Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[NSlayer7]

I dig the changes but of course the damage types are the biggest concern here.

Like many others have been saying, switching Spores damage from Viral to Corrosive would limit Saryn's effectiveness across the factions except those with armor.

So perhaps an ambitious change would be that her Spores did adaptive damage to the highest resistance/defense it's affecting. In other words, if Spores were on per say a Grineer Lancer, it would do Corrosive damage to the armor until it was stripped then health would be left so Spores would then do Viral damage. Likewise, on a Corpus Crewman Spores would do Magnetic damage until Shields were gone then Health would be left, so Spores would do Viral damage.

The question then would be is, what would her Miasma do? Her Miasma could do adaptive damage as well, to the extent of what Miasma should be doing; doubling if effected by Spores. These changes seem to fit more under the Virus theme, a Virus that evolves.

Like I've said before, this is ambitious. This is an idea I've had for a while even before this workshop and it seemed appropriate to be mentioned now. That's my suggestion, we'll see how things go.

 

[Zanchak]

As someone who uses spores on her molt AND still actively plays while doing so, I have to say I am disappointed that another frame is being changed for the sake of the lazy people that "set and forget". You have to remain active anyway with it's health not scaling in most cases unless you're cheesing something low. Why don't you just start temp kicking the afk players instead?

Really would prefer to see viral stay on spores too. If you are trying to make more sense of Saryn, changing those to something else really does the opposite of that.

[KokoroWish]

Glad the Molt/Spore interaction is going the way of the Dodo. That was some severely toxic play patterning that needed to die. I think the Corrosive/Viral switch between her  1 and 4 is also a great change. It always baffled me that an effect as powerful as Viral could be garaunteed procced and spread so easily. It was part of what made Molt/Spore actually work like it did. Replacing it with a garaunteed armour reduction and ramping damage should be an interesting change.

Edited May 11, 2018 by KokoroWish

[Voidwielder]

As someone who's played Saryn for a fair amount of time, this rework is rather welcoming since I never like the "molt turret" combo anyway because the addtional weapon damage from breaking spores doesn't apply on Molt (seems so to me), and killing an affected enemies spreads stronger spores (seems so to me too). Everything is fine, except you should keep Viral proc on Spore because it works well on anykind of enemies (corrosive is considerably weak on corpus, and I always use her against corpus, especially on shield augment sortie 'cause her abilities totally bypass their shield).

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

I'm not sure why Saryn fans are complaining.  This rework sounds like a huge buff.  Right now Saryn's damage doesn't scale high enough for her to kill sortie level enemies before than most teammates and weapons finish them off.  She takes a ton of micromanaging too.  The OP has a viable melee build, but if you don't want her to be just another melee dependent frame, you have to ignore one whole ability.  

This buff would give her scaling damage for spores, infinite spore duration (no need for constant recasting) the ability to detonate spores, increased status, corrosive damage to deal with armor, scaling Molt decoy, Toxic Lash for any weapon not just melee, and some smaller buffs to Miasma.  What's not to like?

[MunsuLight]

il y a 7 minutes, Cibyllae a dit :

Saryn as a component to an organized team versus Saryn as a complete warframe are two different discussions. As a component to an organized team she is becoming weaker because of the existence of CP. As a public queue frame she is becoming much stronger, and that debate will always be had on the forums for any warframe that receives changes. It exists for any game that has content which requires grouping. Viral +4CP > Corrosive + 4CP, so it is a nerf in that regard. And I think most people who have a good amount of playtime on Saryn are going to be okay with that.

Balancing for Pub is not good balancing IMO .. You could still put a %armor reduction (scaling with Power Strenght) on her 4 and Call it a day ... or make a 4 like a Cloud that Procs Corrosive and strip armor  based on duration... which is gonna be good for both Pub and semi organized team.. 

But we can disagree about it .. I still think they should maintain her 2 as Viral . and Try for her 4 to be Useful with either of the Idea I gave .. 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by MunsuLight

[Ech0L0g1c]

... they’re... viruses. They should spread Viral damage. What the #*!%. I’m sure the rest will be fine.

