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[DE]Danielle

Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

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7 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:
  • After casting [Molt], Saryn receives a movementary speed boost for a short duration.  

How much is the "speed boost" and this "short duration"? Are they affected by mods? Can we not have this? We already have Volt to mess up everybody's movement, I personaly would hate to have this "speed boost" messing up all of my movement just because I casted Molt for it's real benefits...

Edit:
On a less important note:
Spores: I understand the concern about Infinite Duration + Infinite Scaling Damage + Infinite Spread. How about we drop the Infinite Scaling Damage? With Infinite Duration and Spread, and the need Corrosive damage with the 50% status, we can keep several enemies without armor already, there is no need for an Infinite Scaling Damage. A cap on it would solve the issue of abuse, while keeping it a good ability

Edited by Emulad0or

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Intrigued. Will have to test this out when it comes.

I do hope that with new sounds, we can also expect new special effects, utilizing the new GPU particles for greatness.

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32 minutes ago, Nurmetya said:

So spores duration and damage is going to be reliant on enemy density for it to be even remotely useful? Well that's good  if you only run Onslaught/Defense/Survival all day every day but makes it pretty much worthless everywhere else.  

Spores main use is to soften enemy health with Viral its useful against all factions barring Sentients, changing this to corrosive only makes it strong against Grineer, moderate against Infested and Corrupted, and worthless against Corpus. 

Spores already spread via enemy death as well as targeting them directly current methods of spread is fine leave it alone.

So its a one use cast? Casting again only pops whats there so now she can only cover one big crowd coming from one direction and not turn around to tag a second large group of enemies? This is a bad change Don't do this.

A screen meter? yay... more screen clutter. Don't do this.

Venom Dose? This should probably match spores actual damage type eh. So if its Viral, a player gets a free temporary viral damage type.

Optimization? Well since its a bit of a framerate and CPU pig by all means go ahead and optimize it.  

I have to agree with what Nurmetya said here switching spores and miasma's damage types is going to heavily nerf her ability to spread the virus, unless somewhere along the way you forgot to tell us you had also added like 5-10m of base range on miasma then the simple fact is that her main use case (being i want viral everywhere all the time on every enemy) will be turned into a hey everyone sit in this one room while i'm over in a corner smashing 4. Viral is a status that is useful against every faction and always appreciated while corrosive/armor stripping (amazing as a damage type and useful in large quantities either through many many procs or from a myriad of other sources) is already available in tons of other places, even and aura mod! 

 

TLDR: I'm uneasy about the switch of damage types on spores and miasma due to the multiple other ways we already have to strip enemies of armor and the lack of ways to spread viral which is saryn's niche now.

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I'm not a Saryn main but I'm looking forward to these changes. On the surface they seem interesting.

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54 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Erh? It gives up to 90% damage reduction. It's a really, really good ability.

Oh yeah? took her into  a team for elite onslaught and the strun the enmy wields just wipes me out causing me an uninstall and loads me into D2, I have seen other novas meet the same fate but not sure if the 1st ability was up anyway besides being defensive which falls off quick doesn't do much

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Everything is fine except the element type swap between Spores and Miasma. Unlimited time and Spreading Viral is much more useful than corrosive in higher level, as Viral is work for all faction. 

Maybe I just think using a skill with 2 seconds animation to proc a viral is kinda annoying.

P.S. the idea of 2 and 3 is great as I am a melee Saryn main, especially new 2 make Saryn more tanky.

Edited by (PS4)MaSiuChu
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18 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

How much is the "speed boost" and this "short duration"? Are they affected by mods? Can we not have this? We already have Volt to mess up everybody's movement, I personaly would hate to have this "speed boost" messing up all of my movement just because I casted Molt for it's real benefits...

Edit:
On a less important note:
Spores: I understand the concern about Infinite Duration + Infinite Scaling Damage + Infinite Spread. How about we drop the Infinite Scaling Damage? With Infinite Duration and Spread, and the need Corrosive damage with the 50% status, we can keep several enemies without armor already, there is no need for an Infinite Scaling Damage. A cap on it would solve the issue of abuse, while keeping it a good ability

Probably just two-three seconds to get away from the molt seeing as it's supposed to draw attention and be a oh sh!t ability, also don't diss on Volt just because you can't handle him.

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Honestly, stripping ALL armor with saryn isn't as effective as having a little bit of armor while corrosion corrosive procs are ticking. Getting a 75% damage increase on 5k damage ticks is pretty insane.

