high enough that a single cast or attack wasn't enough to take them down. Now, this generally behavior is in line with the level of enemies and behavior you would experience outside of onslaught in a long-winded defense or survival game.

I noticed through more testing of normal onslaught that Grineer units--regular, kuva, or corrupted simply had insane damage reduction. I'm not talking about an eximus unit or heavy gunner. Just a plain-ole butcher or lancer would take multiple casts or hits to take down. Normally I have no problem with this as standing in one spot spamming four isn't exactly "fun" gameplay, but the problem is I'm experiencing this at Zone 3 or 4, where enemies are in their high 30's or low 40's. I expect this to happen when enemies are higher, not this low. 

Someone on Reddit pointed out that they were seeing a 90% damage reduction from Grineer units on normal onslaught without corrosive projection. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but it certainly feels that way.

This is also why people are claiming to see severely nerfed focus on normal, and why can't seemingly get past six.

If the map layout is generally good, and the mobs are Corpus or Infested, I can break 7,000 to 11,000 focus with the initial focus orb at the start of a portal. if they're grineer, I'm lucky to break 4,000 and sometimes I get under 2,000. This is because a single cast can down non-grineer enemies on lower portals, and still can be effective at taking them down within 3-4 casts up to zone 9-10ish. With Grineer, you struggle as early as Zone 3, and if you're seeing them at Zone 6, not only will your caster frames struggle to take them down with warframe abilities, it'll take your weapons significantly more hits than it should given the level of mobs in normal onslaught. Coupled with how fast efficiency decays if you don't take down enemies immediately, it's easy to see why people are struggling to get to rotation C or Zone 8 after the patch.

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i'd like to see rotating rewards
simaris rep gain (even 1 per kill, 2 per eximus kill)
boss waves where you fight a random boss among the horde (which have a chance to drop a reward off the table of your current rotation)
and also have the focus gain stay nice and high

whatever happened to our focus soft cap?

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