Ongoing Sanctuary Onslaught Recalibration

[Balduranne]

My biggest issue with this gamemode is the sheer amount of wimps that ragequit when their loadout is not working out, thus screwing everyone else out of their drops in the process.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

4 hours ago, Prof_Blocks_007 said:

Currently, it feels as though Maiming Strike is the only option.

It is for Elite, anyway. I've had success with Saryn Spores as well, but on Elite she's just not tanky enough. But you're right. On solo, this game mode heavily favors the use of spin to win if you don't want to risk running out of efficiency even on normal mode. If Elite Onslaught is supposed to be endgame and further changes to the gameplay are not on the table, the drop tables should probably be changed to make the stat changing gear acquirable on solo without giving you heavy onset carpal tunnel.

[Ryoushin]

I didn't go in all replies, but a big problem for me is when you finish your onslaught. I have a bug that freezes me with the stats of my successful mission and if I don't hit "Repeat mission" I will stay forever locked in that screen the only option being Alt+F4. 

Also, the focus multiplier is lower from this last hotfix/update regarding the amount I gathered per half zone when it first came into being (void onslaught).

[Callback]

Can we please get scaling drain based on squad size?  At least mirror the effect it has on enemy spawns.  That's only fair.  Fewer spawns, slower drain.  I'd just like to see solo runs able to make a simple AABC rotation before becoming impossible, and without resorting to ultimate cheese like self-damage abating Trinity.

 

And speaking of abating, can we potentially look at armor scaling or place armor modifiers on this mode?  When Grineer and Grineer-based Corrupted end up with 10x the eHP of other factions or more, it's felt pretty hard.  Especially for solo players who can only carry 1 corrosive projection.  And unfortunately with the kill speed the mode demands, there's no time to wait for slash ticks or apply corrosive procs as we normally do to get around this system, since even weapons that can insta-strip are nowhere near fast enough for the mode's required kill speed.

[Praesagium]

We need a better scaling with the efficency and armor. In solo its hard to make it to wave 8 without using maiming strike, i think we should use whatever tactic, frame or weapon we want, not just the easy spin2win just to go to the next zone.

Less large maps. Large maps and a bugged ai makes onslaught feel so frustraiting, i have to look on every corner to kill groups of enemies that are afking and while i look for them, the efficency just drain away, sometimes you can end with 30%-20% of efficency for the next zone.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

5 hours ago, Ryoushin said:

I didn't go in all replies, but a big problem for me is when you finish your onslaught. I have a bug that freezes me with the stats of my successful mission and if I don't hit "Repeat mission" I will stay forever locked in that screen the only option being Alt+F4.

Same. Just click on repeat and cancel the mission. The bug occurs if the closing portal ends the game a second time while you're still on results screen counting down after you've run out of efficiency.

1 hour ago, Praesagium said:

We need a better scaling with the efficency and armor. In solo its hard to make it to wave 8 without using maiming strike, i think we should use whatever tactic, frame or weapon we want, not just the easy spin2win just to go to the next zone.

I was expecting something like diminishing returns for kills done in the same way repeatedly, or conversely, bonus efficiency for killing enemies in different ways. That'd encourage switching.

[Hayde615]

So I posted my thoughts and what I perceived to be bugs following the hotfix last Wednesday; some of them are on this thread while the rest are scattered throughout various hotfix threads. I've voiced my concerns over other forms of communities as well as Twitter for the hell of it. Since the developers has not admitted that what I viewed as bugs to be unintentional, I'll just assume that despite the initial wording from @[DE]Rebecca were intended to inform that buffs were supposed to apply to normal onslaught.

After relentlessly playing a good bit of normal (and attempting elite) onslaught over the weekend, both in solo and party/pub play, I have one thing to say that encompasses all I'm about to type:

Can we get just a little bit of love for the solo players? The introverts? The small duo teams?

I spent so much time this weekend trying to figure any possible way to even get to wave 8 or 10 on normal.

As per the forums and Reddit, I tried:

1. Banshee Quake
2. Banshee Silence
3. Trinity Link
4. Saryn Spore
5. Equinox Maim
6. Neutral and Slow MP Nova
7. Mag Magnetize and Polarize.

