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Please stop scaling EVERY aspect of an ability with level


Bulletjunkie
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3 minutes ago, rune_me said:

You're not gonna get a godlike ability for your Warframe until you get corrupted mods anyway. It doesn't matter if it max rank, without the right mods, it will only carry you so far. And by the time you start getting your corrupted mods, you should have absolutely no problem ranking a frame up to lvl 30. (also, you don't actually have to go to Hydron to rank a frame up, there are plenty of other options, also for new players)

New players should not be worrying about having incredible push-this-button.and-win abilities in the first place.

New players lack tools or any mods, their abilities are the one that can help them without anything else. If they received an ability then it needs to be useful at that point, If they have to wait for mods or another point to make that ability useful then that's just another proof that the system is broken.

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Personally I wish we could have some sort of revisitation of the 'ability mod cards' that existed a very long time ago. Then, if we preferred an ability to be low level, we could, or if we wanted to have a max-level ability early on, we could do that too.

Maybe have the frame get 'ability points' as it levels that can be spent on any ability you want. Start with one point, get a point every 2 levels (16 points total). If you want to start with an unranked 4th at level 0, go ahead. If you want to never rank up your 2nd past unranked, go ahead. If you want to max out your 3rd at level 6, you can.

This would allow for greater build diversity and make leveling something that isn't limited to Hydron and Akkad, because you can rank up and max the abilities your build is focused on (or that can be good even with an unfinished mod loadout), allowing you to level elsewhere if you wanted to.

Imagine using a rank 10 Trinity with a level 1 EV and a level 3 Bless. You could support your team effectively and level up passively. Or having a maxed 1st and 2nd as a rank 14 Nidus. The number of potential mid-rank builds would be endless, and would make leveling your frame more fun and less of a chore.

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Every single ability Excalibur gets is usable & useful the moment its unlocked.

A Warframe/weapon at rank 0 with a catalyst/reactor at MR 25 gets 50/50 mod capacity without a stance/aura, a few selected Primes dont even need forma to be useful, MR helpes allot. We can also complete new Syndacates like Quills in just a few weeks, while lower MR only add on the days & months it could take.

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38 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

New players lack tools or any mods, their abilities are the one that can help them without anything else. If they received an ability then it needs to be useful at that point, If they have to wait for mods or another point to make that ability useful then that's just another proof that the system is broken.

But they don't have to wait for mods. Abilities are useful when received by new players, as long as they are used in the context of how far a new players has progressed (of course this is generalizing, since some abilities are obviously just plain better than others, and some are all but useless). Yeah, strangeldome at rank 1 is useless on Hydron. But a new player does not have access to Hydron. On the other hand, a new player might quickly gain access to Spear on Mars. And rank 1 strangledome can still make short work of lancers and butcher there, even if it only last 5 seconds.

The OP seems to think that a rank 10 warframe should perform stellar in a sortie mission. But it just won't. A rank 30, formaed warframe however will. A rank 10 frame will work just fine for lower level content, though, that is more appropriate to that level.

Edited by rune_me
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Another one of those non-issues that people are so invested into making a big deal out of.

It's supposed to be lackluster to incentivise you to level up.

Even if it's not for that, the time it takes to level up a frame is so insignificant that it really doesn't warrant any change regardless of MR. 

If we ignore the fact that no low MR player with no essential mods will be even close to getting khora without buying plat. Even if the scaling is changed,  the experience of that player will not change as he lacks the mods for the scaling to make a difference.

So let's not make an issue out of basic player progression.

Edited by Midrib
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As someone who plays other games with scaling abilities, I personally don’t mind the scaling. However, when I was a new player, the scaling of Ash made me think he was worthless and I ditched playing him the moment I hit level 30 so I can understand the sentiment.  The scaling should probably be turned down so an ability that lasts 10 seconds at max level isn’t 3 seconds when first acquired. 

But at the same time, like others have said, one can’t fill build anyway until 30 so some of the point is moot as experimentation is stunted until the abilities are maxed. 

Im a little torn on the best approach 

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1 minute ago, rune_me said:

But they don't have to wait for mods. Abilities are useful when received by new players, as long as they are received in the context of how far a new players has progressed (of course this is generalizing, since some abilities are obviously just plain better than others, and some are all but useless). Yeah, strangeldome at rank 1 is useless on Hydron. But a new player does not have access to Hydron. On the other hand, a new player might quickly gain access to Spear on Mars. And rank 1 strangledome can still make short work of lancers and butcher there, even if it only last 5 seconds.

The OP seems to think that a rank 10 warframe should perform stellar in a sortie mission. But it just won't. A rank 30, formaed warframe however will. A rank 10 frame will work just fine for lower level content, though, that is more appropriate to that level.