Edited by Cibyllae

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Just now, lilsnowcloud said:

How do I get it owo

Have to have Warframe installed through Steam and buy the skin for $6.99 iirc

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Just now, --Q--Stryker said:

Have to have Warframe installed through Steam and buy the skin for $6.99 iirc

so if my account isn't through steam I cant get it? o<O

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I'm honestly excited. Can't wait to use this soon 🙂 thank you for the update ❤️

 

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12 minutes ago, lilsnowcloud said:

so if my account isn't through steam I cant get it? o<O

Nope, the creators/Steam get a cut of the sales so it's through Steam's client

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8 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Saryn Audio rework! 

As an added bonus, Saryn is also coming with a whole new set of sounds! This is what Jeff Hartling, Sound Designer, had to say about the changes to Saryn’s audio: 

“We are giving Saryn a “voice” when she casts (voiced by [DE]Danielle), which will add character and make her feel more connected to the abilities as you cast them. We really amped up the “poison” aspect of her sounds so that she feels more deadly in combat. In addition, we’ve remastered all of her sounds to have increased clarity and focus.” 

No. For the love of all things bright and beautiful in this world and beyond, no. I already had serious problems with Harrows' quest with hallucinations and the voices.If she's going to have a voice, it had damn well better be similar to Valkyr's in that it's LOUD and EASILY DISTINGUISHABLE from everything else and it SHOULD NOT be even remotely close to ANYTHING resembling a whisper. The last thing I and a lot of other people need is hearing something that sounds like it's actually in our head that doesn't belong there.

@[DE]Danielle

 

 

Edited by MrBolodenka

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Really looking forward to trying these changes.

also... HI AGAIN PABLO!!!! awesome to see Pablo again. 

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My Saryn playstyle is specifically for spreading status. I don't rely on Saryn to nuke areas and I pretty much use all 4 of her abilities evenly. I am happy with Saryn at the moment, but I understand her mechanics are not intuitive. Here is my feedback:

General Change

  • Very much welcome the increase in armor for better survivability

Spores

  • Being Corrosive is definitely more beneficial than Viral in terms of number of status ticks per use, but the Corrosive status only be beneficial against one faction (Grineer). Other factions don't have enough armor to be relevant. The original Viral status would be beneficial against all factions since they all have health.
  • Curious to see how spreading spores works, whether it is spread on death plus manual popping or only spread on death.
  • The detonating all spores is a nice option, but let us still be able to recast it. My reasoning is the old mechanic lets us create several hotspots that can be spread from. If we can't recast while spore is still active, we're limited to only creating one hotspot.
  • I am hoping Spores still maintains its ability to also spreading Toxin status (and hopefully also Viral from Miasma with the changes) when popped.

Molt

  • Nice buff. The Iron Skin functionality definitely helps. Wondering if this will eventually get to Loki's Decoy for consistency.
  • Hope Molt can still be recast to detonate and spawn an new one.
  • As mentioned in Spores, hope Toxin can still be spread around with Spores.

Toxic Lash

  • Toxin status on all weapons is a nice touch to spread more status. A bit concerned on how OP this might be. It might be abused since toxin stacks and ignores shields, although it doesn't bypass armor. If this guarantees toxin procs and is calculated normally, it could be too strong. I'm specifically thinking of ticks from sniper shots and such.
  • I would REALLY like to keep to 2 energy gain on popping spores with Toxic Lash melee. I think it is a skilled way to maintain your energy pool. Use some energy to try and make that energy back before the time runs out. It would give her self-sustainability if you use it properly. I do understand it isn't exactly an intuitive mechanic, but I would like it to stay nonetheless.
    • Alternative could be maybe standing nearby when a spore is popped could give 1 energy or something like being empowered from breathing in the toxic fumes.

Miasma

  • Damage increase from toxin/viral to Spores would definitely be more natural and loosen the conditions a bit.
  • As mentioned in Spores, hope Viral could somehow be spread around with Spores.

Audio rework

  • My initial reaction is NO. I don't want to hear a voice shouting the same thing over and over again. At least give the option to disable it. This will definitely need to be experienced to understand how it changes the experience.
Edited by DeathshotSE
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Just a thought,

So far 2 and 3 are really good. Idk about 1 not being viral anymore but to make 1 and 4 very synergistic I propose any of these to add more freedom

Miasma should be a thin gas that spreads to a certain range. And whenever an enemy has spores on them, the aoe explosion adds a viral proc causing a chain either its an automatic explosion when it reacts with the gas (at least make it faintly visible), or clicking 1 again causes a chain reaction from the closest to farthest adding a viral proc to anyone effected in a 3m radius (does not stack, allowing for thr already weakened dmg not to be an issue. Idk if the second would work really well so maybe an auto explosion would be better). Also with the actual miasma, allow for reacts to cause a stun. Stun should be increased in duration a bit more or less (still having a base stun of maybe 5 seconds), while the actual viral proc scales with ability duration mods (allowing possibly for builds for more cc with neg duration, and more debuff with pos duration). Also (idk if this is too much) but closer to the epicentre the duration of the stun should be at 5, while farther out it lessens a little in time but maybe strengthens with the range of the aoe viral proc. All these ideas dont need to be used of course cuz that would just be a loaded up. But i sould like the idea of having a cc and debuff as an ult ability that can be controlled in builds, allowing for more freedom per play style. Thats all. Keep the good work

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8 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

*Developer Note: We are particularly apprehensive about Spores behaving this way since we’ve paired it with an already experimental mechanic  - it is the most likely portion of the rework to be highly reconsidered before launch.   

