Conclave feedback on U 22.19.0 / edit2 "Dual keres, ignis, maximum zaw are OP too"

[korndolorous]

Feedback on U 22.19.0

I will keep the list update on every update that have new weapon, conclave change.

Venari issue got fixed

Spoiler

Venari still OP, yeah as i said he still op even he got nerfed, but that's not enough

• damage still from 1 hit kill to 2 hits kill, it's almost no different ( from 0.3 sec kill to 0.7 sec it's almost nothing )  1 combo deal 4 hits, so it kill you anyway unless you have invincible ability like puddle.
• no energy cost, and spawn when khora spawn.
• no duration
• high hp compare to other warframe
• smart AI, that can jump and latch the wall
• high running speed
• long attack range, Venari doesn't require to get close to the enemy to deal damage, it just need to detect any enemy in 5m range, without missing (auto-lock)

My suggestion in case that you cant change ability

• reduce more damage to 10 damage per hit, because he can atack really fast ( i know that it's hard to have change ability because it's link with PVE )
• reduce hp to 50
• change attack speed to 0.5/ can attack enemy only 1 hit in 2 second.
• double model size (hitbox size), so everyone can see it/ kill it easier.
• no slash proc

 

EDIT 2 

Dual keres, even damage has been reduced but it's still op

• nerf change from 1 hit kill to 2 hit kill, this change is almost nothing with 1.5 attack speed / need more damage reduction with this current speed

Ignis bloom 

• even though damage has been reduce, but still hard to see the enemy because energy bloom is too bright ( like flash)/ too dark (like smoke grenade)

Zaws with maximing build are op

• Zaw with long grip has higher range than most of polearms weapon.
• with strike (+damage - attack spd) +Korb or Sthung + rahung II, it can 1 hit kill every frame (except Inaros with +hp mod )
• Dokrahm with long grip has longest range of heavy sword, (almost 2 time longer)
• Balla + peye + jai II has fastest attack speed of dagger ( with heatseeker mod it can kill enemy easily )

Need nerf now! - ( like ignis case it break the game ) ******

• Zaw with Korb or Sthung grip, with rahung II, can 1 hit kill anything
• Khora's Venari
• Dual keres

**** Important Nerf list ( cheese meta atm ) ***** 

• Zaw Dagger
• Arca plasmor
• loki decoy
• machete series
• impair/knockdown ability with 25 energy cost

previous feedback that didn't get fixed.

Conclave feed back on U22.18.0

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by korndolorous

[low1991]

45 minutes ago, korndolorous said:

Venari still OP, yeah as i said he still op even he got nerfed, but that's not enough

• damage still from 1 hit kill to 2 hits kill, it's almost no different ( from 0.3 sec kill to 0.7 sec it's almost nothing ) 
• no energy cost, and spawn when khora spawn.
• no duration
• high hp compare to other warframe
• smart AI, that can jump and latch the wall
• high running speed
• long attack range, Venari doesn't require to get close to the enemy to deal damage, it just need to detect any enemy in 5m range, without missing (auto-lock)

When i look at this. I thought "isn't this what kavat do in PvE mission?", then "Oh ya, kavat are OP in PvP".

On topic, maybe DE should make Venari attack (normal/current) when #3 is pressed?

[This-Is-What-You-Are]

+1..

I dont know if de tought about Kora balance when implemented, for me the cat have to be summon with energy or cant revive after first kill on him, else is 2v1 and that thing is broken if you go near him

[Dax-Robocop]

+1 but you are missing the fact that Venari does not need to finish the attack animation facing you  in a 5m range to deal damage. You instantly get the damage if it is around half finished and that can very well mean that you do a bullet jump in the moment when Venari locks on you and you die in the middle of the air 10m away from Venari.

[Nazrethim]

I said ut in another thread but it's worth saying here:

Nerf all melee weapons damage by 50% >>> add channeling (that works with the weapons own energy bar like amps) that counters that nerf (so basically 100% channl dmg) then remove all knockdowns from quickmelee.