Every build, without fail tends to end around zone 6 or 7. I think I made it to zone 8 maybe twice and zone 9 once. It is absolutely insane how much of a difference four people running corrosive projection makes. It's the difference between taking several shots or swings at a Grineer or Corrupted unit in zone 7 versus me slicing through them like butter on zone 11 with a group of four. Look, I'm not asking for a nerf to corrosive projection--in fact I've spent so many forma changing the polarity's of my frames that'd be the last thing I want right now. I'm not asking to make all of onslaught easier either--because then it'd be far too easy in a group. Can we just have..a little bit of scaling depending on the number of players? I mean in terms of enemy health or armor, not nerf the amount that spawns because frankly that just tanks the efficiency.

Despite the founder badge (as if that even means anything), I'm actually a semi-returning player. I don't want to call myself casual, because frankly when I do play I'll go hardcore and everything. But I did take a huge break after PoE came out and I only recently came back to the game at the start of the year. So because of that, I'll be first to admit that I didn't get a chance to get every stalker event mod and I'm definitely missing primed mods.

And that's the problem. Every time over the weekend I've brought up the inquiry of "Hey, is it possible to do this mode solo or duo?" "I'm only looking to get to 8 or 10 for a chance at Khora parts and some light focus farming" because I know I don't have the gear to slide attack and clear half the room. I want to get there. But I have to be patient. Because if I happily march my way to Warframe.market and buy all the primed mods that are considered necessities, that's easily 1,000 platinum minimum. When Baro came around a couple weeks ago, all he had was bane mods. In fact I don't even know when the last time he had primed reach, pressure point, and all those goodies were. The last "good" one I picked up was target cracker.

Isn't that end-game level of gear though? Fully maxed primed mods is required to get to wave 8 consistently? I know I know, someone here is going to ask "Well why don't just you pug it?" I do. Despite the fact that host migration is still an issue half the time, I do because it's absolutely an exercise in frustration to solo right. But my question is why is it so damn hard after the patch to just get to wave 8? Like despite not having all those delicious primed mods, I do own a Tigris Prime, I do own an Akstiletto Prime, an Amprex, Synapse, Lanka, Plague Zaw, Orthos Prime--the list goes on. All of these have been forma'd multiple times with catalysts. I might be time-gated by primed mods, but my arsenal is by no means "crap". As for the frames, I own every normal frame sans Harrow, Nidus, and Khora (although I have bits and pieces of all them). But the question begs. Why do I need top of the line, end-game gear to go 15-20 minutes on a mode that's aimed at level 20-30 enemies?

I just don't get it. Why is it harder to go 20 minutes in normal onslaught than it is to solo a Sortie? Why is it harder to go 20 minutes here than 35-40 minutes at Mot in the void? Why is the difference between solo and party play so big here compared to other modes in the game?

I'm not asking for things to be handed to me on a silver platter. I'm not asking to be able to compete with organized teams on the leader board. Hell, I don't even care about the leader boards. I'm saying that a solo player should be able to easily get to zone 20 with minimal effort. That's not at all what I'm asking. What I want to know is why are enemies so damn tanky by freaking wave 5? A seven forma Amprex with fully-leveled mods barely tickle Grineer and Corrupted. Why?

Lastly, despite this pseudo rant/plea, I'm absolutely open to suggestions and criticism. I get a sensation here that someone will tell me that I'm bad at the game and it is in fact possible to solo to wave 8 or 10 easy. By all means, please enlighten me. Tell me. Show me. Don't just say I'm bad. And as I said already, preferably without a setup that requires maxed primed mods because I'm frankly at the mercy of Baro having the right cards in stock. Because paying 200 plat for primed reach for example seems insane to me. But maybe I'm just cheap.

[(XBOX)CynNex]

On 4/26/2018 at 11:06 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Wish console could get a taste

I'm happy to wait till they iron out all the kinks first :) Because everything we get needs to pass through cert first the more issues they can deal with beforehand, the less we have to deal with in the gap between updates.

Same goes for the Khora changes, but totally agree with you, amped to try out the new goodies!

