Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[(PSN)RazorTheIceMan]

On May 20, 2018 at 11:19 PM, NezuHimeSama said:

Then you just recast molt for stealth Saryn.

Having it reduce hate as well as the speed buff(which should also apply to parkour) would be nice though.

 

[NezuHimeSama]

10 hours ago, Cibyllae said:

What do you mean? What changed about their propagation?

It's just bugged. Sometimes enemies will refuse spores, spores will refuse to propagate at all, the propagation will be delayed(even for several seconds), ect.

Currently, spore is just super bugged and needs some fixin' time.

[Crimson_Ruby_313]

On 2018-05-21 at 12:51 AM, Evhel.nVbs said:

Well, EOS is the exeption, as there are infinite enemies that spawn endlessly. She is super in that particular map. But that's the problem: she is super in that particular map.  As for the rest of the game, she is, in my opinion again, not so good. And a rework that pushes a frame to a single and unique game mode is not a good one, imho.

true totally agree with you. 

[Crimson_Ruby_313]

12 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

It's just bugged. Sometimes enemies will refuse spores, spores will refuse to propagate at all, the propagation will be delayed(even for several seconds), ect.

Currently, spore is just super bugged and needs some fixin' time.

yeah sometimes 1 doesn't work at all. annoying bug...

[low1991]

Hmm, make spore give lower counter by 3x? while buffing the burst damage, encouraging interaction between spore n players.

[Purity]

On 2018-05-21 at 7:28 PM, DreadWarlock said:

I Just had a decent Idea on some changes that can be done to her spore spreading to encourage people to not stack range and focus on Strength and other abilities instead. I'll try posting these Ideas in a relevant topic(not an actual rework just some changes to this current version). Hopefully this will make her current self feel even more interactive while keeping most things as they are right now, while also reducing the importance of range which is what has been breaking her kit this entire time.

I mean personally I pretty much dropped the game now. But of other saryn mains, it'll definitely be a step in the right direction

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

On 2018-05-21 at 11:48 PM, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

 

ty for noticing this. i hope than if enough player make good explained complain and in enough numbers DE would just have to change this. we just need some tune up for spores, spread is lot batter b4 than it is now. ability still know to bugg up, freeze duo delay on cast spore and start tick for dmg stack. so if it die by other players spore know to bug results in frozen ability. so new game play with broken ability which was intended this way is so bad. give few days run trough star chart and you will see how worse she is for other type of missions than b4. she is limited now, so spores are nerfed but also given carrot dmg of end game or what ever for donkeys to chase.

So I have played around a little more with a Saryn and something is REALLY wrong! I was playing a mission and was paying close attention to my spores. They were refusing to spread, and just died off. Regardless of enemies near by they wouldn't infect any other enemies. I made sure to try this with higher level mods because that usually how I can build a really nice spreading set of spores, but it was failing me.

I will take back the old Saryn any day right now because an increase of armor isn't needed, and while the Toxic Lash would suck to lose the primary advantage, and the molt would lose its speed bonus, I would deal with it, just be able to have Spores work like they used to ... and that is work well!

For the record this is how my Saryn is setup

[Crystal_Mendrilia]

I just got Sayrn for the first time today. I cannot cast the spores on my cast off skin like I've seen many do before, which I assumed was part of the update. 😜   BUT I ran into a problem that's kind of a big one I think. 

So I was casting my spores in a defense mission. Built it up to 13 active spores apparently from the bottom right number. (At the time I didn't know what that mean) only... those active spores were lasting for 7 waves on Defense and I could not blow them up or cast them on anything... again for 7 waves. 

I haven't seen anything on the Dev's post early on regarding this issue or what might have caused this so..... I'm mentioning it here in hopes this is helpful. ^_^  I couldn't recast it to blow them, I couldn't cast more on enemies. It was just a useless skill for half the round... unless you like to hear the buzz saying you cannot cast it. ^_~

Happy Hunting!

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

I'm sorry...but why go this far with the rework? Why over-complicate it? The only problem the community had with Saryn was that her spore spread, and the damage carried with it was very unpredictable. And the only problem the Devs had with her was the spore tower. So why all these changes? Just remove the spore tower ability and fix spore status spread to be more consistent, something like each spore can carry only spread/proc one status per sec. and it's applied regardless of what the enemy armor situation is. 

