Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[lukinu_u]

The build is great but as Miasma have 0% status chance, you could improve the build by using corrosive instead of gas on your melee weapon. I used to play gas on my melee too, to get benefit from the additionnal spore damages, but have another status status to cast is a lot better with Condtion Overload.

Also, Quick Thinking is both a wasted slot and loss of energy in my opinion, if you can manage your health with Regenerative Molt or switching to your Operator, especially if you don't use armor mods.

Exept this, the build seems good !
(And thanks for buying my skin :3 )

[Mimibomber]

I already feel them scaping her new one after a month.

But I'm kinda hyped for this rework.

[BeeWhyOhBee]

finally !!! its not a 'just-melee-saryn-toxic-lash' build anymore !!! 

- so the spores is just a single cast, pop it and it spreads to everyone? no need to spam anymore

- new molt is an awesome upgrade, cant wait to test that one out. And curious to how the new Miasma'd work 

- same, toxic lash is hhnrnngngnhnhnnnice 

 

now i think this new Saryn wont be needing too much duration :O 

Edited May 10, 2018 by BeeWhyOhBee

[MezzoM5]

Few things:

Stats: Thank you. Was getting a little sick of Quick Thinking.

Spore: Spread sounds really nice, actually. Always did have trouble keeping them up without more than just Stretch on. But I would rather not have Corrosive because Viral is really useful against a lot of enemies. What will this do against the Corpus who usually don't bring armor against you?

Molt: I like that idea, makes it actually last long enough to pick someone up or hack security systems. But don't remove being able to place spores on it, it's really handy to have in a pinch!

Toxic Lash: Thank you for considering all weapons for this. But also, don't remove the energy regen part of spores. At least just nerf it to one energy per spore if you are claiming that she is barely losing energy. Again, this mechanic saves people in a pinch so much more often than is believed. Just putting it to one wouldn't make primary/secondary weapons too powerful in that regard.

Miasma: Love the damage and duration buffs. But again, not fond of switching damage types with Spore for reasons I've stated. 

Conclusion: Overall these sound very good. Only thing I'm not 100% on board with us the viral/corrosive switch and effective removal of those aforementioned synergies with Spore. They were actually very useful in a pinch. I'd say the inability of putting Spores on Molt hurts the least since you do claim that it will be easier to spread Spores.

[Feltal]

1 minute ago, MezzoM5 said:

Few things:

Stats: Thank you. Was getting a little sick of Quick Thinking.

I don't think 75 more armor is going to make you drop quick thinking.

[estevaoM]

the changes seems realy nice except for the damage type change on spores, i personaly don`t see any sene in corrosive spores, instead why not change spores to toxin and toxic lash to corrosive?

Edited May 10, 2018 by estevaoM

[Arniox]

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Spores changed from Viral to Corrosive damage, which repurposes it as a great tool to strip armor from enemies

I was about to say. Viral would have been insanely powerful on infitely scaling damage and duration. Corrosive sounds really useful. 

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

When an enemy affected by Spores dies, they spread to surrounding enemies. This makes it much easier to keep Spores active.

This is really good because it felt ligitimately hard to upkeep spores without them fading 

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Venom Dose Augment Change: Spores cast on allies temporarily grant them additional Corrosive (was Toxin) damage to all attacks.

Very nice 

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Spores optimization! Under certain circumstances, Spores has been known to cause framerate issues in its current state. With the spreading nature of Spores in the rework, we’ve decreased the CPU burden which has made a noticeable change to the ability’s overall performance while active. There is still room for improvement but we’re fairly happy with the results so far!  

Always love these changes. Please do more cpu optimizations. My CPU is super potato

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Molt will now scale similar to Rhino’s Iron Skin - All the initial damage it takes in the first few seconds will make it stronger. Any damage it receives after that point will target the absorbed health (Damage absorbed will show in a buff indicator in the UI). Once it reaches 0, Molt explodes dealing Toxin damage to nearby enemies. 

