Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[Nyaa314]

14 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

When an enemy affected by Spores dies, they spread to surrounding enemies. This makes it much easier to keep Spores active.

 

14 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

With the new spreading nature of Spores

 

You did play 2015 version, right? Spores already do both of these things.

 

[Jiriiki]

As a frequent Saryn player, Thank You.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 2018-05-10 at 2:35 PM, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno!

Can you please elaborate on your point here? We would love to know what about the change to this part of "Spores" has you thinking this way 🙂

Hello @[DE]Aidan,

I know I'm not in the context of this message, but i will give something actually informative on it. I've been playing this game a long time and I'm a very visual and mathematical guy. So far, 99.99% of my predictions based on upon workshops of what will happen, have happened exactly as I predicted. So with my history in mind, I believe my post to be of large importance to you and the DE team.

 The molt change is really nice and probably the best part about this. I love the speed buff as it makes molt's purpose actually evident as a defensive procedure. Toxic lash being a closer second in approval as having it work on more weapons than melee is nice for using her in weapon restricted missions. Miasma getting viral damage makes sense and i am for this change because the viral spread is still there, while having miasma become a supportive dps power. I love the increase in duration as it makes mobility essential to her, which is good and viral spreading would not be hard.

The problem lies with the spores acting this way. I am very happy you have removed that spore turret molt combo, as not only was that too popular, it wasn't even her best use and because it "worked ok" players were wasting her better techniques as the reliance of molt and spore was all they needed. It was a tactic that didn't do anything really unique except save energy, that wasn't really a problem. An enemy did exactly the same job as molt. If you walk around a bit and do the same thing on enemies, grab an ignis, hit up a defense and you'll notice your tactic will work just as good, if not better.

My problem is with 2 things. Firstly, the scaling is false because while it scales infinitely, the rate will be killed off by itself. It's the cascading effect. If the spore scales, then it will either scale too slowly to matter and will not do anything substantial and die off, or too quickly and kill itself out. What i mean is that if the scaling spore damage will overpower the enemy's health, it will kill the enemy itself, spreading that to others and killing them too with even higher damage, creating cascade of kills. While this is nice in idea, it will kill out the spores and with it the scaling, because this cascading effect will keep going until there's no more enemies for it to reach, in which case, the spore dies out due to a lack of enemies at the time of spread. Then, you'll have to build back up from scratch, which will eventually take too long to do, and then saryn becomes a wash with slow scaling. At 5 minutes in, which is very low levels, the enemies were still taking a little longer than needed to die. I can only imagine a level 100 heavy in action on this tileset.

Even if you change the mechanic of enemy deaths spreading the spores, the spore will still kill itself out by over powering the enemies faster than you can spread it yourself. While star chart levels won't see the effects of this, in higher levels, this will become all too obvious. The time required to get her to the levels needed will be deemed too slow. In lower levels, she'll become the super nuke because the cascade will be very very quick. This was apparent in your stream, that even at solo play, which had no more than 8 enemies, the ball couldn't be kept rolling because the deaths were too fast and far in between, thus the kills were there, but the scaling was not. I think the highest you got to was 500 and it took all the enemies present to get there, then the spore killed itself off.

Plus, since it scales off of ticks and enemies hit, enemies will eventually out scale the spore, which will happen very quickly and stop saryn entirely. Her kps wouldn't even match up to endgame missions. If you reduce the scaling according to one faction, it won't stack up for the rest. If you make it too little, it won't get the job done. In missions with breaks in between, like interception or defense, she also loses her scaling every round, making it harder to maintain.

Secondly, by removing the toxin spread of spores, you have removed the saving grace of this possible change and taken away the entire purpose of using toxin with her, which is part of her theme. Now with this, what's the point of Toxin? It's nothing more than a small damage boost and a theme trick. Miasma doesn't need Toxin, spore doesn't carry it, and the sources don't do a substantial amount of it. There's really nothing in her kit that needs or benefits from toxin other than a small damage boost and neat effect to pass the time. Maybe condition overload lad, but that's it.