Done! No fuss, no drama and no over-complications = Saryn is still badass. You don't have to completely destroy her kit in order to be a good rework. 

[vankeios]

This is my two cents.

Spore: Should be a toggle like Equinox 3 - 4.
Saryn is the center of an AoE. Everything in the area gets a SPORE.

Since the augment is useless now, the new Spore Augment should make ANY Spored affected enemy a Contagion Center just like if IT where Saryn.

Damage,ranges,etc should be considered. 

I think this is the best way to understand Spores Spread and make less annoying to pick a "TARGET".

 

Thanks for reading.

[-Trixxy]

Spores: Continued

So..   I went into Onslaught today and did this.

You'll see footage of this description all over youtubes at reliable warframe youtubers.

Anyway, I grabbed a half baked ranged build with no added power strength, jumped into the map solo, made a conga line of baddies and cast x1 spore on a meep. Then I hid behind a box and let this single cast of spores clear the entire level. Repeated this all the way up to floor 14 where you start getting pushed out by the stimulation decay anyway. Maybe I just had to cast molt and sidestep if I was taking too many direct attacks, maybe every now and then I had to run out and stab a nulifier or cause a radiation proc when an ancient healer was present, maybe I had to recast x1 spore if the conga line died completely without anything else in range. My current APM with Saryn is SIGNIFICANTLY (top understatements of 2018) lower with this current iteration of Saryn then it's been with previous two. Before I was non stop spreading spores  while cutting a toxic path through my enemies, now I cast spores x1 and move maybe once every 15 seconds just to deal with anything that may disrupt it. This is seriously more cheesy then the old molt+spores, this is worse then the spin-to-win-primed-reach-atterax-maiming-strike-spin-in-the-corner cheese that you guys are reworking the whole melee system to fix. It's also hella boring. And I don't ever need to touch the new detonate feature.

Not to mention that outside of the previously described cheese, the current Spores is, if anything, not effective at all.

I once again bring up my three point plan for fixing spores:

• Let us multi-seed Spores again.
• Less Intrusive Detonate Feature.
• Reduce base damage to accommodate for Multi-seeding.

Oh yeah, and Contagion Cloud gas cloud colors to match warframe energy color please.



...Meanwhile, Khora is nice...

Edited May 24, 2018 by -Trixxy
Edit: I went over to youtubes and found a new AGGP vid where he speaks about the upcomming changes to Spores in the thread over here -> https://forums.warframe.com/topic/959752-dev-workshop-spores-revisited-saryn/ ... YAY!!!!

[-HoB-AngelofRevenge]

On 2018-05-22 at 10:24 AM, Ikusias said:

After trying Saryn for a while in normal maps, i can say that altough the stated intetion of the rework was to make her easier to use, the actual result was to nerf her.

- spores don't propagate correctly anymore and are less effective on anything that isn't heavily armored i.e. half of the factions in game, in particular was lost a lot of DPS against corpus were the toxic tics bypassed shields nicely; the change from viral to corrosive damage doesn't fit with her theme and we have other ways to strip armor. (just rework armor scaling once and for all instead of plastering further band aids on it damnit!)

- molt still doesn't draw aggro away from Saryn herself and lasts just a bit more than before;

- toxic lash, while i welcome the extension of its effect to all weapons I decry the loss of energy recovery, as Saryn is as energy hungry as ever;

- miasma, nice we lost most of its CC aspect and its range is still meh: turning it in a persistent venom cloud with innate staggering effect on all the enemies inside would have killed anyone DE?

Stat changes: the extra armor is a pittance and is inappropriate on a caster frame, she should have gotten better survivability from an effective rework of her molt, also why the Heck isn't the augment folded into it already?!

@Pablo, while Saryn wasn't perfect after your first rework as her power interaction hadn't been documented officially anywere and her miasma had a fairly forced sinergy with her spores and statuses inflicted to prevent further press #4 to win, she worked.