I feel like keeping the mechanic of easy spore spreading is more important than any numbers.

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7 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno!

Can you please elaborate on your point here? We would love to know what about the change to this part of "Spores" has you thinking this way 🙂

Cmon, we all know it's a murder. Even ur programer say this.

Also, i see her Mot action... Spores doesn't spread at all. And you even can't recast it. Rebecca totally out of oxigen in 5 mins. Great performance.

P.S I love new definition of "scaling". You are do exactly same damage, but it slowly grows in time.

P.P.S. ALSO, can i remind you about Mag. You fix her Ult to give better CC. And now Saryn simply gives imun to every alive mob, if he survive after her ult. Amaizing.

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As a two years old Saryn Main, I’m half happy but half worry about the changes.

Spores:

1. Damage type change to corrosive is great, which make her less depend on corrosive projection in high Lv missions. But this means it is technically less useful against corpus while also unable to sever as a debuffer. To be honest, even though the damage scaling is insane, it has limitations when facing high lv enemies. But the utility such as viral proc is never usless........ I remember Pablo said when her new spore detonate it has a 30% chance to proc viral which scale with strength, is this confirmed since it’s not mentioned here?

2. Considering how her spores works now, there is no doubt to build her for high strength and as much range as possible. Based on my past experience, If you build her for 145 range or below, the spore spreading is unreliable and you need to actively put in more spores on new enemies. This also happens when you have max range but the map is big enough. Honestly I find this make playing becomes more interactive and require concentration or observation. But if you cannot cast spores on new enemies, you are forced to have large range.

I can already see that you spored enemy is at the other side and you are struggling in should I detonate the spore to put it one new enemies in front of you.

In conclusion, this would force player to build her for large range and eliminate some modding potential since right now 145 range is already enough for Saryn if you play actively but not mindlessly camping.

 I suggest you replace the press 1 to detonate spore by allow it to recast on Molt again. The old 2-1 combo was severed as an easy way to spread spores since you can leave it at there. But now we can make it an additional way to spread the spores that does not depends on enemy location. Make spore spreading to new enemies easier.

 

Toxin Lash:

1. The 2 energy restore on hit is needed! BUT LIMIT IT TO MELEE STRIKE. Otherwise you are just pushing more players to use zenurik and Saryn will no longer able to use channeling melee all the time or go through an energy sortie with no issue.

2. I am fine with the blocking enhancement since I play Saryn mostly for CQC. But if you like to consider making it a damage resistance when using melee weapons or overall, it could be even better.......I personally fine with you change this or not, I love using block when running into enemies, makes me feel the playing is more interactive.

 

Miasma:

Great changes, but feels more useless besides act as an emergency CC. Also since it detonate the spores, and now you want spore to not detonate and scaling more, there is even less demanding to use this ability.

However, it’s not a big issue for melee Saryn since the damage comes from weapon toxin lash and the ability to spread toxin dot among enemies.

 

Please remember dear DE, not all Saryn player are mindless camper who spam 2-1111111. The team synergy her spore has with ivara+gas zenistar, the viral proc which allow non-armored enemies to be debuffed and killed by burst damage weapon, the melee potential she has are all important to be considered.

Thanks for your patience, may you have a good day.

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7 hours ago, Harper said:

Whatever you decide to do, do not, I repeat... DO NOT change spore's and miasma's damage type around. Corrosive Projection already exists and is far more effective than just using corrosive spores. Viral at least gives spores the ability to be versatile against all factions. Grineer at high levels have always been fought with bringing Corrosive Projection into the aura slot. Making Spores into corrosive proc stacking will not be a change for the better against any faction since Viral already helps with working against all factions by halving the health. If you want Miasma to be the corrosive proc stacking ability, just change Miasma to deal the damage more frequently in smaller numbers rather than a few ticks with larger numbers. More corrosive procs on Miasma would be a much better decision than ruining Spores.

 

When the armor system is broken, frames shouldn't be balanced around 4CP. If any, it won't end well for Saryn when DE does get around to fixing armor.

Edited by NaoEthelia
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