Toxin spreading spores was good in that it scaled off of damage done by toxin dot at the time of the spore being popped, which spread partially to other enemies. This didn't scale any more than the weapon you were using, but it was consistent, at least for those that understood it, which is not something to be ashamed of. Complex mechanics are not bad. Any mag main knows this to be true. Just needs some decent explaining.

The toxin spread means that you have 2 methods of the spores dealing their damage, which is your damage input and saryn's damage input. This means you get more dps towards your spore which is a plus to help push the scaling mechanic of the spore without it killing itself, because in lower levels, the spore's damage will be most prominent because the toxin will not be there to get, but in higher levels, the toxin damage is gonna help get your spore the kills to spread even with a spore damage less than the enemy's health, which stops it from overpowering the enemy, thus it prevents the cascading effect and prevents it from killing itself off, because the toxin itself is taking up some of the dps required to kill, so when it spreads, it won't be too strong for the enemy, and when the higher level enemy does come that starts out scaling the spore, you'll have the toxin effect in to help.

It's a win win.

Also, I'm not a fan of the venom dose getting changed to corrosive, as its buff is made useless when armor is stripped with the exception of infested, but if the teammate wanted corrosive, he would've built for corrosive, which a toxin based venom dose would help all the same, while also helping the guy using viral and the guy using toxin.

Just my critique and prediction from an old vet with a mind solely focused on warframe. Thank you very much for reading.

Edited May 18, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[zombiedeadhead]

I can't believe that anyone, anywhere, thought that there was a problem with Saryn's damage, either type or amount. Or that people used Molt as some sort of decoy tank. Saryn works, all of her abilities work, and are simple to understand. And there are plenty of synergies with 'non-melee' weapons, Ignis says Hi.

So, what is the point of any of this, except to make her more cookie-cutter, even more room clearing nuke just like so may other frames? And if you don;'t think that players will quickly work out how to game the damage scaling so that they can one shot universes, then you haven't been paying attention.

[den2k]

13 hours ago, Teloch said:

Why does the "heaviest" warframe that is depicted on my avatar has less armor than a caster?

It has less armor than many frames. I fear that an increase in its armor will nerf IS... which could still be a good idea if they keep it synergizing with Ironclad Charge and make it recastable by default (goodbye Iron Shrapnel and hello Reinforcing Stomp).

13 hours ago, Latiac said:

Corrosive is super bad in a full squad if everyone is running Corrosive Projection,

Maybe people will be a bit more free from meta. That's a Good Thing(tm).

13 hours ago, DreadWarlock said:

That's why you're not thinking about this right. You can run a radiation weapon, and use viral and another single element and add corrosive though spores. this corrosive bonus will proc enough and will not detract ffrom the possible procs, It will make the weapon synergize will with Condition Overload, while removing armor and increasing the damage even more. Slash procs are powerful but it is not all that exists in the game

Thank you, really. Too many people are bound and blinded in meta to even look for alternatives.

13 hours ago, Danjal777 said:

Let's get our facts straight here before you guy all have a panic attack.

DE is killing the cheese.  They have been working steadily, the game is not intended to sit in one spot and nuke the map.  Do not be so surprised by this, its not a nerf, its a balance.

...

This all being said, these changes will make her more versatile in the long run and put her back into the hands that appreciate combat and out of the hands of exploiters.

And that's why I now have finally the motivation to farm for Saryn. It looked too much like a gimmick frame to be fun, now she could realy get close to my mains (Rhino and Valkyr).

13 hours ago, DreadWarlock said:

I beg to differ, Saryn is a melee frame, her EHP makes all the sense in the world. As for Rhino, he'll still have much more EHP, you are forgetting Iron Skin exists.

We are Rhino users. We. Want. MOOOAAAARRRRR!

[Helmed]

4 minutes ago, zombiedeadhead said:

I can't believe that anyone, anywhere, thought that there was a problem with Saryn's damage, either type or amount. Or that people used Molt as some sort of decoy tank. Saryn works, all of her abilities work, and are simple to understand. And there are plenty of synergies with 'non-melee' weapons, Ignis says Hi.