Her current interaction, considering the good work done on Nidus (except the nerf to his passive!) and Harrow, is not up to your standard, in particular considering that this "revision" removed options from her kit.

I'm sorry to say that is apparent that the main intent was to nerf her in Elite Sanctuary Onslaught, objective failed there due to enemy density helping her mantaining DPS, while her spores have become unwieldy in the rest of the starmap without recast possibility.

And from the comments before mine, it seems she's being pigeonholed again into melee or in using her toxic lash to have a chance to pop the damn spores, no thank you

well done on notice sarun issues after rework, your post backup mine comments. I think that DE SHOULD CREATE vote system after rework for palyers to vote on like or not (change it again if needed). We see many complain about spores after this change. whole point is that DE actualy ask us should it keep some part of rework if we post enough about specific issue and wish for old mechanic get back. in simple terms, lets us vote to bring back some part of rework if new is bad (just suggestion). in this case her gameplay is broken and spores as well, if we think they should bring back old spores they should do it. this way they dont really notice any of our complains about something bad and broke. 3 hot fixes so far and none to adress its spread, sure some ppl keep say spread is fine guess they consider that if not spread at all than is broken. 

[(XBOX)FireBirdReaper]

when does the new update come to console? 

[(XBOX)Lycentia]

I don't get it. The whole problem was people standing around, casting Spores on their Molt then hitting it to spread them, right?

So just remove the ability to cast on the Molt. Boom. Problem solved.

DE, you really need to stop amputating the whole finger just to remove a sliver.

8 hours ago, (XB1)FireBirdReaper said:

when does the new update come to console? 

When they're done screwing around with it, I would think. Which it doesn't look like they're done doing.

Edited May 25, 2018 by (XB1)Lycentia

[Sergster]

I've discovered an interesting issue with spores currently: When all spores are detonated on their own, as in the enemies die either to them or something else, the stacked damage instead of decaying like it should, simply vanishes all at once. My suggestion, on spores, is to allow spread through enemies dying to them but at half the range, since currently it really feels like old saryn, keep spamming 1 to keep those spores on enemies, the old rework albeit a LITTLE crazy, was far better.

[andymous87]

As someone that's been a Saryn main since long before she got the hotfix that got her molt to strip procs, I got some ideas for some changes for saryn in her current form:

1) Spores - enable her spores to be transmitted thru allied targets via casting on them or allied targets being within the spread range (obviously, only if allies are not damaged by them and this would also include her molt and not when she's rad proc'd).  this could perhaps be enabled thru a change to her venom dose augment, I think.  Could also bring back the spread potential with AOE weapons popping the spores, because its kind of feeling like how venom use to be.  A lot of the changes I am liking some of its changes like the infinite duration and damage scaling (should it keep an infected enemy that is).  Also, would it be too hard to have the spores spread on select types of death (like explosive ones from the exploding runner and nox for example)

2) Molt - if molt could absorb damage from allied tenno and saryn herself and possibly grant toxic damage or some other buff to allies who fire into it or contribute to it's durability, its disability to be a spore kiosk would be totally forgiven (not saying that the speed boost isn't welcomed, because I like it a lot, I can make my girl run faster than she ever had without packing on sprint speed

3) Toxic Lash - before her changes I was going to suggest that select primaries and secondaries be affected by her 3, but I'm perfectly fine with this change, so nothing more, that I can think of, is needed here, unless the contagion cloud or shooting allied targets with weapons affected with toxic lash gives toxic damage to her allies, but it's fine hot it is

4) Miasma - I don't have much for this accept maybe an augment that has her miasmic gas lingers behind her after initial cast, leaving a trail for a while that has the effects of the initial cast of miasma to any enemy that walks into it (stun, DOT), allowing her to give a customized area denial like nezha's fire walker does, only instead of stun/fire damage it's stun/viral damage or whatever damage type you decide to switch it to.

 

so there it is, I hope it's not too late for this or for this to not fall on deaf ears (or blind/illiterate eyes in this case)

[Ange1ofD4rkness]

On 2018-05-24 at 9:10 AM, -Trixxy said:

Spores: Continued

So..   I went into Onslaught today and did this.

You'll see footage of this description all over youtubes at reliable warframe youtubers.