[GOLDNROD]

As much as I loathed the thought of it, I went ahead and picked up meme strike just trying to be able to finish zone 8 again. since these changes I have only been able to finish zone 8 one time solo. before that I bought a riven that nearly doubled my amprex's damage output. literally anything that comes into attack range of any of my weapons dies. but since most of the tiles are a maze and/or miles wide there is almost no way to kill enough. This is still broken DE. There is one tile with a bridge and robot parts hanging from the ceiling. on that tile I am able to run back an forth and melt the entire room in seconds with my amprex, or meme strike atterax. I was killing dozens of creatures simultaneously without end. and I LOST efficiency. on Zone 7. This is still broken DE. people still can't do this in a group without being griefed, and no matter how good our loadout is we can't even get to zone 8 solo. on NORMAL onslaught. 

i'm feeling a little ripped off if we're being honest. before you "fixed" it I was just able to finish zone 8 solo in normal maybe 2 out of 3 times. I had everything except khora systems. now I have NO CHANCE of getting it because of these "fixes". i'm sure you wanted at least the elite game mode to be hard for well geared elitest players, but normal should be doable to zone 8 without the 1k plat rivens and the 500 plat meme strike that doesn't even help.

oh and I almost forgot what just happened a few minutes ago that made me decide to come here and complain. 3 freaking maps IN A ROW with cold "hazards" so it slows you down to a crawl. even if you have the best weapons there's NO WAY to close with your enemy to use them! the hazards should be super rare if not COMPLETELY REMOVED from normal. last night there was one map that was so littered with magnetic procs you almost couldn't move without being disintegrated by one of them. 

[Praesagium]

hace 46 minutos, GOLDNROD dijo:

oh and I almost forgot what just happened a few minutes ago that made me decide to come here and complain. 3 freaking maps IN A ROW with cold "hazards" so it slows you down to a crawl. even if you have the best weapons there's NO WAY to close with your enemy to use them! the hazards should be super rare if not COMPLETELY REMOVED from normal. last night there was one map that was so littered with magnetic procs you almost couldn't move without being disintegrated by one of them. 

I feel like the "hazards" are only a lazy "fix" to make onslaught more hard, i mean, they could give enemies adventages like more damage or more enemies spawning in rows, but instead they put hazards and fixed the armor scaling and that for me was a mistake.

 

En 30/4/2018 a las 13:49, AuroraSonicBoom dijo:

I was expecting something like diminishing returns for kills done in the same way repeatedly, or conversely, bonus efficiency for killing enemies in different ways. That'd encourage switching.

Like the affinity challenge rewards, kill 20 enemies with pistols +10% efficiency or something like that would be nice.

[Zendadaist]

I'd just like the host migration seizing up and connection lost issue to go away please. Sure now the rotation rewards are kept but everything else (mostly xp and focus) is gone.

[Do_High_Go]

At first it was fun, new exciting. Then, the changes happened and it was still okay, good focus farm at least. Now, 15 attempts in a row, there is always a guy that is either leveling a weapon bringing a Rhino for example (0 team sense, no buff nothing) which is absolutely selfish, or a guy that leaves at zone 2. If you are lucky he is not the magical and mystical HOST, but even then, at least one of the 3 people remaining bails by Zone 5 and again if he is the host you get screwed. Now there are no problems with host migration - Yes, but FFS waiting for the host migration at Zone 2 then another one immediately after and another one after that and oh boy freking Jesus you spend at least 3 minutes just watching loading screen...... 15 times in a row.

My question is - Does spending 45 minutes in loading screens instead of playing the point of the Onslaught? If yes well congrats, you and most importantly the community Nailed It dead on.

My suggestion - Penalty! Yes, a penalty for those that ditch the game past the point where another person can join or at least for those who leave at reward of Zone 2. All that applies until Zone 8, after that is understandable. The penalty? No drop for all the zones the player that left was on, finishing ABC rotation removes the penalty.

I am sure there is a way to check at what condition the player left - Alt+F4 and Abort mission are obvious enough since no bug report is generated. This will make those greedy kids that want only drop from rotation A think twice before queuing in Public instead of going solo..... like come on any frame can get past AA on Elite. 