Can you possibly have a look at 'buff' icons? Now days, in the right squad, there's Wayyy too many buff icons and I don't know what half of them do. Can you maybe put all the buffs on the left side of the screen with their actual name next to them? All buffs build up in a vertical line going down the left side of the screen with an actual name attached to each one. Plus, can you try get rid of duplicate icons like with Octavia? There's just way too many, and when you're resetting an Octavia buff, it duplicates the icon. 

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

So we’re sharing its Toxin with the lot of your Arsenal! Toxic Lash’s Toxin damage buff in Saryn’s revisit is now granted to ANY weapon in your Loadout (Primary, Secondary, and Melee). In maintaining its roots, the damage buff on Melee weapons is doubled. 

This is a very cool change. Thank you so much

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Changed Miasma’s damage type from Corrosive to Viral. 

• *We've swapped Miasma and Spores damage types with one another since Spores in its 2.0 form allows for more than 1 proc per second

 

Understandable. It'll be quite nice, being able to blast people with a massive dose of viral. 

[TALISMAN_XVII]

6 minutes ago, WinterSaber said:

She still has viral in her 4 ability - so she wont be useless. Just will need another build. Having endless ability with 50% viral proc that hits every second is total OP.

I don't know about you, but I relied on Spores as a staple to propagate viral procs, Miasma wouldn't be as effective regardless of the status chance.

[Weegeeception]

Really? Saryn is fine as she is right now. Please DE, look at other frames in need for a Real rework, like Wukong for example. Spores are now dependent on Miasma to kill enemies, especially when fighting Corpus or Infested. And if new Players don't know about abilities, then its not really the fault of the Frame, its in the explanation of the abilities in the Game. Im worried that you Guys Overkill her with this Rework. Toxic Leash alone seems too overpowered so that she is gonna get nerfed hard after this Rework.

I like Saryn very much, please DE don't change her.

[Jimmy_TheBear]

I don't know if this would work well or not but....

I do play Saryn alot right now and love the play style of going around and popping spores while they spread to everything, but I was thinking that it would be so cool if you could somehow switch the type of damage they do vs. certain enemies.

To do this in cool ways would be nice too, like changing the cast of spores to just regular physical damage but whatever type of damage pops it the rest of the spread takes that type of damage. 

Or pull a page from chroma and the different energy colors change the type of damage.

Or just making a mod for it... idk

Like I said, I love playing Saryn, this is just something I thought would be super cool. Thank you for the great game, keep up the good work!!!

[Hamsterius]

I'd consider it a massive buff list if not for the damage changes, which are enough to make me consider this an overall omni-nerf. Corrosive is vastly inferior to Viral. It's weaker if not outright useless against corpus and infested, and even against grineer slashing their HP by half may possibly be better than armor stripping.(I'm not sure between their health and armor which one scales harder with their levels) But even if it's not, we have four factions in the game.(sentients not counting) We move from an element that's useful against at least three of them, to an element that's only useful against two of them, maybe. Add in the fact that Corrosive Projection is a thing, and the value of corrosive goes even further into the dirt. If the entire idea is to make her 4 seem more useful or something, it's extremely misguided. You want her 4 to be used more, make it better. Don't make us be forced to use it to replace something we lost. (Which some would argue is what happened with the previous rework, but I'd say free viral procs are better than just a plain nuke. They are also better than free corrosive procs.)

Now if the idea really is to nerf her because you consider viraling half the map too OP, that's a different thing. Some would argue that it is too broken, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I won't argue whether she should be nerfed, I'll just say that in my opinion that's what she'll be getting from you so if you're not trying to nerf her, don't touch the damage type. Just keep spores viral. You don't have to do anything, quite the opposite, you have to not do things. It's really easy to not do something, it's harder to do something.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

I'll ditto the desire for damage reduction in place of a speed boost on Molt. I have never used Molt and had the thought "I wish I were faster."

[Hayde615]

When an enemy affected by Spores dies, they spread to surrounding enemies. This makes it much easier to keep Spores active.    

• *Developer Note: We are particularly apprehensive about Spores behaving this way since we’ve paired it with an already experimental mechanic  - it is the most likely portion of the rework to be highly reconsidered before launch.   