Anyway, I grabbed a half baked ranged build with no added power strength, jumped into the map solo, made a conga line of baddies and cast x1 spore on a meep. Then I hid behind a box and let this single cast of spores clear the entire level. Repeated this all the way up to floor 14 where you start getting pushed out by the stimulation decay anyway. Maybe I just had to cast molt and sidestep if I was taking too many direct attacks, maybe every now and then I had to run out and stab a nulifier or cause a radiation proc when an ancient healer was present, maybe I had to recast x1 spore if the conga line died completely without anything else in range. My current APM with Saryn is SIGNIFICANTLY (top understatements of 2018) lower with this current iteration of Saryn then it's been with previous two. Before I was non stop spreading spores  while cutting a toxic path through my enemies, now I cast spores x1 and move maybe once every 15 seconds just to deal with anything that may disrupt it. This is seriously more cheesy then the old molt+spores, this is worse then the spin-to-win-primed-reach-atterax-maiming-strike-spin-in-the-corner cheese that you guys are reworking the whole melee system to fix. It's also hella boring. And I don't ever need to touch the new detonate feature.

Not to mention that outside of the previously described cheese, the current Spores is, if anything, not effective at all.

I once again bring up my three point plan for fixing spores:

• Let us multi-seed Spores again.
• Less Intrusive Detonate Feature.
• Reduce base damage to accommodate for Multi-seeding.

Oh yeah, and Contagion Cloud gas cloud colors to match warframe energy color please.



...Meanwhile, Khora is nice...

I like this because pretty much ... I miss multi-spores. I used to strategically plant them in clusters to let them spread. While today i did get ONE nice group that nailed 12 enemies, it quickly died off, and that was that.

(Not to mention the spores are harder for me to see now).

I'm still playing her because she's my main frame, from the sec I built her (a mad scramble cause I knew she was being vaulted, didn't know what she was, but knew I should ... best move ever).

EDIT: then I just came back ... and had luck with massive spreading then not ... to inconsistent

Edited May 29, 2018 by Ange1ofD4rkness

[Purity]

On 2018-05-24 at 8:55 AM, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

I'm sorry...but why go this far with the rework? Why over-complicate it? The only problem the community had with Saryn was that her spore spread, and the damage carried with it was very unpredictable. And the only problem the Devs had with her was the spore tower. So why all these changes? Just remove the spore tower ability and fix spore status spread to be more consistent, something like each spore can carry only spread/proc one status per sec. and it's applied regardless of what the enemy armor situation is. 

Done! No fuss, no drama and no over-complications = Saryn is still badass. You don't have to completely destroy her kit in order to be a good rework. 

Facts. Like from what I've heard it was a nerf for eso elite. They failed in that sense and indeed made her (talking about spores since thats her main ability) a hassle to babysit everywhere else. I mean I appreciate the effort but we didn't awk for this overcomplication (especially saryn mains)..

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

11 hours ago, Heatie said:

Facts. Like from what I've heard it was a nerf for eso elite. They failed in that sense and indeed made her (talking about spores since thats her main ability) a hassle to babysit everywhere else. I mean I appreciate the effort but we didn't awk for this overcomplication (especially saryn mains)..

Yea, she definitely feels way over-complex just by watching Brozime. My final judgement is going to wait until I'll get to use her, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing. 

[Shidonia]

Multiple reasons from different perspectives for this nerf to Saryn.

What DE said;

"Saryn needs a rework she was always in need of one and spores weren't exactly working like what we wanted them to work in the first place and synergies she had were really complex for new players... We don't like molt turret so we remove that, Saryn was too melee centric we are adding that buff to toxic lash and last one we change the damage type so you can't actually kill with your first ability but spend more energy to kill with your 4th.

