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Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

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6 minutes ago, LynndorTruffles said:

Let her still spam 1 please. Not being able to cast on Molt is whatever. But blowing up the spores manually is useless. 

thats literally the point of these changes, they dont want you to spam 1 on your molt and farm easy like that. they want you to spread your single cast , then blow it up for a burst.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

well, from what I just read, it sounds like Saryn is getting one hell of a buff. infinite scaling Spores? even more powerful Molt with movement speed, Toxic lash that affects all weapons and Viral Miasma? dear god YES to every one of them! Saryn was already arguably the strongest of the base element frames, if DE go ahead with this rework as is, she'll be awesome!

That's exactly why I made this. She is TOO good with this rework. This build is using only one ability with 100% status chance to make things very easy, but balanced. After her rework it will be 3 abilities with guaranteed status procs. No other warframe in game can make even close to that claim.

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honestly, the rework just sounds like a huge buff, to an already stronk frame no less. I'm OK with this, I love using Saryn and will probably enjoy her even more if this rework goes ahead.

DE, please don't bottle it on the infinite scaling thing: I get you're apprehensive about giving players that much power, but let's face it, even if you pull it away, we'll find a way to cheese. it's just in our nature. hopefully this will pave the way for other frames to receive a similar treatment. in fact, I think many other Warframes with lacklustre first abilities such as Volt and Ember could really benefit from a form of infinite scaling too. turn those basic cast abilities into something that actively scales, and maybe players will start using them rather than just saving energy for ults and more useful powers.

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The whole babysitting your spores just sounds like a bother. Wouldn't be so bad if you could cast them on multiple enemies instead of detonating them are resetting your spore stack. 

The whole restart from zero, restart from zero, restart from zero, restart from zero, restart from zero aspect of the change just sound supremely unappealing. Especially on any mission type where there is a pause (read: forced reset) between waves.

Edited by Oreades
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10 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I like this idea. But the base damage would need to be reduced to compensate for how powerful this would be. A well cast spore in the new build will wreck havoc for a long time

You do have to crase it around and lose the power mods to keep up duration, but yes, simply slapping on a buff to a move that is already potentially very powerful would be a "very" silly thing to do.

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I'm looking forward to this. I used Saryn P a lot once especially when nuking was a thing but haven't used her for a long time now. 

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4 minutes ago, Thep10xer said:

thats literally the point of these changes, they dont want you to spam 1 on your molt and farm easy like that. they want you to spread your single cast , then blow it up for a burst.

They don't want people to do the Hydron strat of spamming it on your Molt. Just remove that. It unnecessarily makes Spores harder to use if you can only cast one and have to spread that one out. It potentially slows her down so much. 

Edited by LynndorTruffles
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4 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Now that my excited has calmed down a little, I foresee a few issues.

Toxic lash's blocking element still feels unnecessary, would suggest changing it to damage reduction while she has a melee equipped to differentiate when she's gunning or closing in for the kill and doesn't have to choose which half of the ability to use. 

Secondly miasma feels even less important as an 'ultimate' compared to the new spores but its headed in a nice direction. Potentially allow it to CC in a more reliable way rather than the soft 'stagger' she currently has since it differs based on enemy animation types. 

 

Agree on the Toxic Lash suggested dmg reduction with melee equiped..

Overall after just watching devstream these changes could probably be good but remaining cautious about them...

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There is one problem I foresee with recasting spores detonating existing ones, some map tiles are way too large to wait for spores to spread effectively. If i cast it at one side, i can't cast it at the other without the spores resetting. 

Edited by Finedaible
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As interesting as this is. I liked Sayrn as the Viral & Toxin queen. All this change really does is make her great against Grineer. Well dmg does increase the more spores are active & now possibly have infinite duration so maybe the dmg potential could still be great against corpus.

then again. I’ve been wanting a frame that has corrosive powers to strictly be great at stripping armor and Sayrn revisited (again) could potentially be a great step

 

(just fyi. I had absolutely no problem with Toxic Lash being strictly to melee. It felt worthwhile but atleast it’s double dmg on melee

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Oh snap when I read Spores lost Viral I was worried, but reading about Miasma makes me super excited about all of these changes!

Edited by myuushii

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2 minutes ago, Inspector said:

She is TOO good with this rework.

no such thing as too good, only good enough for X level of enemies. besides, there are enemies in the game which have some resistance to Viral and Corrosive, she'll kill everything sure, just not instantly, and that's perfectly fine.

let DE release her and we'll see what happens. they can always tone her down a little bit if she starts nuking inadvertently.

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4 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

I said it before and I'll say it again.
If the ability is going to stay named as Miasma, it needs to actually be a cloud of Miasma that lingers.
Then you wouldn't need to swap the procs, even though I don't understand the reasoning in the first place.
If not then the ability needs to be renamed.
As a side-note, there's no need to fear Infinite damage scaling.
It's technically already in the game, and enemies have infinitely scaling EHP to counteract it after all.

Posting this after the changes were shown in action.
Wanted to assert again that my thoughts remain the same.

Also to add that Miasma's base range is too low if you plan on (still) not making it into a lingering cloud.
Spore's damage and scaling ramp up look good, hopefully it's not nerfed pre-emptively.

Molt still seems useless without its augment, as it doesn't force enemy aggro to it.
Making it a weak escape tool still even with the speed boost, Reb almost died multiple times in a simple Mot run.
Maybe have popped Spores heal Saryn a bit? Just a suggestion. 
Since currently you're trying to make her a tank caster more clearly, but her only way to heal is through an augment.
 