OP didn't imply that, he simply imply that durations are just too quick to be useful. You're the one that keeps making exagerration that we want the abiility to be OP when unranked. And what about unranked speed that only gives 5s duration of 10% speed boost? Ash smoke bomb with invisibility that only last for 2s? 35 energy for stagger? They barely show any function disregard of enemies levels. Several abilities starts at short durations and then doubles or quadrupples at max rank, while some other abilities start at good duration and then increase little by little while some other abilities have same duration on all ranks. You're overthinking something that is really  just a result of bad balance

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4 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

OP didn't imply that, he simply imply that durations are just too quick to be useful. You're the one that keeps making exagerration that we want the abiility to be OP when unranked. And what about unranked speed that only gives 5s duration of 10% speed boost? Ash smoke bomb with invisibility that only last for 2s? 35 energy for stagger? They barely show any function disregard of enemies levels. Several abilities starts at short durations and then doubles or quadrupples at max rank, while some other abilities start at good duration and then increase little by little while some other abilities have same duration on all ranks. You're overthinking something that is really  just a result of bad balance

I never really had a problem with low duration. When I rank a frame I rarely rely on their abilities in the first place. I think it is you and the OP that is making a big deal out of a very small thing.

I obviously would not be against improving the duration of low level abilities. Hey, better abilities for me, I'm not going to complain about that. I just don't see it as an issue, the way it is now.

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The whole point of this game is progression. The more you work for it, the better you get. What I'm hearing from these people is "I want everything to be handed to me on a silver plater and have as little work as possible!" If you can't stand being strong right off the bat, and just want everything given to you without the work, you're clearly not understanding the premise of this entire game.

The whole thing is about working to meet "end game goals." So focus on the goals, and work for it. It isn't all that hard to level warframes, even when I did it on Apollodorus years back. 

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Just now, rune_me said:

I never really had a problem with low duration. When I rank a frame I rarely rely on their abilities in the first place. I think it is you and the OP that is making a big deal out of a very small thing.

I obviously would not be against improving the duration of low level abilities. Hey, better abilities for me, I'm not going to complain about that. I just don't see it as an issue, the way it is now.

Just because it didn't matter for you, never means it's not an issue. 

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Just now, Zeclem said:

man so many people are acting as if op wants to have the best abilities at lvl 0 of a frame. sheesh. no wonder why people often ignore this forum community.

Because OP complained that his abilities were useless on Hydron. Which is like the last planet on the star chart.

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Just now, rune_me said:

Because OP complained that his abilities were useless on Hydron. Which is like the last planet on the star chart.

no he/she said "it can ruin first player experience, and wf already has issues keeping new players in". read more carefully. 

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Just now, Zeclem said:

no he/she said "it can ruin first player experience, and wf already has issues keeping new players in". read more carefully. 

He/she also said, after being told to go to Hydron to rank up:

1 hour ago, Bulletjunkie said:

I did, which is how I noticed how weak the ability is.

If you compare the quality of an ability on how well it performs in Hydron or beyond, then pretty much any rank1 ability is going to feel lackluster.

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Just now, rune_me said:

He/she also said, after being told to go to Hydron to rank up:

im pretty certain that his whole point is the ability is weak from the start for a new player(which leaves a bad impression on new players, hes right), and he has never shown that abilities being weak for hydron as the actual problem. he just stated that they are weak. 

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3 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

im pretty certain that his whole point is the ability is weak from the start for a new player(which leaves a bad impression on new players, hes right), and he has never shown that abilities being weak for hydron as the actual problem. he just stated that they are weak. 

Their exact words were " some new player decides to buy Khora from the Market ".

Buy it from the market.

Buyer's remorse. I hated Trinity as a frame. Not complaining because I didn't blindly pay hard cash for her.

Edited by FillyRarity
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2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

im pretty certain that his whole point is the ability is weak from the start for a new player(which leaves a bad impression on new players, hes right), and he has never shown that abilities being weak for hydron as the actual problem. he just stated that they are weak. 

But he is wrong about that as well. See if you don't compare it to Hydron, but to something more appropriate to a new player and a rank 10 frame, it is actually fine. At rank 1 strangledome lasts 5 seconds and deals 100 damage per second to anyone caught in it. That is 500 points of damage. Plus damage caused to one enemy will be spread to other enemies. That is easily enough to deal with grunt enemies in the earlier parts of the star chart where a rank 1 ability can be expected to be functional.

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2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

But he is wrong about that as well. See if you don't compare it to Hydron, but to something more appropriate to a new player and a rank 10 frame, it is actually fine. At rank 1 strangledome lasts 5 seconds and deals 100 damage per second to anyone caught in it. That is 500 points of damage. Plus damage caused to one enemy will be spread to other enemies. That is easily enough to deal with grunt enemies in the earlier parts of the star chart where a rank 1 ability can be expected to be functional.

hes not wrong about that. 2 of the starter frames are very underwhelming when not modded semi decently compared to average from the start. rank 10 volt or mag is not fine. 

3 minutes ago, FillyRarity said:

Their exact words were " some new player decides to buy Khora from the Market ".

Buy it from the market.

Buyer's remorse. I hated Trinity as a frame. Not complaining because I didn't blindly pay hard cash for her.

and everybody else is exactly same as you and the issue is only related with khora. 

cus appearently everybody has to know the game from the start right? RIGHT?

Edited by Zeclem
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