Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[Darkuhn]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb [DE]Danielle:

Toxic Lash 

You’ve told us that having Toxic Lash limited to Melee was too restrictive and was simply not compatible with a broader variety of playstyles. So we’re sharing its Toxin with the lot of your Arsenal! Toxic Lash’s Toxin damage buff in Saryn’s revisit is now granted to ANY weapon in your Loadout (Primary, Secondary, and Melee). In maintaining its roots, the damage buff on Melee weapons is doubled. 

Is the damage reduction while blocking still there? If so, why don't change it to an always active damage reduction with a cap of 45% while wielding Primary and Secondary Weapons an a cap of 90% while wielding Melee Weapons?

[Qamelion]

They dont know how to fix Wukong, so they revisited Saryn.

[IfritKajiTora]

I don't like the changes of Saryn, while she is my second favourite Warframe.
1.SPORES: OverPowered itself, boosting damage automatically by just casting it and spreading.

2.MOLT: Just for dodge, no more boosting spore damage.

3.TOXIC LASH: Just for adding more damage to weapons, no more boosting spores.

4.MIASMA: Viral is fine (you can say that it's doubling the damage to health), But now Toxin or Viral doesn't boost the damage which was cool.

So it's just like Saryn need to cast Spores, hit once and Spores will spread to enemies boosting them self. Saryn now can sit and wait for spores to build thedamage.

CHANGES IT SHOULD GET:
1.SPORES: are too overpowered on itself. 50% corrosive status on 100% power strength, any enemy can get 3 spores so 50% corrosive status per second isinsane. It should be changed to 25-30%. And not boost damage itself. Spores can be buffed by adding Gas and Toxin damage as it was before (but with reduced %. My Ogris deals around 15k gas damage so adding it to spores not to mention AoE hitting even 8 targets by one shot would be insanely OverPowered) I think that infinitely boosting spores will be OverPowered too it need damage limit. 5K damage per spore on 100% power strength. At damage limit changing the ICON to flashy toxical effect with your energy color choice on Saryn (just like NIDUS have), making it a signal that you can make full potential damage by casting Miasma if you applied Toxin and Gas to spores. This is the most important ability in Saryn KIT at the moment and get's really powerful with overextended builds going to 37.6 meters range spread. This should be changed to 25meters range not affected by power range, making overextended builds not mandatory. 

2.MOLT: Deals Gas damage and 100% status on explosion, this damage apply to spores. Explosion range affected by range mods.

3.TOXIC LASH: Deals toxin damage and 100% status, this add to spores damage.

4.MIASMA: it should be boosted by all toxin damage type (Toxin, Gas, Viral, Corrosive). Casting spores add Corrosive, Using Molt add Gas, Using Toxic Lash addtoxins. So you need to use all her abilities to make full potential MIASMA DAMAGE. Probably it should detonate all spores with burst damage.

Why make range in spores not changeable by mods? Already Miasma and Molt will benefit from range mods to quickly spread gas in large area and Miasma will be able to damage a lot of enemies. Spores with 25 meters range spread is enough to be able to spread them in large area, not blindly shot one target and making them spread to all enemies even behind the walls. Overextended is bringing too much benefits (spores,molt,miasma), now it will not be needed, 145% range should be enough for Molt and Miasma, while overextended is a nice option for Miasma and Molt range.

TL:DR: Saryn still should spread GAS and TOXIN damage with spores, so 2 and 3 should be more usable, because they help boosting spore damage, you need to build up that damage to make it final NUKE with Miasma, not just cast spores, wait and sit for them to build damage by them self.

SARYN - The master of toxins.

Edited May 11, 2018 by IfritKajiTora

[CuteFoxyFox]

Okay this is cool, I really like it!

But my only question is: Why Saryn?

I mean there are some frames that would need some rework more than Saryn since she is on a not so bad spot.

Do not take me wrong, I like the changes buuuuut try to change stuff that need some speedy changes. 

In my opinion this revist you did now should have been for Vauban or Titania but I will gladly play new Saryn since i really like her so

 

Thanks DE :P

[IfritKajiTora]

2 minutes ago, CuteFoxyFox said:

In my opinion this revist you did now should have been for Vauban or Titania but I will gladly play new Saryn since i really like her so

Vauban is OK, Titania need some work but the most useless and boring Warframes are: WUKONG & NEZHA.

[Synpai]

The only concern I have is Molt.

It still feels a little weird to me since it doesn't force aggression, have you thought about allowing it to act as a shield during the "absorb damage" phase before turning into a decoy?

[Chroia]

2 hours ago, Thep10xer said:

The spore popping second cast is to make sure you cant spam it on molt.