So, what is the point of any of this, except to make her more cookie-cutter, even more room clearing nuke just like so may other frames? And if you don;'t think that players will quickly work out how to game the damage scaling so that they can one shot universes, then you haven't been paying attention.

I dont think you realize this but saryn was the OG nuke frame. If you want to talk about cookie cutting room clearing warframes, well, she is the cookie cutter! 

[Kalaenor]

ohh nice change

Spores infinite duration?

now that's gonna be a new build to test on. negative duration for mainly spores spam. ohh boii i cant wait to try this one

[Luraminaki]

Hi [DE] o/
I am really eager to see the incoming changes / rework for Saryn. It is looking nice so far, although, I am a bit puzzled regarding the removal of the ability to cast her Spore on her Motlt decoy.

I must admit, when I was playing Saryn, (which I did  a lot when I started playing the game because a friend offered it to me when I joined Warframe, and still do every now and then because watching Spore spreading everywhere is fairly thrilling to say the least) I wasn't aware of the synergy between her skills, and discovered how she was meant to be played watching other players and some guides later on.

Removing that ability will reduce her survivability (Then again, increasing her base armor, and infinite duration of spore may make-up for that loss. I can't really tell ATM) since players will have to look for ennemies to use Spore on, hoping they don't get killed beforehand. Being able to cast Spore on the Molt gives her the opportunity to "spread the desease" without being seen. Then again, that's probably what you are trying to avoid : Blind Killing.

As for the scalling, I hope that it works as intended, although I am a bit sceptical with the Corrosive - Toxin swap. But @(PS4)Crixus044 explains it far better than I would do (and he/she has some fairly interesting statements).

Either way, I am still eager to see these upcoming changes in action.
Cheers !

Edited May 11, 2018 by Luraminaki

[(PSN)Silenceform]

Il y a 12 heures, [DE]Danielle a dit :

Please keep in mind that everything you read in this Dev Workshop is subject to change from the posting time right up to the day/time it launches and beyond. 

 

Il y a 12 heures, [DE]Danielle a dit :

You can expect Saryn Revisted 2.0 to launch on PC in a near future update!

A bit late to the party but i guess i will just throw my feedback anyways.

 

More armor : Good. This will help her during some combat situations.

Spores : Changing spores from viral to corrosive is not a good change. Viral is better for utility in late game.

Venom Dose augment : Don't change that to corrosive. You can still use electricity, cold or fire mods to convert the type of element you perform on each attacks, it's like changing Shock trooper augment of Volt from electric to magnetic. Do it like Excalibur Chromatic blade where you can change the type of damage you are doing by changing your energy colors switching from Viral/Toxin/Corrosive/Gaz for more build diversity.

Molt : Nice to see Molt having a better survivability, the movement speed is good addition as well, nothing much to say.

Toxic Lash : Works with all weapons that's a good move from you DE, but removing the energy restore on Spores burst is bad, Saryn users will have to rely more on energy regenerations like energizing dash or energy restore consumables in long term fights.
I would ask one question to Pablo : Why removing this feature of getting energy back on spore burst while Toxic lash is active ? He answered : " Some of the people doesn't know it exist ". Here is my question from your answer : Then why people doesn't know about it ? Is it because of the requirement to meet to get your energy back feels too complicated to understand or the ability currently limited to melee weapons so people who don't wan't to get in close combat with Saryn would probably almost never use this ability  ?

Contagion cloud Augment : insert that augment into the core of Toxic Lash ability and make a new one because the augment currently doesn't do alot of damage even with the bonus on melee kill, assuming the enemies are kindly enough to come inside the clouds in the first place. Unless you play with a Nidus that uses Larva or Vauban with Vortex, this augment isn't worth using over any of the many other mods available.
Also correct me if i'm wrong but toxin damage from clouds doesn't spread the spores to other enemies if that enemy had a spore active.