P.S. I just wanted to slay some stuff and have fun for a bit - No fun, no slaying stuff, only rage inducing host migrations for 45 minutes 🙂

[Brynslustafir]

Having all rank 30 gear should have stayed as a requirement. I really don't want to see people coming here to level as if it's Hydron, getting blasted, and rage quitting on zone 2, thus preventing another player from joining. 

The only reason I'm posting this in a difficulty discussion is because bad players who need to be carried and then ragequit make the game harder by failing to pull their own weight. 

Also, when they quit on zone 2, they stop anyone else from joining, making the game more difficult by forcing the other 3 to continue without a full squad. 

[Tyanya]

On 2018-04-30 at 10:37 PM, Hayde615 said:

Lastly, despite this pseudo rant/plea, I'm absolutely open to suggestions and criticism. I get a sensation here that someone will tell me that I'm bad at the game and it is in fact possible to solo to wave 8 or 10 easy. By all means, please enlighten me. Tell me. Show me. Don't just say I'm bad. And as I said already, preferably without a setup that requires maxed primed mods because I'm frankly at the mercy of Baro having the right cards in stock. Because paying 200 plat for primed reach for example seems insane to me. But maybe I'm just cheap.

Hi there Hayde

I have zero criticism of what you wrote and read through the whole lot carefully, you made one hell of alot of rational good points, I don't disagree with any of them, I don't think you're cheap either, I won't part with my plat over 100.

I really hope you don't deem me arrogant in asking, but I'd like to duo with you if you're up for it, just pm me.

I managed to make it to zone 14 but that's using the cheese on toast Maiming Reach Atterax, imagine that, little ole me, but I'm online ingame most of the time and always need focus, I know it shouldn't this way and solo play needs a good proper tweaking but in the meantime I'm about if needed, if you just want to get your Khora odds n sods.

Cheers then

[Callback]

Please add efficiency scaling (drain, gain, or both) based on squad size.  A solo player should not be expected to kill as many enemies as a 4-man squad, especially when they are given fewer enemies to kill.

[Tyanya]

1 hour ago, Callback said:

Please add efficiency scaling (drain, gain, or both) based on squad size.  A solo player should not be expected to kill as many enemies as a 4-man squad, especially when they are given fewer enemies to kill.

Not to mention that a 4 man squad can cover a much greater area, that includes layered floors too, tilesets like Lua or the one on Mars which is over 3 floors is a nightmare for a solo player, looking at the minimap with Enemy Sense / Animal Instinct on these tilesets looks quite chocked full of mobs where in fact on each floor they're quite scarce.

It would lovely if there was a gradual curve of challenge that really starts to kick in around zone 10 or so, but make sure that getting to zone 9 is achievable not using the meta as a baseline, also maybe try to smooth the RNG out of the journey to zone 9, (normal mode) if you get infested on a good tileset from zones 5-8 you're laughing, where as if you get Grineer with Eximus Nox and Maniacs you feel like giving up right there and then.

Cheers

[plznohurtme]

It has been over a week since the changes to Sanctuary Onslaught and since it was changed Normal mode has been relatively impossible to clear z8 solo.  We have had 3 patches since the change with no adjustment in any way, so I just assume that solo players are being told to pay plat for maiming strike (since it isn't currently available as a drop) and hope for a melee range riven (or again buy with plat) or don't bother even trying to get Khora.  The enemy mob health etc which the workshop article only cited Elite clearly was applied to Normal as well which is undoubtedly part of the problem.

Personally I don't care about getting beyond z8 solo on normal, but I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that clearing z8 should be possible to do with reasonably good gear.  As it stands right now Sanctuary Onslaught was turned into a screw you to solo players (the first week it wasn't anywhere near as hard to clear z8).  The absolute silence from DE regarding this fact despite it being explained repeatedly isn't doing any favors either.  With any luck there will be some acknowledgment (with preferably a fix en route), but at this point unfortunately I'm not holding my breath which is extremely disappointing to say the least.

Below is the workshop article I'm referring to which only cites changes to elite despite the fact that it was clearly both modes.