 

Honestly I like this tidbit more than the other rework? I feel like I'm going to get a lot of crap for this. Mind you the ability to detonate all spores by simply recasting it is fantastic, but this particular re-work I hope goes to live and doesn't get an immediate nerf. Right now, a spore-based Saryn works best (in my personal experience) with high level enemies. With low level enemies they die so fast that the spores never spread. Having it spread regardless of level--now on the contingency of death makes easier for me to select Saryn regardless of what level mission or mobs I'm fighting, so as long as she fits the criteria for myself (solo) or a team. 

Just my two cents!

[Ikusias]

So far I'm massively pessimist on all the proposed changes...

- The change to spores from viral to corrosive is out of place both for the theme of the frame and for the existence of corrosive projection and Frost, we don't need another armor stripping method, we need armor scaling fixed or outright nerfed - enemies with the tankines of battleships are a perversion.

- Spores infinite spreading and scalin? seeing what you did to volt, to ember and to banshee i don't think so, you'll find again the way to render the ability mediocre or downrigth useless.

- Toxic lash - probably the change that was more needed, remove any peculiar benefit to melee, Saryn isn't a melee frame for Lotus sake...

- Toxic lash - no more energy gain from popping sphores? just write out we need arcane energize and zenuric on ger by default don't you?

- armor increase - why the heck?! do you remember that's a CASTER FRAME? she's got no place with armor on par of an assault frame like Rhino and the like

- Molt + spores changes... really? the interaction that worked is the one you remove? did you guys forget that by sporing the molt there was no status proc transfer? only a way to spread sphores out of line of sight when necessary?

- Molt scaling - about damn time, ability being useless for far too long on it's supposed role, still Regenerative Molt should be part of the nase ability, not an augment

- Miasma element change... still not convinced about the switcharound of elements between sphores and miasma, #4 should be gas and have a persistant area of effect with stun on entry for incoming enemies, for its cost both CC and usability are mediocre

Tl:Dr - most changes are totally arbitrary while things that were asked for are ignored

I'm massively pessimistic on implementation of sphore changes, we will get  a laughably nerfed version for sure - also why the Heck frames that are in way worse state aren't being addressed first?

[TyrianMollusk]

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

With the new spreading nature of Spores, survivability of Molt, and the increase duration of Toxic Lash and Miasma, Saryn is no longer as Energy hungry as she used to be, so we’ve removed the 2 Energy restore on Spores burst by Toxic Lash.

As much as I dislike moving Viral away from spores, not being allowed to put spores where I want, and several other nuisance changes wrapped in PR back-patting, this stinks.  Some of us enjoyed Toxic Lash, and using it to regain energy was a really neat side feature for a melee oriented Saryn, and actually let you enjoy the occasional channel (remember that whole system?  this synergized with it a little, for once).

Please consider leaving the energy gain in *only* for the melee lash.  We really didn't need more melee damage, so trading it for energy and synergy is no fun.

Edited May 10, 2018 by TyrianMollusk

[Morthal]

55 minutes ago, IronWolfKnight said:

I'd argue making Spore corrosive is a massive improvement since although she will be somewhat less effective against Infested and Corpus, she will instead become extremely effective against Grineer and Corrupted due to their reliance on armour. One of my main criticisms of Saryn 2.0 was her inability to deal with armour effectively but the changes to Spore has on paper rectified that limitation to a massive degree.

Saryn was already effective against Grineer, she cut their hp down and CP + weapons or other warframe skills do the rest. Synergy. RIP

[AgrotheStrider]

These changes seem promising.

[Bismarke]

I'm sad to see the Spore-rigged-Molt biological landmine go, but otherwise these changes look awesome! I can't wait!

[zacRupnow]

Please make part of Saryn Primes skirt a fixed solid again to give her back the attitude she lost in Cloth 2.0, ever since than her Prime skirt has been flattened against her and it looks like a diaper.