*A few moments later, after a short break* Well, i got an idea for a replacement to the Contagion cloud augment : If you don't wan't the energy restore on spores burst to stay in the core ability, then why not making it as an augment ? And if 2 energy is too much, perhaps reducing it to 1 energy should be enough ?

Miasma : Switching Miasma to viral is a big mistake. In order to keep enemies under the effect of Viral procs, you will have to cast Miasma a lot, this will consume her energy pool very quickly. Double damage when spores are on targets affected by Spores is always good but the infinite duration + escalating damage/detonation from spores will do all the work if spore damage stacks high enough on the enemy, Miasma will just be casted to put viral proc on tanky enemies and hope that the target dies before it expires.
So either reduce the energy cost of Miasma to compensate for the amount of cast needed to keep Viral procs active on targets or double the duration of Miasma instead of doubling the damage on targets affected by Spores.

One more question to you DE : When you are doing these kind of changes to the warframes, are you testing these change only in solo mode or with a group of players in the same party ? How much time do you spend testing warframe changes ? Not trying to be mean or dev bashing but you need to give us more time to send feedback before you release the changes so you have more time to change abilities before patch day, or try to test the changes more intensively in your dev server and when you are satisfied with the changes then you can give us your Dev workshop and discuss about it rather than giving us your Dev workshop now and release the changes next patch coming in a near future while not being entirely sure of the changes were good enough and asking the community if they like the changes or not, take your time when you want to changes things like that, it's crucial. Otherwise you will swim again into the salt you got from the community while trying to fix things afterwards. Please don't make the same mistakes over and over again !

The new set of sounds for Saryn are welcomed.

Even if i am not playing Saryn that much, the changes you proposed for her are clearly better in terms of gameplay after i saw that pre-show before the prime time yesterday but the execution was poorly done in term of balancing the abilities.

TLDR : Some changes are good some others not so good, please don't release the changes for the next update on PC (probably coming next week) and do more testing to improve her abilities.

[JetstreamAlex]

14 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Spores changed from Viral to Corrosive damage, which repurposes it as a great tool to strip armor from enemies

This is definitely a NERF! Only good vs. Grineer...

[(PSN)xSweep66]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Hello Aidan,

I know I'm not in the context of this message, but i will give something actually informative on it. I've been playing this game a long time and I'm a very visual and mathematical guy. So far, 99.99% of my predictions based on upon workshops of what will happen, have happened exactly as I predicted. So with my history in mind, I believe my post to be of large importance to you and the DE team.

 The molt change is really nice and probably the best part about this. I love the speed buff as it makes molt's purpose actually evident as a defensive procedure. Toxic lash being a closer second in approval as having it work on more weapons than melee is nice for using her in weapon restricted missions. Miasma getting viral damage makes sense and i am for this change because the viral spread is still there, while having miasma become a supportive dps power. I love the increase in duration as it makes mobility essential to her, which is good and viral spreading would not be hard.

The problem lies with the spores acting this way. I am very happy you have removed that spore turret molt combo, as not only was that too popular, it wasn't even her best use and because it "worked ok" players were wasting her better techniques as the reliance of molt and spore was all they needed. It was a tactic that was didn't do anything really unique except save energy, that wasn't really a problem. An enemy did exactly the same job as molt. If you walk around a bit and do the same thing on enemies, grab an ignis, hit up a defense and you'll notice your tactic will work just as good, if not better.

My problem is with 2 things. Firstly, the scaling is false because while it scales infinitely, the rate will be killed off by itself. It's the cascading effect. If the spore scales, then it will either scale too slowly to matter and will not do anything substantial and die off, or too quickly and kill itself out. What i mean is that if the scaling spore damage will overpower the enemy's health, it will kill the enemy itself, spreading that to others and killing them too with even higher damage, creating cascade of kills. While this is nice in idea, it will kill out the spores and with it the scaling, because this cascading effect will keep going until there's no more enemies for it to reach, in which case, the spore dies out due to a lack of enemies at the time of spread. Then, you'll have to build back up from scratch, which will eventually take too long to do, and then saryn becomes a wash with slow scaling. At 5 minutes in, which is very low levels, the enemies were still taking a little longer than needed to die. I can only imagine a level 100 heavy in action on this tileset.