What DE actually wanted to say but couldn't because, well they were afraid of the backlash;

"This rework is happening but not because she needs simplified mechanics for new players. It's because we never liked the fact that you were using molt and spores together but now you found a meta for saryn in game on the new game mode ESO and we need to get rid of that. But if we are putting this after all of this time we have to put it in the best way right? So we give you infinite duration and strength on spores because we basically know that we will take that duration away and alter the strength scaling on spores. And since this is our game we know how enemy spawn system works and the range between them and everything so you won't be able to spread forever! hehe"

***players realize the spread issues between the spores and find it inconsistent***

***DE pretends as if they just realized the influence Saryn had on ESO and comes up with the real plan A from the very start of the plan, NERF***

The situation however is really different on players' behalf;

We can basically play however we want, never shame another player just because they used molt on their spores, some people used molt on their spores but they needed to fleet from the fire and had regenerative molt and wanted to heal themselves as they damage the enemy. People who sit in the background and say I tried Saryn on ESO she was boring, don't say that, maybe you haven't realized but we have many enemy units that can knockdown deal high amounts of damage or one shot us, in this game enemies are getting the buffs that we need to receive to our warframes. Since the new focus rework, don't you find it funny that 16 year old boy is stronger than a half biological/metallic ninja which wields strongest weapons. We don't deserve nerfs and stuff. Like I said on my previous posts, this "stack" based game play is basically pushing us to build stacks and this is not a good gameplay, people who play with Nidus always complain about one thing, building up stacks is really boring, you can't focus on aiming you can't kill your guns, you need to let your wf kill so that it can earn stacks. Revert the Saryn back to her old self.

 

IF you are not going to revert it back to her old self and keep this stack thing for her then here is how you can actually fix her;

• Decay is too fast rather than making it a percentage based make it a set number per second or basically don't let it decay just put a duration and let it stay there till we recast it much like combo counter. This will really lower the stress from the player and focus much more onto what's important, to the game.
• Keep the 30% decay rate for nullifiers, nullifier bubbles are a no no noone should get in them and get out of it safe. Right DE :pp

Bring the Death Spread back, we literally need the death spread back, this is really making Saryn a more melee-centric warframe than she was before to spread the spores. If you are not planning on bringing it back here are some ideas on how to deal with it.

1. Make the last spore never ever die, it should basically highlight the last enemy with spores on him until we spread it by popping up the spores or recasting Of course last  spore won't deal damage till you spread or recast it. Cuz I can't babysit around to spores and recast them every day and nite this makes me feel like im a desperate housewife rather than a ninja

2. OR Add a play and a pause button to our spore ticker. We are already used to detonation mechanic of spores. Personally I really liked the detonation mechanic of old spores, spread some and then pop em up and cast miasma to kill ones around you, it was really helping a lot to cause some spikes on the efficiency counter of the sanctuary. I think noone would mind giving themselves some time to spread their spores even more before actually letting them deal damage. Basically the spore ticker won't deal damage when it's paused but player will still be able to spread it as much as they want and then they can press play and the show may go on or it may end for enemies ;)

 

All in all, Saryn is still bad in other missions because of inconsistent spread and fast decay on spores. It is too stressful and distracting to play with her. She is much more energy hungry than before that's why she needs toxic lash + spores synergy back for fast energy gains. Molt is still weak and doesn't fully distract the enemy. Enemies are still running after me. Bring back molt + miasma synergy back. Miasma needs more damage from spores and molt to kill on high levels. And bring back molt and spores don't punish the players. Bring all the old synergies and mix them with the new ones. Saryn is an organic one, you don't basically need to know how does her abilities work in tandem, you just happen to learn. I didn't learn the molt spores synergy on the wiki or from someone else. I cast spores on enemy and one of my spores just jumped on my molt and I slowly learned about each, plus you can always make a warframe profile video for new players to understand. Make one warframe stay as the way it is DE you won't regret it.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Shidonia

[(PSN)TurrentK3]

As someone who considers Saryn my go-to frame, I do like most of what this has to offer. I unfortunately see 2 glaring problems. 

1. The viral and corrosive swap on spores and miasma respectively, I feel the game has numerous ways to deal with armor thus far,and I worry that the swap would ruin the original identity of the frame.
2. The removing spore casting on molt, I do understand the concern with the "set it and forget it" mentality, however I feel that removing this feature would damage the versatility, and by extension, the usefulness of molt as a skill. The idea that molt could be used with both defense and attack in mind was the sole reason I even picked  Saryn up, it is a very appealing concept that way.