This is both not the reason, and not needed.

16 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

The first step was removing the synergy to cast Spores on Molt. 

In other words, you couldn't cast Spores on Molt even once, let alone twice.

---

2 hours ago, Thep10xer said:

The augment change relates to the damage type change... Why would corrosive spores give allies viral damage?

Eh, that's a reasonable argument.
I still don't like the change for the reason I gave, but I'll accept it.

[Teoarrk]

As someone that used to only play Saryn, I'm very glad to see these changes. I felt like she was left behind and her current iteration is lackluster compared to her initial run. Good stuff, can't wait to play it.

[DeathGold]

17 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

PS. We're still looking at the rest of your Arsenal! 

a hint for melee rework soon ?? any way i'm happy saryn is maybe becoming worth using 😄 thx DE 

[Ozamchist]

6 minutes ago, DeathGold said:

a hint for melee rework soon ?? any way i'm happy saryn is maybe becoming worth using 😄 thx DE 

She was always worth using she's just even better now. Don't get your hopes up if you didn't like her before you probably won't like her upgrade.

[Keltik0ne]

Odd changes, spores is a straight up nerf given that viral works on every enemy type, corrosive is only really useful on armoured.

Gonna need a lot of testing, but looks like the rework is only there to nerf onslaught runners.

[GA-Bulletproof]

Because i haven't played her yet in this form i only have concerns with what i have read:

Spore:

The way it is intended now is to be cast on one enemy and on recast it will "explode". This will be very limited in fast pace levels where the next batch of enemies maybe further ahead then the Spores reach. i would like to see the "explode" option to be an alternative you can trigger by holding your 1 but let Saryn be able to recast the 1 if necessary.

Molt:

I seen the stream and i get why the Molt was changed but with Spores no longer spreading the toxin damage done to spores i don't see why Molt can't remain it's HIVE like nature. That's what it was good for in the first place --> have enemies infect themselves by making them pop the spores.

Toxic Lash:

Awesome all the way. I see no problem.

Miasma:

This would actually be pretty awesome if the Viral on enemies was persistent. Because the way it was before the corrosive halfed the enemies armor and it STAYED that way. If it is possible for Saryn to maintain the Viral on the enemies that are in the AoE of Miasma that would be real benefit to using it more frequently.

 

Other then that i am looking forward to her. Next up *cough* Khora *cough* @[DE]Pablo

[Ozamchist]

1 minute ago, Keltik0ne said:

Odd changes, spores is a straight up nerf given that viral works on every enemy type, corrosive is only really useful on armoured.

Gonna need a lot of testing, but looks like the rework is only there to nerf onslaught runners.

She still has viral in her kit, if you actually had a deeper understanding of her kit you would know that she's going to be just as effective onslaught if not more so (and we'll pretend this wasn't in the works since February 16th) viral is still in her kit and attached to burst damage where viral actually shines, while a new corrosive proc is attached to a multi tick infinite ticking dot which is where corrosive shines. This is a buff. You can pretend otherwise like the people with the last rework did, but it's a buff.

[Irisena]

So, here's my opinion about the upcoming changes:
- I honestly love the idea. If all of these is implemented in the game as-is, i'm sure saryn will sit comfortably at rank A meta frame.
- Be careful of what you release and announce, because player's expectation could be a very dangerous game to play. I believe that some alteration will be needed to this list of tweak and changes, because if you implement it as-is, it would be borderline OP. You will see Saryn mowing every enemies before her team could see anything, or will break any difficulties and challenges whatsoever because armor will become irrelevant. This is the same reason you guys nerfed ember for, because she nukes low-level mission effortlessly, killing anyone before her team could spot any enemy. But at the same time, if you decided to tone down the changes on this list, player outrage will happen. You can bet many threads will be made screaming "DE nerfed saryn to the ground".

[S7nther]

1 hour ago, TALISMAN_XVII said:

Broken like useless? Because that's what she'll be. Did you watch Prime time? the range on spores is horrific. Corrosive is no where near as effective as viral and not being able to case multiple instances of spore then having to detonate to recast isn't going to work. 

broken as in OP. yes, i watched it, it #*!%ing shredded them. you dont need to recast if their damage doubles with each tick.

[CaptainJLP]

36 minutes ago, Darkuhn said:

Is the damage reduction while blocking still there? If so, why don't change it to an always active damage reduction with a cap of 45% while wielding Primary and Secondary Weapons an a cap of 90% while wielding Melee Weapons?