Even if you change the mechanic of enemy deaths spreading the spores, the spore will still kill itself out by over powering the enemies faster than you can spread it yourself. While star chart levels won't see the effects of this, in higher levels, this will become all too evident. The time required to get her to the levels needed will be deemed too slow. In lower levels, she'll become the super nuke because the cascade will be very very quick. This was evident in your stream, that even at solo play, which had no more than 8 enemies, the ball couldn't be kept rolling because the deaths were too fast and far in between, thus the kills were there, but the scaling was not. I think the highest you got to was 500 and it took all the enemies present to get there, then the spore killed itself off.

Plus, since it scales off of ticks and enemies hit, enemies will eventually out scale the spore, which will happen very quickly and stop saryn entirely. Her kps wouldn't even match up to endgame missions, mainly onslaught. If you reduce the scaling according to one faction, it won't stack up for the rest. If you make it too little, it won't get the job done. In missions with breaks in between, like interception or defense, she also loses her scaling every round, making it harder to maintain.

Secondly, by removing the toxin spread of spores, you have removed the saving grace of this possible change and taken away the entire purpose of using toxin with her, which is part of her theme. Now with this, what's the point of Toxin? It's nothing more than a small damage boost and a theme trick. Miasma doesn't need Toxin, spore doesn't carry it, and the sources don't do a substantial amount of it. There's really nothing in her kit that needs or benefits from toxin other than a small damage boost and neat effect to pass the time. Maybe condition overload lad, but that's it.

Toxin spreading spores was good in that it scaled off of damage done by toxin dot at the time of the spore being popped, which spread partially to other enemies. This didn't scale any more than the weapon you were using, but it was consistent, at least for those that understood it, which is not something to be ashamed of. Complex mechanics are not bad. Any mag main knows this to be true. Just needs some decent explaining.

The toxin spread means that you have 2 methods of the spores dealing their damage, which is your damage input and saryn's damage input. This means you get more dps towards your spore which is a plus to help push the scaling mechanic of the spore without it killing itself, because in lower levels, the spore's damage will be most prominent because the toxin will not be there to get, but in higher levels, the toxin damage is gonna help get your spore the kills to spread even with a spore damage less than the enemy's health, which stops it from overpowering the enemy, thus it prevents the cascading effect and prevents it from killing itself off, because the toxin itself is taking up some of the dps required to kill, so when it spreads, it won't be too strong for the enemy, and when the higher level enemy does come that starts out scaling the spore, you'll have the toxin effect in to help.

It's a win win.

Also, I'm not a fan of the venom dose getting changed to corrosive, as its buff is made useless when armor is stripped with the exception of infested, but if the teammate wanted corrosive, he would've built for corrosive, which a toxin based venom dose would help all the same, while also helping the guy using viral and the guy using toxin.

Just my critique and prediction from an old vet with a mind solely focused on warframe. Thank you very much for reading.

This is by far the best response I have seen regarding the rework. Particularly Spores. The scaling damage is cool and DE clearly intends for her to maintain or even improve her DPS potential. But removing the Toxin interaction baffles me. 

The switch from Viral to Corrosive actually really hurts Melee Saryn with Condition Overload.

Currently we can cast Toxic Lash, Spore an Enemy, strike the enemy and spread two status effects. Lets skip to the next enemy. The next enemy will have his health halved as well as a toxic effect. That's two effects for Condition Overload, as well as one of those effects halving their health. 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's roughly 500% more damage when considering Condition Overload and the Viral status effect. Not to mention you're doing that 500% more damage AND you are hitting with a Toxic Lash buffed melee. Pretty powerful and very easy to execute.