On a related note, please give the Tori’s gas damage. It drives me crazy, that thing is clearly spreading GAS CLOUDS

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

The only thing I’m sad to see go is the synergy that Toxic Lash has with popping Spores to get energy back. That was the only combo I used in giving Saryn some useful energy economy back whenever you popped a Spore. It’d be nice to see it returned with enhanced energy feedback based on how low your efficiency is, just like Nidus is with his Power 1.

[KokoroWish]

^^^: Going to agree. Also Saryn needs that amplified Melee damage on Lash without having to equip her augment for it. That just seems overkill.

 

4 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

Balancing for Pub is not good balancing IMO ..

 

Dude, this game is like, 95% pub players. The game will always be balanced for pub. However, the Viral/Corrosive switch is most definitely not a blalance for pub thing. The people complaining about the switch I think know exactly how powerful a garaunteed Viral proc on such an easily spreadable vector is and frankly know it can be kind of broken.

Edited May 11, 2018 by KokoroWish

[Proverbi4lToast]

I'm not a fan of the toxin procs not being transferred by spores.

[MunsuLight]

il y a 5 minutes, KokoroWish a dit :

Dude, this game is like, 95% pub players. The game will always be balanced for pub. However, the Viral/Corrosive switch is most definitely not a blalance for pub thing. The people complaining about the switch I think know exactly how powerful a garaunteed Viral proc on such an easily spreadable vector is and frankly know it can be kind of broken.

So you are just stating the fact that the switch is a nerf .. I wont even mind having no Upping damage on her 2 , if it stays viral , because of like you said "I know how much a Viral proc that spread is so powerful".. Hence the fact, i said that there is nothing that doesnt let DE put continuous corrosive proc on her 4 or -%armor reduction scalable by Strenght for Public play if people really want her to have a stripping Spell in her kit .. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by MunsuLight

[(XBOX)ENC0RE Gamer]

The changes seem really great and interesting although i do have 1 concern. The power of spores seems too much and may need to be toned down a bit.

[Ozamchist]

5 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

Saryn as a component to an organized team versus Saryn as a complete warframe are two different discussions. As a component to an organized team she is becoming weaker because of the existence of CP. As a public queue frame she is becoming much stronger, and that debate will always be had on the forums for any warframe that receives changes. It exists for any game that has content which requires grouping. Viral +4CP > Corrosive + 4CP, so it is a nerf in that regard. And I think most people who have a good amount of playtime on Saryn are going to be okay with that.

The reason spores having corrosive procs makes sense is that procing multiple times is useful with that status (with diminishing returns) you only need to proc viral once for it to be useful. procing it multiple times just refreshes its duration.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

sounds interesting, and i have long enough before this affects me on console to actually test current Saryn before this affects me (assuming it does)

[Cibyllae]

1 minute ago, MunsuLight said:

Balancing for Pub is not good balancing IMO .. You could still put a %armor reduction on her 4 and Call it a day ... or make a 4 like a Cloud that Procs Corrosive and strip armor  based on duration... which is gonna be good for both Pub and semi organized team.. 

But we can disagree about it .. I still think they should maintain her 2 as Viral . and Try for her 4 to be Useful with either of the Idea I gave .. 

 

I didn't say they were balancing for Public, I said as a public queue frame she is becoming stronger. In the video Pablo said he was merely revisiting Saryn because he wanted to.

Its not a matter of disagreeing about it, its two different discussions. I'm saying as a complete frame she is becoming better, do not mistake this as a way to allude to public queue that's not what I'm saying. I am saying her design as a whole warframe she is becoming more complete. As a component to a team she is becoming weaker, I am actually agreeing with you.

[frozeefrank]

armor buff : Great, even tho she didn't need it.
toxic lash changes : Great, even tho she didn't need it.
Molt changes : Eh... Not mentioned if you still can cast spores on it. Mov speed, great even tho she didn't need it. Molt scaling, great even tho it wasn't needed.

Spore changed from viral to corrosive and increasing the damage the longer it stays. What I actually see is the ability to reduce the hp of a whole map within seconds regardless of the faction you are fighting to a very targeted ability that will be completely useless against several enemies. Damage increase over time and x2 damage on recast is just a consolation price.

Miasma changed to viral. ??? what is the intent here ? Does it still have synergy with spores? dmg increase and status duration wasn't needed.

I read a huge nerf...