 

 

[Praesagium]

Yeah man, i feel you, and for me large maps kill the efficency on solo, if you are lucky you get infested in one tile set and your efficency gets stable again. And like you say i dont care for zone 9, i just want to clear zone 8 without spamming maiming strike, but idk if DE still thinks to make another hotfix to make the gamemode solo friendly or they just dont care anymore.

Lets hope the best, for now.

hace 45 minutos, plznohurtme dijo:

It has been over a week since the changes to Sanctuary Onslaught and since it was changed Normal mode has been relatively impossible to clear z8 solo.  We have had 3 patches since the change with no adjustment in any way, so I just assume that solo players are being told to pay plat for maiming strike (since it isn't currently available as a drop) and hope for a melee range riven (or again buy with plat) or don't bother even trying to get Khora.  The enemy mob health etc which the workshop article only cited Elite clearly was applied to Normal as well which is undoubtedly part of the problem.

Personally I don't care about getting beyond z8 solo on normal, but I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that clearing z8 should be possible to do with reasonably good gear.  As it stands right now Sanctuary Onslaught was turned into a screw you to solo players (the first week it wasn't anywhere near as hard to clear z8).  The absolute silence from DE regarding this fact despite it being explained repeatedly isn't doing any favors either.  With any luck there will be some acknowledgment (with preferably a fix en route), but at this point unfortunately I'm not holding my breath which is extremely disappointing to say the least.

Below is the workshop article I'm referring to which only cites changes to elite despite the fact that it was clearly both modes.

 

 

 

[Edzhang]

I just cleared zone 8 on elite onslaught with wukong and my heavy blade melee zaw (did it solo), and i didnt build it for maiming strike but with condition overload.. my main problem is there’s some tileset (for example, zone 7 tileset) have a bad spawn rate, i lost like 50% efficiency just from this zone.. please take a look on the spawn rate, i dont mind if we’ll face more enemies, cause if we can kill more enemies, we dont really need to worry about efficiency drain..

[Yrkul]

Sanctuary Onslaught got really old really fast, to the point where I feel the Khora parts aren't even worth it.

Can we have some interesting content now? Like story content, or REAL stealth missions?

[BethTheBean]

I would love to see a the amount of relics cut in half. As it stands, the reward table for each rotation is over 50% relics. 

This is a hindrance , not a challenge . 

[tucker_d_dawg]

13 minutes ago, VoightIsMySpiritAnimal said:

I would love to see a the amount of relics cut in half. As it stands, the reward table for each rotation is over 50% relics. 

 

The number of lith and meso relics I'm accumulating is stupid.  Of course they made the axi 2% and only on Rot C. Better Axi rewards from Xini - and faster too.  TBH I don't know what to replace it with ... if they increase the part drop chance, people will complain in a month they have 30 sets and don't need another.  Kuva and you have the riven haters up in arms.  Endo you have others with raised pitchforks.  Mods - Everyone loses.

The worst part of ESO is that it exemplifies everything that is wrong with press 4 to win and slide-crit builds.  And there seems to be ZERO response from DE on any possible changes to the mechanics.  For that matter they don't even address the glaring efficiency deficiency that results in requiring the nuke or blender.  Personally I think they refuse to make a change because that would potentially delay the release on console - which would delay plat sales of khora and/or have the console users up in arms about the delay.  

And as primarily a console player, I wish they would delay it, change it, and introduce something worth playing.  On PC i do it every day because they never addressed the poor focus gains in regular gameplay - and vomit a little in my mouth every time I cast crush or pop maim or see another rhino sliding back and forth with a 15m atterax.

 

[Zilotz]

On 2018-05-01 at 12:37 AM, Hayde615 said:

A seven forma Amprex with fully-leveled mods barely tickle Grineer and Corrupted. Why?

Maybe use corrosive+slash build and aim for heads? 

Also a good melee can hurt them much by using (corrosive/viral)+slash statuses.