Now if we look at the potential of the rework...you'll instead find that next enemy with a Corrosive process only. Sure it might have stripped a tiny bit of armor (the value of this is debatable, the value of Viral is not), but now you're only doing 60% more damage as provided by Condition Overload, though the buff from Toxic Lash may be a tad greater, the actual damage is significantly lower.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by (PS4)xSweep66
Incorrectly phrased "rework" as "rework buff"

[KadeIion]

Il y a 14 heures, Tain_OSkoom a dit :

Not crazy about this one. Forcing yet another frame into zenurikville in order to maintain uptime on other abilities in the face of energy leech eximus units seems like a pretty miserable thing to do.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Rage

Free energy ty

Edited May 11, 2018 by --Kadelion--

[Ozamchist]

12 minutes ago, --Kadelion-- said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Rage

Free energy ty

We also have hunters adrenaline!

[KadeIion]

Il y a 15 heures, Tain_OSkoom a dit :

Not crazy about this one. Forcing yet another frame into zenurikville in order to maintain uptime on other abilities in the face of energy leech eximus units seems like a pretty miserable thing to do.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Rage

[KadeIion]

100%

[Drungly]

Can't a middle ground for casting spores be created? Hold 1 to detonate and press 1 to (re)cast spores? Based on what I've seen in the stream and from reading the changes I'm a bit worried that spreading spores is severely hindered since it depends on the position of 1 enemy. If enemies are too far apart for whatever reason I don't always have the time to make the best decision on which enemy spores should be cast on for maximum spreading. With Saryn currently I just recast on multiple enemies for maximum spread, whereas with these changes I first have to detonate and then recast which makes me lose all my active spores. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Drungly

[GTG3000]

My first reaction is : "Uh... Why?"

Although I must say, giving the one-time burst ability the non-stacking proc and giving the over time ability the stacking one is a good idea.

Not sure how I feel about having only one instance of spores, what if I need to affect two crowds of enemies?

[Reaper_Hunter]

14 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hi Tenno!

To clarify: 

does not qualify as constructive criticism and is therefore not welcome on our forums. If you read the posts of others here you will see there are many posts that provide thoughtful and insightful feedback on the proposed changes to Saryn. Most of these comments come with a mixture of positive and negative feedback, but even when feedback is only negative, it is conveyed from a place of sound reasoning. 

We do not use these forums to let people hurl context-less insults at the work of our developers, we use them to provide an outlet for players to provide meaningful feedback. If you have further questions, please review our Community Guidelines, or send someone on the Community team a message! As always, you are free to rephrase your feedback according to our guidelines, but simply saying something is "ruined" without any explanation and in a sarcastic tone is just not helpful to anyone.

Thanks!

Aiden I wasn't kidding. You, me, Some BBQ place, Anytime. I like the way you run things. 

[KaeseSchnitte]

The suggestion for Molt needs to be reworked. You start this rework under the pretext of streamlining the synergy, not removing it entirely.

Yet you removed all the synergy for Molt. Not only that, but you opened up the ability to an identity issue. Is it meant to be recast often, as Miasma and Regenerative Molt suggest, or is it meant to be cast and left alone, as the removed synergy with Spores and the survivability increase suggest.

As an avid user of Regenerative Molt, I think Molt needs to be changed to fit and fulfill the role of an ability that is meant to be quickly recasted often.

I agree that Molt should be made more durable against high-level enemies, but all in all I think the ability should be more tooled towards having more and stronger effects on cast and destruction.

As such, here are some ideas on how to achieve a more fast-paced playstyle for Molt:

• Keep the ability to cast Spores on Molt, but change its effect

For example, with the mew Spores, it seems like it will be difficult at times to retain the stacked damage. You could have the Spores on Molt retain the stacked damage, even when no enemies are around anymore, as will be the case in defense missions for one. You could use Molt and Spores to carry the stacked damage through waves.

Another idea would be to have the Spores only pop when enemies shoot Molt, adding to its distraction theme.

A different approach would be to have Spores popped by enemies restore health/energy to Molt and Saryn herself.