The damage blocking is only for melee blocking and is additive up to a maximum of 90% damage resistance from blocked damaged. I.e with Ack & Brunt it is capped out without any strength mods what so ever since 85% + 40% - 35% (Cap) =  90%, The idea of just having a damage resistance without blocking is kind of well, if you've seen what she is capable of doing its kind of good without damage reduction, always she will be a little bit too strong and well the damage reduction with primaries does make sense since you cannot block with them, but it isn't needed. But your entitled to your own opinion on what you want changed. So if you think its a good idea go right ahead.

[Darkuhn]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb CaptainJLP:

The damage blocking is only for melee blocking and is additive up to a maximum of 90% damage resistance from blocked damaged. I.e with Ack & Brunt it is capped out without any strength mods what so ever since 85% + 40% - 35% (Cap) =  90%, The idea of just having a damage resistance without blocking is kind of well, if you've seen what she is capable of doing its kind of good without damage reduction, always she will be a little bit too strong and well the damage reduction with primaries does make sense since you cannot block with them, but it isn't needed. But your entitled to your own opinion on what you want changed. So if you think its a good idea go right ahead.

I know how the blocking DR works, but it would be nice to have a general DR so every part of the Ability is useful at all times. As you say it isn't really needed as she isn't that squishy but it would help her none the less. Even if the Hard cap would be at 50% it would still be far better than Blocking DR 😉

[Naneel]

This rework sounds great. Having Corrosive procs on the spores is great, because I don't need to take corrosive projection to play endgame. And with the scaling damage she should be really good againt bosses. 

Higher Armor is always good, and since I am already using Rage, I don't have Energy Problems. Now with more Armor it will be even more effective.

 I am really happy with this rework and I am looking forward to the sound changes.

[Umiock]

Could you.not change the viral and corrosive of her 1 and 4 

That would be greatly appreciated

Cause while 90% of ppl in the game think corrosive is king

None of them go past an hour in survival or 20 waves in defence

Ik you as a company don't really pay attention to those of us who like long runs but we still play the game as well

And the 15 armour jim the lvl 100 heavy gunner really ain't that hard to.kill that we need corrosive on it

[BrazilianJoe]

Toxic Lash: make it recastable to refresh duration. 

[Darkuhn]

Gerade eben schrieb BrazilianJoe:

Toxic Lash: make it recastable to refresh duration. 

Yes please!

[shadow0727]

i was looking over all of the skills once again after the pre show last night, and the one major concern i have is regarding the way spores works now. Hear me out

In its current suggested iteration, spores has to be on an enemy for the damage to continue to scale up. Makes sense, however what about missions like defence or interception where there is an extended period of time, by design, where there are no enemies? This means that after each wave of defence, your spores damage completely resets and with interception, the start of each wave has a noticeable period before enemies spawn.

Also, we cant cast spores on Molt anymore. I agree with changing it based solely on the basis that players would stand there and cast/pop/repeat. Being as spores is no longer able to be cast more than once, what about if you could cast spores on molt, or at the very least if spores could spread to molt (from what i could see, that wasnt possible in the preview) so we are able to maintain the damage we have already stacked between waves. A way of eliminating the playstyle of only popping spores on molt, you could make it so molt (and everything attached to it) is only able to be damaged by enemy fire, basically making it 100% friendly

[Mahmoud]

18 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

• Miasma has a 100% guaranteed Viral Status Effect on damage tick. 

Which is applied first, the damage or the Viral PROC?

[ChaosWraithe]

Goodbye to one of my favourite frames... No more Viral and Toxin spread on spores is just painful.

[Hixlysss]

Okay, from what I saw in the video I have some feedback. 

The damage stacking, how it just "Poofs" going away completely once all enemies affected by spore are gone. This...really badly hurts her for longer plays like in Defense missions, or as Pablo pointed out if there is an enemy way back five rooms and in order to recast of you have to...well, you recast and it pops the spores and you lose all the damage you built up.

It should work like a melee counter, where the counter stays for X amount of time or it should tick down until you cast it on new enemies. In Onslaught could have her lose like 1k damage each time she goes through, similar to Nidus losing 4 stacks when he goes through. That's the only actual problem I foresee with this change in power, as the whole "Oh I accidentally pressed 1 and made the spores popped and lost all that damage." will be a problem.

Now on to the counter itself...I donno how I feel about it being an actual number that counts up, to 100k if I remember correctly, I was thinking as an alternative it would work more like a melee counter, where instead of a flat number that increases it would be a multiplier, and as the multiplier increases it increases...well, the damage, amount of ticks a second, ect. I mostly like this change as having some big number is neat and all, but it can be an eyesore honestly, and the multiplier gives it more features such as more ticks, status chance, ect, allowing the base stats of it to be lowered and having strength increase the bonus from the multiplier.