[(PSN)RazorTheIceMan]

Leaving it only if. It does what an how it supposed to functions,That is i think that players think its only for crowd control now. 

Show them its not.On ps4 there is nothing to show the damage being done as their is on pc.Why? 

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RazorTheIceMan said:

Leaving it only if. It does what an how it supposed to functions,That is i think that players think its only for crowd control now. 

Show them its not.On ps4 there is nothing to show the damage being done as their is on pc.Why? 

Because we still don't have it the re-work? 

[(PSN)Riven_Lupus]

@[DE]Pablo

Alright, I have had the opportunity to try out this reworked rework now that it's on PS4.

The Good:

Better armor, better survivability. Always welcome.

Toxic Lash's appliance to all my equipped weapons is fantastic. The overall buff lets me build without needing to include Toxic mods, as I can just apply it as needed with a fairly long lasting ability. Doubling on melee is excellent.

Miasma's functional stunning over a large area is sublime. Going high duration makes it even better.

The Bad:

Molt is still entirely useless to me. It's aggro-pull on enemies is weaker than an unseen chihuahua going ballistic and making everyone jump. It's absolutely pitiful base health makes it's new bullet absorb mechanic make it last...exactly as long as enemies actually bothered to shoot it while it was building health, IF they even bother instead of riddling me into swiss cheese. The speed boost is a really bad gimmick, easily replicated with the pre-rework pair of bullet jumps. Spore turreting is obviously dead, which is the only intelligent thing done here.

 SPORES

I. Hate. Everything. Using the high range that is requisite to get the most out of Spores, I've attempted to use a + strength/+ duration build/- efficiency build, and it just eats up the initial starting target like candy. And then the enemies in that first victim's spread range. And then promptly dies out. I can TRY to use Toxic Lash to tag the secondary victims with a single bullet before they die, but then ensues a mad scramble that's more fruitless than not to try and continue to shoot spored targets faster than the spores kill them. Or attempt to spam Miasma, in which case now I would HAVE to only run with an Energizing Dash Zenurik focus and Energy Siphon to TRY and maintain my energy to continue using her abilities.

I've ALSO tried a - strength/+ duration/+efficiency build, figuring that if the spores build slower, I can sustain them better. This turned out to be entirely false. I can spread the spores more easily with enemies not dropping like flies, but by the time I've spread them any meaningful distance, they've started to kill my targets en masse, leading to the same issue of now having to hunt and recast a decaying spores, or trying to spam Miasma and Lash to try to desperately hit targets with spores to try and spread them further.

 

In conclusion...

Saryn's been made into a half-functioning frame. The improvements to Toxic Lash and Miasma are very welcome, Molt is still useless as ever (outside of Regen Molt, which you don't use as a decoy, you hide it in a closet). Spores has been rendered virtually unusable compared to before the rework outside of a very specific, very niche build for a specific level threshold of enemies. This is completely unacceptable in a game with scaling enemies that range from comically easy to overcome to mind-blowing-ly tough to kill.

On top of this, Saryn's ability descriptions completely omit some of the functionalities of those abilities, which is part of why it was claimed this rework was "needed" in the first place. Molt doesn't elaborate that it absorbs enemy attacks at all, and Spores reads: "Spread spores to nearby enemies by destroying them or killing their host." without mentioning the caveat that the spores themselves can't do the killing besides the very first enemy you spore. Miasma doesn't mention enemies under its effect spread spores when they die from any source.

Prior to this rework, I could use spores as constant team damage and viral-status support, escalated as needed by properly "farming" them with carefully modded weapons. I took advantage of the synergy Spores had with scaling damage based on the interactions between them and Toxin procs, and used Toxic Lash as a means to recover my energy, augment my spores, and spread my spores. Back then, I only really used Molt when I used it's syndicate mod, and Miasma was a panic button for a quick stun to get out of harm's way. Now, I'm bashing my head up against the wall trying to figure out how to have my once sustainable damage over time BE sustainable for more than the immediate wave of enemies present. While also having the energy to use my abilities in a manner than supports my damn team, without being required to use specific schools and mods to generate that energy or requiring a teammate to be an energy granting machine.