• Add incentive to use Miasma in combination with Molt

One idea that would certainly increase the viability of this combination, would be to to have, on top of the current synergy, Molt have its own Miasma AoE that mirrors the Miasma AoE Saryn is creating, potentially doubling the AoE of Miasma.

• Retain energy regeneration in her kit

Toxic Lash losing its ability to regenerate energy seems fine considering the ludicrous buffs you have in mind for that ability, however, with Molt getting a more spammy nature, I feel that some sort of energy regen somewhere should be retained.

 

All in all, while I welcome the buffs, at current rate, I fear that Molt and Miasma will fall by the way side, as those two abilities won't be able to compete with, or even hurt Spores and Toxic Lash. And given how over tuned those abilities seem to get, I expect Molt and Miasma to be left in their sorry state for a very long time, which I'd hate to see.

[S7nther]

ha HAAA everybody laughed when i suggested buffing her, they said "it'll become click 4 to win" "it'll be too op then"! look who's laughing now!!! my changes didn't even make her that broken as these changes make her.

[Atreides.]

I prefer Viral Spores, that's all i gotta say.

[TALISMAN_XVII]

3 minutes ago, S7nther said:

ha HAAA everybody laughed when i suggested buffing her, they said "it'll become click 4 to win" "it'll be too op then"! look who's laughing now!!! my changes didn't even make her that broken as these changes make her.

Broken like useless? Because that's what she'll be. Did you watch Prime time? the range on spores is horrific. Corrosive is no where near as effective as viral and not being able to case multiple instances of spore then having to detonate to recast isn't going to work. 

[ICA-970326-47]

45 minutes ago, --Kadelion-- said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Rage

You need a mod slot and enough hp for Rage. Considering Saryn is not a tank but a caster with overall good survivability, you need to either spam you 2 which will cost more energy and not reliable, or you will need melee weapons or any other healings......which would affect the modding potential for your entire arsenal.

Not all frames are good for use rage. Saryn with this 2 energy restore can melee through an energy reduction sortie with very few energy problems while also keep using melee channeling. But since she will be easily 3 shot by high lv enemies without careful movements or use her 2, rage is really inappropriate on her.

[VisionAndVoice]

Not sold on Swapping Viral and Corrosive for her. For one, it actually gives her less of an utility.

And for two, you are making abilities available to us too armour-centric. Half the options we have in the game right now revolve around stripping enemy armour and only around that, doing nothing when falling out of this, admittedly currently very wide, niche. But when you are going to implement Damage 3.0 and maybe hopefully make armour scaling make more sence, this will all fumble like a lopsided card house.

And lastly, there are frames who are in better need of fixing than Saryn. Get to them first.

[CaptainJLP]

As long as you keep my condition overload melee saryn alone, I'm fine, the miasma and spore damage type switch around, might be scary though and the new spores might  make me go to viral and heat instead of corrosive and heat on my silva and aegis prime.

I have no care in the world for macro, Spore + Zenistar / Gas Cloud on Molt Hydron Setups, unfortunately there are people that like these setups, but as of right now, they are just for getting focus or getting a mission done etc. But to be honest, The game isn't about sitting on Hydron kill stealing off of everyone, I'm guessing this change will come to equinox soon as well, with maim.

Spore changes look scary, well the mention of them not spreading seems a little bit frightening. Molt changes, I 100% agree on, everything about those changes to molt are great, though is the speed boost effected by strength and duration and if so what is the speed boost percent or flat increase (we have yet to see a flat increase) , Saryn Prime only has a walk speed of 1 and her normal counterpart is 0.95.

 

Also just for a quick notice I am currently watching Prime Time to see stats and that, so don't blame me if I have not much info on the abilities

 

Okay abilities look fine and nothing much has changed as far as I can see, though any information on molts speed boost increase, there was nothing in prime time that explained the speed boost increase in detail. It would be cool if it added temporary bullet jump speed though to get her out of those situations. The armor increase = Nothing much, I use quick thinking and hunter adrenaline with 850 energy and maxed vazarin with regen molt, so its just a nice quality of life in my opinion.

Edited May 11, 2018 by CaptainJLP