 

[(PSN)sinner_bh]

Hi, PS4 player here, I am not sure if DE is aware but toxic lash isn't working. The timer doesn't show, the contagion cloud augment doesn't trigger yet the energy for the cast is drained, it doesn't seem to be working, if it is I am not seeing any effects that show so. And it doesn't seem to work inside or outside onslaught.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

After about 24 hours of bashing my head against this mode I came to the conclusion that it isn't worth my time. I'm better off doing bounties for the new Zaw parts with a chance to get Augur Secrets, which easily sells for 80 plat and then can pay for Khora the next time I get a 75% discount. Not to mention all the other resources and general progress (mining for arcane materials, rep for Zaws aka new MR etc) I make that way. It's more likely to get Augur Secrets and sell it and to get a 75% coupon before I get all Khora parts in onslaught at the moment, which should tell you how askew the difficulty vs. reward balancing currently is in onslaught. It's also way easier and more enjoyable to do Tier 4 and 5 bounties. I like to have no limitations on my ability usage.

I'm also better off running fissures and selling Primes to buy Braton and Lato Vandal instead of going into elite mode. After that the only thing left in onslaught are captura scenes and relics I don't need... oh and the peculiar mod.

I guess what I'm saying is that you go into onslaught and more likely than not go out with NOTHING. Sure some focus and Endo might be in it, but really I have almost 70k Endo and a bunch of statues and duplicate mods lying around at this point.

My suggestion would be either to move Khora and the Vandal weapons elsewhere and instead make it a mission to grind relics (upgraded and not upgraded, maybe always the ones of the newest primes to maintain relevancy of the mode, although the last part might impact the economy heavily, it's just a thought) with a chance for captura scenes and peculiar mods each round (not every two rounds) and without AABC rotation but a single one each round or to more or less leave it as it is, but to make at least the first 8 zones somewhat enjoyable and clearable and not a frustration fest - here I'd also would like to see a reward each zone and not every two zones (see difficulty vs reward balance and better alternatives I mentioned above).

Otherwise a lot of the things have already been mentioned: solo players being left out (this also expands to other modes like survival to a lesser degree I might add), disconnects(getting stuck in the loading screen (rarely though), people leaving after two zones for various reasons (for example because they use onslaught to level their equipment and once done leave the rest hanging), terrible tilesets respectively spawns and/or aggro behaviour (this applies mostly to Grineer and Corpus and almost not at all to Infested as far as I can tell), having to search 10-20 seconds for enemies on some tilesets, ability limitations locking out the majority of the warframe roster to be able to succeed in this mode (you can even get a full Tridolon run in with any frame combination each night as long as you mod your weapon(s) correctly, heck you can probably even do it solo - in onslaught you either cheese/meta or you are guaranteed to completely waste your time, which in turn means pubs also will fail most of the time). If this is supposed to be the "arcady, fun, jump right into the action" mode, then why does it require me to spend 10 minutes (if not more) to look for a squad full of meta requirements to even just have a somewhat decent chance to complete ONE full rotation of rewards and why is almost not accessible at all for anything below a full squad and borderline broken for solo players?

A thing I also experienced was that I entered the next zone, did my thing, then fell into a hole and was teleported back to the old zone and then the conduit timer ran out and it "kicked" me out as if I actually didn't go to through it in the first place.

Another thing is that as a console player I and (I'd dare to assume) the majority don't have macros. We can't "drive" our Atterax across the map in order to keep up with the efficiency decay on elite and we also have a more clunky movement with controllers in general to navigate the map quickly. That's something that should maybe also be considered into the difficulty you apply to the game when it comes to reaching one full rotation.

And while this all sounds negative - well, it IS - I really would like this mode to become what it was advertised as: "The arcady fun combat mode, to farm focus in and get rewarded.". Right now it's frustratingly broken in some places and unbalanced when it comes to encouraging me to invest my time into playing this mode. Right now, I can say I would never play it again, if I have Khora and the two weapons, which - to me - isn't a good thing. Just to name an example where it went very well: fissures were a huge upgrade to the old tower system. I own all primes, but I still run them for fun, leveling and the rewards frequently - they respect my time, reward me enough and also reward me to have invested time in my builds and collection of options.

I understand that this mode is designed to make me ultimately "fail", but I also think it's not unreasonable to ask to be able to complete a full rotation somewhat reasonably in a full squad down to a solo player, when I am doing my best and come with a fully forma'd complete loadout.

This post is/was based on update 22.18.8 (PS4).