[Proverbi4lToast]

Another question I have is - is the spore damage 'global' in a sense? Like does the spore damage ramp up per enemy or are they all fixed at the value of the counter?

[Numerikuu]

6 hours ago, Touch_Fluffy_Tail said:

so now her spores will do nothing on corpus great

This. I worry what this means for her against Corpus now...

[MunsuLight]

il y a 1 minute, Cibyllae a dit :

I didn't say they were balancing for Public, I said as a public queue frame she is becoming stronger. In the video Pablo said he was merely revisiting Saryn because he wanted to.

Its not a matter of disagreeing about it, its two different discussions. I'm saying as a complete frame she is becoming better, do not mistake this as a way to allude to public queue that's not what I'm saying. I am saying her design as a whole warframe she is becoming more complete. As a component to a team she is becoming weaker, I am actually agreeing with you.

Good .. Sorry if I didnt understood the tone of your answer.. English is not my first language and understanding the "tone" of a "speech" isnt easier.. 

And On that i agree with you .. But I mostly play on organized team .. So you can understand that for me she is becoming weaker ... 

Sorry for all of that 😞

[Ozamchist]

Just now, Numerikuu said:

This. I worry what this means for her against Corpus now...

We're going to ignore the fact that toxin damage ignores shields.

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

This. I worry what this means for her against Corpus now...

Toxin bypass shields, instakill any Corpus.

[Nykerios]

4 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

This. I worry what this means for her against Corpus now...

It's not like Toxic Lash works on guns as well as melee.......

Oh wait

[Emulad0or]

7 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

• After casting [Molt], Saryn receives a movementary speed boost for a short duration.  

How much is the "speed boost" and this "short duration"? Are they affected by mods? Can we not have this? We already have Volt to mess up everybody's movement, I personaly would hate to have this "speed boost" messing up all of my movement just because I casted Molt for it's real benefits...

Edit:
On a less important note:
Spores: I understand the concern about Infinite Duration + Infinite Scaling Damage + Infinite Spread. How about we drop the Infinite Scaling Damage? With Infinite Duration and Spread, and the need Corrosive damage with the 50% status, we can keep several enemies without armor already, there is no need for an Infinite Scaling Damage. A cap on it would solve the issue of abuse, while keeping it a good ability

Edited May 11, 2018 by Emulad0or

[ScorpDK]

Intrigued. Will have to test this out when it comes.

I do hope that with new sounds, we can also expect new special effects, utilizing the new GPU particles for greatness.

[DualGrace]

32 minutes ago, Nurmetya said:

So spores duration and damage is going to be reliant on enemy density for it to be even remotely useful? Well that's good  if you only run Onslaught/Defense/Survival all day every day but makes it pretty much worthless everywhere else.  

Spores main use is to soften enemy health with Viral its useful against all factions barring Sentients, changing this to corrosive only makes it strong against Grineer, moderate against Infested and Corrupted, and worthless against Corpus. 

Spores already spread via enemy death as well as targeting them directly current methods of spread is fine leave it alone.

So its a one use cast? Casting again only pops whats there so now she can only cover one big crowd coming from one direction and not turn around to tag a second large group of enemies? This is a bad change Don't do this.

A screen meter? yay... more screen clutter. Don't do this.

Venom Dose? This should probably match spores actual damage type eh. So if its Viral, a player gets a free temporary viral damage type.

Optimization? Well since its a bit of a framerate and CPU pig by all means go ahead and optimize it.  

I have to agree with what Nurmetya said here switching spores and miasma's damage types is going to heavily nerf her ability to spread the virus, unless somewhere along the way you forgot to tell us you had also added like 5-10m of base range on miasma then the simple fact is that her main use case (being i want viral everywhere all the time on every enemy) will be turned into a hey everyone sit in this one room while i'm over in a corner smashing 4. Viral is a status that is useful against every faction and always appreciated while corrosive/armor stripping (amazing as a damage type and useful in large quantities either through many many procs or from a myriad of other sources) is already available in tons of other places, even and aura mod! 

 

TLDR: I'm uneasy about the switch of damage types on spores and miasma due to the multiple other ways we already have to strip enemies of armor and the lack of ways to spread viral which is saryn's niche now.