 

 

[Shidonia]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WhiteWolfMoon said:

@[DE]Pablo

Alright, I have had the opportunity to try out this reworked rework now that it's on PS4.

The Good:

Better armor, better survivability. Always welcome.

Toxic Lash's appliance to all my equipped weapons is fantastic. The overall buff lets me build without needing to include Toxic mods, as I can just apply it as needed with a fairly long lasting ability. Doubling on melee is excellent.

Miasma's functional stunning over a large area is sublime. Going high duration makes it even better.

The Bad:

Molt is still entirely useless to me. It's aggro-pull on enemies is weaker than an unseen chihuahua going ballistic and making everyone jump. It's absolutely pitiful base health makes it's new bullet absorb mechanic make it last...exactly as long as enemies actually bothered to shoot it while it was building health, IF they even bother instead of riddling me into swiss cheese. The speed boost is a really bad gimmick, easily replicated with the pre-rework pair of bullet jumps. Spore turreting is obviously dead, which is the only intelligent thing done here.

 SPORES

I. Hate. Everything. Using the high range that is requisite to get the most out of Spores, I've attempted to use a + strength/+ duration build/- efficiency build, and it just eats up the initial starting target like candy. And then the enemies in that first victim's spread range. And then promptly dies out. I can TRY to use Toxic Lash to tag the secondary victims with a single bullet before they die, but then ensues a mad scramble that's more fruitless than not to try and continue to shoot spored targets faster than the spores kill them. Or attempt to spam Miasma, in which case now I would HAVE to only run with an Energizing Dash Zenurik focus and Energy Siphon to TRY and maintain my energy to continue using her abilities.

I've ALSO tried a - strength/+ duration/+efficiency build, figuring that if the spores build slower, I can sustain them better. This turned out to be entirely false. I can spread the spores more easily with enemies not dropping like flies, but by the time I've spread them any meaningful distance, they've started to kill my targets en masse, leading to the same issue of now having to hunt and recast a decaying spores, or trying to spam Miasma and Lash to try to desperately hit targets with spores to try and spread them further.

 

In conclusion...

Saryn's been made into a half-functioning frame. The improvements to Toxic Lash and Miasma are very welcome, Molt is still useless as ever (outside of Regen Molt, which you don't use as a decoy, you hide it in a closet). Spores has been rendered virtually unusable compared to before the rework outside of a very specific, very niche build for a specific level threshold of enemies. This is completely unacceptable in a game with scaling enemies that range from comically easy to overcome to mind-blowing-ly tough to kill.

On top of this, Saryn's ability descriptions completely omit some of the functionalities of those abilities, which is part of why it was claimed this rework was "needed" in the first place. Molt doesn't elaborate that it absorbs enemy attacks at all, and Spores reads: "Spread spores to nearby enemies by destroying them or killing their host." without mentioning the caveat that the spores themselves can't do the killing besides the very first enemy you spore. Miasma doesn't mention enemies under its effect spread spores when they die from any source.

Prior to this rework, I could use spores as constant team damage and viral-status support, escalated as needed by properly "farming" them with carefully modded weapons. I took advantage of the synergy Spores had with scaling damage based on the interactions between them and Toxin procs, and used Toxic Lash as a means to recover my energy, augment my spores, and spread my spores. Back then, I only really used Molt when I used it's syndicate mod, and Miasma was a panic button for a quick stun to get out of harm's way. Now, I'm bashing my head up against the wall trying to figure out how to have my once sustainable damage over time BE sustainable for more than the immediate wave of enemies present. While also having the energy to use my abilities in a manner than supports my damn team, without being required to use specific schools and mods to generate that energy or requiring a teammate to be an energy granting machine.

 

 

Baby I know you just received the update but we were screaming and crying and some of us were dead we were feeding on each other's body you guys are like a tribe which came from east and asking us what the hell happened here. Well yes some men came and slaughtered us but its meaningless now as we are lost souls and Saryn goddess of poison is now a housewife who cleans off the dust of her spores from the enemies. She is dead she is dead and she is dead god protect us these will be my last words look after this kid his name is Gambino and he will show you the way to the new world

Edited June 6, 2018 by Shidonia