And finally normalize melee weapons stats by type (all weapons of the same type having same overall damage, speed, range, etc)

[Dusteon]

Your proposed Venari changes would make it literally a useless ability on the level of Nyx's 3 in 1 v All. Venari has 140 health, relatively low movement speed, and her 'wall latch' is only done when she's trying to look cool while attacking someone. Likewise, I don't think I need to mention how laughable it is to call Venari "smart AI" when on almost every map she has at least 1 area she gets permanently stuck, and many, many areas she can't attempt to pathfind to or from.

Venari needs nerfs yes, but not guttings. Making the damage terrible, and then also making her attacks very slow, and then also doubling her hitbox and making her die in less then a second to every single weapon, melee, and frame power makes her useless. There would be no reason to ever even attempt to use Venari then because she'd take 8+ seconds for a single attack, do bad damage for that attack, and die if anyone so much as looked at her.

[-Dren-]

Venari can kill 3 stack of Nidus hmmm...And the spam with little energy.

[(XBOX)oI Power Io]

Let's nerf Venari again and make her usless for PVE so the 3 People that actually play the soo "Balanced" Conclave mode where you can Onshot people with Mags 4 and basicly instand win with Loki or Rihno are finally don't have to deal with one Charakter beeing good now.

Instead of making Conclave with Balanced Loadouts where nobody has a Advantage. Goooood Idea

[(XBOX)oI Power Io]

Am 7.5.2018 um 19:59 schrieb Nazrethim:

I said ut in another thread but it's worth saying here:

Nerf all melee weapons damage by 50% >>> add channeling (that works with the weapons own energy bar like amps) that counters that nerf (so basically 100% channl dmg) then remove all knockdowns from quickmelee.

And finally normalize melee weapons stats by type (all weapons of the same type having same overall damage, speed, range, etc)

The Need too Double better Triple the Base Meele damage at least to make the wepons that are based on Combo Counter not near to Absolut useless and a Heavy attack needs too be able to deal with lvl 120+ or meele wepons will not be anything near sortie ready anymore 

[Nazrethim]

hace 13 horas, (XB1)LegBreakingNora dijo:

The Need too Double better Triple the Base Meele damage at least to make the wepons that are based on Combo Counter not near to Absolut useless and a Heavy attack needs too be able to deal with lvl 120+ or meele wepons will not be anything near sortie ready anymore 

I¡m talking specifically about Conclave here. For PvE we need chained stance combos to be the main source of damage, not easily spammable attacks.

[SevenLetterKWord]

This thread is outdated. Venari's damage was significantly nerfed in 22.20.0, and is now a non-issue.

On 2018-05-07 at 11:03 AM, Dusteon said:

Your proposed Venari changes would make it literally a useless ability on the level of Nyx's 3 in 1 v All.

In Annihilation, Nyx's Chaos makes Nyx immune to all damage from affected targets. It is an incredibly strong ability, and objectively superior to Terrify.
Let's not forget that, at any damage output, Venari is still a free passive that absorbs damage and attention while boosting Khora's speed.

13 hours ago, (XB1)LegBreakingNora said:

Let's nerf Venari again and make her usless for PVE so the 3 People that actually play the soo "Balanced" Conclave mode where you can Onshot people with Mags 4 and basicly instand win with Loki or Rihno are finally don't have to deal with one Charakter beeing good now.

Instead of making Conclave with Balanced Loadouts where nobody has a Advantage. Goooood Idea

Fantastic feedback.
I especially like the part where you demonstrated a clear understanding of the fact that PvE and Conclave can have independent balancing and mechanics, although I have to say, my favorite is the part where you constructed a single coherent sentence.