[Xolgys]

as a saryn "main" (lets say we can legit use that term in WF) i am pretty hyped to improvements. i hope the toxin procc transmission of spores is still going to work since changing the type to corrosive means that its less important vs corpus and the infested procc wise.

does the spore and molt synergy still work though ?

toxic lash on all weapons sounds incredible tbh and is really needed, it was a dead ability for the most part unless someone gimmicked and played her for melee only.

improving miasmas damage like that whilst also going up on duration is nice. the synergy is stronger especially when considering that spores can easily strip armor. casting miasma as a finish for damage which also halves health is more effective when enemies have no armor since viral deals more damage to flesh generally. how strong she ends up being late game rly depends on the toxin procc transmission of spores and how quickly spores can strip armor. the infinite duration and scaling damage sounds really sweet but keeping spores up has never been an issue and it's never been expensive on molt with zenurik to back it up. the infinitely scaling damage kind of requires some form of refresh or infinite duration anyway otherwise it wouldnt be rly important to opt for.

i wonder though if miasma still deals 4x dmg if targets are affected by both spores and toxin procc ?

also any news on a miasma augment ? it could really use something creative/useful. buffing its sheer damage is nice and fine but the damage will fall off at some point. the viral procc will be useful always but the damage will be less important and by default 100 energy for an aoe viral procc and a small stun seems expensive.

other than these 1st thoughts i think we need ingame experience with the updated kit to judge if it needs more refinement. the intention and details sound nice all in all.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Xydeth

[Dwolfknight]

You know, the Saryn rework thread is there for this type of posts, no need to make a new one.

[Inspector]

Just now, lukinu_u said:

The build is great but as Miasma have 0% status chance, you could improve the build by using corrosive instead of gas on your melee weapon. I used to play gas on my melee too, to get benefit from the additionnal spore damages, but have another status status to cast is a lot better with Condtion Overload.

Also, Quick Thinking is both a wasted slot and loss of energy in my opinion, if you can manage your health with Regenerative Molt or switching to your Operator, especially if you don't use armor mods.

Exept this, the build seems good !
(And thanks for buying my skin :3 )

"Saryn pollutes the environment with a caustic mist, inflicting 250 / 275 / 300 / 350  Corrosive damage per tick to enemies within 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters over a duration of 3 seconds."
For some reason in my mind this has always read as Corrosive Proc. TIL Worth noting this incoming change could make Spores much better in this circumstance, but time will tell.

Reason I build gas is because on testing Gas damage procs Condition Overload a whooping three times. 180% damage per gas proc is insane, but I do have an alt build with Corrosive in mind. Unfortunately there is no quote for this that I can find other than using it and seeing a significant damage increase. 

Quick Thinking can be a pain in the ass to be certain, a good alternative would be Steel Fiber especially after her rework. I just hate being one shotted without a response to it, maybe they could fix the stagger instead of Saryn? Just a thought.  

Best skin for her in the game, which is saying a lot because her prime skin is great as well. You did a hell of a job, and the colors I like work really well with it.

[TyrianMollusk]

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We are giving Saryn a “voice” when she casts (voiced by [DE]Danielle), which will add character and make her feel more connected to the abilities as you cast them.

Yuck.  Did not want.  Do not want.  Do not voice our frames for us.  We don't need more noises to casts.

[(XBOX)xBlitzAttackerX]

As a lover of my Melee build Saryn most of these changes are a gleaming beauty in the darkness... The only real fault I have is the completely damaging idea of removing Viral from Spores and swapping it with Miasma's Corrosive... The halved health from the spreading Viral proc was the main reason I loved her... Please find a way to retain it in her new kit as the Corrosive proc just won't stand up in late game for anything other than Grineer, which would sadly kill the main reason I bring my Saryn. The other changes seem fantastic and I'd love to see how the "Infinite" Spores duration works but the "scaling damage" aspects being tied to consistently keeping the same Spore "batch" running is a dead end for any content beyond survival missions as most "wave" based content or inconsistent spawns kills the Spores damage growth... Still looking forward to these changes and hopeful these suggestions are taken into consideration, thank you for your time and trying to make sure this game is ever growing...

[Foxfire_kad]

Can I get an augment that changes her spores back to viral? or maybe it's naturally viral as before, but introduce an augment that can change it to corrosive?

As for the voice... No offense to the AWESOME voice talent you guys employ, but I'm not sure I like the idea of the warframes having a voice at all... it helps to make them more of a machine.  I approve of Valkyr's screams, mostly because they do not seem human, but primal, and her specific story seems to allow for it. Just me.