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5 minutes ago, Finedaible said:

There is one problem I foresee with recasting spores detonating existing ones, some map tiles are way too large to wait for spores to spread effectively. If i cast it at one side, i can't cats it at the otrher without the spores resetting. 

I guess I can see the problem with that but if the ability keeps its infinite duration then It shouldn’t be a problem. I guess the idea is to press It once in a crowd and having no need to activate It again.

Edited by (XB1)Cash201293

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il y a 6 minutes, Thep10xer a dit :

instead of instant half health, they will be stripped of armour over time, and armour was her biggest scaling weakness. But depending on how fast the new spores scale, the damage could be ass

Armor wasnt never the problem she had .. Ask that to all endurance runners streamers and they will all say it is a straight nerf to Spore .. (Viral is king in ultra endgame) because they just strip all armor with CP or different combination... Even for Elite Onslaught coordinated team this is a straight nerf.. because Cutting HP to bullet sponge is still the best way to deal with them

And Corrosive has no use against corpus or Infested .. But yeah.. They are gonna make her an anti Grineer Corrupted compared to an anti-all

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I don't know why you are removing synergy in an effort to make saryn more interesting to play. Obviously standing in one spot and spamming 1 on molt isn't very dynamic but completely removing the interactions between spores, molt, and lash just eliminates an entire dimension of her gameplay that was what made the frame fun. Now instead of having a dynamic combo of abilities you may be making saryn's gameplay require more work but you are also eliminating power synergy and making her more one dimensional. Spores is now just a cast it and forget it ability where you will mod range and hope to actually cast it as little as possible because you want it to scale up. Casting it again to detonate the spores creates a situation where you won't actually want to use the power because you would reset your scaling. 

 Molt turns into a standard decoy ability with no synergy with any other power. Basically it becomes boring compared to what it is now. Please figure out a way to maintain molt synergy with spores or toxic lash. Maybe be able to cast spores on molt so that when molt detonates it spreads spores to any enemy in the radius. Hitting molt with toxic lash could detonate the molt early or increase the range of the aoe/spores. Removing synergy is just going to completely ruin the fun of playing Saryn for me. 

The toxic lash and miasma changes both seem positive but taking out all of the dynamic interactions between saryn's powers just to nerf the spore spam seems shortsighted. 

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With around 1000 hours only playing Saryn I can say I'm very very worried about spores and how you can "detonate them", I need to keep spores active to keep their DPS to be decent and if every time I use the ability it resets then that seems really bad not to mention I want KPS meaning me and my team will kill anything even if its the only enemy to host my spores and then they die and I loose the stacked up damage, I really don't think this is going to work very well, the point of Saryn is to spread the plague across the galaxy, I don't like how you're making her main ability ether very hard to use or not very useful with the damage always being reset and it wont ever be able to scale when everything is already dead, so look at that please all the other changes I'm very happy with I like how her 4th is now viral and her spores are now corrosive. 

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No.

Don't you dare switch damage types on her 1st and 4th!

2 years of REAL OBSERVATION would have showed you that that isn't and never should have been a necessary change!

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Its not a full rework so much as it is the touch up shes needed since the first rework. Spore changes have the potential to be a bit overkill but we'll see.

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Wow, interesting changes. However, I feel that spores MUST have to ability to propagate to other enemies within its effective range. I feel its something that should remain as core to the warframe. Personally, I think it should remain as a Viral damage type, but that's not a big issue for me. I really like the idea of recasting popping all active spores.

As for the infinite scaling and infinite duration, that is scary, especially since we're dealing with corrosive damage, and I don't have much great feedback on that. If you manage your spores well enough now, they already do have pseudo infinite duration. I'm trying to pull a "lore" reason out of my head for why spores should have the damage increased before or after they spread to a new host. If its before, then I think the spore's damage should be considered as if each spore is attempting to optimize killing that target, and have a damage scaling similar to how Hydroid's undertow works. If its after, its kinda like how the spore is optimizing itself to kill the lifeforms in the surrounding area after each kill. It all depends on how you want to look at it

All in all, looking forward to it

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After watching it showcased by DE Rebecca and DE Pablo, I can honestly say I'm looking forward to these changes now. 

image.gif?w=600&c=1

 

Edited by (XB1)RDeschain82

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2 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

Armor wasnt never the problem she had .. Ask that to all endurance runners streamers and they will all say it is a straight nerf to Spore .. (Viral is king in ultra endgame) because they just strip all armor with CP or different combination... Even for Elite Onslaught coordinated team this is a straight nerf.. because Cutting HP to bullet sponge is still the best way to deal with them

And Corrosive has no use against corpus or Infested .. But yeah.. They are gonna make her an anti Grineer Corrupted compared to an anti-all

I kinda don’t like corrosive replacing viral. Something about spreading Viral was so satisfiying. But corrosive do have some use against infested but only against the heavier units. But I rather spread viral against infested instead of corrosive. 

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4 hours ago, Levanthan said:

From this dev workshop's description, I take it that Miasma not ever proccing corrosive was a long standing bug. That alone would've massively buffed her years ago. Triple check to make sure it now actually applies Viral procs, or else we'll end up with the same disconnect that came with her previous rework.

Her Spores also currently have 100% chance to proc viral also, not 10%. It really sounds like Saryn was very bugged and her numbers and mechanics didn't work anywhere close to intended, for good and/or bad.

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