13 hours ago, (XB1)LegBreakingNora said:

The Need too Double better Triple the Base Meele damage at least to make the wepons that are based on Combo Counter not near to Absolut useless and a Heavy attack needs too be able to deal with lvl 120+ or meele wepons will not be anything near sortie ready anymore 

Nevermind. I have a new favorite part, and it's the part where you are capable of remembering whether this thread deals with Conclave or with PvE.

[Dusteon]

25 minutes ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

This thread is outdated. Venari's damage was significantly nerfed in 22.20.0, and is now a non-issue.

In Annihilation, Nyx's Chaos makes Nyx immune to all damage from affected targets. It is an incredibly strong ability, and objectively superior to Terrify.
Let's not forget that, at any damage output, Venari is still a free passive that absorbs damage and attention while boosting Khora's speed.

As of at least 1-2 minor patches before Khora's, Nyx's 3 does ??? in Conclave. On cast it does a minor stagger to all affected enemies, and then who knows. It does not give Nyx immunity to damage from those targets though, which is easily tested for yourself by entering Conclave, casting 3 near a bunch of enemies, and then getting exploded because they still damage you.

Venari as of right now is also easy to either ignore, or if Khora is trying to heal with it (and you aren't using the myriad of weapons that will just one shot her plain health) 1-2 shot before killing Khora. Venari is at best an annoyance now that can be pretty safely ignored or dispatched if you really hate cats doing minor damage to you.

[(PSN)DAYNICK101]

On May 24, 2018 at 7:42 AM, (XB1)LegBreakingNora said:

Let's nerf Venari again and make her usless for PVE so the 3 People that actually play the soo "Balanced" Conclave mode where you can Onshot people with Mags 4 and basicly instand win with Loki or Rihno are finally don't have to deal with one Charakter beeing good now.

Instead of making Conclave with Balanced Loadouts where nobody has a Advantage. Goooood Idea

Your lack of how Conclave Balanceing Compared to PvE is Showing. The Way the modes deal with Balance are completely separate from one another,so lets get the point Venari is Basically Khora Cructh for kills, and it involves no skill to use since it's a legit NPC that does it own thing, and 1hits or 2 hits most Tank Frames without much effort with unique abilitys that allow it to comeback indefinitely especially for a 3 ability. Regardless of a Damage Nerf I highly doubt it'll stop it from being used since like I said can be Indefinitely Revived with no Energy as well. Compared to the 4s you mention They can easily be Negated by actually having situational awareness, even then they  still give you a running chance to survive it wether it be moving out of it entirely, have a chance to Tank the Damage, or the Person who did it miss entirely. Venari certainly doesn't since the Thing can just look at you and your already dead.  So just to reiterate Venari is broken, just improve yourself with dealing with other 4s since they are more fair then you think, and Conclave balance , and PvE Balance are completely separate from one another.

[(PSN)DAYNICK101]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)DAYNICK101 said:

Your lack of how Conclave Balanceing Compared to PvE is Showing. The Way the modes deal with Balance are completely separate from one another,so lets get the point Venari is Basically Khora Cructh for kills, and it involves no skill to use since it's a legit NPC that does it own thing, and 1hits or 2 hits most Tank Frames without much effort with unique abilitys that allow it to comeback indefinitely especially for a 3 ability. Regardless of a Damage Nerf I highly doubt it'll stop it from being used since like I said can be Indefinitely Revived with no Energy as well. Compared to the 4s you mention They can easily be Negated by actually having situational awareness, even then they  still give you a running chance to survive it wether it be moving out of it entirely, have a chance to Tank the Damage, or the Person who did it miss entirely. Venari certainly doesn't since the Thing can just look at you and your already dead.  So just to reiterate Venari is broken, just improve yourself with dealing with other 4s since they are more fair then you think, and Conclave balance , and PvE Balance are completely separate from one another.

Just to reiterate I know Venari changes are going into effect So just ignore the bit about the nerf and stuff

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

Add blade whips to the list of op weapons and items. Garbage players using the same combos